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Re: [USAICO] CX ages

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  • Adam Hodges Myerson
    At the CSI last year, Louise Lalonde addressed this simply by having the 10-16 year olds lined up behind the 17-18, and let them race together.
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 20, 2005
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      At the CSI last year, Louise Lalonde addressed this simply by having the
      10-16 year olds lined up behind the 17-18, and let them race together.


      on 9/20/05 11:35 AM, Farrell, Shawn at sfarrell@... wrote:

      >
      >
      > Shawn,
      >
      > It is my understanding that we are not requiring the Juniors to hold UCI
      > licenses at our races. That obviously would preclude them from getting
      > UCI points.
      >
      >
      >
      > I see no relationship between the two. We do not force a junior to buy a
      > $150 international license with a couple of months left in the season,
      > but that does not mean they cannot ride the UCI event. If they are in
      > the correct ages (2006 racing age of 17 or 18) then the fact that they
      > have a current domestic license is of no consequence. Logistically, all
      > we need to do is create and record their UCI code, which a competent
      > registration person or official can do knowing only their birthday.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Our races are permited under the USCF and it's also my understanding
      > that any Junior 18 and under is allowed to race in a Junior race under
      > USCF rules. Is this true? If so, it seems that any younger Junior just
      > would not be giving a UCI code even if they had a UCI license.
      >
      >
      >
      > Our rules are no different than the UCI's when it comes to ages. The
      > organizer is free to have non-UCI races for whatever age groups he
      > wants. The riders ages are calculated the same way. You could have, for
      > instance, a 15-16 junior race on the USCF schedule and not be the UCI
      > race. For that matter you could have an open junior category that is
      > separate from the UCI junior race and a junior that is 18 could ride
      > both of them. That would be your business. Our only concern is that in
      > the UCI race, we have only those juniors that are true, UCI juniors,
      > i.e. 17 and 18 years old based on their 2006 racing ages.
      >
      >
      >
      > It has come to my attention that Geoff Procter is telling people that
      > Juniors whose racing age is under 17 can not race in the Grand Prix of
      > Cyclocross races. My understanding is that those races are under USCF
      > rules, and the above rules would apply. I have heard that his reason is
      > that those races are selection races for the World Championships and to
      > allow younger riders would chance the taking away of points from
      > eligible riders.
      >
      >
      >
      > It is true that for the UCI races, a rider with a racing age of less
      > than 17, (UCI code starting with 1990 or higher) would not be a junior
      > per UCI rules and is therefore not eligible to compete. I cannot speak
      > at the moment about how the selection works, but I know the GP races do
      > figure in our selection procedures.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > What about foreign riders who attend? I certainly can imagine Canadians
      > coming down for the races in Mass. They have in the past. Having
      > ineligible riders for selection has not prevented participation in many
      > selections races in the past. It's my understanding that the GP races
      > are not invitational races, and can therefore not exclude riders who fit
      > the categories.
      >
      >
      >
      > The nationality is not relevant. It is the same question/problem. Any
      > rider carrying a legitimate license is eligible to compete if he is the
      > correct age. It does not matter if the rider is Canadian or American.
      > Our rules are the same as the UCI's rules. The task is for the officials
      > and the registrars to make sure the rider is in the correct age group.
      > Now I am aware that sometimes local events in Canada do not follow those
      > UCI rules, to avoid the situation I described yesterday of the poor 17
      > year old (biological age) who should be riding in the elite race, not
      > the junior race due to the way the racing age thing works out. So, in
      > summary, we are not excluding foreign riders. We are making sure they
      > ride in the correct age category. It is best to just stick to the UCI
      > code description I sent out yesterday. All Canadian licenses will have a
      > UCI code on them. Just make sure that anyone attempting to enter the UCI
      > junior race has a UCI code of 1988 or 1989. If it is younger than that,
      > they are not eligible for a UCI race. If it is older than that, they are
      > elites, not juniors.
      >
      >
      >
      > Could you clarify this issue?
      >
      >
      >
      > I hope that clarified it. I will be on the conference call in a few.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Tom Stevens
      >
      > "Farrell, Shawn" <sfarrell@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi everyone, it is that confusing time of the year when we have
      > to think about ages of cyclists for CX. Remember that, effectively, your
      > racing age is always one year more for cyclocross. Whether you like that
      > or not is open to discussion, but at the moment our rules mirror those
      > of the UCI, both for domestic events and for UCI events.
      >
      >
      >
      > We complicate the matter by issuing licenses for 2006 starting
      > in November of 2005. Thus, here is what should happen:
      >
      >
      >
      > 1) if a rider has a 2005 license that says his racing age is 18,
      > he has been a junior all season, but he is NOT a junior for CX, he is a
      > U23 or Elite. That can really be a bummer in some cases. Take the poor
      > lad who is 17 right now. He has a birthday in December, so his racing
      > age has been 18 all season, but now he is a 17 year old (biological age)
      > elite rider for cyclocross. This is probably a good thing for masters
      > though. A bunch of 49 year olds get an early trip to the 50 year old
      > division.
      >
      >
      >
      > 2) if a rider has a 2006 license (hopefully you will not see
      > these until after November 1 :-)), you should not increment his age, as
      > that age will already be correct.
      >
      >
      >
      > Now, for those wonderful UCI results sheets, we need UCI codes
      > for everyone. Here is what we should see:
      >
      >
      >
      > Elite - USA1987 and earlier
      >
      >
      >
      > Junior - USA1988 or USA1989
      >
      >
      >
      > We should not see ANY USA1990 or later, as they are sub juniors
      > and should not be in UCI races.
      >
      >
      >
      > Now that you are all confused, carry on :-)
      >
      >
      >
      > Shawn
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS
      >
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      > ________________________________
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    • CrossSportif@aol.com
      All, Just a quick follow-up to Tom Steven s email. ... First off, thanks USAC/Shawn Farrell for his subsequent clarification. I would just underscore that
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 21, 2005
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        All,

        Just a quick follow-up to Tom Steven's email.
        In a message dated 9/20/05 9:09:21 AM, spinarts@... writes:
        It has come to my attention that Geoff Procter is telling people that Juniors whose racing age is under 17 can not race in the Grand Prix of Cyclocross races.

        First off, thanks USAC/Shawn Farrell for his subsequent clarification. I would just underscore that juniors of any age are more than welcome to race as long as they're placed in their respective categories. Whether the 17,18's (selection event) go out first followed by the younger juniors is a separate issue and one we've discussed with USGP organizers, USAC and UCI. At this writing, most of our organizers are staging stand-alone 17, 18 UCI races per the advice of USAC and UCI.

        Actually, the only response I can recall giving on this issue was with a mom asking if her son (racing age 16) could "race up" in the 17,18 category. After consulting with USAC/Shawn, I replied that no, he would have to wait another year to race that category. Certainly he is eligible to compete in the younger juniors races which are being run in conjunction with the USGP/junior world's selection races. I think excluding juniors is the last thing any of us wants; we just want them racing in the proper categories.

        One other clarification: juniors can only get UCI ranking points at the world championships. This is new from UCI as of this past January in St Wendel. The idea being to give top juniors making the jump to U-23/elite some points to help them on the start grid the ensuing fall until the first fall UCI points ranking comes out after the first World Cup. Hence, our US juniors (who finished at St Wendel Worlds) (e.g. Toby Marzot, Adam McGrath ...) who are now U-23, show up on the February ranking which should get them a gridded start position in the upcoming US UCI races.

        Hope this makes sense.
        Geoff Proctor
        Technical Director
        US Gran Prix of Cyclocross



      • Tom McDaniel
        Thanks Shawn Can you give quick example of converting a USCF Number to a UCI code. Thanks Tom McDaniel _____ From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 21, 2005
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          Thanks Shawn

           

           

          Can you give quick example of converting a USCF Number to a UCI code.

           

          Thanks

           

          Tom McDaniel

           


          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Farrell, Shawn
          Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:40 AM
          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages

           

          Juniors can just have a current annual domestic license. It will be up to the registrars and the officials to come up with their UCI codes based on their birthdays. The age groups also have to be checked carefully per my letter to y’all yesterday.

           


          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Tom McDaniel
          Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:33 AM
          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages

           

          Shawn

           

          Men and Women racing UCI require International License.

           

          What are 17 to 18 JR’s required to have this year?

           

          Tom McDaniel

           


          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Farrell, Shawn
          Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:41 PM
          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Rogers, Justin; Keurulainen, Jennifer; ANDYTAUS@...; Kurt Sauer; bikeref.seattle@...; Payson, Kinnin; velo2453@... ; Dot Comm; Tom.Nee@...; cg; Andy McCord; Randy Shafer; CrossSportif@...
          Subject: [USAICO] CX ages

           

          Hi everyone, it is that confusing time of the year when we have to think about ages of cyclists for CX. Remember that, effectively, your racing age is always one year more for cyclocross. Whether you like that or not is open to discussion, but at the moment our rules mirror those of the UCI, both for domestic events and for UCI events.

           

          We complicate the matter by issuing licenses for 2006 starting in November of 2005. Thus, here is what should happen:

           

          1) if a rider has a 2005 license that says his racing age is 18, he has been a junior all season, but he is NOT a junior for CX, he is a U23 or Elite. That can really be a bummer in some cases. Take the poor lad who is 17 right now. He has a birthday in December, so his racing age has been 18 all season, but now he is a 17 year old (biological age) elite rider for cyclocross. This is probably a good thing for masters though. A bunch of 49 year olds get an early trip to the 50 year old division.

           

          2) if a rider has a 2006 license (hopefully you will not see these until after November 1 J), you should not increment his age, as that age will already be correct.

           

          Now, for those wonderful UCI results sheets, we need UCI codes for everyone. Here is what we should see:

           

          Elite – USA1987 and earlier

           

          Junior – USA1988 or USA1989

           

          We should not see ANY USA1990 or later, as they are sub juniors and should not be in UCI races.

           

          Now that you are all confused, carry on J

           

          Shawn

           

        • Farrell, Shawn
          I was born on January 24, 1957 and I am a US citizen. Therefore, my UCI code is USA19570124 For any UCI code, it is (3 letter country code)(YYYY)(MM)(DD)
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 21, 2005
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            I was born on January 24, 1957 and I am a US citizen. Therefore, my UCI code is

             

            USA19570124

             

            For any UCI code, it is (3 letter country code)(YYYY)(MM)(DD)

             


            From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Tom McDaniel
            Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:56 AM
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages

             

            Thanks Shawn

             

             

            Can you give quick example of converting a USCF Number to a UCI code.

             

            Thanks

             

            Tom McDaniel

             


            From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Farrell, Shawn
            Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:40 AM
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages

             

            Juniors can just have a current annual domestic license. It will be up to the registrars and the officials to come up with their UCI codes based on their birthdays. The age groups also have to be checked carefully per my letter to y’all yesterday.

             


            From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Tom McDaniel
            Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:33 AM
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages

             

            Shawn

             

            Men and Women racing UCI require International License.

             

            What are 17 to 18 JR’s required to have this year?

             

            Tom McDaniel

             


            From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Farrell, Shawn
            Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:41 PM
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Rogers, Justin; Keurulainen, Jennifer; ANDYTAUS@...; Kurt Sauer; bikeref.seattle@...; Payson, Kinnin ; velo2453@... ; Dot Comm; Tom.Nee@...; cg; Andy McCord; Randy Shafer; CrossSportif@...
            Subject: [USAICO] CX ages

             

            Hi everyone, it is that confusing time of the year when we have to think about ages of cyclists for CX. Remember that, effectively, your racing age is always one year more for cyclocross. Whether you like that or not is open to discussion, but at the moment our rules mirror those of the UCI, both for domestic events and for UCI events.

             

            We complicate the matter by issuing licenses for 2006 starting in November of 2005. Thus, here is what should happen:

             

            1) if a rider has a 2005 license that says his racing age is 18, he has been a junior all season, but he is NOT a junior for CX, he is a U23 or Elite. That can really be a bummer in some cases. Take the poor lad who is 17 right now. He has a birthday in December, so his racing age has been 18 all season, but now he is a 17 year old (biological age) elite rider for cyclocross. This is probably a good thing for masters though. A bunch of 49 year olds get an early trip to the 50 year old division.

             

            2) if a rider has a 2006 license (hopefully you will not see these until after November 1 J), you should not increment his age, as that age will already be correct.

             

            Now, for those wonderful UCI results sheets, we need UCI codes for everyone. Here is what we should see:

             

            Elite – USA1987 and earlier

             

            Junior – USA1988 or USA1989

             

            We should not see ANY USA1990 or later, as they are sub juniors and should not be in UCI races.

             

            Now that you are all confused, carry on J

             

            Shawn

             

          • kjc
            Tom, The UCI Code is simply the riders three letter country abreviation, followed by their year of birth, followed by their month and day of birth. For
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 21, 2005
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              Tom,

              The UCI Code is simply the riders three letter country
              abreviation, followed by their year of birth, followed
              by their month and day of birth.

              For example, my birthday is 7-12-68 so my UCI code
              would be: USA19680712

              There is no correlation between USAC License Numbers
              and UCI Codes.

              --- Tom McDaniel <ctmcdaniel@...> wrote:

              > Thanks Shawn
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Can you give quick example of converting a USCF
              > Number to a UCI code.
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              >
              >
              > Tom McDaniel
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Farrell, Shawn
              > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:40 AM
              > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages
              >
              >
              >
              > Juniors can just have a current annual domestic
              > license. It will be up to
              > the registrars and the officials to come up with
              > their UCI codes based on
              > their birthdays. The age groups also have to be
              > checked carefully per my
              > letter to y'all yesterday.
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Tom McDaniel
              > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:33 AM
              > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [USAICO] CX ages
              >
              >
              >
              > Shawn
              >
              >
              >
              > Men and Women racing UCI require International
              > License.
              >
              >
              >
              > What are 17 to 18 JR's required to have this year?
              >
              >
              >
              > Tom McDaniel
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Farrell, Shawn
              > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 4:41 PM
              > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              > Cc: Rogers, Justin; Keurulainen, Jennifer;
              > ANDYTAUS@...; Kurt Sauer;
              > bikeref.seattle@...; Payson, Kinnin;
              > velo2453@...; Dot Comm;
              > Tom.Nee@...; cg; Andy McCord; Randy Shafer;
              > CrossSportif@...
              > Subject: [USAICO] CX ages
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi everyone, it is that confusing time of the year
              > when we have to think
              > about ages of cyclists for CX. Remember that,
              > effectively, your racing age
              > is always one year more for cyclocross. Whether you
              > like that or not is open
              > to discussion, but at the moment our rules mirror
              > those of the UCI, both for
              > domestic events and for UCI events.
              >
              >
              >
              > We complicate the matter by issuing licenses for
              > 2006 starting in November
              > of 2005. Thus, here is what should happen:
              >
              >
              >
              > 1) if a rider has a 2005 license that says his
              > racing age is 18, he has been
              > a junior all season, but he is NOT a junior for CX,
              > he is a U23 or Elite.
              > That can really be a bummer in some cases. Take the
              > poor lad who is 17 right
              > now. He has a birthday in December, so his racing
              > age has been 18 all
              > season, but now he is a 17 year old (biological age)
              > elite rider for
              > cyclocross. This is probably a good thing for
              > masters though. A bunch of 49
              > year olds get an early trip to the 50 year old
              > division.
              >
              >
              >
              > 2) if a rider has a 2006 license (hopefully you will
              > not see these until
              > after November 1 :-)), you should not increment his
              > age, as that age will
              > already be correct.
              >
              >
              >
              > Now, for those wonderful UCI results sheets, we need
              > UCI codes for everyone.
              > Here is what we should see:
              >
              >
              >
              > Elite - USA1987 and earlier
              >
              >
              >
              > Junior - USA1988 or USA1989
              >
              >
              >
              > We should not see ANY USA1990 or later, as they are
              > sub juniors and should
              > not be in UCI races.
              >
              >
              >
              > Now that you are all confused, carry on :-)
              >
              >
              >
              > Shawn
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              >
              >
              > Sports
              >
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Sports+fund+raising&w1=Sports+fund+rais
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              > _____
              >
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              >
              > * Visit your group "USAICO
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/USAICO> "
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