Re: [USAICO] Re: 2013 Cross Schedule - Let's start a discussion before Inscription opens
It seems to me that the conversation was always about October november date conflicts, based on the emails you were shooting back and forth. Which, is sort of interesting, since some of us promote races on those dates, and the courtesy of an email, phone call, voice mail, or text message would have been nice. Are we to assume since "gateway" is suggesting they can go to Nov 17-18, that I know have a new conflict instead of just the current two? Assuming I inscript races on the same day I did this year, which again, since no one bothered to even ask, is just an assumption.
Or, are we to assume that those not on your original emails, simply don't matter, or figure into the big picture?
I think we've already determined that for whatever reason in order to have a "successful" race we all have to have the same 6 guys show up and race. And the same three girls. Which is essentially ridiculous.
Adam is 100% right. If you guys really wanted to have an honest, up front, outcome inducing discussion, you would have had an honest up front discussion with all of us courtesy of the USAICO list serv. Which, currently is the best method of communication we have. Or, you can continue to have private discussions, that affect others behind their backs and make them wonder forever if they are just not one of the "cool kids", or what.
I'm also going to say that the void left by Adam is not being filled at all. This entire email exchange would effectively be proof of that point.
MylesOn Oct 26, 2012 9:53 PM, "Adam Myerson" <adam@...> wrote:
Respectfully, Brook, I do appreciate that you've been trying to take up the slack the past two seasons and bring some organization into the void.I do also agree that the World Cup limitation is definitely making things challenging for us.I will say this, though, since I stepped back from my unofficial ombudsman role, that job has not been filled. USAC and Kelli came and had a very much "we'll take it from here" attitude, and while she definitely did her best, that is not what's happened. We managed ourselves much better than we've been managed since. That's what started the infighting and lack of cooperation, in my opinion. Once we had a master, we turned on each other.I think you missed Micah, so I added him. If Micah is going to take this role on, we need a couple of things. First, we need complete and total openness. That's why the list was created, and that's why it worked for so long. I realize we are all competitors now, and that may make some of us vulnerable. In the end, I truly believe the openness will benefit us all in the end. Second, we need Micah to do the job I was doing in the past. We need a negotiator that everyone trusts, that everyone feels like they can talk to, and will work for the best interests of the whole rather than any one individual organizer. Even though I was an organizer, you guys all trusted me and essentially empowered me to do that negotiating, and you saw that it was often at my own expense. I don't want that job back, and if USAC is going to "take it from here," then we need that same level of service and commitment.If it's going to be a free market, then fine, let it be a free market, and we can all go to war. But I much preferred the social democracy we had going up until 2 seasons ago.AdamOn Oct 26, 2012, at 9:36 PM, Brook Watts wrote:Adam,I'll repeat for the group what I emailed you privately…this discussion was started by me to resolve Sept/Oct date/conflict issues. It has now drifted into a discussion about November and beyond. Not saying that's a bad thing, just simply saying there was no attempt to leave you out since you've always been the early Nov event guy.Yes, clearly we need a strong, central voice in this process. I've cc'ed Micah Rice on this so he can better grasp what the landscape of date scheduling is. Perhaps some discussion during our USAC Cross Committee meeting next Mon and Tues might open a dialogue leading to a more sane process.What you fail to mention in your narration is the manner we are all held captive by the World Cup schedule. How much simpler life was when we could have a C1 on this side of the globe on a World Cup weekend……On Oct 26, 2012, at 7:26 PM, Adam Myerson wrote:If you could all bear with me for a minute, I'd like to provide a short history lesson that starts back before some of you were involved in putting on UCI races.When the Northampton race started, it was originally 2 towns away in Amherst, on the UMass campus. 1991 is when I began. I was 19. Back then the race was always on the second weekend of November, and was originally just one day, paired with the West Hill Shop race in Putney, VT.By the end of the 90s, the race was two days and had a day of collegiate racing. That was 1999.In 2000 we went UCI, I took over what has now become the Verge Series from Tom Stevens, and we set about our 3-year plan of having every Verge race be a UCI event, which we eventually achieved. In that window we became a double weekend with the Chainbiter in CT, run by Jan Bolland, which some of you may remember.Eventually, New England increased it's cooperation with the Mid-Atlantic, as their scene and the number of UCI races there continued to grow. This is also the window where I created the USAICO and the email list (the first message is from the fall of 2003), and started the annual meeting of the UCI race organizers at nationals. This is when I started sharing our information with the rest of the country, and particularly people like Jim Brown, to finally kill the stupid regional rivalries that existed before us, none better exemplified than perhaps Tom Stevens v. Dan Norton. Jim and I were the antidote to that, and the new generation.As part of that cooperation, and in order to space the events out for better flow, my race weekend moved up one weekend to the first weekend of November to accommodate Beacon the weekend before, and Highland Park the weekend following. At the same time, 4 new races popped up in CO, with the Xilinx Cup, Boulder Cup, Boulder 'Cross, and Aurora 'Cross on the last weekend of October and first weekend of November. Mitch's races in Ohio that had been the second week of October in this period, conflicting with the Rad Racing weekend in the NW, had now moved back one weekend, conflicting with Downeast in ME. All still manageable at this point, and cooperative.Eventually, as the calendar and number of races grew, we had a new conflicts. In 2007, Boulder Cup solidified on the first weekend of November, conflicting with Northampton. (And Gloucester started it's move forward on the calendar, conflicting with Ohio.) This sucked for everyone, even though the races were geographically far apart. It continued like this for a few years. Gloucester conflicting with Ohio, USGP alone on the last weekend of October, Boulder and Noho on the first weekend of November, and the now double Beacon/HPCX the second weekend of November.And then, finally, in 2010, with a lot of work, we "fixed it" as best we could. Gloucester moved up another weekend, and I moved back, negotiating for Beacon and Highland Park to swap weekends with me. They had no plans to make their races any bigger than they were, and it seemed like a much smaller conflict with Boulder than Northampton was. Further, we were now at Look Park, where there are extensive Halloween and Christmas activities. The first weekend of November meant we were after the Halloween business was over (as well as soccer), but before they put out the Christmas gear the next week. So, better for the venue, better for the schedule, and back to our traditional date. That left the USGP the next weekend in NJ, and we had a nice rhythm to schedule. Perfect. Except for one thing. We had had a new race in Providence that moved into Gloucester's old spot, which, while great for the northeast schedule, still left Ohio with a conflict.In this growth period, as most of you know, I spent a lot of time and energy helping other races learn the ropes of UCI race organization, and a lot of time on the phone and email negotiating conflicts and assembling a cooperative calendar. In this window, we had a boom. USAC left us alone. The road NRC organizers were jealous of us. We were an example of how, when people put the sport ahead of their own interests, we could be productive and respectful of each other. Partners rather than competitors. Even in this interview:Mitch says: "I called up the Michigan UCI promoter, Robert Linden, asked him who to talk to about getting this UCI-sanctioning, and he put me in touch with Adam Myerson. Adam educated me about the basic requirements and then walked me through the process getting our event on the calendar."Obviously, all along, Mitch was faced with some of the same challenges I was. He had conflicts with other races around the country for the most, if not all of the years he organized his event, whether it was Seattle or or Gloucester, or eventually Providence. The conflict with Providence obviously wasn't great, and I couldn't find a solution for it. And while I enjoyed one year of no conflicts between Boulder and Northampton, the Canadian national championships ended up on my date. Being in New England, that actually costs me quite a lot of riders, and all the best central and eastern Canadian elites.Last year, though, last year really bummed me out. At this point, as you all know, I'd stepped back from trying to solve everyone's problems. USAC had finally engaged, and my volunteer work negotiating the calendar should no longer not only have been needed, it started to appear that it was also not wanted. USAC was going to "take it from here." And what did we end up with? Well, in 2011, we ended up with the USGP, Providence, and Ohio all fighting for the same date, on the the second weekend of October. And so what happened as a result of that? Ohio moved to the first weekend of November, in conflict with Northampton.What pissed me off about this at the time was that there was no discussion about it like there would have been in the past. No emails. No negotiation. No consensus. Just a notification that it was happening. If that wasn't the indicator that times had changed, I don't know what was. Last year was the year that showed me we were all no longer collaborators, but competitors. And so for me, that was the end of an era, and the very clear end of my time as our ombudsman and problem solver.I don't know if there was a better date for Ohio. I only know I didn't like the way it went down, and honestly, I thought after all these years of serving other organizers I deserved a little more consideration. So the fact there's a private, off-list email conversation right now between all of you, discussing dates that include my race, eh. I think that's bullshit.What you've all shown me is that not only did I work really hard to grow the sport over the past 10-15 years, I also created all my own competition in the process. And that really, really sucks. I would have liked to think I deserved slightly more than that, considering.AdamOn Oct 26, 2012, at 7:38 PM, Adam Myerson wrote:That would not work for me.Northampton is planning to continue on its traditional date, the first weekend of November, and will again request to be a C1 for one of those two days.I would really appreciate being considered in this conversation.Adam--
Adam F. Myerson
President, Cycle-Smart, Inc.: Solutions for Cycling
Organizer, Cycle-Smart International Cyclocross
President, Verge New England Cyclocross SeriesCaptain, Manager, Team SmartStop p/b Mountain Khakis
32 Ditson St., #5
Dorchester, MA 02122
(413) 204-3202 Mobile
(512) 681-7043 Fax
http://cycle-smart.comFrom: Dorothy Wong <wongwongway@...>
Date: October 24, 2012, 10:17:02 PM EDT
To: Mitch Graham <mitch_biowheels@...>
Cc: Joan Hanscom <joanhan@...>, BrookWatts <brook@...>, Richard Fries <richard_fries@...>, Paul Boudreau <paullyb@...>, Terry Buchanan <terry@...>, Mike Weiss <mike@...>, Dorothy Wong <dot@...>, AaronBouplon <boups@...>, Chris Grealish <bcourier@...>, Corey Green <corey@...>
Subject: Re: 2013 Cross Schedule - Let's start a discussion before Inscription opensThat could work for us.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mitch Graham <mitch_biowheels@...> wrote:What is the possibility of doing Spooky Oct 26/27, Cincy on Nov 2/3, Louisville on Nov 9/10, and Gateway on Nov 16/17?Mitch Graham - Bio Wheels Workshop(513) 861-2453 Work(513) 476-6805 Mobile6810 Miami AveCincinnati, Ohio45243
From: Dorothy Wong <wongwongway@...>
To: Joan Hanscom <joanhan@...>; Brook Watts <brook@...>; Richard Fries <richard_fries@...>; Paul Boudreau <paullyb@...>; Terry Buchanan <terry@...>; Mike Weiss <mike@...>; Dorothy Wong <dot@...>; Aaron Bouplon <boups@...>; Chris Grealish <bcourier@...>; Mitch Graham <mitch_biowheels@...>; Corey Green <corey@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: 2013 Cross Schedule - Let's start a discussion before Inscription opens
All,Spooky Cross cannot happen in November and is always the 3rd weekend in October.CXLA is December the weekend before the USGP works nicely for us and the racers who want to then zoom up to Oregon.Dot : )On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Joan Hanscom <joanhan@...> wrote:Hi Brook,I've reviewed the 8 inscription forms forwarded to me by the UCI. As I indicted in my previous email we would be inscribing for the same numbered weekends we were on this year. Per the UCI, that would see us racing on:Sept 21 /22 - MadisonOct 12/13 - Fort CollinsNov 9, 10 - Louisville - which poses a conflict with Mitch and we should work this out.Dec 7/8 - Bend ORSince all of these races were on the calender in 2012 I am curious how Mitch and I got shifted a weekend back?