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Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

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  • Brook Watts
    Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it s time to formalize the USAICO
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 7, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  

      We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

      Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

      The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

      I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

      Brook Watts
      303-684-9170 Phone
      303-907-3133 Cell
      323-329-9315 Fax




      Begin forwarded message:

      From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
      Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
      Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

      Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

      In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

      Here's a few items we need to face:

      -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

      -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

      -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

      -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

      -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

      -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


      Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

      Thoughts?  Next steps?


      Brook Watts
      brook.watts@...
      303-684-9170 Phone
      303-907-3133 Cell
      Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011







    • Bruce Fina
      Dear Brook, All I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Brook, All

        I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

        I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

        Bruce


        From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
        Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

         

        Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  


        We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

        Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

        The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

        I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

        Brook Watts
        303-684-9170 Phone
        303-907-3133 Cell
        323-329-9315 Fax




        Begin forwarded message:

        From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
        Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
        Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

        Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

        In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

        Here's a few items we need to face:

        -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

        -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

        -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

        -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

        -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

        -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


        Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

        Thoughts?  Next steps?


        Brook Watts
        brook.watts@...
        303-684-9170 Phone
        303-907-3133 Cell
        Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011








      • Brook Watts
        Thanks for the response Bruce. To date you re the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO. At the risk of generating a firestorm I had
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for the response Bruce.  

          To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.  

          At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc.  but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.  

          We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.  

          We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.

          We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.

          FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel.  I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting.  The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it.  Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend.  Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.



          Brook Watts
          303-684-9170 Phone
          303-907-3133 Cell
          323-329-9315 Fax




          On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:

           

          Dear Brook, All

          I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

          I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

          Bruce


          From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
          Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

           

          Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  


          We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

          Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

          The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

          I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

          Brook Watts
          303-684-9170 Phone
          303-907-3133 Cell
          323-329-9315 Fax




          Begin forwarded message:

          From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
          Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
          Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

          Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

          In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

          Here's a few items we need to face:

          -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

          -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

          -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

          -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

          -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

          -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


          Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

          Thoughts?  Next steps?


          Brook Watts
          brook.watts@...
          303-684-9170 Phone
          303-907-3133 Cell
          Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011










        • Tom McDaniel
          All- I m all for taking the current list private and limited to important races ( No I can not define exactly what a important cross race is) but I think it is
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
          • 0 Attachment

            All-

             

            I’m all for taking the current list private and limited to important races ( No I can not define exactly what a important cross race is) but I think it is time to pare the list down to promoters ASAP.

             

            I’m would also a back a modest fee, a web presence and some more formal structure.

             

            Who on the list is interested in being our named spokesperson.  Anyone have any nominations?

             

            Tom

             

             

             

            From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Fina
            Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 12:24 PM
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

             

             

            Dear Brook, All

             

            I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

             

            I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

             

            Bruce

             


            From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
            Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

             

            Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  

             

            We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

             

            Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

             

            The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

             

            I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.


            Brook Watts

            303-684-9170 Phone

            303-907-3133 Cell

            323-329-9315 Fax

             

             

             

            Begin forwarded message:



            From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>

            Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST

            Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

             

            Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

             

            In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

             

            Here's a few items we need to face:

             

            -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

             

            -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

             

            -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

             

            -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

             

            -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

             

            -- What other issues have I neglected to include?

             

             

            Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

             

            Thoughts?  Next steps?

             


            Brook Watts
            brook.watts@...
            303-684-9170 Phone

            303-907-3133 Cell

            Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011

             



             

             

             

          • mikeh@iglou.com
            Brook I have my hand raised in support of your effort. I will be glad to help out where I would fit in. I agree this is important for the future. Mike Hewitt
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Brook

              I have my hand raised in support of your effort. I will be glad to help
              out where I would fit in. I agree this is important for the future.

              Mike Hewitt

              On Mon, January 10, 2011 13:15, Brook Watts wrote:
              > Thanks for the response Bruce.
              >
              >
              > To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the
              > USAICO.
              >
              >
              > At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad
              > discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc. but
              > the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to
              > limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by
              > 10% of the e-mail group members.
              >
              >
              > We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the
              > international community of cross promoters and the UCI.
              >
              > We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and
              > managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call
              > service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.
              >
              > We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of
              > sponsors and athletes as well.
              >
              > FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the
              > USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel. I'd encourage any
              > group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting. The international
              > group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has
              > asked me how to encourage it. Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid
              > by the 15th to attend. Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting
              > location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.
              >
              >
              >
              > Brook Watts
              > brook.watts@... 303-684-9170 Phone
              > 303-907-3133 Cell
              > 323-329-9315 Fax
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:
              >
              >
              >>
              >> Dear Brook, All
              >>
              >>
              >> I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I
              >> also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about
              >> what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
              >>
              >> I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of
              >> governance and mission statement.
              >>
              >> Bruce
              >>
              >>
              >> From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
              >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              >> Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
              >> Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public
              >> and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to
              >> formalize the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public
              >> website that provides info but has a backend available by password to
              >> members. The key to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a
              >> fee but instead inscription via a form.
              >>
              >>
              >> We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our
              >> group needs to adjust for the new era.
              >>
              >> Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups
              >> suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the
              >> group. We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if
              >> that's simply registering for access to the info.
              >>
              >> The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form
              >> some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
              >>
              >> I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
              >>
              >>
              >> Brook Watts
              >> brook.watts@... 303-684-9170 Phone
              >> 303-907-3133 Cell
              >> 323-329-9315 Fax
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Begin forwarded message:
              >>
              >>
              >>> From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
              >>> Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
              >>> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              >>> Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I
              >>> support this call for greater coordination AND communication.
              >>>
              >>> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this
              >>> e-mail list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an
              >>> organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not
              >>> suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather
              >>> we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have
              >>> currently in this e-mail group.
              >>>
              >>> Here's a few items we need to face:
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races,
              >>> not just International races -- looped into these conversations? The
              >>> addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to
              >>> UCI status illustrates this need.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice
              >>> that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That
              >>> structure, using the model seen in most organizations, would include
              >>> establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with
              >>> pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve
              >>> scheduling issues, etc. Work groups report back to the general
              >>> membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.
              >>>
              >>> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we
              >>> harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our
              >>> goals?
              >>>
              >>> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need
              >>> an athlete representative as part of our structure?
              >>>
              >>> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with
              >>> password protected access, to manage communication among members,
              >>> serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?
              >>>
              >>> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the
              >>> growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the
              >>> new demands. Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the
              >>> needed adjustments.
              >>>
              >>> Thoughts? Next steps?
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Brook Watts
              >>> brook.watts@... 303-684-9170 Phone
              >>> 303-907-3133 Cell
              >>> 323-329-9315 Fax
              >>> http://www.crossvegas.com/
              >>> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
            • Paul Boudreau
              Once we determine the structure of a more formalized organization I would be happy to help out when possible (in other words be one of those 10% that do the
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Once we determine the structure of a more formalized organization I would be happy to help out when possible (in other words be one of those 10% that do the work).
                Let's figure out the goals, structure and associated costs then determine the annual dues.
                Maybe a meeting of interested parties is in order? 

                -p


                On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...> wrote:
                 

                All-

                 

                I’m all for taking the current list private and limited to important races ( No I can not define exactly what a important cross race is) but I think it is time to pare the list down to promoters ASAP.

                 

                I’m would also a back a modest fee, a web presence and some more formal structure.

                 

                Who on the list is interested in being our named spokesperson.  Anyone have any nominations?

                 

                Tom

                 

                 

                 

                From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Fina
                Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 12:24 PM
                To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                 

                 

                Dear Brook, All

                 

                I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

                 

                I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

                 

                Bruce

                 


                From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                 

                Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  

                 

                We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

                 

                Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

                 

                The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

                 

                I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.


                Brook Watts

                303-684-9170 Phone

                303-907-3133 Cell

                323-329-9315 Fax

                 

                 

                 

                Begin forwarded message:



                From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>

                Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST

                Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

                 

                Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

                 

                In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

                 

                Here's a few items we need to face:

                 

                -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

                 

                -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

                 

                -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

                 

                -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

                 

                -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

                 

                -- What other issues have I neglected to include?

                 

                 

                Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

                 

                Thoughts?  Next steps?

                 


                Brook Watts
                brook.watts@...
                303-684-9170 Phone

                303-907-3133 Cell

                Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011

                 



                 

                 

                 




                --
                ______________

                Paul Boudreau
                e paul@...
                w paulboudreau.net
                aim paullybnikon
              • Myles Romanow
                Briefly I agree and am onboard as well. ... be ... do ... races ... it ... have ... group. ... simply ... format ... that ... just ... illustrates ... Work ...
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
                • 0 Attachment

                  Briefly I agree and am onboard as well.

                  On Jan 10, 2011 2:59 PM, "Paul Boudreau" <paullyb@...> wrote:
                  > Once we determine the structure of a more formalized organization I would be
                  > happy to help out when possible (in other words be one of those 10% that do
                  > the work).
                  > Let's figure out the goals, structure and associated costs then determine
                  > the annual dues.
                  > Maybe a meeting of interested parties is in order?
                  >
                  > -p
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...>wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> All-
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I’m all for taking the current list private and limited to important races
                  >> ( No I can not define exactly what a important cross race is) but I think it
                  >> is time to pare the list down to promoters ASAP.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I’m would also a back a modest fee, a web presence and some more formal
                  >> structure.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Who on the list is interested in being our named spokesperson. Anyone have
                  >> any nominations?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Tom
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> *From:* USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
                  >> Of *Bruce Fina
                  >> *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2011 12:24 PM
                  >> *To:* USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                  >> *Subject:* Re: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the
                  >> group
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Dear Brook, All
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I
                  >> also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about what
                  >> they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance
                  >> and mission statement.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Bruce
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> *From:* Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                  >> *To:* USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                  >> *Sent:* Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                  >> *Subject:* Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and
                  >> this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize
                  >> the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public website that
                  >> provides info but has a backend available by password to members. The key
                  >> to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead
                  >> inscription via a form.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our
                  >> group needs to adjust for the new era.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups
                  >> suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.
                  >> We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply
                  >> registering for access to the info.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some
                  >> work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Brook Watts
                  >>
                  >> brook.watts@...
                  >>
                  >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                  >>
                  >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                  >>
                  >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Begin forwarded message:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> *From: *"Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                  >>
                  >> *Date: *December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                  >>
                  >> *To: *USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                  >>
                  >> *Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar*
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I support
                  >> this call for greater coordination AND communication.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail
                  >> list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an organizational format
                  >> that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not suggesting "membership" in
                  >> USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that
                  >> is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Here's a few items we need to face:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just
                  >> International races -- looped into these conversations? The addition of a
                  >> national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates
                  >> this need.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that
                  >> contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That structure,
                  >> using the model seen in most organizations, would include establishing
                  >> smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters
                  >> including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc. Work
                  >> groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle
                  >> multiple issues.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we
                  >> harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need an
                  >> athlete representative as part of our structure?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password
                  >> protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a
                  >> depository for resources, forms and materials?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of
                  >> U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.
                  >> Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Thoughts? Next steps?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Brook Watts
                  >> brook.watts@...
                  >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                  >>
                  >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                  >>
                  >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                  >> http://www.crossvegas.com/
                  >>
                  >> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > ______________
                  >
                  > Paul Boudreau
                  > e paul@...
                  > w paulboudreau.net
                  > aim paullybnikon
                • john.meehan@seattlechildrens.org
                  I agree with Bruce and offer my assistance in formalizing a structure that helps promote all of our needs. John Meehan Jingle Cross Rock 206 947 7793 Sent from
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I agree with Bruce and offer my assistance in formalizing a structure that helps promote all of our needs.

                    John Meehan
                    Jingle Cross Rock
                    206 947 7793

                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


                    From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                    Sender: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:15:02 -0700
                    To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                    ReplyTo: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                     

                    Thanks for the response Bruce.  


                    To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.  

                    At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc.  but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.  

                    We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.  

                    We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.

                    We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.

                    FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel.  I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting.  The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it.  Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend.  Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.



                    Brook Watts
                    303-684-9170 Phone
                    303-907-3133 Cell
                    323-329-9315 Fax




                    On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:

                     

                    Dear Brook, All

                    I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

                    I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

                    Bruce


                    From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                    To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                    Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                     

                    Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  


                    We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

                    Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

                    The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

                    I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

                    Brook Watts
                    303-684-9170 Phone
                    303-907-3133 Cell
                    323-329-9315 Fax




                    Begin forwarded message:

                    From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                    Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                    Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

                    Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

                    In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

                    Here's a few items we need to face:

                    -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

                    -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

                    -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

                    -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

                    -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

                    -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


                    Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

                    Thoughts?  Next steps?


                    Brook Watts
                    brook.watts@...
                    303-684-9170 Phone
                    303-907-3133 Cell
                    Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011











                    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

                  • Dwayne Letterman
                    Hello All, As I ve mentioned before, I m new to all things UCI and haven t been active since I m not sure I have a lot to offer. Plus, I m in the midst of
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello All,
                      As I've mentioned before, I'm new to all things UCI and haven't been active since I'm not sure I have a lot to offer. Plus, I'm in the midst of final preparations for the Kingsport UCI race.

                      I'm already a busy person, Cyclo-cross Director for the Tennessee Bike Racing Association, which being a board position carries other responsibilities. I'm also on the board of our local club and the club secretary, and I'm also the chief promoter for my club (I've organized 10 CX races this season, 3 Crits, and 3 fun rides in 2010 ), and as an official, CR'd 7 times. I also have a job, and family, and I still try to ride and be competitive. So, I said all that to say this, we are all busy. I don't think the lack of response is do to a lack of agreement.

                      Being new to things, this group has been helpful, many people have offered me advice, and Adam has always answered my questions. If the USACIO is formalized then we need to decide who it's foe? I think it should include both organizers who have UCI events and those given NRC status. I think most of hose given NRC status have the goal of being UCI races. Having the group open to them would help insure that they understand all the intricacies of UCI promotion. I didn't realize how much I bit off when sent in my inscription, and was surprised when I was actually given a race. Knowing for sure, you are doing things right, would be a good way for the group to help and would help raise the level of production for us all including NRC races. One example, a lot of pictures of US races I've looked at didn't have barricades lining the start/finish, and the pits didn't look as if the met the standard in the regulations. That caused me to wonder if the expense of barricades was necessary. After talking with the guys at Hendersonville, NC, I decided it was. Having the kind of information readily available would be a big help for new people. I'm sure there are many other ways for the collective group to help new people. If new people and new races are what we want.

                      Having a board, and a president, would be a great way to ensure we are all on the same page and are moving in the same direction into the future. A board and president could also represent us to USAC, and UCI. Having a front end website for the public and a back end for promoters is the way I would go. As for cost, I would not charge anymore than what it costs to build and maintain a website (we don't need a super flashy page), and possibly pay some expenses for people representing us to USAC and UCI. If dues are too much people won't join. For me, cyclo-cross is my passion, I don't do this for money and don't make any. I for one would be a part of it, and help with whatever I am capable of doing and have time for.

                      I hope the perspective of someone new had been helpful.

                      Thanks, Dwayne

                      PS: I nominate Adam Myerson as the first "recognized" president of the group. I know he is already very busy, but he already has a good re pore with everyone.

                      On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                       

                      Thanks for the response Bruce.  


                      To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.  

                      At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc.  but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.  

                      We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.  

                      We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.

                      We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.

                      FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel.  I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting.  The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it.  Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend.  Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.



                      Brook Watts
                      303-684-9170 Phone
                      303-907-3133 Cell
                      323-329-9315 Fax




                      On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:

                       

                      Dear Brook, All

                      I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

                      I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

                      Bruce


                      From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                      To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                      Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                       

                      Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  


                      We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

                      Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

                      The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

                      I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

                      Brook Watts
                      303-684-9170 Phone
                      303-907-3133 Cell
                      323-329-9315 Fax




                      Begin forwarded message:

                      From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                      Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                      Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

                      Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

                      In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

                      Here's a few items we need to face:

                      -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

                      -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

                      -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

                      -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

                      -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

                      -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


                      Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

                      Thoughts?  Next steps?


                      Brook Watts
                      brook.watts@...
                      303-684-9170 Phone
                      303-907-3133 Cell
                      Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011













                      --
                      Tri Cities Road Club:
                      http://www.tricitiesroadclub.org
                      Mud, Sweat and Gears Cyclo-cross:
                      http://www.msgcross.com
                    • Richard Fries
                      agreed. A more formal group, meeting perhaps annually at the nationals and charging a modest membership fee ($100-$1,000 ???) could strengthen our sport and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        agreed. A more formal group, meeting perhaps annually at the nationals and charging a modest membership fee ($100-$1,000 ???) could strengthen our sport and give us more respect by USAC and the UCI.  
                         
                        R


                        From: Dwayne Letterman <dwayneletterman@...>
                        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 3:49:45 PM
                        Subject: Re: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                         

                        Hello All,
                        As I've mentioned before, I'm new to all things UCI and haven't been active since I'm not sure I have a lot to offer. Plus, I'm in the midst of final preparations for the Kingsport UCI race.

                        I'm already a busy person, Cyclo-cross Director for the Tennessee Bike Racing Association, which being a board position carries other responsibilities. I'm also on the board of our local club and the club secretary, and I'm also the chief promoter for my club (I've organized 10 CX races this season, 3 Crits, and 3 fun rides in 2010 ), and as an official, CR'd 7 times. I also have a job, and family, and I still try to ride and be competitive. So, I said all that to say this, we are all busy. I don't think the lack of response is do to a lack of agreement.

                        Being new to things, this group has been helpful, many people have offered me advice, and Adam has always answered my questions. If the USACIO is formalized then we need to decide who it's foe? I think it should include both organizers who have UCI events and those given NRC status. I think most of hose given NRC status have the goal of being UCI races. Having the group open to them would help insure that they understand all the intricacies of UCI promotion. I didn't realize how much I bit off when sent in my inscription, and was surprised when I was actually given a race. Knowing for sure, you are doing things right, would be a good way for the group to help and would help raise the level of production for us all including NRC races. One example, a lot of pictures of US races I've looked at didn't have barricades lining the start/finish, and the pits didn't look as if the met the standard in the regulations. That caused me to wonder if the expense of barricades was necessary. After talking with the guys at Hendersonville, NC, I decided it was. Having the kind of information readily available would be a big help for new people. I'm sure there are many other ways for the collective group to help new people. If new people and new races are what we want.

                        Having a board, and a president, would be a great way to ensure we are all on the same page and are moving in the same direction into the future. A board and president could also represent us to USAC, and UCI. Having a front end website for the public and a back end for promoters is the way I would go. As for cost, I would not charge anymore than what it costs to build and maintain a website (we don't need a super flashy page), and possibly pay some expenses for people representing us to USAC and UCI. If dues are too much people won't join. For me, cyclo-cross is my passion, I don't do this for money and don't make any. I for one would be a part of it, and help with whatever I am capable of doing and have time for.

                        I hope the perspective of someone new had been helpful.

                        Thanks, Dwayne

                        PS: I nominate Adam Myerson as the first "recognized" president of the group. I know he is already very busy, but he already has a good re pore with everyone.

                        On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                         

                        Thanks for the response Bruce.  


                        To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.  

                        At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc.  but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.  

                        We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.  

                        We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.

                        We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.

                        FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel.  I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting.  The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it.  Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend.  Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.



                        Brook Watts
                        303-684-9170 Phone
                        303-907-3133 Cell
                        323-329-9315 Fax




                        On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:

                         

                        Dear Brook, All

                        I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

                        I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

                        Bruce


                        From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                        Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                         

                        Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  


                        We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

                        Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

                        The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

                        I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

                        Brook Watts
                        303-684-9170 Phone
                        303-907-3133 Cell
                        323-329-9315 Fax




                        Begin forwarded message:

                        From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                        Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                        Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

                        Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

                        In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

                        Here's a few items we need to face:

                        -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

                        -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

                        -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

                        -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

                        -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

                        -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


                        Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

                        Thoughts?  Next steps?


                        Brook Watts
                        brook.watts@...
                        303-684-9170 Phone
                        303-907-3133 Cell
                        323-329-9315 Fax
                        http://www.crossvegas.com/
                        Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011













                        --
                        Tri Cities Road Club:
                        http://www.tricitiesroadclub.org
                        Mud, Sweat and Gears Cyclo-cross:
                        http://www.msgcross.com

                      • Adam Myerson
                        All, Sorry, Brook, for not responding sooner. This is a super busy time for me with coaching and setting up the team for the road season. I support the effort
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 10, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          All,

                          Sorry, Brook, for not responding sooner. This is a super busy time for me with coaching and setting up the team for the road season.

                          I support the effort in principle. I think the thing that has to start first is that we have to define what the group is, though, and what the goals are.

                          I started the group, first and foremost, as a sort of professional union where we shared information to strengthen each other's races, develop each other's scenes, prevent date conflicts, provide a forum to work them out, and represent the needs of all the organizers to USA Cycling. This was also before there was anyone at USA Cycling working on 'cross other than the national events director. So it was Tara when we started, then Matt Murphy, Justin Rogers, and now Kelli. We're lucky to also have Marc on board now, too.

                          When I joined the 'cross commission and the AIOC-Cross management committee, I also used the email list to report back to the group, share that information from the top, and bring information from us back up to the UCI. We have Geoff for that now.

                          So I would like to see all those things continue. As you may have noticed, I'm losing energy and time to do it all myself, and I've appreciated the help of people who've stepped up to take on some of that work. Brook and Kelly Cline have been great examples of people taking on specific jobs. I really appreciated John Meehan's effort to try and raise money within the group to pay me at one point, but I just didn't feel comfortable taking on that official responsibility or take money for it at the time.

                          That leads to my next concern. More formal infrastructure also means more committed work. More work makes more work organizing the work. I do not think the dynamic of 10% of the people doing 90% of the work will actually change. But if 100% of us are putting in $100 dues, let's say, then I think we can all feel good about paying a president to be more officially responsible for organizing the group in a formal way, and asking for help when needed.

                          I'm ready to let go of this thing as "my baby," but naturally that's not the easiest thing for me to do, even if I know it's what's best. I just want to make sure it's going in the right direction. I guess I have to be prepared for it to fail, even, if I let it go.

                          So, again, in favor. And also, as the founder and unofficial head of the group, I'm formally stating that I'm not looking to continue as the "official" head of the group.

                          Adam


                          On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:58 PM, Richard Fries wrote:



                          agreed. A more formal group, meeting perhaps annually at the nationals and charging a modest membership fee ($100-$1,000 ???) could strengthen our sport and give us more respect by USAC and the UCI.  
                           
                          R


                          From: Dwayne Letterman <dwayneletterman@...>
                          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 3:49:45 PM
                          Subject: Re: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                          Hello All, 
                          As I've mentioned before, I'm new to all things UCI and haven't been active since I'm not sure I have a lot to offer. Plus, I'm in the midst of final preparations for the Kingsport UCI race. 

                          I'm already a busy person, Cyclo-cross Director for the Tennessee Bike Racing Association, which being a board position carries other responsibilities. I'm also on the board of our local club and the club secretary, and I'm also the chief promoter for my club (I've organized 10 CX races this season, 3 Crits, and 3 fun rides in 2010 ), and as an official, CR'd 7 times. I also have a job, and family, and I still try to ride and be competitive. So, I said all that to say this, we are all busy. I don't think the lack of response is do to a lack of agreement.

                          Being new to things, this group has been helpful, many people have offered me advice, and Adam has always answered my questions. If the USACIO is formalized then we need to decide who it's foe? I think it should include both organizers who have UCI events and those given NRC status. I think most of hose given NRC status have the goal of being UCI races. Having the group open to them would help insure that they understand all the intricacies of UCI promotion. I didn't realize how much I bit off when sent in my inscription, and was surprised when I was actually given a race. Knowing for sure, you are doing things right, would be a good way for the group to help and would help raise the level of production for us all including NRC races. One example, a lot of pictures of US races I've looked at didn't have barricades lining the start/finish, and the pits didn't look as if the met the standard in the regulations. That caused me to wonder if the expense of barricades was necessary. After talking with the guys at Hendersonville, NC, I decided it was. Having the kind of information readily available would be a big help for new people. I'm sure there are many other ways for the collective group to help new people. If new people and new races are what we want.

                          Having a board, and a president, would be a great way to ensure we are all on the same page and are moving in the same direction into the future. A board and president could also represent us to USAC, and UCI. Having a front end website for the public and a back end for promoters is the way I would go. As for cost, I would not charge anymore than what it costs to build and maintain a website (we don't need a super flashy page), and possibly pay some expenses for people representing us to USAC and UCI. If dues are too much people won't join. For me, cyclo-cross is my passion, I don't do this for money and don't make any. I for one would be a part of it, and help with whatever I am capable of doing and have time for.

                          I hope the perspective of someone new had been helpful.

                          Thanks, Dwayne

                          PS: I nominate Adam Myerson as the first "recognized" president of the group. I know he is already very busy, but he already has a good re pore with everyone.

                          On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                           

                          Thanks for the response Bruce.  


                          To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.  

                          At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc.  but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.  

                          We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.  

                          We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.

                          We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.

                          FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel.  I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting.  The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it.  Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend.  Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.



                          Brook Watts
                          303-684-9170 Phone
                          303-907-3133 Cell
                          323-329-9315 Fax




                          On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:

                           

                          Dear Brook, All

                          I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy.  I also think there should be a fee involved.  People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.

                          I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.

                          Bruce


                          From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                          Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                           

                          Adam, Paul are correct about  correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner.  This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members.  The key to membership?  It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.  


                          We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.

                          Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group.  We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.  

                          The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.

                          I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.

                          Brook Watts
                          303-684-9170 Phone
                          303-907-3133 Cell
                          323-329-9315 Fax




                          Begin forwarded message:

                          From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                          Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                          Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar

                          Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters.  I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.

                          In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO.  We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings.  I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.  

                          Here's a few items we need to face:

                          -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations?  The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.

                          -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI?  That structure, using the model seen in most organizations,  would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc.  Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.

                          -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship?  How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?

                          -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group?  Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?

                          -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?

                          -- What other issues have I neglected to include?


                          Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands.   Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.

                          Thoughts?  Next steps?


                          Brook Watts
                          brook.watts@...
                          303-684-9170 Phone
                          303-907-3133 Cell
                          Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011













                          -- 
                          Tri Cities Road Club:
                          http://www.tricitiesroadclub.org
                          Mud, Sweat and Gears Cyclo-cross:
                          http://www.msgcross.com




                        • spinarts@comcast.net
                          I think a meeting is in order, but meeting at Nationals is a bad idea. The meeting we ve had there already takes too much time at an inconvenient point. To
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 11, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment

                            I think a meeting is in order, but meeting at Nationals is a bad idea. The meeting we've had there already takes too much time at an inconvenient point. To have a more involved discussion we need more time and not have the distraction of other responsibilities. Perhaps, since the CUSA cx meeting is mandatory and will be several days long, we should carve out a significant chunk of time then just for the promoters then. Presumably we'll mostly all be there.

                            I am also leery of any structure that leads to a closed membership with a self-apointing board.

                            Very modest dues might be appropriate. I would be interested first in hearing what the mission of the the group is and then discuss what any group income would go to, or come from.

                             

                            Tom Stevens


                             

                          • brucefina
                            Hi Brook We are planning to attend the AIOCC meeting in St Wendel also. Could you please share with us what your presentation will include? I think we need
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 11, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Brook

                              We are planning to attend the AIOCC meeting in St Wendel also. Could you please share with us what your presentation will include? I think we need to of course be very careful in what we say to this group. As we all know, we have gotten a sweetheart deal in the US for years and that has been changing. It is this group that has been the driving force to change it. They push very hard to see our standards raised to what they see their standards to be. Yet our model, being a participation sport in the US, is a very different model than they enjoy in Europe.

                              I look forward to hear more.

                              Cheers
                              Bruce


                              --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks for the response Bruce.
                              >
                              > To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.
                              >
                              > At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc. but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.
                              >
                              > We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.
                              >
                              > We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.
                              >
                              > We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.
                              >
                              > FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel. I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting. The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it. Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend. Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Brook Watts
                              > brook.watts@...
                              > 303-684-9170 Phone
                              > 303-907-3133 Cell
                              > 323-329-9315 Fax
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Dear Brook, All
                              > >
                              > > I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
                              > >
                              > > I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.
                              > >
                              > > Bruce
                              > >
                              > > From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                              > > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                              > > Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members. The key to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.
                              > >
                              > > Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group. We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.
                              > >
                              > > The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
                              > >
                              > > I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
                              > >
                              > > Brook Watts
                              > > brook.watts@...
                              > > 303-684-9170 Phone
                              > > 303-907-3133 Cell
                              > > 323-329-9315 Fax
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Begin forwarded message:
                              > >
                              > >> From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                              > >> Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                              > >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                              > >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar
                              > >>
                              > >> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.
                              > >>
                              > >> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.
                              > >>
                              > >> Here's a few items we need to face:
                              > >>
                              > >> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations? The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.
                              > >>
                              > >> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That structure, using the model seen in most organizations, would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc. Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.
                              > >>
                              > >> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?
                              > >>
                              > >> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?
                              > >>
                              > >> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?
                              > >>
                              > >> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands. Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.
                              > >>
                              > >> Thoughts? Next steps?
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> Brook Watts
                              > >> brook.watts@...
                              > >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                              > >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                              > >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                              > >> http://www.crossvegas.com/
                              > >> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • brucefina
                              Hi All A few suggestions here to continue this conversation. I agree a meeting is a good idea as well as some more frequent conference calls. The meeting at
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 11, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi All

                                A few suggestions here to continue this conversation.

                                I agree a meeting is a good idea as well as some more frequent conference calls. The meeting at USAC is also a good idea, thanks Tom.

                                I do think a decent dues is in order. Not a lot but maybe $200. Just enough so that you care. I do not think that there should be any paid positions here. If we are going to do this, then we should be doing it to better our races and business.

                                I think money should be spent on setting up and maintaining a website and closed forum limited to paying members. I think you should only be a member if you have a UCI race or an NRC race. I agree with Dwayne that we should be including those that want to become a UCI race. But they at least have to have an NRC race and have paid their dues to be in the forum.

                                There will also be a need to spend money on setting up conference calls so that they are toll free to dial in.

                                Finally I might suggest that we as a group use remaining funds to sponsor the first non-USA Cycling funded junior to go to Worlds each year. That would be a good cause and we can celebrate or work as a group by doing this each season.

                                The mission, should be to give one voice to promoters in dealing with the UCI and USA Cycling over issues concerning rules and regulations that affect our ability to make great races for our riders, sponsors and ourselves. The forum should also be a place for promoters to share information they feel is relevant to the group. Lets face it, we are competitors and this is not going to change. That said, there are many aspects on which we all agree and I would look forward to participate.

                                Kindest Regards
                                Bruce

                                --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, spinarts@... wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I think a meeting is in order, but meeting at Nationals is a bad idea. The meeting we've had there already takes too much time at an inconvenient point. To have a more involved discussion we need more time and not have the distraction of other responsibilities. Perhaps, since the CUSA cx meeting is mandatory and will be several days long, we should carve out a significant chunk of time then just for the promoters then. Presumably we'll mostly all be there.
                                >
                                > I am also leery of any structure that leads to a closed membership with a self-apointing board.
                                >
                                > Very modest dues might be appropriate. I would be interested first in hearing what the mission of the the group is and then discuss what any group income would go to, or come from.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Tom Stevens
                                >
                              • Myles Romanow
                                I m really not feeling spending 200$ to prove to people that I care. I tend to think that people know I care because I try to do a great job promoting races,
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 11, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'm really not feeling spending 200$ to prove to people that I care.  I tend to think that people know I care because I try to do a great job promoting races, and spend zillions of man hours a year doing so. I'd like to hope that people realize I care about the future of the sport in my adopted country by providing ground breaking concepts like paying women equally, really big hills, and showers for riders at venues.  

                                  So.. I don't really think it's necessary to pay a sum of cash to show that I care, or do more than promote an NRC race, or belong to an organization that is supposed to help me do the above, and help others do it as well.  Let's not forget that what used to be the greatest strength of this organization was the FREE exchange of information.  

                                  That being said.. do we need a website?  Meh.  Unsure what purpose it would serve.  Do we need a better forum?  Meh.  Again unsure what purpose a better forum would serve.  Privacy?  Exclusivity?  Again, with the forum and group being created around the free exchange of information to encourage growth, I'm not entirely sure I'm down with that.  While submissions to the forum should be restricted to the actual members of the group that promote an actual event, the forum itself can serve as a valuable resource for people promoting a USAC race, or an absolute grass roots race, or a first time weeknight pick up event.  Remember, secrets don't make friends. 

                                  The other issue that is being brought up.. Group leadership.  Right now, the most important thing we need is a voice in the crowd.  Someone to stick up for, fight for, whatever for the group.  I do not think we have that currently.  That is something we desperately need.  It has been my thoughts for several years that America is simply taking whatever wackiness the UCI throws at us, without a voice for or against.  While I am for the elevation of the quality of races in this country, the reality of the situation simply is that America is a very different market than Europe.  We have more surface area (than most of europe.. bear with me), a huge population base, but fewer riders overall.  Just because we have 63 races, does not mean we need to remove some.  You can't drive to portland in three hours from Boston, but you can drive across how many countries in europe in the same time?  Having more races to race does not dilute the quality of our high end racers, Tim johnson can only race twice a weekend, just like sven nys.   I might argue that the european market is unfair to americans by offering more weekday uci races, a continental championship, and ease of travel to world cups. 

                                  So yes,  we need leadership and a voice.  
                                  If we have a website, and want to charge out dues for said websites actual cost etc, sure. whatever.  A website is pretty cheap, and split up 40 ways it's nothing.  As for taking juniors to worlds, I think that may start more problems that it solves, but I am for anything that brings more juniors into the sport. 


                                  m


                                  I agree a meeting is a good idea as well as some more frequent conference calls. The meeting at USAC is also a good idea, thanks Tom.


                                  I do think a decent dues is in order. Not a lot but maybe $200. Just enough so that you care. I do not think that there should be any paid positions here. If we are going to do this, then we should be doing it to better our races and business.

                                  I think money should be spent on setting up and maintaining a website and closed forum limited to paying members. I think you should only be a member if you have a UCI race or an NRC race. I agree with Dwayne that we should be including those that want to become a UCI race. But they at least have to have an NRC race and have paid their dues to be in the forum.

                                  There will also be a need to spend money on setting up conference calls so that they are toll free to dial in.

                                  Finally I might suggest that we as a group use remaining funds to sponsor the first non-USA Cycling funded junior to go to Worlds each year. That would be a good cause and we can celebrate or work as a group by doing this each season.

                                  The mission, should be to give one voice to promoters in dealing with the UCI and USA Cycling over issues concerning rules and regulations that affect our ability to make great races for our riders, sponsors and ourselves. The forum should also be a place for promoters to share information they feel is relevant to the group. Lets face it, we are competitors and this is not going to change. That said, there are many aspects on which we all agree and I would look forward to participate.

                                  Kindest Regards
                                  Bruce

                                  --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, spinarts@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I think a meeting is in order, but meeting at Nationals is a bad idea. The meeting we've had there already takes too much time at an inconvenient point. To have a more involved discussion we need more time and not have the distraction of other responsibilities. Perhaps, since the CUSA cx meeting is mandatory and will be several days long, we should carve out a significant chunk of time then just for the promoters then. Presumably we'll mostly all be there.
                                  >
                                  > I am also leery of any structure that leads to a closed membership with a self-apointing board.
                                  >
                                  > Very modest dues might be appropriate. I would be interested first in hearing what the mission of the the group is and then discuss what any group income would go to, or come from.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Tom Stevens
                                  >


                                • Richard Fries
                                  Guys, I look forward to attending as well in Germany. Can I get the details? I also would be happy to meet separately over there to discuss some of the
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 12, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Guys,
                                     
                                    I look forward to attending as well in Germany. Can I get the details?
                                     
                                    I also would be happy to meet separately over there to discuss some of the elements of formalizing our national group. I look forward to seeing everybody. 
                                     
                                    Regards,
                                     
                                    R


                                    From: brucefina <brucefina@...>
                                    To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 3:53:51 PM
                                    Subject: [USAICO] Re: Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                                     

                                    Hi Brook

                                    We are planning to attend the AIOCC meeting in St Wendel also. Could you please share with us what your presentation will include? I think we need to of course be very careful in what we say to this group. As we all know, we have gotten a sweetheart deal in the US for years and that has been changing. It is this group that has been the driving force to change it. They push very hard to see our standards raised to what they see their standards to be. Yet our model, being a participation sport in the US, is a very different model than they enjoy in Europe.

                                    I look forward to hear more.

                                    Cheers
                                    Bruce

                                    --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the response Bruce.
                                    >
                                    > To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.
                                    >
                                    > At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc. but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.
                                    >
                                    > We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.
                                    >
                                    > We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.
                                    >
                                    > We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.
                                    >
                                    > FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel. I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting. The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it. Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend. Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Brook Watts
                                    > brook.watts@...
                                    > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                    > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                    > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Dear Brook, All
                                    > >
                                    > > I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
                                    > >
                                    > > I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bruce
                                    > >
                                    > > From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                                    > > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                                    > > Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members. The key to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.
                                    > >
                                    > > Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group. We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.
                                    > >
                                    > > The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
                                    > >
                                    > > I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
                                    > >
                                    > > Brook Watts
                                    > > brook.watts@...
                                    > > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                    > > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                    > > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Begin forwarded message:
                                    > >
                                    > >> From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                                    > >> Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                                    > >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Here's a few items we need to face:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations? The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That structure, using the model seen in most organizations, would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc. Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands. Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Thoughts? Next steps?
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Brook Watts
                                    > >> brook.watts@...
                                    > >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                                    > >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                                    > >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                                    > >> http://www.crossvegas.com/
                                    > >> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • Brook Watts
                                    Complete details about AIOCC and meeting details are here: http://www.aiocc.com/news.asp?lang=en As I was reminded, the AIOCC 2011 dues must be paid in full in
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 12, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Complete details about AIOCC and meeting details are here:

                                      As I was reminded, the AIOCC 2011 dues must be paid in full in advance of the meeting.

                                      How about a roll call of U.S. attendees?  Then we can try to find a time & place to discuss formalizing the U.S. group.


                                      Brook Watts
                                      303-684-9170 Phone
                                      303-907-3133 Cell
                                      323-329-9315 Fax




                                      On Jan 12, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Richard Fries wrote:

                                       

                                      Guys,
                                       
                                      I look forward to attending as well in Germany. Can I get the details?
                                       
                                      I also would be happy to meet separately over there to discuss some of the elements of formalizing our national group. I look forward to seeing everybody. 
                                       
                                      Regards,
                                       
                                      R


                                      From: brucefina <brucefina@...>
                                      To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 3:53:51 PM
                                      Subject: [USAICO] Re: Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                                       

                                      Hi Brook

                                      We are planning to attend the AIOCC meeting in St Wendel also. Could you please share with us what your presentation will include? I think we need to of course be very careful in what we say to this group. As we all know, we have gotten a sweetheart deal in the US for years and that has been changing. It is this group that has been the driving force to change it. They push very hard to see our standards raised to what they see their standards to be. Yet our model, being a participation sport in the US, is a very different model than they enjoy in Europe.

                                      I look forward to hear more.

                                      Cheers
                                      Bruce

                                      --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the response Bruce.
                                      >
                                      > To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.
                                      >
                                      > At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc. but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.
                                      >
                                      > We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.
                                      >
                                      > We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.
                                      >
                                      > We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.
                                      >
                                      > FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel. I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting. The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it. Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend. Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Brook Watts
                                      > brook.watts@...
                                      > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                      > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                      > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > Dear Brook, All
                                      > >
                                      > > I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.
                                      > >
                                      > > Bruce
                                      > >
                                      > > From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                                      > > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                                      > > Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members. The key to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.
                                      > >
                                      > > Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group. We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.
                                      > >
                                      > > The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
                                      > >
                                      > > I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
                                      > >
                                      > > Brook Watts
                                      > > brook.watts@...
                                      > > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                      > > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                      > > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Begin forwarded message:
                                      > >
                                      > >> From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                                      > >> Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                                      > >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Here's a few items we need to face:
                                      > >>
                                      > >> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations? The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That structure, using the model seen in most organizations, would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc. Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?
                                      > >>
                                      > >> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?
                                      > >>
                                      > >> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?
                                      > >>
                                      > >> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands. Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Thoughts? Next steps?
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Brook Watts
                                      > >> brook.watts@...
                                      > >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                                      > >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                                      > >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                                      > >> http://www.crossvegas.com/
                                      > >> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >




                                    • Tom McDaniel
                                      My planned trip to world is not happening, so I will not be going to the meeting. Tom From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 12, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        My planned trip to world is not happening, so I will not be going to the meeting.

                                         

                                        Tom

                                         

                                        From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brook Watts
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:47 AM
                                        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                                         

                                         

                                        Complete details about AIOCC and meeting details are here:

                                         

                                        As I was reminded, the AIOCC 2011 dues must be paid in full in advance of the meeting.

                                         

                                        How about a roll call of U.S. attendees?  Then we can try to find a time & place to discuss formalizing the U.S. group.

                                         


                                        Brook Watts

                                        303-684-9170 Phone

                                        303-907-3133 Cell

                                        323-329-9315 Fax

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        On Jan 12, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Richard Fries wrote:



                                         

                                         

                                        Guys,

                                         

                                        I look forward to attending as well in Germany. Can I get the details?

                                         

                                        I also would be happy to meet separately over there to discuss some of the elements of formalizing our national group. I look forward to seeing everybody. 

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                         

                                        R

                                         


                                        From: brucefina <brucefina@...>
                                        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 3:53:51 PM
                                        Subject: [USAICO] Re: Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                                         

                                        Hi Brook

                                        We are planning to attend the AIOCC meeting in St Wendel also. Could you please share with us what your presentation will include? I think we need to of course be very careful in what we say to this group. As we all know, we have gotten a sweetheart deal in the US for years and that has been changing. It is this group that has been the driving force to change it. They push very hard to see our standards raised to what they see their standards to be. Yet our model, being a participation sport in the US, is a very different model than they enjoy in Europe.

                                        I look forward to hear more.

                                        Cheers
                                        Bruce

                                        --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for the response Bruce.
                                        >
                                        > To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.
                                        >
                                        > At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc. but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.
                                        >
                                        > We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.
                                        >
                                        > We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.
                                        >
                                        > We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.
                                        >
                                        > FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel. I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting. The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it. Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend. Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Brook Watts
                                        > brook.watts@...
                                        > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                        > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                        > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Dear Brook, All
                                        > >
                                        > > I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
                                        > >
                                        > > I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.
                                        > >
                                        > > Bruce
                                        > >
                                        > > From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                                        > > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                                        > > Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members. The key to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.
                                        > >
                                        > > Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group. We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.
                                        > >
                                        > > The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
                                        > >
                                        > > I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
                                        > >
                                        > > Brook Watts
                                        > > brook.watts@...
                                        > > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                        > > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                        > > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Begin forwarded message:
                                        > >
                                        > >> From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                                        > >> Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                                        > >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Here's a few items we need to face:
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations? The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That structure, using the model seen in most organizations, would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc. Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?
                                        > >>
                                        > >> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands. Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Thoughts? Next steps?
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Brook Watts
                                        > >> brook.watts@...
                                        > >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                                        > >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                                        > >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                                        > >> http://www.crossvegas.com/
                                        > >> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                      • joan hanscom
                                        Bruce and I will both be in attendance. Joan ... Joan Hanscom Louisville 2013 - Event Director USGP of Cyclocross - Event Director SKYPE ME: JoanHan16 Mobile:
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jan 12, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Bruce and I will both be in attendance.

                                          Joan


                                          On Jan 12, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Brook Watts wrote:

                                           

                                          Complete details about AIOCC and meeting details are here:


                                          As I was reminded, the AIOCC 2011 dues must be paid in full in advance of the meeting.

                                          How about a roll call of U.S. attendees?  Then we can try to find a time & place to discuss formalizing the U.S. group.


                                          Brook Watts
                                          303-684-9170 Phone
                                          303-907-3133 Cell
                                          323-329-9315 Fax




                                          On Jan 12, 2011, at 8:36 AM, Richard Fries wrote:

                                           

                                          Guys,
                                           
                                          I look forward to attending as well in Germany. Can I get the details?
                                           
                                          I also would be happy to meet separately over there to discuss some of the elements of formalizing our national group. I look forward to seeing everybody. 
                                           
                                          Regards,
                                           
                                          R


                                          From: brucefina <brucefina@...>
                                          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 3:53:51 PM
                                          Subject: [USAICO] Re: Non-UCI national calendar question for the group

                                           

                                          Hi Brook

                                          We are planning to attend the AIOCC meeting in St Wendel also. Could you please share with us what your presentation will include? I think we need to of course be very careful in what we say to this group. As we all know, we have gotten a sweetheart deal in the US for years and that has been changing. It is this group that has been the driving force to change it. They push very hard to see our standards raised to what they see their standards to be. Yet our model, being a participation sport in the US, is a very different model than they enjoy in Europe.

                                          I look forward to hear more.

                                          Cheers
                                          Bruce

                                          --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Brook Watts <brook.watts@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for the response Bruce.
                                          >
                                          > To date you're the first response to my post suggesting we formalize the USAICO.
                                          >
                                          > At the risk of generating a firestorm I had hoped to initiate a broad discussion about where we go, how we get there, who's included, etc. but the lack of input only reinforces my fear that USAICO will continue to limp along as a group in name only with 90% of the effort being done by 10% of the e-mail group members.
                                          >
                                          > We need to be an active advisory group not only to USAC but to the international community of cross promoters and the UCI.
                                          >
                                          > We need to have a group of people preparing our annual meeting and managing the myriad of tasks like meeting room, agenda, conference call service, etc. not just a few hardy souls.
                                          >
                                          > We need to represent and protect the interests of not only events but of sponsors and athletes as well.
                                          >
                                          > FYI, I'll be giving a brief presentation on the "state of cross in the USA" at the international meeting in Sankt Wendel. I'd encourage any group members going to St Wendel attend the meeting. The international group would love to see greater participation by US promoters and has asked me how to encourage it. Keep in mind that AIOCC dues must be paid by the 15th to attend. Anyone can feel free to contact me for meeting location, time, etc as well as annual dues payment info.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Brook Watts
                                          > brook.watts@...
                                          > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                          > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                          > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bruce Fina wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > Dear Brook, All
                                          > >
                                          > > I agree that it is time to formalize this group with some democracy. I also think there should be a fee involved. People seem to care about what they pay for, sadly maybe, but true.
                                          > >
                                          > > I am all for participating more if there is to be some sort of governance and mission statement.
                                          > >
                                          > > Bruce
                                          > >
                                          > > From: Brook Watts <brook.watts@...>
                                          > > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:31:32 PM
                                          > > Subject: Fwd: [USAICO] Non-UCI national calendar question for the group
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Adam, Paul are correct about correct about the comments being public and this supports what I said a couple of weeks ago....it's time to formalize the USAICO in some manner. This may be as simple as a public website that provides info but has a backend available by password to members. The key to membership? It doesn't have to be payment of a fee but instead inscription via a form.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > We've all admitted that this is a new era for cross in America and our group needs to adjust for the new era.
                                          > >
                                          > > Let's face it, we're suffering from the same syndrome that all groups suffer, 90% of the communication and work is being done by 10% of the group. We need to get all organizers involved in some manner even if that's simply registering for access to the info.
                                          > >
                                          > > The natural extension to that, as I proposed previously, is to form some work groups or committees to tackle issues of common interest.
                                          > >
                                          > > I've included by message from Dec. 21 as a refresher.
                                          > >
                                          > > Brook Watts
                                          > > brook.watts@...
                                          > > 303-684-9170 Phone
                                          > > 303-907-3133 Cell
                                          > > 323-329-9315 Fax
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Begin forwarded message:
                                          > >
                                          > >> From: "Brook.Watts@CrossVegas" <brook.watts@...>
                                          > >> Date: December 21, 2010 7:53:19 AM MST
                                          > >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] A Case for a Coordinated Calendar
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Richard makes a solid case for coordination among promoters. I support this call for greater coordination AND communication.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> In addition it's clear that not every promoter is reached by this e-mail list or is part of the USAICO. We need to look at an organizational format that overcomes those shortcomings. I'm not suggesting "membership" in USAICO since it implies a fee but rather we need to develop a structure that is a bit more formal than we have currently in this e-mail group.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Here's a few items we need to face:
                                          > >>
                                          > >> -- How do we get every promoter -- of all significant cross races, not just International races -- looped into these conversations? The addition of a national calendar that serves as a stepping stone to UCI status illustrates this need.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> -- Can we move toward a goal of being a group with a strong voice that contributes to the discussion with USA Cycling and UCI? That structure, using the model seen in most organizations, would include establishing smaller work groups of several members to deal with pressing matters including recommend course standards, resolve scheduling issues, etc. Work groups report back to the general membership thereby allowing us to tackle multiple issues.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> -- Do we need a leadership committee that steers our ship? How do we harness the human resources among our membership to accomplish our goals?
                                          > >>
                                          > >> -- How do we add the voices of the athletes to our group? Do we need an athlete representative as part of our structure?
                                          > >>
                                          > >> -- Do we need to look to a dedicated group website, perhaps with password protected access, to manage communication among members, serve as a depository for resources, forms and materials?
                                          > >>
                                          > >> -- What other issues have I neglected to include?
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Clearly this season has shown we're at a crucial juncture in the growth of U.S. cross, now we need to adjust as a group to handle the new demands. Let's not sit idly by until next season to make the needed adjustments.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Thoughts? Next steps?
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Brook Watts
                                          > >> brook.watts@...
                                          > >> 303-684-9170 Phone
                                          > >> 303-907-3133 Cell
                                          > >> 323-329-9315 Fax
                                          > >> http://www.crossvegas.com/
                                          > >> Wednesday Sept. 14, 2011
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >






                                          Joan Hanscom

                                          Louisville 2013 - Event Director
                                          USGP of Cyclocross - Event Director
                                          SKYPE ME:  JoanHan16
                                          Mobile: 484.995.0547

                                          www.louisville2013

                                          Follow me on Twitter:  Joanhan and Louisville2013







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