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Re: [U-Zendo] pat?

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  • Richard Horvitz
    Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list would be
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
      Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current
      US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list
      would be disregard of the health of the planet as a whole.

      "The Great Way is not difficult
      for those who have no preferences.
      When love and hate are both absent
      everything becomes clear and undisguised.
      Make the smallest distinction, however,
      and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

      If you wish to see the truth
      then hold no opinions for or against anything.
      To set up what you like against what you dislike
      is the disease of the mind.
      When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
      the minds essential peace is disturbed to no avail."
      from Hsin Hsin Ming

      So how is this possible?

      On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Pat Stacy wrote:

      > I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
      >
      > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
      >
      > Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
      >
      > Pat
    • Ralph Palmer
      Hi, Pat - I have no great insights. A few years ago, I first learned about Lebanon s confessional political system, and the fact that it operated for
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
        Hi, Pat -

        I have no great insights.

        A few years ago, I first learned about Lebanon's "confessional" political system, and the fact that it operated for something like 20 years or so with no major conflicts. That got me to thinking about different political systems and some of the unintended consequences of different systems. It seems like the U.S.'s majority rule would almost guarantee conflict, or at least alienation, rather than inclusion : someone has to win and someone has to lose. Of the political systems I've actually seen (not many!), the Friends (Quakers) have the one that seems to actually function and is inclusive. The Friends, however, are a closed group. I don't know how or whether consensus would work in more diverse settings.

        Ralph

        On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

        I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
         
        I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
         
        Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
         
        Pat
        ----- Original Message -----
        To: zendo
        Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:32 PM
        Subject: [U-Zendo] pat?

        Has Pat left (what remains of) our list? What a terrible loss! Is anyone
        else still here?




        --
        Ralph Palmer
        Greenfield, MA
        USA
        palmer.r.violin@...
      • Lee
        ... Ralph, I have had extensive experience with consensus decision making. I helped start the Greens here in Minnesota. It is one of the big reasons the
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
          On 8/29/08, Ralph Palmer <palmer.r.violin@...> wrote:

          >, the Friends (Quakers) have the one that seems to actually function and is inclusive.
          >The Friends, however, are a closed group. I don't know how or whether consensus would
          > work in more diverse settings.
          >

          Ralph,

          I have had extensive experience with consensus decision making.
          I helped start the Greens here in Minnesota. It is one of the big
          reasons the National organization cannot get anything done: one
          person can filibuster any issue.

          Run off elections might be one way to give 3rd party's a
          chance in our system. I have thought as things stand, that a Green
          caucus within the major parties might be the best way to have an
          effect.

          But you have to pick the lint out of your belly buttonn and
          stand up and do something. Democracy only works when citizens
          participate. When they don't, then money fills in for our citizen
          duties.



          --
          Lee Love in Minneapolis
          http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
          "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
          There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
        • Pat Stacy
          Exactly my point in choosing this subject. Almost everyone has a strong opinion of one candidate or another, and anger over at least one issue. The last eight
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
            Exactly my point in choosing this subject. Almost everyone has a strong opinion of one candidate or another, and anger over at least one issue. The last eight years have presented us with so much material.
             
            I'm going to have lunch today with a born-again, fundamentalist Christian Republican. We are political polar opposites and yet we have been friends for 25 years. Our viewpoints are just that---viewpoints.
             
            Thanks for the Hsin Hsin Ming, Richard. Its message is clear and seems so reasonable. But by the time we hear it for the first time, we are already deeply entrenched in opposites with their accompanying emotions. Now what? Is it possible to hold opinions without negativity? How is it possible to avoid making that "smallest distinction"?
             
            I'm signed up to be a poll worker. Will I be able to spend the day in equanimity? What makes a position feel so comfortable or necessary? What happens in my mind when I take a side for or against anything?
             
            Just a lot of questions...
             
            Pat
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:43 PM
            Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] pat?

            Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current
            US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list
            would be disregard of the health of the planet as a whole.

            "The Great Way is not difficult
            for those who have no preferences.
            When love and hate are both absent
            everything becomes clear and undisguised.
            Make the smallest distinction, however,
            and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

            If you wish to see the truth
            then hold no opinions for or against anything.
            To set up what you like against what you dislike
            is the disease of the mind.
            When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
            the minds essential peace is disturbed to no avail."
            from Hsin Hsin Ming

            So how is this possible?

            On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Pat Stacy wrote:

            > I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
            >
            > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
            >
            > Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
            >
            > Pat

          • Lee
            ... Yes. Action is where the reality is, independent of our thought secretions. ... I wish the Republican convention was not so soon after my return. (Just
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
              On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

              > . Our viewpoints are just that---viewpoints.

              Yes. Action is where the reality is, independent of our thought secretions.

              > I'm signed up to be a poll worker. Will I be able to spend the day in
              > equanimity? What makes a position feel so comfortable or necessary? What
              > happens in my mind when I take a side for or against anything?

              I wish the Republican convention was not so soon after my
              return. (Just shaking the jet lag. To many loose ends to tie.)

              A couple days ago, I was telling my young Republican housemate, who
              is moving to do a residency in Missoula, that I'd enjoy being a
              volunteer at the Republican convention.

              I support other people's engagement even if I disagree with their
              veiwpoint. Because in a democracy, citizens must burden their
              responsibilities.

              --
              Lee Love in Minneapolis
              http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
              "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
              There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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