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Re: [U-Zendo] pat?

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  • Lee
    Just watched the last half of Obama s speech. 45 years ago, it was Dr. King s dream. Now, it is reality. Sometimes you need to imagine the impossible
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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      Just watched the last half of Obama's speech. 45 years ago, it was
      Dr. King's dream. Now, it is reality. Sometimes you need to
      imagine the impossible before it becomes possible.



      "I look forward confidently to the day when all who work for a living
      will be one with no thought to their separateness as Negroes, Jews,
      Italians or any other distinctions. This will be the day when we bring
      into full realization the American dream -- a dream yet unfulfilled. A
      dream of equality of opportunity, of privilege and property widely
      distributed; a dream of a land where men will not take necessities
      from the many to give luxuries to the few; a dream of a land where men
      will not argue that the color of a man's skin determines the content
      of his character; a dream of a nation where all our gifts and
      resources are held not for ourselves alone, but as instruments of
      service for the rest of humanity; the dream of a country where every
      man will respect the dignity and worth of the human personality."

      -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
      --
      Lee Love in Minneapolis
      http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
      "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
      There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
    • Richard Horvitz
      Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list would be
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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        Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current
        US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list
        would be disregard of the health of the planet as a whole.

        "The Great Way is not difficult
        for those who have no preferences.
        When love and hate are both absent
        everything becomes clear and undisguised.
        Make the smallest distinction, however,
        and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

        If you wish to see the truth
        then hold no opinions for or against anything.
        To set up what you like against what you dislike
        is the disease of the mind.
        When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
        the minds essential peace is disturbed to no avail."
        from Hsin Hsin Ming

        So how is this possible?

        On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Pat Stacy wrote:

        > I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
        >
        > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
        >
        > Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
        >
        > Pat
      • Ralph Palmer
        Hi, Pat - I have no great insights. A few years ago, I first learned about Lebanon s confessional political system, and the fact that it operated for
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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          Hi, Pat -

          I have no great insights.

          A few years ago, I first learned about Lebanon's "confessional" political system, and the fact that it operated for something like 20 years or so with no major conflicts. That got me to thinking about different political systems and some of the unintended consequences of different systems. It seems like the U.S.'s majority rule would almost guarantee conflict, or at least alienation, rather than inclusion : someone has to win and someone has to lose. Of the political systems I've actually seen (not many!), the Friends (Quakers) have the one that seems to actually function and is inclusive. The Friends, however, are a closed group. I don't know how or whether consensus would work in more diverse settings.

          Ralph

          On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

          I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
           
          I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
           
          Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
           
          Pat
          ----- Original Message -----
          To: zendo
          Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:32 PM
          Subject: [U-Zendo] pat?

          Has Pat left (what remains of) our list? What a terrible loss! Is anyone
          else still here?




          --
          Ralph Palmer
          Greenfield, MA
          USA
          palmer.r.violin@...
        • Lee
          ... Ralph, I have had extensive experience with consensus decision making. I helped start the Greens here in Minnesota. It is one of the big reasons the
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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            On 8/29/08, Ralph Palmer <palmer.r.violin@...> wrote:

            >, the Friends (Quakers) have the one that seems to actually function and is inclusive.
            >The Friends, however, are a closed group. I don't know how or whether consensus would
            > work in more diverse settings.
            >

            Ralph,

            I have had extensive experience with consensus decision making.
            I helped start the Greens here in Minnesota. It is one of the big
            reasons the National organization cannot get anything done: one
            person can filibuster any issue.

            Run off elections might be one way to give 3rd party's a
            chance in our system. I have thought as things stand, that a Green
            caucus within the major parties might be the best way to have an
            effect.

            But you have to pick the lint out of your belly buttonn and
            stand up and do something. Democracy only works when citizens
            participate. When they don't, then money fills in for our citizen
            duties.



            --
            Lee Love in Minneapolis
            http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
            "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
            There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
          • Pat Stacy
            Exactly my point in choosing this subject. Almost everyone has a strong opinion of one candidate or another, and anger over at least one issue. The last eight
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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              Exactly my point in choosing this subject. Almost everyone has a strong opinion of one candidate or another, and anger over at least one issue. The last eight years have presented us with so much material.
               
              I'm going to have lunch today with a born-again, fundamentalist Christian Republican. We are political polar opposites and yet we have been friends for 25 years. Our viewpoints are just that---viewpoints.
               
              Thanks for the Hsin Hsin Ming, Richard. Its message is clear and seems so reasonable. But by the time we hear it for the first time, we are already deeply entrenched in opposites with their accompanying emotions. Now what? Is it possible to hold opinions without negativity? How is it possible to avoid making that "smallest distinction"?
               
              I'm signed up to be a poll worker. Will I be able to spend the day in equanimity? What makes a position feel so comfortable or necessary? What happens in my mind when I take a side for or against anything?
               
              Just a lot of questions...
               
              Pat
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] pat?

              Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current
              US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list
              would be disregard of the health of the planet as a whole.

              "The Great Way is not difficult
              for those who have no preferences.
              When love and hate are both absent
              everything becomes clear and undisguised.
              Make the smallest distinction, however,
              and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

              If you wish to see the truth
              then hold no opinions for or against anything.
              To set up what you like against what you dislike
              is the disease of the mind.
              When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
              the minds essential peace is disturbed to no avail."
              from Hsin Hsin Ming

              So how is this possible?

              On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Pat Stacy wrote:

              > I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
              >
              > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
              >
              > Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
              >
              > Pat

            • Lee
              ... Yes. Action is where the reality is, independent of our thought secretions. ... I wish the Republican convention was not so soon after my return. (Just
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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                On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

                > . Our viewpoints are just that---viewpoints.

                Yes. Action is where the reality is, independent of our thought secretions.

                > I'm signed up to be a poll worker. Will I be able to spend the day in
                > equanimity? What makes a position feel so comfortable or necessary? What
                > happens in my mind when I take a side for or against anything?

                I wish the Republican convention was not so soon after my
                return. (Just shaking the jet lag. To many loose ends to tie.)

                A couple days ago, I was telling my young Republican housemate, who
                is moving to do a residency in Missoula, that I'd enjoy being a
                volunteer at the Republican convention.

                I support other people's engagement even if I disagree with their
                veiwpoint. Because in a democracy, citizens must burden their
                responsibilities.

                --
                Lee Love in Minneapolis
                http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
                There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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