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Re: [U-Zendo] Re: pat?

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  • Lee
    I suppose we could initiate a conversation? (8^) Read any good books lately? On the plane, I read half of the book Dog Man: An Uncommon Life on a Faraway
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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      I suppose we could initiate a conversation? (8^) Read any good
      books lately? On the plane, I read half of the book Dog Man: An
      Uncommon Life on a Faraway Mountain He was one of the persons who
      kept the Akita from extinction during WWII.

      We went up to Nikko a couple weeks ago. We found it was only 30km,
      but it was the first time we were up there in 9 years of living in
      Japan. First time we visited we went there right from Narita by
      train with all our luggage and hauled it up the slope of mainstreet to
      the Youth Hostel at the base of the mountain. I guess that help make
      it feel like it was far away.

      I have some photos I will put up.

      --
      Lee Love in Minneapolis
      http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
      "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
      There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
    • Pat Stacy
      I m still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I ve been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism. I
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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        I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
         
        I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
         
        Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
         
        Pat
        ----- Original Message -----
        To: zendo
        Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:32 PM
        Subject: [U-Zendo] pat?

        Has Pat left (what remains of) our list? What a terrible loss! Is anyone
        else still here?

      • Weasel Tracks
        ... I ll have you know, I am not a ghost. I m no more than an illusion.
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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          At 5:01 PM -0500 08/08/28, Franks, Jeffery J wrote:
          >some of us are probably still around; maybe we're ghosts

          I'll have you know, I am not a ghost. I'm no more than an illusion.

          ---Weasel Tracks
        • Lee
          ... Pat, you have always been a proponent of quietism (as opposed to engaged buddhism) here. I think you will do a good job of presenting that point of view.
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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            On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

            > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would
            > not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in
            > our mind when we are engaged in politics.

            Pat, you have always been a proponent of quietism (as opposed to
            engaged buddhism) here. I think you will do a good job of presenting
            that point of view.


            > What opportunity for practice is
            > presented as the election heats up?

            As Nagarjuna explained, it is difficult for people to live the
            spiritual life if they don't have basic necessities. They are only
            struggling to live the next day.

            What things can we support to help create an environment more
            conducive to the spiritual life we enjoy in our privileged position?

            We all have to personally figure out our best way to help.

            --
            Lee Love in Minneapolis
            http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
            "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
            There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
          • Ralph Palmer
            For what it s worth, Richard, I m still here. Mostly lurking. Peace, Ralph ... -- Ralph Palmer Greenfield, MA USA palmer.r.violin@gmail.com
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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              For what it's worth, Richard, I'm still here. Mostly lurking.
               
              Peace,
               
              Ralph

              On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Richard Horvitz <rhorvitz@...> wrote:

              Has Pat left (what remains of) our list? What a terrible loss! Is anyone
              else still here?




              --
              Ralph Palmer
              Greenfield, MA
              USA
              palmer.r.violin@...
            • Lee
              Just watched the last half of Obama s speech. 45 years ago, it was Dr. King s dream. Now, it is reality. Sometimes you need to imagine the impossible
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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                Just watched the last half of Obama's speech. 45 years ago, it was
                Dr. King's dream. Now, it is reality. Sometimes you need to
                imagine the impossible before it becomes possible.



                "I look forward confidently to the day when all who work for a living
                will be one with no thought to their separateness as Negroes, Jews,
                Italians or any other distinctions. This will be the day when we bring
                into full realization the American dream -- a dream yet unfulfilled. A
                dream of equality of opportunity, of privilege and property widely
                distributed; a dream of a land where men will not take necessities
                from the many to give luxuries to the few; a dream of a land where men
                will not argue that the color of a man's skin determines the content
                of his character; a dream of a nation where all our gifts and
                resources are held not for ourselves alone, but as instruments of
                service for the rest of humanity; the dream of a country where every
                man will respect the dignity and worth of the human personality."

                -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
                --
                Lee Love in Minneapolis
                http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
                There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
              • Richard Horvitz
                Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list would be
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 28, 2008
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                  Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current
                  US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list
                  would be disregard of the health of the planet as a whole.

                  "The Great Way is not difficult
                  for those who have no preferences.
                  When love and hate are both absent
                  everything becomes clear and undisguised.
                  Make the smallest distinction, however,
                  and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

                  If you wish to see the truth
                  then hold no opinions for or against anything.
                  To set up what you like against what you dislike
                  is the disease of the mind.
                  When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
                  the minds essential peace is disturbed to no avail."
                  from Hsin Hsin Ming

                  So how is this possible?

                  On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Pat Stacy wrote:

                  > I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
                  >
                  > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
                  >
                  > Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
                  >
                  > Pat
                • Ralph Palmer
                  Hi, Pat - I have no great insights. A few years ago, I first learned about Lebanon s confessional political system, and the fact that it operated for
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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                    Hi, Pat -

                    I have no great insights.

                    A few years ago, I first learned about Lebanon's "confessional" political system, and the fact that it operated for something like 20 years or so with no major conflicts. That got me to thinking about different political systems and some of the unintended consequences of different systems. It seems like the U.S.'s majority rule would almost guarantee conflict, or at least alienation, rather than inclusion : someone has to win and someone has to lose. Of the political systems I've actually seen (not many!), the Friends (Quakers) have the one that seems to actually function and is inclusive. The Friends, however, are a closed group. I don't know how or whether consensus would work in more diverse settings.

                    Ralph

                    On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

                    I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
                     
                    I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
                     
                    Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
                     
                    Pat
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    To: zendo
                    Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:32 PM
                    Subject: [U-Zendo] pat?

                    Has Pat left (what remains of) our list? What a terrible loss! Is anyone
                    else still here?




                    --
                    Ralph Palmer
                    Greenfield, MA
                    USA
                    palmer.r.violin@...
                  • Lee
                    ... Ralph, I have had extensive experience with consensus decision making. I helped start the Greens here in Minnesota. It is one of the big reasons the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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                      On 8/29/08, Ralph Palmer <palmer.r.violin@...> wrote:

                      >, the Friends (Quakers) have the one that seems to actually function and is inclusive.
                      >The Friends, however, are a closed group. I don't know how or whether consensus would
                      > work in more diverse settings.
                      >

                      Ralph,

                      I have had extensive experience with consensus decision making.
                      I helped start the Greens here in Minnesota. It is one of the big
                      reasons the National organization cannot get anything done: one
                      person can filibuster any issue.

                      Run off elections might be one way to give 3rd party's a
                      chance in our system. I have thought as things stand, that a Green
                      caucus within the major parties might be the best way to have an
                      effect.

                      But you have to pick the lint out of your belly buttonn and
                      stand up and do something. Democracy only works when citizens
                      participate. When they don't, then money fills in for our citizen
                      duties.



                      --
                      Lee Love in Minneapolis
                      http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                      "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
                      There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
                    • Pat Stacy
                      Exactly my point in choosing this subject. Almost everyone has a strong opinion of one candidate or another, and anger over at least one issue. The last eight
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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                        Exactly my point in choosing this subject. Almost everyone has a strong opinion of one candidate or another, and anger over at least one issue. The last eight years have presented us with so much material.
                         
                        I'm going to have lunch today with a born-again, fundamentalist Christian Republican. We are political polar opposites and yet we have been friends for 25 years. Our viewpoints are just that---viewpoints.
                         
                        Thanks for the Hsin Hsin Ming, Richard. Its message is clear and seems so reasonable. But by the time we hear it for the first time, we are already deeply entrenched in opposites with their accompanying emotions. Now what? Is it possible to hold opinions without negativity? How is it possible to avoid making that "smallest distinction"?
                         
                        I'm signed up to be a poll worker. Will I be able to spend the day in equanimity? What makes a position feel so comfortable or necessary? What happens in my mind when I take a side for or against anything?
                         
                        Just a lot of questions...
                         
                        Pat
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:43 PM
                        Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] pat?

                        Truly it is a challenge. There are numerous policies of the current
                        US administration that make me very angry. Number one in a lengthly list
                        would be disregard of the health of the planet as a whole.

                        "The Great Way is not difficult
                        for those who have no preferences.
                        When love and hate are both absent
                        everything becomes clear and undisguised.
                        Make the smallest distinction, however,
                        and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

                        If you wish to see the truth
                        then hold no opinions for or against anything.
                        To set up what you like against what you dislike
                        is the disease of the mind.
                        When the deep meaning of things is not understood,
                        the minds essential peace is disturbed to no avail."
                        from Hsin Hsin Ming

                        So how is this possible?

                        On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Pat Stacy wrote:

                        > I'm still here. I have trouble giving up on a list that I've been on for so long. I keep thinking someone will eventually want to talk about Buddhism.
                        >
                        > I volunteered to give a talk on Buddhism and politics next month. This would not be from the viewpoint of engaged Buddhism but more what is happening in our mind when we are engaged in politics. What opportunity for practice is presented as the election heats up?
                        >
                        > Any ideas? Anyone passionate about politics?
                        >
                        > Pat

                      • Lee
                        ... Yes. Action is where the reality is, independent of our thought secretions. ... I wish the Republican convention was not so soon after my return. (Just
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 29, 2008
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                          On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

                          > . Our viewpoints are just that---viewpoints.

                          Yes. Action is where the reality is, independent of our thought secretions.

                          > I'm signed up to be a poll worker. Will I be able to spend the day in
                          > equanimity? What makes a position feel so comfortable or necessary? What
                          > happens in my mind when I take a side for or against anything?

                          I wish the Republican convention was not so soon after my
                          return. (Just shaking the jet lag. To many loose ends to tie.)

                          A couple days ago, I was telling my young Republican housemate, who
                          is moving to do a residency in Missoula, that I'd enjoy being a
                          volunteer at the Republican convention.

                          I support other people's engagement even if I disagree with their
                          veiwpoint. Because in a democracy, citizens must burden their
                          responsibilities.

                          --
                          Lee Love in Minneapolis
                          http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                          "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
                          There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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