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Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo

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  • Lee
    ... I think the Walmart approach to spirituality is doomed to failure. But you can use BUddhist practice as a model to get back to a practice orientation in
    Message 1 of 27 , May 8, 2008
      On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:
      > At 9:38 AM -0500 08/05/08, Lee wrote:

      > Most ancient traditions have worthwhile practice lore to them.
      > Catholics and Protestants are rediscovering their contemplative
      > traditions through Zen, among other spiritualities. It tickles me to
      > see Catholics and Anglicans in contemplative prayer, with their hands
      > in perfect zazen mudra!

      I think the Walmart approach to spirituality is doomed to
      failure. But you can use BUddhist practice as a model to get back
      to a practice orientation in any tradition.


      >
      > That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
      > should stay in the religions of their birth.

      That is what he said, explicitly. Buddhism is not an
      evangelical/proselytizing tradition.

      > And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
      > Gospel," for example.

      It would not enter my mind to tell Tina Turner to leave
      Nichiren Shoshu. It isn't a Buddhist perspective to do so, but one
      embedded in us from our Puritan roots.

      --
      李 Lee Love 大
      愛      鱗
      in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

      "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
      difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
      make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
    • Weasel Tracks
      ... I know. I disagree both with that bald statement and with people who use it to make a point that people should stay in their religion of birth, whether
      Message 2 of 27 , May 9, 2008
        At 1:20 AM -0500 08/05/09, Lee wrote:
        >On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Weasel Tracks
        ><weaseltrax@...> wrote:
        >
        > > That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
        > > should stay in the religions of their birth.
        >
        >That is what he said, explicitly.

        I know. I disagree both with that bald statement and with people who
        use it to make a point that people should stay in their religion of
        birth, whether they agree with it or not, whether they find it
        helpful or not.

        Don't tell me HHDL is appalled at the spread of Vajrayana to the West
        amongst Jews and Christians.

        >Buddhism is not an
        >evangelical/proselytizing tradition.

        Yet there is outreach. There have been Buddhist missionaries, however
        unpushy, since at least Ashoka's time.

        However, one reason I liked the old Chicago temple where I first
        learned Soto Zen, was that it was very non-missionary. The atitude
        was that, if the priest and his disciples have anything of value,
        perceptive people with compatible karma would come and learn. The
        priest still spoke in various venues to spread the knowledge of
        Buddhism in general and Zen in particular.

        And so we place notices of zazen meetings and write articles for
        local publications, to see if anyone might think they might benefit
        from the Dharma. We would be stingy with our Dharma assets.

        The attitudes of Christian proselytizers often blows my mind. They
        seem to think that if they tell you you are going to hell loud
        enough, they might scare you into salvation. Sometimes, with some
        people, that works to enslave them to a Gospel of fear and a preacher
        of domination.

        Unless they belong to a religion for ignoble purposes, like politics,
        love, or money, people believe that their religion is best, truest,
        and the surest source of happiness. If they did not, they would look
        for one they could believe that of. As Buddhists, we also believe
        that Buddhism is the clearest approach to how things actually are. I
        think that's actually true, but, of course, I would. Believing this,
        should I not try to benefit whomever I can with exposure to the
        Dharma?

        At the Pioneer Valley Zendo on the Mohawk Trail is a hand-carved box
        for donations. Above it is a sign that says, "Donations are never
        requested, nor are they refused." The attitude to spreading Buddhism
        should be like that.

        > > And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
        >> Gospel," for example.
        >
        > It would not enter my mind to tell Tina Turner to leave
        >Nichiren Shoshu.

        Why would it? Nichiren Buddhism is wholesome compared to "Prosperity
        Gospel" or Scientology.

        But if Tina asked you about zazen or how zennies understand reality,
        wouldn't you tell her?

        >It isn't a Buddhist perspective to do so, but one
        >embedded in us from our Puritan roots.

        I don't have Puritan roots. I was born in Europe of Orthodox Christian parents.

        ---Weasel Tracks
      • LouAnne Jaeger
        Walmart meaning picking and choosing the parts that you like? I agree with you on that, Lee. I don t understand how people make it work for themselves, but
        Message 3 of 27 , May 9, 2008
          Walmart meaning picking and choosing the parts that you like?

          I agree with you on that, Lee.  I don't understand how people make
          it work for themselves, but some seem to.  I guess people just need
          practice at different levels (although using the term "level" sounds
          snooty and I don't mean to).

          LA



          2008/5/9 Lee <togeika@...>:

          On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:
          > At 9:38 AM -0500 08/05/08, Lee wrote:

          > Most ancient traditions have worthwhile practice lore to them.
          > Catholics and Protestants are rediscovering their contemplative
          > traditions through Zen, among other spiritualities. It tickles me to
          > see Catholics and Anglicans in contemplative prayer, with their hands
          > in perfect zazen mudra!

          I think the Walmart approach to spirituality is doomed to
          failure. But you can use BUddhist practice as a model to get back
          to a practice orientation in any tradition.


          >
          > That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
          > should stay in the religions of their birth.

          That is what he said, explicitly. Buddhism is not an
          evangelical/proselytizing tradition.


          > And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
          > Gospel," for example.

          It would not enter my mind to tell Tina Turner to leave
          Nichiren Shoshu. It isn't a Buddhist perspective to do so, but one
          embedded in us from our Puritan roots.


          --
          李 Lee Love 大
          愛      鱗
          in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

          "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
          difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
          make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)

        • Lee
          ... I understand. I am the same in response to dogmatism, parochialism and people who use it. Kudos to Pat s teacher for being so magnanimous (that is where
          Message 4 of 27 , May 9, 2008
            On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:

            > I know. I disagree both with that bald statement and with people who
            > use it to make a point that people should stay in their religion of
            > birth, whether they agree with it or not, whether they find it
            > helpful or not.

            I understand. I am the same in response to dogmatism, parochialism
            and people who use it. Kudos to Pat's teacher for being so
            magnanimous (that is where this all started: Buddhism's general lack
            of proslytizing, etc. Any of it that has been implemented is a new
            thing we have put on it.)

            > Don't tell me HHDL is appalled at the spread of Vajrayana to the West
            > amongst Jews and Christians.

            You misunderstand what he says (and how people use it.)
            Tibetan Buddhism has spread because of the diaspora. I am positive,
            he'd rather have Tibetan culture not facing genocide rather than have
            its people scattered across the world

            Please listen to this. "One should remain with one's own
            original faith." You cannot misunderstand what he explicitly says :

            http://ourmedia.org/node/314045

            But he also says it is important to learn about other's
            traditions. These two attitudes are essential in order to stop
            colonialism and fake wars between the 3 related major traditions.

            The truth is at the core of all spiritual experience. It
            is found beyond dogma and orthodox religion.

            --
            李 Lee Love 大
            愛      鱗
            in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

            "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
            difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
            make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
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