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Book Promo

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  • Pat Stacy
    Dear U-Zendo members, It has been two and a half years since my teacher, Jay DuPont, Roshi, died. I spent the year after he died writing a book about how he
    Message 1 of 27 , May 4, 2008

      Dear U-Zendo members,

       

      It has been two and a half years since my teacher, Jay DuPont, Roshi, died. I spent the year after he died writing a book about how he taught me Buddhism. Over the twenty-three years I studied with him I made notes, jotting down quotes of something he said during a private guidance session or the public question-and-answer talks each Sunday morning.

       

      The significance of the few sparse quotes would be obvious to a student of Roshi’s, someone who knew his teaching by heart, and had applied it to her life. But so much is missing if all we are left with is an answer, not what lead up to the question and what happened when the answer was applied to the problem. Buddhist teaching is able to stand on its own, but in that bare state it is often incomprehensible or completely misunderstood. I wanted to explain what Roshi meant and what his teaching meant to me. Roshi’s answers were life changing because Buddhism is life changing, and Roshi taught Buddhism.

       

      I titled this book, The Best-Kept Secret (Is the One We Keep From Ourselves). It has my original pen and ink drawings and a few photographs. I’m offering it for $25, which includes postage in the U.S. The entire amount (minus the postage) will be donated to Vichara Monastery. If anyone is interested, please email me at:  pstacy@...  for more information. I am willing to mail outside the U.S. with additional postage added.

       

      Here’s a quote from a priest at the monastery:  “Pat, I simply can't tell you how meaningful and helpful your book is to me.  It brings back so much, brings so much alive, reminds me of things that had been allowed to fade, helps me remember why this practice is my choice, and more.”

       

      I hope this book will speak encouragement to everyone who reads it. If it does, that will be the voice of my teacher, Jay DuPont, Roshi, his teacher, Nyogen Senzaki, and all Bodhisattvas who have transmitted Buddhism to this day.

       

      Pat

       

       

       

    • Richard Horvitz
      So I look at Amazon to see what you offer there, and I am guessing that it is a different Pat Stacy, but one never knows. Were you John Wayne s companion?
      Message 2 of 27 , May 5, 2008
        So I look at Amazon to see what you offer there, and I am guessing that it
        is a different Pat Stacy, but one never knows. Were you John Wayne's
        companion?
      • Lee
        I thought of it too Richard. Self published books can be sold there. I found Mashiko Shards there, which let me to the author s sending me her Doctoral
        Message 3 of 27 , May 5, 2008
          I thought of it too Richard. Self published books can be sold there.
          I found Mashiko Shards there, which let me to the author's sending
          me her Doctoral Thesis on the transformation of the Mashiko Artisan
          potter into the Artist potter. It was from the '70s and very helpful
          to my writing my book and presentations on Zen and Craft Practice.

          You can see the poetry book here, it is self-published:

          https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mashiko+shards

          On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Richard Horvitz <rhorvitz@...> wrote:
          > So I look at Amazon to see what you offer there, and I am guessing that it
          > is a different Pat Stacy, but one never knows. Were you John Wayne's
          > companion?
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          --
          --
          李 Lee Love 大
          愛      鱗
          in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

          "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
          difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
          make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
        • Pat Stacy
          Hi Richard, No, it s not listed on Amazon. I ve done all the work myself, and am donating all the proceeds to the monastery. I get phone calls and letters from
          Message 4 of 27 , May 5, 2008
            Hi Richard,
             
            No, it's not listed on Amazon. I've done all the work myself, and am donating all the proceeds to the monastery.
             
            I get phone calls and letters from people who are trying to find the Pat Stacy that was John Wayne's friend at the end of his life. It has led to many interesting conversations, but I always have to tell people that I don't know who or where she is.
             
            Pat
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:29 AM
            Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo

            So I look at Amazon to see what you offer there, and I am guessing that it
            is a different Pat Stacy, but one never knows. Were you John Wayne's
            companion?

          • Lee
            ... Pat, You can list it on Amazon. It is a great way to get your book into circulation. Folks here could review it at Amazon and get positive
            Message 5 of 27 , May 7, 2008
              On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi Richard,
              >
              > No, it's not listed on Amazon. I've done all the work myself, and am
              > donating all the proceeds to the monastery.

              Pat,

              You can list it on Amazon. It is a great way to get your
              book into circulation. Folks here could review it at Amazon and get
              positive discussion going about it at Amazon, which could generate
              interest.
              --
              李 Lee Love 大
              愛      鱗
              in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

              "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
              difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
              make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
            • Pat Stacy
              Hi Lee, I want all the proceeds to go to the monastery, none to Amazon. That was the reason I did it myself. But I ll consider your suggestion. Pat ... From:
              Message 6 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                Hi Lee,
                I want all the proceeds to go to the monastery, none to Amazon. That was the reason I did it myself. But I'll consider your suggestion.
                Pat
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Lee
                Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:59 AM
                Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo

                On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Richard,
                >
                > No, it's not listed on Amazon. I've done all the work myself, and am
                > donating all the proceeds to the monastery.

                Pat,

                You can list it on Amazon. It is a great way to get your
                book into circulation. Folks here could review it at Amazon and get
                positive discussion going about it at Amazon, which could generate
                interest.
                --
                李 Lee Love 大
                愛      鱗
                in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots. blogspot. com/

                "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)

              • Lee
                Amazon s charge is very reasonable, less than what a retailer would take. Since Ebay s rates went up, many folks are switching to Amazon for sales. It is
                Message 7 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                  Amazon's charge is very reasonable, less than what a retailer would
                  take. Since Ebay's rates went up, many folks are switching to Amazon
                  for sales. It is an investment to increase visibiliity and sales.

                  Lee

                  On 5/7/08, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Lee,
                  > I want all the proceeds to go to the monastery, none to Amazon. That was the
                  > reason I did it myself. But I'll consider your suggestion.
                  > Pat
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Lee
                  > To: U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:59 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Richard,
                  > >
                  > > No, it's not listed on Amazon. I've done all the work myself, and am
                  > > donating all the proceeds to the monastery.
                  >
                  > Pat,
                  >
                  > You can list it on Amazon. It is a great way to get your
                  > book into circulation. Folks here could review it at Amazon and get
                  > positive discussion going about it at Amazon, which could generate
                  > interest.
                  > --
                  > 李 Lee Love 大
                  > 愛      鱗
                  > in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                  >
                  > "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                  > difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                  > make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                  >


                  --
                  --
                  李 Lee Love 大
                  愛      鱗
                  in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                  "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                  difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                  make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                • Jane Lago
                  For self-published books, Amazon keeps 55% of the sale price. That s hardly reasonable by anyone s standards.
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                    For self-published books, Amazon keeps 55% of the sale
                    price. That's hardly reasonable by anyone's standards.

                    --- Lee <togeika@...> wrote:

                    > Amazon's charge is very reasonable, less than what a
                    > retailer would
                    > take. Since Ebay's rates went up, many folks are
                    > switching to Amazon
                    > for sales. It is an investment to increase
                    > visibiliity and sales.
                    >
                    > Lee
                    >
                    > On 5/7/08, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Lee,
                    > > I want all the proceeds to go to the monastery,
                    > none to Amazon. That was the
                    > > reason I did it myself. But I'll consider your
                    > suggestion.
                    > > Pat
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Lee
                    > > To: U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:59 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Pat Stacy
                    > <pstacy@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Richard,
                    > > >
                    > > > No, it's not listed on Amazon. I've done all the
                    > work myself, and am
                    > > > donating all the proceeds to the monastery.
                    > >
                    > > Pat,
                    > >
                    > > You can list it on Amazon. It is a great way to
                    > get your
                    > > book into circulation. Folks here could review it
                    > at Amazon and get
                    > > positive discussion going about it at Amazon,
                    > which could generate
                    > > interest.
                    > > --
                    > > Íû Lee Love Âç
                    > > °¦¡¡¡¡ ¡¡¡¡ ÎÚ
                    > > in Minneapolis
                    > 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                    > >
                    > > "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his
                    > heart) that makes the
                    > > difference. If you don't have it in the heart,
                    > nothing you make will
                    > > make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to
                    > Dean Schwarz)
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > --
                    > Íû Lee Love Âç
                    > °¦¡¡¡¡ ¡¡¡¡ ÎÚ
                    > in Minneapolis
                    > 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                    >
                    > "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his
                    > heart) that makes the
                    > difference. If you don't have it in the heart,
                    > nothing you make will
                    > make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to
                    > Dean Schwarz)
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Lee
                    ... I suppose an officially other-published situation would make more sense. -- $BM{(B Lee Love $BBg(B $B0&!!!!(B $B!!!!(B $BNZ(B in Minneapolis
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                      On 5/7/08, Jane Lago <jlago@...> wrote:
                      > For self-published books, Amazon keeps 55% of the sale
                      > price. That's hardly reasonable by anyone's standards.
                      >

                      I suppose an "officially" other-published situation would make more sense.

                      --
                      李 Lee Love 大
                      愛      鱗
                      in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                      "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                      difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                      make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                    • Lee
                      ... Jane, I was just looking. Are you sure about the charges? At claycenter righ now. Can t wade through the info. Another way is to list via Google
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                        On 5/7/08, Lee <togeika@...> wrote:
                        > On 5/7/08, Jane Lago <jlago@...> wrote:
                        > > For self-published books, Amazon keeps 55% of the sale
                        > > price. That's hardly reasonable by anyone's standards.
                        > >
                        >

                        Jane, I was just looking. Are you sure about the charges? At
                        claycenter righ now. Can't wade through the info.

                        Another way is to list via Google Shopping cart. They are
                        cheaper than Ebay.

                        --
                        李 Lee Love 大
                        愛      鱗
                        in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                        "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                        difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                        make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                      • LouAnne Jaeger
                        Not sure what you mean by this....
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                          Not sure what you mean by this....


                          2008/5/7 Lee <togeika@...>:

                          On 5/7/08, Jane Lago <jlago@...> wrote:
                          > For self-published books, Amazon keeps 55% of the sale
                          > price. That's hardly reasonable by anyone's standards.
                          >

                          I suppose an "officially" other-published situation would make more sense.

                          --
                          李 Lee Love 大
                          愛      鱗

                          in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                          "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                          difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                          make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)

                        • Scott Hutton
                          I think it means not self published. I m not sure, but Amazon does not require being the only retailer of the book. Did you get the printing contracted out? If
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                            I think it means not self published.
                            I'm not sure, but Amazon does not require being the only retailer of the
                            book.
                            Did you get the printing contracted out? If you did, I wouldn't be
                            surprised if they had some pretty useful info. I guess it depends on the
                            size of the company, etc..

                            Scott
                            On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 14:35 -0400, LouAnne Jaeger wrote:
                            > I suppose an "officially" other-published situation would make more
                            > sense.

                            Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                          • Lee
                            ... They don t take that big a cut on non-self published books. I didn t have time to look, but I think they will publish you if you send them the text. The
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 7, 2008
                              2008/5/7 LouAnne Jaeger <louannejaeger@...>:
                              >
                              > Not sure what you mean by this....

                              They don't take that big a cut on non-self published books.
                              I didn't have time to look, but I think they will publish you if you
                              send them the text. The big cut makes sense for that. I can't
                              imagine the author of Shards paying them 55% just to list her book.
                              --
                              李 Lee Love 大
                              愛      鱗
                              in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                              "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                              difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                              make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                            • LouAnne Jaeger
                              Well, regardless, I received my copy of the book last night and quickly read 50 pages of it. It s quite wonderful. Pat, I particularly enjoyed the chapter in
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                Well, regardless, I received my copy of the book last night and quickly
                                read 50 pages of it.  It's quite wonderful. 

                                Pat, I particularly enjoyed the chapter in which Roshi tells you to re-explore,
                                your Catholic roots!

                                LA



                                On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Scott Hutton <scott_1971_h@...> wrote:

                                I think it means not self published.
                                I'm not sure, but Amazon does not require being the only retailer of the
                                book.
                                Did you get the printing contracted out? If you did, I wouldn't be
                                surprised if they had some pretty useful info. I guess it depends on the
                                size of the company, etc..

                                Scott


                                On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 14:35 -0400, LouAnne Jaeger wrote:
                                > I suppose an "officially" other-published situation would make more
                                > sense.

                                Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

                              • Pat Stacy
                                It was such an odd thing for a Buddhist teacher to tell his student. He told me that if I didn t do it, I would never be able to help anyone else. I thought,
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                  It was such an odd thing for a Buddhist teacher to tell his student. He told me that if I didn't do it, I would never be able to help anyone else. I thought, "Well, if I'm not interested in helping anyone else, can I just skip this?" I really did not want to open up that part of my life to any scrutiny, mine or his.
                                   
                                  Pat 
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:58 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo

                                  Well, regardless, I received my copy of the book last night and quickly
                                  read 50 pages of it.  It's quite wonderful. 

                                  Pat, I particularly enjoyed the chapter in which Roshi tells you to re-explore,
                                  your Catholic roots!

                                  LA



                                  On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Scott Hutton <scott_1971_h@ yahoo.com. au> wrote:

                                  I think it means not self published.
                                  I'm not sure, but Amazon does not require being the only retailer of the
                                  book.
                                  Did you get the printing contracted out? If you did, I wouldn't be
                                  surprised if they had some pretty useful info. I guess it depends on the
                                  size of the company, etc..

                                  Scott


                                  On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 14:35 -0400, LouAnne Jaeger wrote:
                                  > I suppose an "officially" other-published situation would make more
                                  > sense.

                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .yahoo.com

                                • LouAnne Jaeger
                                  Yes, odd, but it allowed you to sort of fuse both parts of your life together. More wise than odd, I d say!
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                    Yes, odd, but it allowed you to sort of fuse both parts of your life together.
                                    More wise than odd, I'd say!


                                    On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:

                                    It was such an odd thing for a Buddhist teacher to tell his student. He told me that if I didn't do it, I would never be able to help anyone else. I thought, "Well, if I'm not interested in helping anyone else, can I just skip this?" I really did not want to open up that part of my life to any scrutiny, mine or his.
                                     
                                    Pat 
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:58 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo

                                    Well, regardless, I received my copy of the book last night and quickly
                                    read 50 pages of it.  It's quite wonderful. 

                                    Pat, I particularly enjoyed the chapter in which Roshi tells you to re-explore,
                                    your Catholic roots!

                                    LA



                                    On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Scott Hutton <scott_1971_h@...> wrote:

                                    I think it means not self published.
                                    I'm not sure, but Amazon does not require being the only retailer of the
                                    book.
                                    Did you get the printing contracted out? If you did, I wouldn't be
                                    surprised if they had some pretty useful info. I guess it depends on the
                                    size of the company, etc..

                                    Scott


                                    On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 14:35 -0400, LouAnne Jaeger wrote:
                                    > I suppose an "officially" other-published situation would make more
                                    > sense.

                                    Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com


                                  • Lee
                                    ... I think it is pretty standard. Katagiri offered similar advice. The Dalai Lama goes a step further saying that we probably should leave the tradition
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                      On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:28 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It was such an odd thing for a Buddhist teacher to tell his student.

                                      I think it is pretty standard. Katagiri offered similar
                                      advice. The Dalai Lama goes a step further saying that we probably
                                      should leave the tradition we grew up in. That makes a lot of sense
                                      for most people, because we tend to keep those early beliefs. Our
                                      views on shunyata often verge on nihilism/materialism.

                                      What I would like to see is the various traditions
                                      re-establishing their mystical schools. As Huston Smith says,
                                      while orthodox people in the various tradtions see there tradtions as
                                      separate and superior to all other traditions, the mystics all tend to
                                      agree.

                                      That is the difference between direct spiritual experience and rote dogma.

                                      --
                                      李 Lee Love 大
                                      愛      鱗
                                      in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                      "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                      difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                      make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                                    • Lee
                                      ... sorry, this should read we probably shouldn t leave the tradition we grew up in. This is also related to Buddhism non-proselytizing nature. There has
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                        2008/5/8 Lee <togeika@...>:

                                        > I think it is pretty standard. Katagiri offered similar
                                        > advice. The Dalai Lama goes a step further saying that we probably
                                        > should leave the tradition we grew up in.

                                        sorry, this should read "we probably shouldn't leave the tradition we
                                        grew up in."

                                        This is also related to Buddhism non-proselytizing nature.
                                        There has never been a Buddhist "Holy" War.
                                        --
                                        李 Lee Love 大
                                        愛      鱗
                                        in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                        "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                        difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                        make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                                      • LouAnne Jaeger
                                        Oops - I know you meant to say that the Dalai Lama says people ought to _stay_ with our birth-tradition... You ll have to read the book, but the specific
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                          Oops - I know you meant to say that the Dalai Lama says people
                                          ought to _stay_ with our birth-tradition...

                                          You'll have to read the book, but the specific advice that he gives
                                          Pat on how to re-live her Catholic days is quite ingenious.



                                          2008/5/8 Lee <togeika@...>:

                                          On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:28 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > It was such an odd thing for a Buddhist teacher to tell his student.

                                          I think it is pretty standard. Katagiri offered similar
                                          advice. The Dalai Lama goes a step further saying that we probably
                                          should leave the tradition we grew up in. That makes a lot of sense
                                          for most people, because we tend to keep those early beliefs. Our
                                          views on shunyata often verge on nihilism/materialism.

                                          What I would like to see is the various traditions
                                          re-establishing their mystical schools. As Huston Smith says,
                                          while orthodox people in the various tradtions see there tradtions as
                                          separate and superior to all other traditions, the mystics all tend to
                                          agree.

                                          That is the difference between direct spiritual experience and rote dogma.


                                          --
                                          李 Lee Love 大
                                          愛      鱗
                                          in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                          "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                          difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                          make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)

                                        • Pat Stacy
                                          Lee, why do all your posts make a little box appear that asks me to install a language pack? Then, when anyone responds to you, that box appears again because
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                            Lee, why do all your posts make a little box appear that asks me to install a language pack? Then, when anyone responds to you, that box appears again because your post is included in their response. Can you remove whatever little foreign language things you have put on your posts?
                                            Thank you,
                                            Pat
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Lee
                                            Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:38 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Book Promo

                                            On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:28 AM, Pat Stacy <pstacy@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > It was such an odd thing for a Buddhist teacher to tell his student.

                                            I think it is pretty standard. Katagiri offered similar
                                            advice. The Dalai Lama goes a step further saying that we probably
                                            should leave the tradition we grew up in. That makes a lot of sense
                                            for most people, because we tend to keep those early beliefs. Our
                                            views on shunyata often verge on nihilism/materialis m.

                                            What I would like to see is the various traditions
                                            re-establishing their mystical schools. As Huston Smith says,
                                            while orthodox people in the various tradtions see there tradtions as
                                            separate and superior to all other traditions, the mystics all tend to
                                            agree.

                                            That is the difference between direct spiritual experience and rote dogma.

                                            --
                                            李 Lee Love 大
                                            愛      鱗
                                            in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots. blogspot. com/

                                            "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                            difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                            make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)

                                          • Lee
                                            ... You don t have the language pack installed. Pretty important on the internet and any international mailing list. -- Lee Love in Minneapolis
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                              2008/5/8 Pat Stacy <pstacy@...>:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Lee, why do all your posts make a little box appear that asks me to install
                                              > a language pack?

                                              You don't have the language pack installed. Pretty important on the
                                              internet and any international mailing list.

                                              --
                                              Lee Love

                                              in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                              "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                              difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                              make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                                            • Weasel Tracks
                                              ... Most ancient traditions have worthwhile practice lore to them. Catholics and Protestants are rediscovering their contemplative traditions through Zen,
                                              Message 22 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                                At 9:38 AM -0500 08/05/08, Lee wrote:
                                                >The Dalai Lama goes a step further saying that we probably
                                                >should [not] leave the tradition we grew up in. That makes a lot of sense
                                                >for most people, because we tend to keep those early beliefs.

                                                Most ancient traditions have worthwhile practice lore to them.
                                                Catholics and Protestants are rediscovering their contemplative
                                                traditions through Zen, among other spiritualities. It tickles me to
                                                see Catholics and Anglicans in contemplative prayer, with their hands
                                                in perfect zazen mudra!

                                                That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
                                                should stay in the religions of their birth. If a person is
                                                dissatisfied with their spiritual fare, they have a perfect right to
                                                look elsewhere. I notice Christian missionaries having no qualms
                                                about trying to spread Christianity.

                                                It was only after I was a Buddhist for a couple of decades that I
                                                realized the depth of my parents' religion, Eastern Orthodoxy.
                                                Nonetheless, I am grateful for being on the Buddha Marga, first and
                                                foremost. It clarifies everything else.

                                                And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
                                                Gospel," for example.

                                                ---Weasel Tracks
                                              • Scott Hutton
                                                That will probably be because Lee s emails are encoded with a Japanese language pack (right Lee???) You don t absolutely have to install it unless Lee sends an
                                                Message 23 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                                  That will probably be because Lee's emails are encoded with a Japanese
                                                  language pack (right Lee???)
                                                  You don't absolutely have to install it unless Lee sends an email in
                                                  Japanese (and he'd better not...)

                                                  Scott
                                                  On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 10:17 -0500, Lee wrote:
                                                  > 2008/5/8 Pat Stacy <pstacy@...>:
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Lee, why do all your posts make a little box appear that asks me to
                                                  > install
                                                  > > a language pack?
                                                  >
                                                  > You don't have the language pack installed. Pretty important on the
                                                  > internet and any international mailing list.
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  > Lee Love
                                                  >
                                                  > in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
                                                  >
                                                  > "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                                  > difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                                  > make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >

                                                  Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                                                • Lee
                                                  ... I think the Walmart approach to spirituality is doomed to failure. But you can use BUddhist practice as a model to get back to a practice orientation in
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , May 8, 2008
                                                    On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:
                                                    > At 9:38 AM -0500 08/05/08, Lee wrote:

                                                    > Most ancient traditions have worthwhile practice lore to them.
                                                    > Catholics and Protestants are rediscovering their contemplative
                                                    > traditions through Zen, among other spiritualities. It tickles me to
                                                    > see Catholics and Anglicans in contemplative prayer, with their hands
                                                    > in perfect zazen mudra!

                                                    I think the Walmart approach to spirituality is doomed to
                                                    failure. But you can use BUddhist practice as a model to get back
                                                    to a practice orientation in any tradition.


                                                    >
                                                    > That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
                                                    > should stay in the religions of their birth.

                                                    That is what he said, explicitly. Buddhism is not an
                                                    evangelical/proselytizing tradition.

                                                    > And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
                                                    > Gospel," for example.

                                                    It would not enter my mind to tell Tina Turner to leave
                                                    Nichiren Shoshu. It isn't a Buddhist perspective to do so, but one
                                                    embedded in us from our Puritan roots.

                                                    --
                                                    李 Lee Love 大
                                                    愛      鱗
                                                    in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                                    "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                                    difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                                    make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
                                                  • Weasel Tracks
                                                    ... I know. I disagree both with that bald statement and with people who use it to make a point that people should stay in their religion of birth, whether
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , May 9, 2008
                                                      At 1:20 AM -0500 08/05/09, Lee wrote:
                                                      >On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Weasel Tracks
                                                      ><weaseltrax@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
                                                      > > should stay in the religions of their birth.
                                                      >
                                                      >That is what he said, explicitly.

                                                      I know. I disagree both with that bald statement and with people who
                                                      use it to make a point that people should stay in their religion of
                                                      birth, whether they agree with it or not, whether they find it
                                                      helpful or not.

                                                      Don't tell me HHDL is appalled at the spread of Vajrayana to the West
                                                      amongst Jews and Christians.

                                                      >Buddhism is not an
                                                      >evangelical/proselytizing tradition.

                                                      Yet there is outreach. There have been Buddhist missionaries, however
                                                      unpushy, since at least Ashoka's time.

                                                      However, one reason I liked the old Chicago temple where I first
                                                      learned Soto Zen, was that it was very non-missionary. The atitude
                                                      was that, if the priest and his disciples have anything of value,
                                                      perceptive people with compatible karma would come and learn. The
                                                      priest still spoke in various venues to spread the knowledge of
                                                      Buddhism in general and Zen in particular.

                                                      And so we place notices of zazen meetings and write articles for
                                                      local publications, to see if anyone might think they might benefit
                                                      from the Dharma. We would be stingy with our Dharma assets.

                                                      The attitudes of Christian proselytizers often blows my mind. They
                                                      seem to think that if they tell you you are going to hell loud
                                                      enough, they might scare you into salvation. Sometimes, with some
                                                      people, that works to enslave them to a Gospel of fear and a preacher
                                                      of domination.

                                                      Unless they belong to a religion for ignoble purposes, like politics,
                                                      love, or money, people believe that their religion is best, truest,
                                                      and the surest source of happiness. If they did not, they would look
                                                      for one they could believe that of. As Buddhists, we also believe
                                                      that Buddhism is the clearest approach to how things actually are. I
                                                      think that's actually true, but, of course, I would. Believing this,
                                                      should I not try to benefit whomever I can with exposure to the
                                                      Dharma?

                                                      At the Pioneer Valley Zendo on the Mohawk Trail is a hand-carved box
                                                      for donations. Above it is a sign that says, "Donations are never
                                                      requested, nor are they refused." The attitude to spreading Buddhism
                                                      should be like that.

                                                      > > And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
                                                      >> Gospel," for example.
                                                      >
                                                      > It would not enter my mind to tell Tina Turner to leave
                                                      >Nichiren Shoshu.

                                                      Why would it? Nichiren Buddhism is wholesome compared to "Prosperity
                                                      Gospel" or Scientology.

                                                      But if Tina asked you about zazen or how zennies understand reality,
                                                      wouldn't you tell her?

                                                      >It isn't a Buddhist perspective to do so, but one
                                                      >embedded in us from our Puritan roots.

                                                      I don't have Puritan roots. I was born in Europe of Orthodox Christian parents.

                                                      ---Weasel Tracks
                                                    • LouAnne Jaeger
                                                      Walmart meaning picking and choosing the parts that you like? I agree with you on that, Lee. I don t understand how people make it work for themselves, but
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , May 9, 2008
                                                        Walmart meaning picking and choosing the parts that you like?

                                                        I agree with you on that, Lee.  I don't understand how people make
                                                        it work for themselves, but some seem to.  I guess people just need
                                                        practice at different levels (although using the term "level" sounds
                                                        snooty and I don't mean to).

                                                        LA



                                                        2008/5/9 Lee <togeika@...>:

                                                        On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:
                                                        > At 9:38 AM -0500 08/05/08, Lee wrote:

                                                        > Most ancient traditions have worthwhile practice lore to them.
                                                        > Catholics and Protestants are rediscovering their contemplative
                                                        > traditions through Zen, among other spiritualities. It tickles me to
                                                        > see Catholics and Anglicans in contemplative prayer, with their hands
                                                        > in perfect zazen mudra!

                                                        I think the Walmart approach to spirituality is doomed to
                                                        failure. But you can use BUddhist practice as a model to get back
                                                        to a practice orientation in any tradition.


                                                        >
                                                        > That said, I disagree with those that quote HHDL to say that people
                                                        > should stay in the religions of their birth.

                                                        That is what he said, explicitly. Buddhism is not an
                                                        evangelical/proselytizing tradition.


                                                        > And there are religions people *should* leave . . . "Prosperity
                                                        > Gospel," for example.

                                                        It would not enter my mind to tell Tina Turner to leave
                                                        Nichiren Shoshu. It isn't a Buddhist perspective to do so, but one
                                                        embedded in us from our Puritan roots.


                                                        --
                                                        李 Lee Love 大
                                                        愛      鱗
                                                        in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                                        "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                                        difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                                        make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)

                                                      • Lee
                                                        ... I understand. I am the same in response to dogmatism, parochialism and people who use it. Kudos to Pat s teacher for being so magnanimous (that is where
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , May 9, 2008
                                                          On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:

                                                          > I know. I disagree both with that bald statement and with people who
                                                          > use it to make a point that people should stay in their religion of
                                                          > birth, whether they agree with it or not, whether they find it
                                                          > helpful or not.

                                                          I understand. I am the same in response to dogmatism, parochialism
                                                          and people who use it. Kudos to Pat's teacher for being so
                                                          magnanimous (that is where this all started: Buddhism's general lack
                                                          of proslytizing, etc. Any of it that has been implemented is a new
                                                          thing we have put on it.)

                                                          > Don't tell me HHDL is appalled at the spread of Vajrayana to the West
                                                          > amongst Jews and Christians.

                                                          You misunderstand what he says (and how people use it.)
                                                          Tibetan Buddhism has spread because of the diaspora. I am positive,
                                                          he'd rather have Tibetan culture not facing genocide rather than have
                                                          its people scattered across the world

                                                          Please listen to this. "One should remain with one's own
                                                          original faith." You cannot misunderstand what he explicitly says :

                                                          http://ourmedia.org/node/314045

                                                          But he also says it is important to learn about other's
                                                          traditions. These two attitudes are essential in order to stop
                                                          colonialism and fake wars between the 3 related major traditions.

                                                          The truth is at the core of all spiritual experience. It
                                                          is found beyond dogma and orthodox religion.

                                                          --
                                                          李 Lee Love 大
                                                          愛      鱗
                                                          in Minneapolis 0http:http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/

                                                          "With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the
                                                          difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will
                                                          make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
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