Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: RE: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking

Expand Messages
  • wreturns@optonline.net
    ... I used to be ashamed of having unruly powerful emotions. I used to apologize for them all the time. I once tried to rationalize my way into detachment,
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      > I wasn't trying to knock emotions.

      I used to be ashamed of having unruly powerful emotions. I used to apologize for them all the time. I once tried to rationalize my way into detachment, explaining to my therapist that I knew emotions were only chemical happenings in my brain, so I was no longer going to give them so much importance. She told me, "don't knock your emotions. You feelings are your own and you have a right to them". That was a powerful lesson for me.

      So, okay, you weren't knocking emotions. I was just trying to say that it's okay to have these troubling memories and feelings you described. In case you didn't know that already. :)

      > afflictive emotions are seen as obstacles in both, no? Anyone?

      I'd say yes.

      The *affliction" is an obstacle. I think the word for this is "klesha".

      But we can have our emotions and not be afflicted by them, right?


      > Anyway, from what I've seen, if an afflictive emotion isn't dealt
      > with, it's often INflicted onto others.

      I strongly agree. Sometimes even if we don't say anything, and trying *so hard* not to let our emotions make a problem for others, our very energy field can radiate discomfort. (Like, a bad vibe, man)

      > Usually the people we are closest to.
      > So we owe it to them, to start dealing with our afflictive emotions.

      Yes. This is the root of the Bodhisattva path. It starts with ourselves. I used to have a sign taped on my kitchen wall to remind me:

      We owe it to everyone else
      To owe it to ourselves

      Maggie Woman Returns
    • Jakub Jaroszewski
      ... From: Weasel Tracks Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking ... Fanny or, maybe interesting answer... Is It really is
      Message 2 of 30 , Feb 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Weasel Tracks" <weaseltrax@...>
        Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking


        > At 12:35 AM +0100 06/02/02, Jakub Jaroszewski wrote:
        >>Let go the wheel, foot, vibrations, driving, awareness, body, road, and
        >>breath, and the moment, too...
        >>...and it's still not "This", is it?
        >
        > Unless it is.

        Fanny or, maybe interesting answer... Is It really is ?:)
        If so then where is It? You whould probably say it's on the cussion, but i
        had to ask :))
      • Scott Hutton
        On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 15:22 -0500, wreturns@optonline.net wrote: Usually the people we are closest to. So we owe it to them, to start dealing with our
        Message 3 of 30 , Feb 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 15:22 -0500, wreturns@... wrote:
          > > Usually the people we are closest to.
          > > So we owe it to them, to start dealing with our afflictive
          > emotions.
          >
          > Yes. This is the root of the Bodhisattva path. It starts with
          > ourselves. I used to have a sign taped on my kitchen wall to remind
          > me:
          >
          > We owe it to everyone else
          > To owe it to ourselves

          ______________________________
          Yes I know Maggie... but it's the "everyone else" that motivates me to
          sit, to face things when I'd rather turn away, and seek ways to quell
          the fire added to my emotions.
          When the thought that it's all too hard, well I'm not suffering TTTOOO
          much anyway, excuses, justifications and denials creep in ... Big brown
          eyes, ears held slightly apart from the head, just a glimpse of perfect
          teeth from under a pink tongue. Muzzle on my knee. "Keep this up and
          I'll beat you to it..."...... Its often my dog who picks me up and puts
          me back on my bike.

          Scott

          Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
        • Scott Hutton
          On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 15:22 -0500, wreturns@optonline.net wrote: Sometimes even if we don t say anything, and trying *so hard* not to let our emotions make
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            On Fri, 2006-02-03 at 15:22 -0500, wreturns@... wrote:
            > Sometimes even if we don't say anything, and trying *so hard* not to
            > let our emotions make a problem for others, our very energy field can
            > radiate discomfort. (Like, a bad vibe, man)
            _______________________-
            Indeed. And often we struggle to avoid our emotive "hotspots" so much,
            steering around them, frantically avoiding them, that we just about put
            them in neon lights, advertising the fact that they are there. Sometimes
            even if we DO deal with the emotion, we still avoid that place out of
            habit, fear, or not knowing any different. So for any halfway observant
            person who wants to control us, we've just about given them a road map
            of what our fears and "areas of ignorance" are. Then we wonder how they
            get such firm control over us, and don't really see that it's us that
            have been steering ourselves.
            Samsara really does suck, doesn't it...

            Scott

            Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
          • wreturns@optonline.net
            Jakub, Below is the last message I ve seen from you on the list. Is this the one you didn t see back in your own mailbox? No message of yours was moderated.
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 11, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Jakub,

              Below is the last message I've seen from you on the list. Is this the one you didn't see back in your own mailbox?

              No message of yours was moderated.

              Maggie Woman Returns

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jakub Jaroszewski <jakub_j@...>
              Date: Friday, February 3, 2006 5:54 pm
              Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking

              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Weasel Tracks" <weaseltrax@...>
              > Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking
              >
              >
              > > At 12:35 AM +0100 06/02/02, Jakub Jaroszewski wrote:
              > >>Let go the wheel, foot, vibrations, driving, awareness, body,
              > road, and
              > >>breath, and the moment, too...
              > >>...and it's still not "This", is it?
              > >
              > > Unless it is.
              >
              > Fanny or, maybe interesting answer... Is It really is ?:)
              > If so then where is It? You whould probably say it's on the
              > cussion, but i
              > had to ask :))
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
              > ~-->
              > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope
              > and healing
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              > -~->
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Scott Hutton
              On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 20:16 -0500, wreturns@optonline.net wrote: Jakub, Below is the last message I ve seen from you on the list. Is this the one you
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 11, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 20:16 -0500, wreturns@... wrote:
                > Jakub,
                >
                > Below is the last message I've seen from you on the list. Is this the
                > one you didn't see back in your own mailbox?
                >
                > No message of yours was moderated.
                >

                Jakub, have you been sending your messages to the Yahoo group or the old
                (now defunct) Majordomo list? Have you updated your address list?

                Scott

                Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
              • Jakub Jaroszewski
                Hi, I m just mailing with Jane Lago about it. I ve sended another one e-mail on February 10. It s not to be seen at yahoogroups.com at U-Zendo message board,
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 11, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi,
                  I'm just mailing with Jane Lago about it. I've sended another one e-mail on
                  February 10. It's not to be seen at yahoogroups.com at U-Zendo message
                  board, too. It was an answer to "a koan" subject by Pawel; no big deal, but
                  I didn't know why it didn't showed up so I tried to investigate it.
                  By the way, I was kindly supprised that the list is not moderated, as
                  Jane informed me. I wrote to her in "ps." that I think it makes this list
                  more friendly. People can moderate each other if necessery without a
                  constant feeling that a gendarme is watching every of their actions. It
                  feels safer this way, I suppose.
                  Enough of this off-list about the list. I talk too much lately :))

                  Jakub

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <wreturns@...>
                  To: <U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:16 AM
                  Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking


                  > Jakub,
                  >
                  > Below is the last message I've seen from you on the list. Is this the one
                  > you didn't see back in your own mailbox?
                  >
                  > No message of yours was moderated.
                  >
                  > Maggie Woman Returns
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Jakub Jaroszewski <jakub_j@...>
                  > Date: Friday, February 3, 2006 5:54 pm
                  > Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking
                  >
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "Weasel Tracks" <weaseltrax@...>
                  >> Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> > At 12:35 AM +0100 06/02/02, Jakub Jaroszewski wrote:
                  >> >>Let go the wheel, foot, vibrations, driving, awareness, body,
                  >> road, and
                  >> >>breath, and the moment, too...
                  >> >>...and it's still not "This", is it?
                  >> >
                  >> > Unless it is.
                  >>
                  >> Fanny or, maybe interesting answer... Is It really is ?:)
                  >> If so then where is It? You whould probably say it's on the
                  >> cussion, but i
                  >> had to ask :))
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
                  >> ~-->
                  >> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope
                  >> and healing
                  >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM
                  >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >> -~->
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Jakub Jaroszewski
                  Hi, Scott, I ve sended at U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com. It was a reply mail, so the receiver address should be correct. ... From: Scott Hutton
                  Message 8 of 30 , Feb 12, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi, Scott,

                    I've sended at U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com.
                    It was a 'reply' mail, so the receiver address should be correct.


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Scott Hutton" <scott_1971_h@...>
                    To: <U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:35 AM
                    Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking


                    > On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 20:16 -0500, wreturns@... wrote:
                    >> Jakub,
                    >>
                    >> Below is the last message I've seen from you on the list. Is this the
                    >> one you didn't see back in your own mailbox?
                    >>
                    >> No message of yours was moderated.
                    >>
                    >
                    > Jakub, have you been sending your messages to the Yahoo group or the old
                    > (now defunct) Majordomo list? Have you updated your address list?
                    >
                    > Scott
                    >
                    > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Jakub Jaroszewski
                    ... From: Weasel Tracks To: Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 22, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Weasel Tracks" <weaseltrax@...>
                      To: <U-Zendo@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:57 PM
                      Subject: Re: [U-Zendo] Attention and checking


                      > At 7:29 PM +0100 06/02/02, Jakub Jaroszewski wrote:
                      >>Now I'm beginning to prepare to go and practice at Chan workshops, maybe
                      >>retreat, too, but I don't know when I'll start to (purposes of money, job,
                      >>parent and sisters not nececerily being fond of it...)
                      >
                      > I see that you are in Poland. How close are you to Dharma centers? I
                      > know that there are centers associated with Kwan Um, and you mention
                      > "Chan." I believe that Desimaru's lineage is active there also.
                      >

                      Hi. Some time passed since you wrote this. But I needed the time to
                      assimilate the contents of it :))
                      There are Buddhist groups and centers in my city.
                      I was participating in meditations in a few groups here.
                      There was a group of Sotetsu Yuzen Sensei's (now Roshi) Mumonkai. I was
                      practicing there. It was very hard. Very strict group and unfortunately
                      there were some internal tensions in it when I begun to practice. They were
                      very critical about other groups and teachers, including Kwan Um lineage and
                      Teacher.
                      Then I left them and engage in Tibetan Karma Kamtzang group. I took few
                      abhishekas in other cities, too.
                      For a reason I am not certain, I tried in Mumonkai again and I took part in
                      7 day sesshin for the first time in my life.
                      Simultanously I was infecting myself with different esoteric traditions like
                      Tarot and Astrology, sometimes with practical exercises taken from books.
                      My life begun to brake up. Finely I left astrology course, which I began to
                      participate. I took one-year break in my High Shool, and then I change the
                      5-year Master course to 3-year batchelor. I finished it quite good but I
                      haven't wanted to continue the line - it was mathematics - computer science
                      profile. During all this time I became very confused, I haven't find a job
                      and didn't want to find it, love disappointed me and I slipped into
                      insanity.
                      Few years later I begun to participate in Buddhist Mission meditations and
                      one-day retreats. I met the abbot and took part in three-day meditations in
                      Szczecin, in "his" Zendo. It was very good to participate.
                      Finaly I get contact to Chan group in Washaw and took 5-day retreats.
                      Unfortunatly it didn't protect me from falling in insanity again and I
                      didn't go back to practicing with other people until now.
                      However, I continued maditations, recitations, reading buddhist texts etc.,
                      mainly on the little amount of teachings I received in Chan group. Now I try
                      to find a way to practice with them again, in harmony with my environment
                      and my health, but I'm quite affraid. I lost most of my trust in groups as
                      places of safety. I feel cursed in a way and I'm not sure if there is a
                      place in any group for me right now. I'm quite suspitious about me being in
                      any of them.

                      > Being able to practice regularly with others, like once a week, is of
                      > great value. It usually costs nothing to attend such services, but it
                      > helps a lot to encourage yourself and develop your aspiration.
                      >

                      In my city's Zen groups (the two I attanded) they were quite strict about
                      regular payments. Usually small amounts. There were very few people 2,3, up
                      to 5 sometimes, and we had to gather some money to have a place to practice
                      at. So I was usually paying for my training :))

                      > Family can be a problem. Are they Catholic, or maybe nonreligious?
                      > But if you practice sincerely, without making a big deal about it,
                      > those close to you will notice that it is beneficial to you.
                      >

                      They are Catholic. They were very angry at my buddhist activity, aspecially
                      the first group I've attanded. They thought it was a "Cult" and blamed them
                      for my mental problems. It is quite ok now, but when I said I want to go to
                      practice at workshops and retreats with Chan group, my father had
                      blood-presure problems again and my mother said that I was looking worse and
                      worse after each retreat. I decided to find a harmonious way to participate
                      and I said it to them. I'm "tuning" my life slowly now. The Bodhisattwa
                      Samanthabhadra's 9th vow: "Always be in harmony with sentient beings" I took
                      as a clue here. I hope to find a way.

                      > I kept my religion to myself, within my family, until my parents
                      > pressured me to become a formal member of their parish. Actually, my
                      > father enrolled me before I knew what was happening, and with the
                      > priest already congratulating me, I was stunned into submission. For
                      > a while. I wrote to the priest, who was very understanding, and told
                      > my parents that I had to resign from the parish, because I was a
                      > practicing Buddhist. They were not pleased and argued with me that I
                      > must be a Christian because I was baptized!
                      >
                      > My parents needed transportation to attend the Liturgy at their
                      > church, a fine Orthodox cathedral that was previously in the Russian
                      > Church, but had joined the new Orthodox Church in America. I drove
                      > them at least every other Sunday, and for the special holidays. My
                      > Buddhism enabled me to look at the religion objectively, and to see
                      > the spiritual value in it. I came to appreciate the dedication and
                      > beauty of that path. Although we never argued over religion again,
                      > with it becoming almost taboo, I would mention a Buddhist view or
                      > story if it was relevant to conversation, and my parents began to get
                      > a picture of that religion. They did notc that it was their Buddhist
                      > son who took them to church and joined them in prayers, while their
                      > Christian daughter, my dear sister who had joined an exclusivist
                      > group, felt she could not even step into their church. By the time
                      > they died, we felt quite spiritually compatible.
                      >

                      Your were were very helpful. They slowly refreshed my mind.
                      My first steps in buddhism were very difficult. Mumonkai's teacher said that
                      if someone wants to practice in his goups, then he/she have to resign from
                      other groups. We were informed that to continue the practice there we must
                      resing from Catholic Church in formal way and bring the evidence of it
                      written be a priest who would removed us from the baptism-book we were sign
                      in at.
                      So I went there. The priest didn't want to accept my asking. He felt bed and
                      left the room saying he has to get some air. I was a little affraid that he
                      got a heart-attack. He was an old man. Then he came back and said me to
                      leave and think it over again. I went out, took a walk and came back.
                      The priest wasn't there. Instead there was an old woman. I told her I want
                      to leave the church and that I talk to priest already. She signed a not in a
                      big book and I asked a not as an evidence of this.
                      This way I left the church...

                      > That was my experience. Perhaps yours may not be the same. I would
                      > just advise you not to allow religious differences to become
                      > confrontational. Anger breeds anger, and criticism begets
                      > defensiveness. Compassion and clear, unemotional vision will enable
                      > you to see deeply into other people, especially those you love, and
                      > you will act naturally in ways that foster understanding.
                      >

                      I always try to be open to other people view but sometimes I failed. For
                      egsample I've said very bad thing about the Polish Pope very shortly before
                      he died. It was very weared and it was out of a kind of confusion or madness
                      of some kind. To the present day I don't understeand why I said it and I
                      don't even know what I exactly meant by that. It the effect I felt guilty
                      and I think my sister's feeonsay really hate me for that - so she does a
                      little, too.

                      >>Enough of this blubling:)
                      >
                      > A remarkable word! I have never seen it before, but I know exactly
                      > what it means :)
                      >
                      >>I hope you felt better.
                      >>At least I had ...
                      >>Sorry if my grammar was to difficult to understand the sentences:((
                      >
                      > Not too difficult.
                      >
                      > ---Weasel Tracks
                      >

                      I did a very long letter... I don't read it again to correct it. Its too
                      long and I don't want to see what I written :)) I hope it's clear anough to
                      read. There are some things - at least one - on my mind I would like to add,
                      but maybe I won't lengthen the letter. There will be another time to write
                      it down, I suppose ...
                      Thank you for your letter, too.
                      Sincerely,
                      Jakub
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.