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Re: [U-Zendo] Wired Buddhism

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  • Richard Horvitz
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Weasel Tracks wrote: [...] ... As a practical matter this is true. But both sides (buddhists and scientific materialists) make some kind
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 31, 2006
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      On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Weasel Tracks wrote:
      [...]
      >
      > It has always seemed to me that Buddhism is a religion which has
      > nothing to fear from science. Nor the other way around.
      >
      > ---Weasel Tracks

      As a practical matter this is true. But both sides (buddhists and
      scientific materialists) make some kind of claim of truth, and both sides
      claim to give an understanding of our experience in this world. Friction
      arises as this brings the specter of dualism, which is objectionable all
      around. At least I've had trouble with this. I think that as
      neuroscience makes more progress the issues will become ... more
      interesting. There is already some knowledge of brain chances that occur
      due to meditation. It seems plausible that scientists might discover how
      to cause these changes through some technique such as "transcranial
      magnetic stimulation" (where parts of the brain can be activated using a
      tightly focussed strong magnetic field). It is possible that such a
      technique might have exactly the same effect as years of zazen, but in a
      fraction of the time. My guess is that most people here would reject such
      a method due to its materialistic underpinnings. Am I wrong?
    • Lee Love
      ... Actually , there are non-materialist scientists. So the problem isn t buddhism vs. science, but rather, a process vs. an object oriented
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 31, 2006
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        Richard Horvitz wrote:

        >On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Weasel Tracks wrote:
        >[...]
        >
        >
        >>It has always seemed to me that Buddhism is a religion which has
        >>nothing to fear from science. Nor the other way around.
        >>
        >> ---Weasel Tracks
        >>
        >>
        >
        >As a practical matter this is true. But both sides (buddhists and
        >scientific materialists) make some kind of claim of truth, and both sides
        >claim to give an understanding of our experience in this world.
        >
        >
        Actually , there are "non-materialist" scientists. So the problem
        isn't buddhism vs. science, but rather, a process vs. an object
        oriented perspective.



        --
        Lee Love
        in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
        http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs

        "Human subtlety will never devise an invention more beautiful,
        more simple or more direct than does Nature,
        because in her inventions, nothing is lacking and nothing is superfluous."

        --Leonardo da Vinci
      • Lou Anne Jaeger
        As long as Cherry Garcia ice cream lives on, so does Jerry! ... Huh? I ll keep following the group until Jerry dies or something. ... SPONSORED LINKS Zen
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 1, 2006
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          As long as Cherry Garcia ice cream lives on, so does Jerry!



          Weasel Tracks <weaseltrax@...> wrote:
          At 11:39 AM -0800 06/01/30, Lou Anne Jaeger wrote:
          >Or when you realize that following the Greatful Dead from concert to
          >concert really isn't such a fulfilling way to spend one's life?

          Huh?

          I'll keep following the group until Jerry dies or something.

              ---Weasel Tracks

        • Weasel Tracks
          ... Zazen is not only changing a mental state, incidently changing brain structure, but undoing karma. Can a magnetic field change your attitudes and
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 1, 2006
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            At 5:25 PM -0500 06/01/31, Richard Horvitz wrote:
            >I think that as
            >neuroscience makes more progress the issues will become ... more
            >interesting. There is already some knowledge of brain chances that occur
            >due to meditation. It seems plausible that scientists might discover how
            >to cause these changes through some technique such as "transcranial
            >magnetic stimulation" (where parts of the brain can be activated using a
            >tightly focussed strong magnetic field). It is possible that such a
            >technique might have exactly the same effect as years of zazen, but in a
            >fraction of the time. My guess is that most people here would reject such
            >a method due to its materialistic underpinnings. Am I wrong?

            Zazen is not only changing a mental state, incidently changing brain
            structure, but undoing karma. Can a magnetic field change your
            attitudes and understandings, developed over a lifetime of
            misperception? I think the only shortcut is traditional Buddhist
            practice.

            But the only real test of whether such a thing has value with regard
            to Zen, is to try it and see. We did exactly this with LSD, did we
            not?

            ---Weasel Tracks
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