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Re: [TriumphTrophy] RE: clattering engine

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  • apsllp@bellsouth.net
    No Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone ... From: miles.a.french@googlemail.com To: Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE:
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 18, 2013
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      No

      Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

      ----- Reply message -----
      From: miles.a.french@...
      To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE: clattering engine
      Date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 11:58 am


       

      I meant to add something that may be irrelevant but is something I haven't seen before, If I hold the revs at 4000rpm the rev counter flicks down randomly every few seconds for a moment. Is that anything to do with the clattering? 



      ---In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <miles.a.french@...> wrote:

      Thanks for all your suggestions. I tried the screwdriver trick but the clattering now seems to only start at about 4000 rpm, and I can't really tell where it is coming from above all the other normal racket going on in there. It might be louder at bottom right. Oh no. I'll see if I can record it somehow. Rod it would be great if you are right and the spark plug electrode has broken off. (Would the bike still run well?) . I suppose all I'd need would be a magnet on a stick (and a new plug). If I can't tell where it's coming from, I need to get the cam covers off in any case to check the shims and cam chain. If that all looks hunky dory I'll check the clutch and then take the sump off for a look at the bottom end. I'm going to have to weigh up the costs as similar bikes in reasonable condition are still only fetching £700 - £1000. Maybe I should get one the same for cannibalising. If I had £700.

      Miles BBBS 95 57000m



      ---In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <nick591@...> wrote:

      Hi Miles,

       

      Sorry to hear of your problem. Could I suggest it might be a big end bearing gone, or maybe a small end bearing? You occasionally hear older cars with a metallic tapping like this which gets louder and faster as the revs increase. Can you post a video with sound so we can hear the type of noise? Does the noise get louder when the engine is under load (e.g. going up a steep hill rather than on the flat at the same speed)? If your oil pressure is reasonable it could prevent the noise being too loud until the reciprocating loads on the con rod get large enough with increasing revs to cause metal-to-metal contact. Once it wears a bit too much you lose oil pressure on that crank pin and the whole process accelerates until the noise is heard at all rpm.

       

      If you use the screwdriver method someone else suggested (incredibly helpful method – you’ll be amazed what you can hear) and you find the noise is coming from the bottom end of the engine at the front (i.e. around the crankshaft) that’s probably what it is. Judicious placement of the screwdriver will probably even allow you to tell which cylinder has the problem. Bad news is that if that is the cause it’s a complete engine out and strip down job (or fit a second-hand reconditioned engine if you don’t want to attempt the rebuild).

       

      Cheers, Nick

       

       

    • apsllp@bellsouth.net
      No Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone ... From: miles.a.french@googlemail.com To: Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE:
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 18, 2013
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        No

        Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

        ----- Reply message -----
        From: miles.a.french@...
        To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE: clattering engine
        Date: Mon, Nov 18, 2013 11:58 am


         

        I meant to add something that may be irrelevant but is something I haven't seen before, If I hold the revs at 4000rpm the rev counter flicks down randomly every few seconds for a moment. Is that anything to do with the clattering? 



        ---In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <miles.a.french@...> wrote:

        Thanks for all your suggestions. I tried the screwdriver trick but the clattering now seems to only start at about 4000 rpm, and I can't really tell where it is coming from above all the other normal racket going on in there. It might be louder at bottom right. Oh no. I'll see if I can record it somehow. Rod it would be great if you are right and the spark plug electrode has broken off. (Would the bike still run well?) . I suppose all I'd need would be a magnet on a stick (and a new plug). If I can't tell where it's coming from, I need to get the cam covers off in any case to check the shims and cam chain. If that all looks hunky dory I'll check the clutch and then take the sump off for a look at the bottom end. I'm going to have to weigh up the costs as similar bikes in reasonable condition are still only fetching £700 - £1000. Maybe I should get one the same for cannibalising. If I had £700.

        Miles BBBS 95 57000m



        ---In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <nick591@...> wrote:

        Hi Miles,

         

        Sorry to hear of your problem. Could I suggest it might be a big end bearing gone, or maybe a small end bearing? You occasionally hear older cars with a metallic tapping like this which gets louder and faster as the revs increase. Can you post a video with sound so we can hear the type of noise? Does the noise get louder when the engine is under load (e.g. going up a steep hill rather than on the flat at the same speed)? If your oil pressure is reasonable it could prevent the noise being too loud until the reciprocating loads on the con rod get large enough with increasing revs to cause metal-to-metal contact. Once it wears a bit too much you lose oil pressure on that crank pin and the whole process accelerates until the noise is heard at all rpm.

         

        If you use the screwdriver method someone else suggested (incredibly helpful method – you’ll be amazed what you can hear) and you find the noise is coming from the bottom end of the engine at the front (i.e. around the crankshaft) that’s probably what it is. Judicious placement of the screwdriver will probably even allow you to tell which cylinder has the problem. Bad news is that if that is the cause it’s a complete engine out and strip down job (or fit a second-hand reconditioned engine if you don’t want to attempt the rebuild).

         

        Cheers, Nick

         

         

      • apsllp@bellsouth.net
        Before taking it apart, change the oil + filter and start it for a few miuntes. See if you are still getting water in the oil. Remember, a salesman will tell
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 12, 2013
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          Before taking it apart, change the oil + filter and start it for a few miuntes.  See if you are still getting water in the oil.  Remember, a salesman will tell you anything trying to part you with your money.

          Bob Clark

          Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

          ----- Reply message -----
          From: miles.a.french@...
          To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE: clattering engine
          Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 7:37 am


           

          AAARGHH I've got water in the sump of my replacement engine. I spoke to Dan about it last night, after I took the sump plug out and half a pint of water and mayonnaise poured out, and he said it was probably the cylinder head gasket. Later I took the oil filter out and clear oil (if a bit dark) came out. The guy who sold it to me swears its a good engine, that they would have marked it for spares if it had been full of mayonnaise, and that the water is probably over-enthusiastic washing with a pressure hose. Should I believe him? Taking the cylinder head off is tricky for me as I have to get the bike out to work on it, and tuck it away in a corner when I've finished, and I can't see how to do that with the cylinder head off and the engine mounted only on its rear bolts : it needs chocking under the sump. Good sense says strip it down. Impatience, laziness, and practicality says flush it out and hope for the best. Here I am dithering again.

          Miles

          SSSShit

        • slovcan
          Agree with Bob. If you go forward with the install, do run it and recheck. If you do still get water in the oil pull the cam cover and check the torque on the
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 12, 2013
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            Agree with Bob. If you go forward with the install, do run it and recheck. If you do still get water in the oil pull the cam cover and check the torque on the head bolts. Seems to me the may not be an actual torque spec rather a 1/2 turn past something, not sure. Check the book. Point is you can sometimes add a little torque and fix a leak and may even find a bolt or two that are obviously in need of an extra bit of tightening compared to the others.

          • apsllp@bellsouth.net
            Depends on how much water got in tjere Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone ... From: Samuel Crider To:
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 17, 2013
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              Depends on how much water got in tjere

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

              ----- Reply message -----
              From: "Samuel Crider" <dieseldude1@...>
              To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE: clattering engine
              Date: Tue, Dec 17, 2013 11:30 am


               

              Hi Miles,

              Sounds like good news! How do the cam journals look? I'd expect them to breakdown first being up at the top end.

              Cheers,
              Samuel

              On Dec 17, 2013 9:35 AM, <miles.a.french@...> wrote:


              Good news possibly (about my engine - not about hols in Devon)
              I took the clutch cover off and the sound damping foam out. The inner retaining plate was a little rusty, but no sign of any mayonnaise. I got the sump off and there was a little bit of water in the well with the gauze on top. The gauze had tiny scraps and flakes of black silicon in there, but no metal I could see. I jiggled the big ends, and could feel a little movement along the axis of the crankshaft (0.5mm is normal according to Haynes), but I couldn't feel any movement up and down. I'm not going to replace the shells as, for one thing, I can't find any replacements.
              So, time to re-assemble it all. 
              Miles


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