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RE: 1200 forks

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  • greg95ns
    Hi Ken, There has got to be a story there about why you need new forks. Sprint, and Sprint Sport forks will swap. Also teach us how to snip on this new format.
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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      Hi Ken, 

      There has got to be a story there about why you need new forks.

      Sprint, and Sprint Sport forks will swap.

      Also teach us how to snip on this new format.

      Thanks,

      Greg Andrews



      --- In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <a.ringrose@...> wrote:

      I'm awaiting some Daytona forks in the post,I'll let you know ,I'm guessing the top plastic cover won't fit anymore because of the fork adjusters.

      Sent from my iPod

      On 20 Sep 2013, at 10:53, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:

       

      I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
      stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

      Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

      Ken Hastie
      Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
      and D14 Bantams
       

    • Ken Hastie
      Nothing serious. Bike failed MOT this morning on weeping fork oil seal; actually a small puddle formed 8-) I already knew the stanchions were pitted and new
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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        Nothing serious.  Bike failed MOT this morning on weeping fork oil seal; actually a small puddle formed  8-)

         

        I already knew the stanchions were pitted and new oil seals last year (and the year before) didn’t last long.

         

        New stanchions are around 90 quid each whereas there are plenty of forks around on eBay.

         

        Basically it is cheaper to fit replacement working forks than to fanny on buying and changing stanchions, seals covers etc etc

         

        There were a nice pair of Daytona forks on eBay for £150, hence my question, but I now understand that to fit them you have to remove the key surround or cut it to allow the top of the forks to fit without obstruction.  When I got back to the seller (national-triumph), he said he had some really good Trophy forks on a bike that had just come in for breaking.  I got them for £129 so that wasn’t too bad.  They should be here Thursday and then I can do a quick swap and get a free retest at the MOT station (has to be done in ten days).

         

        The advantage of the Daytona forks is they are adjustable, but I have lived without that for the last 14 years so can live without  it for a few more.

         

        So that’s the story.

         

        I think it is next weekend some of you guys are heading for Cumbria ?  Wish I could go but I have to work (I work shifts at a marina and work every other weekend)

         

        Hope you all have fun !

         

        I don’t see this new format as I have the mails delivered to my Outlook account where everything is the same

         

         

        Ken Hastie
        Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10 and D14 Bantams
         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

        From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gandrews2@...
        Sent: 20 September 2013 16:12
        To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE: 1200 forks

         




        Hi Ken, 

        There has got to be a story there about why you need new forks.

        Sprint, and Sprint Sport forks will swap.

        Also teach us how to snip on this new format.

        Thanks,

        Greg Andrews

         

         

      • Rod Gill
        Ken, Yes they are that s what i have in mine, it was a straight swap For me. Benefit is better handling too. Regards rod & dot Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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          Ken,
          Yes they are that's what i have in mine, it was a straight swap
          For me. Benefit is better handling too.
          Regards rod & dot

          Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



          From: Ken Hastie <ken@...>;
          To: Yahoogroup Triumph Tr <triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
          Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:53:04 AM

           

          I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
          stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

          Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

          Ken Hastie
          Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
          and D14 Bantams
           

        • Rod Gill
          Ken mine needed cleaning up as they were pitted. I rubbed then down with an oil stone large flat the type to sharpen chisels and theywork perfectly for a long
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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            Ken mine needed cleaning up as they were pitted. I rubbed then down with an oil stone large flat the type to sharpen chisels and theywork perfectly for a long while now.rod

            Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



            From: Ken Hastie <ken@...>;
            To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
            Subject: RE: [TriumphTrophy] RE: 1200 forks
            Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:07:02 PM

             

            Nothing serious.  Bike failed MOT this morning on weeping fork oil seal; actually a small puddle formed  8-)

             

            I already knew the stanchions were pitted and new oil seals last year (and the year before) didn’t last long.

             

            New stanchions are around 90 quid each whereas there are plenty of forks around on eBay.

             

            Basically it is cheaper to fit replacement working forks than to fanny on buying and changing stanchions, seals covers etc etc

             

            There were a nice pair of Daytona forks on eBay for £150, hence my question, but I now understand that to fit them you have to remove the key surround or cut it to allow the top of the forks to fit without obstruction.  When I got back to the seller (national-triumph), he said he had some really good Trophy forks on a bike that had just come in for breaking.  I got them for £129 so that wasn’t too bad.  They should be here Thursday and then I can do a quick swap and get a free retest at the MOT station (has to be done in ten days).

             

            The advantage of the Daytona forks is they are adjustable, but I have lived without that for the last 14 years so can live without  it for a few more.

             

            So that’s the story.

             

            I think it is next weekend some of you guys are heading for Cumbria ?  Wish I could go but I have to work (I work shifts at a marina and work every other weekend)

             

            Hope you all have fun !

             

            I don’t see this new format as I have the mails delivered to my Outlook account where everything is the same

             

             

            Ken Hastie
            Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10 and D14 Bantams
             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gandrews2@...
            Sent: 20 September 2013 16:12
            To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [TriumphTrophy] RE: 1200 forks

             




            Hi Ken, 

            There has got to be a story there about why you need new forks.

            Sprint, and Sprint Sport forks will swap.

            Also teach us how to snip on this new format.

            Thanks,

            Greg Andrews

             

             

          • Ed Johnson
            What do you attribute the better handling to? What s different if they are a direct swap? *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB** ... -- I am using the free
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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              What do you attribute the "better handling" to? What's different if they are a direct swap?
              Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
              On 9/20/2013 12:50 PM, Rod Gill wrote:

              Ken,
              Yes they are that's what i have in mine, it was a straight swap
              For me. Benefit is better handling too.
              Regards rod & dot

              Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



              From: Ken Hastie <ken@...>;
              To: Yahoogroup Triumph Tr <triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
              Subject: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
              Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:53:04 AM

               

              I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
              stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

              Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

              Ken Hastie
              Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
              and D14 Bantams
               


               
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            • Ed Johnson
              What do you attribute the better handling to? What s different if they are a direct swap? *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB** ... -- I am using the free
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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                What do you attribute the "better handling" to? What's different if they are a direct swap?
                Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                On 9/20/2013 12:50 PM, Rod Gill wrote:

                Ken,
                Yes they are that's what i have in mine, it was a straight swap
                For me. Benefit is better handling too.
                Regards rod & dot

                Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                From: Ken Hastie <ken@...>;
                To: Yahoogroup Triumph Tr <triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
                Subject: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
                Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:53:04 AM

                 

                I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
                stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

                Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

                Ken Hastie
                Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                and D14 Bantams
                 


                 
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              • Samuel Crider
                I ve been wondering what would be the proper fork gator. Are the full coverage rubber ones worth the effort? Hell s bells....Actually, this Schlitz can
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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                  I've been wondering what would be the proper fork gator. Are the full coverage rubber ones worth the effort? Hell's bells....Actually, this Schlitz can currently in hand seems to be begging for an exciting afterlife.

                  Enjoy the ride.

                  Samuel

                  On Sep 20, 2013 10:11 AM, <gandrews2@...> wrote:


                  Hi Ken, 

                  There has got to be a story there about why you need new forks.

                  Sprint, and Sprint Sport forks will swap.

                  Also teach us how to snip on this new format.

                  Thanks,

                  Greg Andrews



                  --- In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <a.ringrose@...> wrote:

                  I'm awaiting some Daytona forks in the post,I'll let you know ,I'm guessing the top plastic cover won't fit anymore because of the fork adjusters.

                  Sent from my iPod

                  On 20 Sep 2013, at 10:53, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:

                   

                  I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
                  stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

                  Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

                  Ken Hastie
                  Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                  and D14 Bantams
                   



                • Jack Byers
                  Hey Friends, I made my first pair out of hose clamps and leather.. Then Triumph came out with a nifty plastic set for $10-15 bucks. that look even better!!
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 20, 2013
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                    Hey Friends,
                       I made my first pair out of hose clamps and leather.. Then Triumph came out with a nifty plastic set for $10-15 bucks. that look even better!!  With the new "Stock" ones and the front of the fairing so low, I can't imagine much could get thru there. Mine are 18 yrs old, and look like new, and all I have on there are those plastic "shields?" from Triumph. I love them!
                     Kindest regards,
                       Poppa Jack
                    On Sep 20, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Samuel Crider wrote:

                     

                    I've been wondering what would be the proper fork gator. Are the full coverage rubber ones worth the effort? Hell's bells....Actually, this Schlitz can currently in hand seems to be begging for an exciting afterlife.

                    Enjoy the ride.

                    Samuel

                    On Sep 20, 2013 10:11 AM, <gandrews2@...> wrote:


                    Hi Ken, 

                    There has got to be a story there about why you need new forks.

                    Sprint, and Sprint Sport forks will swap.

                    Also teach us how to snip on this new format.

                    Thanks,

                    Greg Andrews



                    --- In triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com, <a.ringrose@...> wrote:

                    I'm awaiting some Daytona forks in the post,I'll let you know ,I'm guessing the top plastic cover won't fit anymore because of the fork adjusters.

                    Sent from my iPod

                    On 20 Sep 2013, at 10:53, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:

                     

                    I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
                    stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

                    Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

                    Ken Hastie
                    Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                    and D14 Bantams
                     





                  • Rod Gill
                    Hi Edd, The daytona forks are adjustable for preload, damping and compression, hence you can tailor them to your comfort etc. For example when going camping
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 21, 2013
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                      Hi Edd,
                      The daytona forks are adjustable for preload, damping and compression, hence you can tailor them to your comfort etc. For example when going camping and two up you can increase preload etcRod

                      Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                      From: Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@...>;
                      To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
                      Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
                      Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:29:08 PM

                       

                      What do you attribute the "better handling" to? What's different if they are a direct swap?
                      Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                      On 9/20/2013 12:50 PM, Rod Gill wrote:

                      Ken,
                      Yes they are that's what i have in mine, it was a straight swap
                      For me. Benefit is better handling too.
                      Regards rod & dot

                      Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                      From: Ken Hastie <ken@...>;
                      To: Yahoogroup Triumph Tr <triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
                      Subject: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
                      Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:53:04 AM

                       

                      I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
                      stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

                      Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

                      Ken Hastie
                      Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                      and D14 Bantams
                       


                       
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                    • Ed Johnson
                      Thanks Rod! *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 21, 2013
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                        Thanks Rod!
                        Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                        On 9/21/2013 5:51 AM, Rod Gill wrote:

                        Hi Edd,
                        The daytona forks are adjustable for preload, damping and compression, hence you can tailor them to your comfort etc. For example when going camping and two up you can increase preload etcRod

                        Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                        From: Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@...>;
                        To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
                        Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
                        Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:29:08 PM

                         

                        What do you attribute the "better handling" to? What's different if they are a direct swap?
                        Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                        On 9/20/2013 12:50 PM, Rod Gill wrote:

                        Ken,
                        Yes they are that's what i have in mine, it was a straight swap
                        For me. Benefit is better handling too.
                        Regards rod & dot

                        Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                        From: Ken Hastie <ken@...>;
                        To: Yahoogroup Triumph Tr <triumphtrophy@yahoogroups.com>;
                        Subject: [TriumphTrophy] 1200 forks
                        Sent: Fri, Sep 20, 2013 9:53:04 AM

                         

                        I need new forks (probably just the stanchions, although I do have a
                        stripped thread in the base of one fork so use a through bolt instead)

                        Does anyone know if Daytona forks are a straight swap for the Trophy forks ?

                        Ken Hastie
                        Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                        and D14 Bantams
                         


                         
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                      • Bud Izen
                        I have a 900, but all MkII body stuff is the same. On my second really long ride after getting the bike in the fall of 2001, when I got home, one of the fork
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 21, 2013
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                          I have a 900, but all MkII body stuff is the same. On my second really
                          long ride after getting the bike in the fall of 2001, when I got home,
                          one of the fork seals was blown. At that time, Triumph was still selling
                          the plastic fork protectors that Jack was referring to. His experience
                          is the same as mine - 12 years later, and no problems, including
                          numerous trips through bug- and sand-infested driving areas. They were
                          (are?) fairly inexpensive, and look, imho, a LOT better than the
                          old-fashioned-looking rubber gaiters. Also a lot easier to install, as
                          nothing had to be removed. While I was at it, I replaced the front end
                          with RaceTech springs and gold cartridge emulators. The difference in
                          handling was nothing short of amazing.

                          Bud Izen
                          Eugene Oregon

                          '99 Platimum 900
                        • Ed Johnson
                          Hi Bud; Being a consummate tinkerer I have been pondering the front forks of my Trophy for no other reason that it has almost 100,000 miles on it and
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 21, 2013
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                            Hi Bud;
                                Being a consummate "tinkerer" I have been pondering the front forks of my Trophy for no other reason that it has almost 100,000 miles on it and although the PO did the head stem bearings I don't see any evidence that the fork seals, bushings, etc. have been done except they are not leaking and the front end doesn't seem excessively  sloppy. { I bought the bike from the original owner and he provided me with all the service receipts  since he bought the bike new.]
                                 Having said that I've read multiple comments from others saying they have upgraded to the Racetech springs and how it improved the handling. Can you elaborate a little on the handling improvement? Mine just seems to klunk when encountering speed bumps and other bulging imperfections in the road. Beings that most of my riding experience was dirt track over 40 years ago I am really a novice to riding on asphalt and the newest bike I ever had before this Trophy was a '64 Bonneville! [ In fact whenever I heard asphalt mentioned I thought it was in reference to rectal problems! (;-) ]
                            Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                            On 9/21/2013 3:46 PM, Bud Izen wrote:
                            I have a 900, but all MkII body stuff is the same. On my second really 
                            long ride after getting the bike in the fall of 2001, when I got home, 
                            one of the fork seals was blown. At that time, Triumph was still selling 
                            the plastic fork protectors that Jack was referring to. His experience 
                            is the same as mine - 12 years later, and no problems, including 
                            numerous trips through bug- and sand-infested driving areas. They were 
                            (are?) fairly inexpensive, and look, imho, a LOT better than the 
                            old-fashioned-looking rubber gaiters.  Also a lot easier to install, as 
                            nothing had to be removed. While I was at it, I replaced the front end 
                            with RaceTech springs and gold cartridge emulators. The difference in 
                            handling was nothing short of amazing.
                            
                            Bud Izen
                            Eugene Oregon
                            
                            '99 Platimum 900
                            
                            
                            
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                          • John
                            I believe someone in this forum was liking at doing a group buy for forks. Mine is in need of a fork oil replacement and rear redone as it s feeling sloppier
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 21, 2013
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                              I believe someone in this forum was liking at doing a group buy for forks. Mine is in need of a fork oil replacement and rear redone as it's feeling sloppier and sloppier with each passing week. I commute 46 miles a day and its really starting to get old.

                              Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@...> wrote:
                               

                              Hi Bud;
                                  Being a consummate "tinkerer" I have been pondering the front forks of my Trophy for no other reason that it has almost 100,000 miles on it and although the PO did the head stem bearings I don't see any evidence that the fork seals, bushings, etc. have been done except they are not leaking and the front end doesn't seem excessively  sloppy. { I bought the bike from the original owner and he provided me with all the service receipts  since he bought the bike new.]
                                   Having said that I've read multiple comments from others saying they have upgraded to the Racetech springs and how it improved the handling. Can you elaborate a little on the handling improvement? Mine just seems to klunk when encountering speed bumps and other bulging imperfections in the road. Beings that most of my riding experience was dirt track over 40 years ago I am really a novice to riding on asphalt and the newest bike I ever had before this Trophy was a '64 Bonneville! [ In fact whenever I heard asphalt mentioned I thought it was in reference to rectal problems! (;-) ]
                              Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                              On 9/21/2013 3:46 PM, Bud Izen wrote:
                              I have a 900, but all MkII body stuff is the same. On my second really 
                              long ride after getting the bike in the fall of 2001, when I got home, 
                              one of the fork seals was blown. At that time, Triumph was still selling 
                              the plastic fork protectors that Jack was referring to. His experience 
                              is the same as mine - 12 years later, and no problems, including 
                              numerous trips through bug- and sand-infested driving areas. They were 
                              (are?) fairly inexpensive, and look, imho, a LOT better than the 
                              old-fashioned-looking rubber gaiters.  Also a lot easier to install, as 
                              nothing had to be removed. While I was at it, I replaced the front end 
                              with RaceTech springs and gold cartridge emulators. The difference in 
                              handling was nothing short of amazing.
                              
                              Bud Izen
                              Eugene Oregon
                              
                              '99 Platimum 900
                              
                              
                              
                              ------------------------------------
                              
                              List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a minimum when replying.
                              
                              
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                            • Bud Izen
                              The biggest pronounced difference was no more front end dive when braking. Not long before changing the front-end components, I made sure there was new fork
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 22, 2013
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                                The biggest pronounced difference was no more front end dive when
                                braking. Not long before changing the front-end components, I made sure
                                there was new fork oil, and was topped up. That made some difference,
                                but nothing compared to how it was after the change. The second biggest
                                difference was a huge improvement when encountering twisty roads and
                                sharp corners. My guess is that if you don't drive it like a sport bike
                                at least once in a while, you won't notice that much difference.

                                Bud Izen

                                Eugene Oregon

                                '99 Platinum 900
                              • Ed Johnson
                                Thanks Bud! Ah! Eugene Oregon! I performed in a Supper club there in the late 60 s for about 3.5 years called the Caravelle. I m sure it s long gone by now. It
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 22, 2013
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                                  Thanks Bud!
                                      Ah! Eugene Oregon! I performed in a Supper club there in the late 60's for about 3.5 years called the Caravelle. I'm sure it's long gone by now. It was right downtown. One of my best buddies was Archie Weinstein.  I even dated his wife a few times Kathy at his request using his credit card. Strangest thing I've ever done in my life. :-[ Archie was a strange but rich dude with a penthouse apartment with a swimming pool on top of his apartment building. I'm sure that's gone now too but I have some great memories of Eugene.
                                  Ron and Maddy Kress owned the lounge and were great people.
                                  Thanks for the update.
                                  Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                                  On 9/22/2013 12:15 PM, Bud Izen wrote:
                                  The biggest pronounced difference was no more front end dive when 
                                  braking. Not long before changing the front-end components, I made sure 
                                  there was new fork oil, and was topped up. That made some difference, 
                                  but nothing compared to how it was after the change. The second biggest 
                                  difference was a huge improvement when encountering twisty roads and 
                                  sharp corners. My guess is that if you don't drive it like a sport bike 
                                  at least once in a while, you won't notice that much difference.
                                  
                                  Bud Izen
                                  
                                  Eugene Oregon
                                  
                                  '99 Platinum 900
                                  
                                  
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                                • Jack Byers
                                  Hi Bud, I noticed the same thing. No more dive with breaking. Also the weight will stay biased to the front end, and not transfer so easily. I was sure I
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 22, 2013
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                                    Hi Bud,
                                      I noticed the same thing. No more dive with breaking. Also the weight will stay biased to the front end, and not transfer so easily. I was sure I needed to get a new shock on the rear, but the front end made the rear work very well. In the beginning I could feel a little too much road vibs, but I guess the new stuff (RaceTech) just needed to bed in. It's the best handling best rider I've ever owned..
                                     Kindest regards
                                    On Sep 22, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Bud Izen wrote:

                                     

                                    The biggest pronounced difference was no more front end dive when
                                    braking. 
                                    . My guess is that if you don't drive it like a sport bike
                                    at least once in a while, you won't notice that much difference.

                                    Bud Izen

                                    Eugene Oregon

                                    '99 Platinum 900


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