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Re: Brake calipers

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  • Daniel Barclay
    Angus Weakness is an exaggeration. I have swapped to 6 pot Tokicos (commonly documented) and found very little difference. There is an issue on some original
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 31, 2013
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      Angus

      Weakness is an exaggeration. I have swapped to 6 pot Tokicos (commonly documented) and found very little difference. There is an issue on some original setups however where the brakes are poorly bled - in my case associated with the brake line splitter at the yoke. Swapping this out for a setup (two that I know of) avoiding a splitter will add about an inch onto the handlebar lever and give a consistent firm feel.

      If you have this splitter and have no issues I suggest you never let air into it in the first instance.

      Note that the total pressure you apply at the handlebars is the total pressure applied at the discs. Choosing to do it over a larger or smaller area is not significant to the requirements of braking.

      Also if you do the right thing and declare the change to your insurance company then you are in a different ballpark.....some wont even quote you.

      Gravity (as opposed to power/pump)feeding from below and washing the brake fluid back and forth also visibly got more air out.

      Why isnt she running BTW? which will be a more significant subject (I bought two and made one) and where are you based as this can help you too.

      If you can find a fix for the rear brakes then you would be talking!!!!! check that yours fully float!

      Dan


      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "angusbain2000" <angusbain2000@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, i have just purchased a 900 Trophy not running and thought now would be a good time ask a few questions. I had read online that one of the weak points with the Trophy 900 (maybe 1200 as well?) is the front calipers are a bit weak under sports/quick riding, so i wondered if this is true? and has anybody measured the caliper bolt pattern and gone out and found some thing else (most likely off a large Jp bike) that will bolt straight on that has bigger pistons or more pistons (ie. 6pot) and improves braking dramatically with out having to change brake lines or the master cylinder. thanks.
      >
    • gordon2xbbb
      Hi Angus, Whilst I don t have experience of extreme Sports/Quick riding on either of my BBB s I would say that there are a couple of points to look out for...
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 31, 2013
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        Hi Angus,

        Whilst I don't have experience of extreme Sports/Quick riding on either of my BBB's I would say that there are a couple of points to look out for...
        Is yours a MkI (single headlight, 18" wheels)
        a MkIa (single headlight, 17" wheels) or a MkII (Twin Headlight, 17" wheels) ?

        The 18" wheels have solid discs and 2-pot calipers, the 17" wheels, floating discs and 4-pot calipers.

        Each Front Brake system has three hydraulic lines which meet at a Splitter Block mounted on the front of the bottom yoke. This Splitter block is awful, gets clogged with rusty sludge and makes bleeding the front brakes a "bleeding" nightmare. Junk the splitter and go for a Two-Line system from the Master Cylinder to each caliper.

        Master Cylinder performance greatly improved by just doing a Service on it (They are at least 15 years old now and will need new seals etc) - Kits available from Sprint Manufacturing or your Local Triumph Dealer.

        Don't use Triumph replacement lines as they cost a fortune - Goodridge are a good alternative.

        Other members have had success with using the 6-Pot Caliper (Tochiko - I think) which comes from A N Other bike entirely.
        If you do swap calipers make sure they are correctly aligned with the discs on the wheel by using appropriate shims on the caliper mounting bolts.

        Hope this helps. More useful info forthcoming - no doubt

        The Good Book of Haynes (GBoH) #2162 is a useful reference

        Cheers
        Gordon
        2xBBB 1xTiger 800
        Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK

        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "angusbain2000" <angusbain2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, i have just purchased a 900 Trophy not running and thought now would be a good time ask a few questions. I had read online that one of the weak points with the Trophy 900 (maybe 1200 as well?) is the front calipers are a bit weak under sports/quick riding, so i wondered if this is true? and has anybody measured the caliper bolt pattern and gone out and found some thing else (most likely off a large Jp bike) that will bolt straight on that has bigger pistons or more pistons (ie. 6pot) and improves braking dramatically with out having to change brake lines or the master cylinder. thanks.
        >
      • Samuel Crider
        So, is there an appropriate year/model to fleece for dual brake hoses and a dual outlet master cylinder ?? Btw, the six pots did provide a welcome improvement
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 31, 2013
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          So, is there an appropriate year/model to fleece for dual brake hoses and a dual outlet master cylinder ?? Btw, the six pots did provide a welcome  improvement in my case. But when it comes to brakes the more the merrier..

          Samuel

          On Jul 31, 2013 7:06 AM, "gordon2xbbb" <gordon.smith29@...> wrote:
          Hi Angus,

          Whilst I don't have experience of extreme Sports/Quick riding on either of my BBB's I would say that there are a couple of points to look out for...
          Is yours a MkI (single headlight, 18" wheels)
          a MkIa (single headlight, 17" wheels) or a MkII (Twin Headlight, 17" wheels) ?

          The 18" wheels have solid discs and 2-pot calipers, the 17" wheels, floating discs and 4-pot calipers.

          Each Front Brake system has three hydraulic lines which meet at a Splitter Block mounted on the front of the bottom yoke. This Splitter block is awful, gets clogged with rusty sludge and makes bleeding the front brakes a "bleeding" nightmare. Junk the splitter and go for a Two-Line system from the Master Cylinder to each caliper.

          Master Cylinder performance greatly improved by just doing a Service on it (They are at least 15 years old now and will need new seals etc) - Kits available from Sprint Manufacturing or your Local Triumph Dealer.

          Don't use Triumph replacement lines as they cost a fortune - Goodridge are a good alternative.

          Other members have had success with using the 6-Pot Caliper (Tochiko - I think) which comes from A N Other bike entirely.
          If you do swap calipers make sure they are correctly aligned with the discs on the wheel by using appropriate shims on the caliper mounting bolts.

          Hope this helps. More useful info forthcoming - no doubt

          The Good Book of Haynes (GBoH) #2162 is a useful reference

          Cheers
          Gordon
          2xBBB 1xTiger 800
          Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK

          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "angusbain2000" <angusbain2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, i have just purchased a 900 Trophy not running and thought now would be a good time ask a few questions. I had read online that one of the weak points with the Trophy 900 (maybe 1200 as well?) is the front calipers are a bit weak under sports/quick riding, so i wondered if this is true? and has anybody measured the caliper bolt pattern and gone out and found some thing else (most likely off a large Jp bike) that will bolt straight on that has bigger pistons or more pistons (ie. 6pot) and improves braking dramatically with out having to change brake lines or the master cylinder. thanks.
          >




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        • Daniel Barclay
          Try
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 31, 2013
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            Try

            http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XTokico+hayabusa+brake+calipers&_nkw=Tokico+hayabusa+brake+calipers&_sacat=0&_from=R40

            For a source noting the interbolt spacing which from memory is 90mm as the only critical dim.(please check this) There is another later type to avoid but it is completely different and impossible to confuse. See pictures above.

            Suggest you get a serviceable pair as new pads and seals will set you back an additional 100 ukl easy.

            I fleeced a 99 for a 95. (hoses) The 99 has the longer banjo on one caliper and a short hose connected across the top of the mudguard. (split at the caliper). There is another way which is probably the best and that is to take two full length hoses down from the master and put the longer banjo in the master (split at the master)

            Reverse gravity fill is EASY (easiest ever method) and bubbles are forced to rise with the flow rather than against it. You have to make a cut open clear container fit to a clear hose and connect to the lower bleed nipple(s). Fill the container and slowly lift it past the height of the nipples. Raise it and top it up till you reach master cylinder height. Voila done as easy as that. I then further raised and lowered it and sluiced the fluid back and forth shifting micro bubbles.

            It is totally a zen type calm operation no squirty squirts on your paintwork as the clear container can be away from the bike by any distance as long as you raise it to the height of the master cylinder. At equal heights it takes about 20 secs for fluid to appear. And as long as the container fluid level does not exceed master height it does not spill.
            Avoids all the opening and closing and pumping etc...

            Result - well the other day I caught myself holding the throttle with thumb and forefinger whilst braking with my outer two fingers with my forefinger inside the brake lever - whilst having the thought that would my forefinger have to be crushed for a full on emergency stop. Later I worked out that the method I had inadvertently adopted was viable....allowing to go from brakes to throttle instantly and vis a versa. Or feathering both....Ahm....

            Enjoy
            Dan


            you need to talk to Harry for a good source of bits in the uk - he did the master split but these are common parts





            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:
            >
            > So, is there an appropriate year/model to fleece for dual brake hoses and a
            > dual outlet master cylinder ?? Btw, the six pots did provide a welcome
            > improvement in my case. But when it comes to brakes the more the merrier..
            >
            > Samuel
            > On Jul 31, 2013 7:06 AM, "gordon2xbbb" <gordon.smith29@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > Hi Angus,
            > >
          • russ.nurse@sky.com
            brakes off a hayabusa bolt straight on, giving you 6 pots and one finger braking.   Russ Nurse brakes off a hayabusa bolt straight on, giving you 6 pots and
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 31, 2013
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              brakes off a hayabusa bolt straight on, giving you 6 pots and one finger braking.
               
              Russ Nurse
            • gluman3
              Change the brake pads to HH pads and it will feel like you added power brakes. EBC is a good brand to consider.
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 3, 2013
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                Change the brake pads to HH pads and it will feel like you added power brakes. EBC is a good brand to consider.

                --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "angusbain2000" <angusbain2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, i have just purchased a 900 Trophy not running and thought now would be a good time ask a few questions. I had read online that one of the weak points with the Trophy 900 (maybe 1200 as well?) is the front calipers are a bit weak under sports/quick riding, so i wondered if this is true? and has anybody measured the caliper bolt pattern and gone out and found some thing else (most likely off a large Jp bike) that will bolt straight on that has bigger pistons or more pistons (ie. 6pot) and improves braking dramatically with out having to change brake lines or the master cylinder. thanks.
                >
              • Daniel Barclay
                I have heard two trophy riders recently describe the HH pads falling apart....although I dont know if they were suffering from trophy caliper . In any event
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 3, 2013
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                  I have heard two trophy riders recently describe the HH pads falling apart....although I dont know if they were suffering from "trophy caliper". In any event aren't most brake pads the same and just distinguished by the marketing only?

                  Dan


                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "gluman3" <1triumphrider@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Change the brake pads to HH pads and it will feel like you added power brakes. EBC is a good brand to consider.
                  >
                  > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "angusbain2000" <angusbain2000@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi, i have just purchased a 900 Trophy not running and thought now would be a good time ask a few questions. I had read online that one of the weak points with the Trophy 900 (maybe 1200 as well?) is the front calipers are a bit weak under sports/quick riding, so i wondered if this is true? and has anybody measured the caliper bolt pattern and gone out and found some thing else (most likely off a large Jp bike) that will bolt straight on that has bigger pistons or more pistons (ie. 6pot) and improves braking dramatically with out having to change brake lines or the master cylinder. thanks.
                  > >
                  >
                • rick
                  ... As others have mentioned, change the pads over HH+, but keep the stock calipers. I tried most of the HH+ pads, including EBS and Galphers. Dunlopads is
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 4, 2013
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                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "angusbain2000" <angusbain2000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi, i have just purchased a 900 Trophy not running ... I had read online that one of the weak points with the Trophy 900 (maybe 1200 as well?) is the front calipers are a bit weak ...

                    As others have mentioned, change the pads over HH+, but keep the stock calipers. I tried most of the HH+ pads, including EBS and Galphers. Dunlopads is the best in my experience, and give a noticibly stronger and fade free performance.

                    I put a set of 6 pot calipers on - they bolt straight on off a Hayabusa and some other bikes. I was underwhelmed to be honest, although some like them. I took them off, went back to stock calipers with Dunlop HH+ and have all the braking performance I could ever use.

                    Good luck.
                  • gluman3
                    They may have purchased cheap Chinese knock of HH pads. I have seen them on eBay. Be sure to buy a known brand name in original packaging. A company like
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 4, 2013
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                      They may have purchased cheap Chinese knock of "HH" pads. I have seen them on eBay. Be sure to buy a known brand name in original packaging. A company like EBC could not afford the bad press and liability from their products "falling apart".

                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Barclay" <adeux60@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have heard two trophy riders recently describe the HH pads falling apart....although I dont know if they were suffering from "trophy caliper". In any event aren't most brake pads the same and just distinguished by the marketing only?
                      >
                      > Dan
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