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Fwd: [TriumphTrophy] Possible/probable coil solution

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  • Ed Johnson
    Hi Gang: I ve taken the liberty of making the modifications that Glenn mentioned to the URL s so that if all goes well when I forward this message back to the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 26, 2013
      Hi Gang:
          I've taken the liberty of making the modifications that Glenn mentioned to the URL's so that if all goes well when I forward this message back to the forum the pictures should now be clickable links.
      I too am a nut for trying things. Being old and retired does have it's benefits when it's too hot to ride or play golf! :-D

      Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB


      -------- Original Message --------
      Subject:[TriumphTrophy] Possible/probable coil solution
      Date:Wed, 26 Jun 2013 09:57:10 -0000
      From:slovcan <slovcan@...>
      Reply-To:TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
      To:TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com


      Ho folks,

      One of the guys on our V4 Honda forum has tested a coil solution and it has PASSED the test. The solution is COP (Coil On Plug) or otherwise known as "stick coils". Our V4 engines use a wasted spark system with ignitor box(es) like the BBBB (2 coils for 4 cylinders). They are 4 ohm resistance coils. For us we would need the longer coil sticks (~5 inch), I think, as the spark plugs are quite deep in the head. This solution is so simple it is ridiculous and thanks to our man Hopit88 for discovering it and proving it works. Here is a link to a set on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-OEM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr . Here is his write-up:

      In my never ending quest to fight modding boredom and to lose my 28 year old stock coils, I decided to try some modern stick coils on the old girl. I haven't seen it done on the 1st gens so I didn't have much to go on. I bought a set from a CBR along with a harness...$40. Wired in series, they ohm out almost exactly as the stockers. A buddy has 10k miles on a set on his Connie with the same ignition system as my R with no issues so I figured WTH.

      First I made a custom harness using the CBR connectors. 

      I needed to seal the coil in the spark plug opening so I grabbed a grommet from the PO...

      and trimmed off one of the flanges.

      Here's how it seals in the hole...nice and tight.

      On the inlines, the valve cover helps hold the coil in place, but the R's head is dished out around the plug so I needed to steady the coil. I cut some heater hose and made a sleeve to wedge the coil into the head. 
      Rock solid now.

      Fronts.
      You can see another reason why I went with an updated rad fan(works great by the way), stock fans would hit the coils but the slim line one is no problem after a small modification.

      Rears.
      I temporarily tucked everything away for the test run. I'll make a carbon fiber plate where the old coils use to be to tie down the cables/connections.

      It starts and runs great, all the way to redline. I've got about 100 miles on it and all seems normal. Some claim better starting, better response, blah blah blah. I really just wanted to lose the old coils, pay less money for an upgrade and just see if I could do it. 

      Some may ask why, but I feel it's more fun in life asking why not. 

      This is a REALLY BIG discovery for us Honda V4 guys and I think may have even more value for our Trophies.

      Cheers,
      Glenn


       
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    • garyviggars
      Hi well done. This is something I ve pondered and mused upon before. The only thing that has worried me is the fact that our 1200 motors do run HOT compared to
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 26, 2013
        Hi well done. This is something I've pondered and mused upon before.
        The only thing that has worried me is the fact that our 1200 motors do run HOT compared to other engines.One of the reasons Triumph dropped the 1200 and didn't replace it for years was the centre 2 pots being insufficiently cooled. This is why 2 and 3 are jetted richer ( in order to reduce heat ). They had the same problem with the TT 600. Coil failure according to a source at the factory is related to temp on their early 4 pots.(And the early seizures) . Lots of custom/mod builders move the coils away from the engine because of this.
        SO is the heat gonna fry the stick coils ? Eventually?
        Just something I've mused upon.
      • a2
        well done Glenn - gotta try that
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 26, 2013
          well done Glenn - gotta try that

          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "slovcan" <slovcan@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ho folks,
          > One of the guys on our V4 Honda forum has tested a coil solution and it
          > has PASSED the test. The solution is COP (Coil On Plug) or otherwise
          > known as "stick coils". Our V4 engines use a wasted spark system with
          > ignitor box(es) like the BBBB (2 coils for 4 cylinders). They are 4 ohm
          > resistance coils. For us we would need the longer coil sticks (~5 inch),
          > I think, as the spark plugs are quite deep in the head. This solution is
          > so simple it is ridiculous and thanks to our man Hopit88 for discovering
          > it and proving it works. Here is a link to a set on eBay:
          > http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-O\
          > EM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Access\
          > ories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr
          > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-\
          > OEM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Acces\
          > sories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr> . Here is his write-up:
          > In my never ending quest to fight modding boredom and to lose my 28 year
          > old stock coils, I decided to try some modern stick coils on the old
          > girl. I haven't seen it done on the 1st gens so I didn't have much to go
          > on. I bought a set from a CBR along with a harness...$40. Wired in
          > series, they ohm out almost exactly as the stockers. A buddy has 10k
          > miles on a set on his Connie with the same ignition system as my R with
          > no issues so I figured WTH.
          > First I made a custom harness using the CBR connectors.
          > [img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/e9b29e5c-6e60-48fb\
          > -b062-207ad53945f1_zps54d1cf8c.jpg[/img]
          > I needed to seal the coil in the spark plug opening so I grabbed a
          > grommet from the
          > PO...[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/grommet_zpsb4\
          > 369bc7.jpg[/img]
          > and trimmed off one of the
          > flanges.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/cutgrommet\
          > _zps18943087.jpg[/img]
          > Here's how it seals in the hole...nice and
          > tight.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2862_zps\
          > ce466f8e.jpg[/img]
          > On the inlines, the valve cover helps hold the coil in place, but the
          > R's head is dished out around the plug so I needed to steady the coil. I
          > cut some heater hose and made a sleeve to wedge the coil into the head.
          > Rock solid
          > now.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2863_zps2e\
          > 679d20.jpg[/img]
          > Fronts.You can see another reason why I went with an updated rad
          > fan(works great by the way), stock fans would hit the coils but the slim
          > line one is no problem after a small
          > modification.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2\
          > 866_zps2c3b9910.jpg[/img]
          > Rears.I temporarily tucked everything away for the test run. I'll make a
          > carbon fiber plate where the old coils use to be to tie down the
          > cables/connections.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88\
          > /1f101078-d0f9-4149-ad3e-12638fdc7c04_zps133f9054.jpg[/img]
          > It starts and runs great, all the way to redline. I've got about 100
          > miles on it and all seems normal. Some claim better starting, better
          > response, blah blah blah. I really just wanted to lose the old coils,
          > pay less money for an upgrade and just see if I could do it.
          > Some may ask why, but I feel it's more fun in life asking why not.
          > This is a REALLY BIG discovery for us Honda V4 guys and I think may have
          > even more value for our Trophies.
          > Cheers,Glenn
          >
        • Greg
          Hi Glenn, Last month I took my extra 900 head to the dealer to see if the stick coils would fit. They tried a few but they were all to tall. This might be a
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 26, 2013
            Hi Glenn,
            Last month I took my extra 900 head to the dealer to see if the stick coils would fit. They tried a few but they were all to tall. This might be a possibility if they are short enough.
            http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Daytona-675R-Ignition-Coil-Set-Coils-PFKL1200696-/400516688743?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d40a7ab67&vxp=mtr

            Greg Andrews


            "slovcan" wrote:
            The solution is COP (Coil On Plug) or otherwise known as "stick coils". Our V4 engines use a wasted spark system with ignitor box(es) like the BBBB (2 coils for 4 cylinders). They are 4 ohm resistance coils. For us we would need the longer coil sticks (~5 inch), I think, as the spark plugs are quite deep in the head. This solution is so simple it is ridiculous and thanks to our man Hopit88 for discovering it and proving it works.
            Glenn,
          • a2
            Have I worked out that it can only work on a 1200 as they HAVE to be in series to kee the resistance high enough not to melt the ignitor transistors? If I
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
              Have I worked out that it can only work on a 1200 as they HAVE to be in series to kee the resistance high enough not to melt the ignitor transistors?

              If I tried it then best to put in the old ignitor!!!
              A2


              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2" <adeux60@...> wrote:
              >
              > well done Glenn - gotta try that
              >
              > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "slovcan" <slovcan@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Ho folks,
              > > One of the guys on our V4 Honda forum has tested a coil solution and it
              > > has PASSED the test. The solution is COP (Coil On Plug) or otherwise
              > > known as "stick coils". Our V4 engines use a wasted spark system with
              > > ignitor box(es) like the BBBB (2 coils for 4 cylinders). They are 4 ohm
              > > resistance coils. For us we would need the longer coil sticks (~5 inch),
              > > I think, as the spark plugs are quite deep in the head. This solution is
              > > so simple it is ridiculous and thanks to our man Hopit88 for discovering
              > > it and proving it works. Here is a link to a set on eBay:
              > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-O\
              > > EM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Access\
              > > ories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr
              > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-\
              > > OEM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Acces\
              > > sories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr> . Here is his write-up:
              > > In my never ending quest to fight modding boredom and to lose my 28 year
              > > old stock coils, I decided to try some modern stick coils on the old
              > > girl. I haven't seen it done on the 1st gens so I didn't have much to go
              > > on. I bought a set from a CBR along with a harness...$40. Wired in
              > > series, they ohm out almost exactly as the stockers. A buddy has 10k
              > > miles on a set on his Connie with the same ignition system as my R with
              > > no issues so I figured WTH.
              > > First I made a custom harness using the CBR connectors.
              > > [img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/e9b29e5c-6e60-48fb\
              > > -b062-207ad53945f1_zps54d1cf8c.jpg[/img]
              > > I needed to seal the coil in the spark plug opening so I grabbed a
              > > grommet from the
              > > PO...[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/grommet_zpsb4\
              > > 369bc7.jpg[/img]
              > > and trimmed off one of the
              > > flanges.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/cutgrommet\
              > > _zps18943087.jpg[/img]
              > > Here's how it seals in the hole...nice and
              > > tight.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2862_zps\
              > > ce466f8e.jpg[/img]
              > > On the inlines, the valve cover helps hold the coil in place, but the
              > > R's head is dished out around the plug so I needed to steady the coil. I
              > > cut some heater hose and made a sleeve to wedge the coil into the head.
              > > Rock solid
              > > now.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2863_zps2e\
              > > 679d20.jpg[/img]
              > > Fronts.You can see another reason why I went with an updated rad
              > > fan(works great by the way), stock fans would hit the coils but the slim
              > > line one is no problem after a small
              > > modification.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2\
              > > 866_zps2c3b9910.jpg[/img]
              > > Rears.I temporarily tucked everything away for the test run. I'll make a
              > > carbon fiber plate where the old coils use to be to tie down the
              > > cables/connections.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88\
              > > /1f101078-d0f9-4149-ad3e-12638fdc7c04_zps133f9054.jpg[/img]
              > > It starts and runs great, all the way to redline. I've got about 100
              > > miles on it and all seems normal. Some claim better starting, better
              > > response, blah blah blah. I really just wanted to lose the old coils,
              > > pay less money for an upgrade and just see if I could do it.
              > > Some may ask why, but I feel it's more fun in life asking why not.
              > > This is a REALLY BIG discovery for us Honda V4 guys and I think may have
              > > even more value for our Trophies.
              > > Cheers,Glenn
              > >
              >
            • Samuel Crider
              I d expect them to work fine in either application. Two each wired in parallel for a final .8ohm primary load for the BBBB. Seems close enough to the one of
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013

                I'd expect them to work fine in either application. Two each wired in parallel for a final .8ohm primary load for the BBBB. Seems close enough to the one of .6ohm. Should draw a lower current flow which means less heat on the output switching transistor. As for the BBB I'd think they would be fine with the oem connection.

                Samuel

                On Jun 27, 2013 12:52 PM, "a2" <adeux60@...> wrote:
                Have I worked out that it can only work on a 1200 as they HAVE to be in series to kee the resistance high enough not to melt the ignitor transistors?

                If I tried it then best to put in the old ignitor!!!
                A2


                --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2" <adeux60@...> wrote:
                >
                > well done Glenn - gotta try that
                >
                > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "slovcan" <slovcan@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Ho folks,
                > > One of the guys on our V4 Honda forum has tested a coil solution and it
                > > has PASSED the test. The solution is COP (Coil On Plug) or otherwise
                > > known as "stick coils". Our V4 engines use a wasted spark system with
                > > ignitor box(es) like the BBBB (2 coils for 4 cylinders). They are 4 ohm
                > > resistance coils. For us we would need the longer coil sticks (~5 inch),
                > > I think, as the spark plugs are quite deep in the head. This solution is
                > > so simple it is ridiculous and thanks to our man Hopit88 for discovering
                > > it and proving it works. Here is a link to a set on eBay:
                > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-O\
                > > EM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Access\
                > > ories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr
                > > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-05-06-Honda-CBR600-F4i-CBR600F4-F4-\
                > > OEM-tested-coil-sticks-ignition-/321147015557?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Acces\
                > > sories&hash=item4ac5da9185&vxp=mtr>  . Here is his write-up:
                > > In my never ending quest to fight modding boredom and to lose my 28 year
                > > old stock coils, I decided to try some modern stick coils on the old
                > > girl. I haven't seen it done on the 1st gens so I didn't have much to go
                > > on. I bought a set from a CBR along with a harness...$40. Wired in
                > > series, they ohm out almost exactly as the stockers. A buddy has 10k
                > > miles on a set on his Connie with the same ignition system as my R with
                > > no issues so I figured WTH.
                > > First I made a custom harness using the CBR connectors.
                > > [img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/e9b29e5c-6e60-48fb\
                > > -b062-207ad53945f1_zps54d1cf8c.jpg[/img]
                > > I needed to seal the coil in the spark plug opening so I grabbed a
                > > grommet from the
                > > PO...[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/grommet_zpsb4\
                > > 369bc7.jpg[/img]
                > > and trimmed off one of the
                > > flanges.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/cutgrommet\
                > > _zps18943087.jpg[/img]
                > > Here's how it seals in the hole...nice and
                > > tight.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2862_zps\
                > > ce466f8e.jpg[/img]
                > > On the inlines, the valve cover helps hold the coil in place, but the
                > > R's head is dished out around the plug so I needed to steady the coil. I
                > > cut some heater hose and made a sleeve to wedge the coil into the head.
                > > Rock solid
                > > now.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2863_zps2e\
                > > 679d20.jpg[/img]
                > > Fronts.You can see another reason why I went with an updated rad
                > > fan(works great by the way), stock fans would hit the coils but the slim
                > > line one is no problem after a small
                > > modification.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88/IMG_2\
                > > 866_zps2c3b9910.jpg[/img]
                > > Rears.I temporarily tucked everything away for the test run. I'll make a
                > > carbon fiber plate where the old coils use to be to tie down the
                > > cables/connections.[img]http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/hopit88\
                > > /1f101078-d0f9-4149-ad3e-12638fdc7c04_zps133f9054.jpg[/img]
                > > It starts and runs great, all the way to redline. I've got about 100
                > > miles on it and all seems normal. Some claim better starting, better
                > > response, blah blah blah. I really just wanted to lose the old coils,
                > > pay less money for an upgrade and just see if I could do it.
                > > Some may ask why, but I feel it's more fun in life asking why not.
                > > This is a REALLY BIG discovery for us Honda V4 guys and I think may have
                > > even more value for our Trophies.
                > > Cheers,Glenn
                > >
                >




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