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Re: my '99 Trophy 900 engine continues to sputter

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  • gordon2xbbb
    Hans, With symptoms such as these it is all too easy to forget some fundamentals and I for one, have had to endure two laps of the Ignition/Carburation system
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 6, 2013
      Hans,

      With symptoms such as these it is all too easy to forget some fundamentals and I for one, have had to endure two laps of the Ignition/Carburation system before a similar fault was found on my MkI BBB.

      Fuel 'starvation like' symptoms CAN be caused by blocked vents in the Filler Cap - you have to dissassemble it to clean them out properly - and also the Drain/Vent tube which runs from beneath the Filler Cap, through the tank itself via a (welded in) metal tube and exits at the lower rear right hand corner. The rubber hose on the end of this outlet also needs to be clear of gunk and obstructions.

      If AIR cannot get back into the Tank to replace the fuel this is used then you have reduced outflow. If your Filler Cap whistles at you from time to time or there is a great in-rush of air when you open the Filler cap after a run then I'd get that sorted..PDQ

      And the old adage that 90% of all fuel problems are electrical still holds true, so don't discount things like the KILL Switch. It's THE major player in the Interlock System and if you don't use it very often, like 99% of us, (Emergencies Only) then the contacts will take on a surface patina which needs cleaning off from time to time. A good quality Contact Cleaner (rather than WD40) sprayed into the Kill Switch Contact assembly will set it up nicely for you to exercise that switch a few dozen times (in the first instance) and a few flicks back and forth once a week will keep those contacts shiny.
      Dirty contacts in the Kill Switch become vibration/frequency dependant in my experience and I spent a considerable time chasing a 'spluttering' type fault before the 'penny dropped'....

      I'd hate for anyone else to endure the frustration I went through - when to solution(s) are so easy to achieve..

      Hope this helps,
      Cheers
      Gordon
      2xBBB, 1xTiger 800 Road
      Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
    • hanslust440
      Dear Gordon, Thanks for all the hints. I ll check everything during the weekend. There is one thing I like to ask you. I mentioned that one of the headlights
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 6, 2013
        Dear Gordon,

        Thanks for all the hints. I'll check everything during the weekend. There is one thing I like to ask you. I mentioned that one of the headlights doesn't work. When I looked at it a little closer, I saw that the socket of the lamp is melted away. Could that be the reason of the sputtering engine?

        Kind regards,
        Hans Lust


        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "gordon2xbbb" <gordon.smith29@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hans,
        >
        > With symptoms such as these it is all too easy to forget some fundamentals and I for one, have had to endure two laps of the Ignition/Carburation system before a similar fault was found on my MkI BBB.
        >
        > Fuel 'starvation like' symptoms CAN be caused by blocked vents in the Filler Cap - you have to dissassemble it to clean them out properly - and also the Drain/Vent tube which runs from beneath the Filler Cap, through the tank itself via a (welded in) metal tube and exits at the lower rear right hand corner. The rubber hose on the end of this outlet also needs to be clear of gunk and obstructions.
        >
        > If AIR cannot get back into the Tank to replace the fuel this is used then you have reduced outflow. If your Filler Cap whistles at you from time to time or there is a great in-rush of air when you open the Filler cap after a run then I'd get that sorted..PDQ
        >
        > And the old adage that 90% of all fuel problems are electrical still holds true, so don't discount things like the KILL Switch. It's THE major player in the Interlock System and if you don't use it very often, like 99% of us, (Emergencies Only) then the contacts will take on a surface patina which needs cleaning off from time to time. A good quality Contact Cleaner (rather than WD40) sprayed into the Kill Switch Contact assembly will set it up nicely for you to exercise that switch a few dozen times (in the first instance) and a few flicks back and forth once a week will keep those contacts shiny.
        > Dirty contacts in the Kill Switch become vibration/frequency dependant in my experience and I spent a considerable time chasing a 'spluttering' type fault before the 'penny dropped'....
        >
        > I'd hate for anyone else to endure the frustration I went through - when to solution(s) are so easy to achieve..
        >
        > Hope this helps,
        > Cheers
        > Gordon
        > 2xBBB, 1xTiger 800 Road
        > Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
        >
      • Samuel Crider
        Hey Hans, That s usually a sign of someone having installed higher wattage bulbs. Which is not good. Check the tail light bulb also as they tend to get up
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 6, 2013

          Hey Hans,

          That's usually a sign of someone having installed higher wattage bulbs. Which is not good. Check the tail light bulb also as they tend to get up sized as well. As for causing the issue it's possible. I'd check to be sure all of the fuses are the proper size.

          Find a junk auto that uses the same bulb size and cut out the connection harness. Solder it in and if your lucky the harness will end up longer than the oem. Be gently with the bulb twist lock retaining.rings as they break easily.

          Best of luck,
          Samuel

          On Jun 6, 2013 4:43 PM, "hanslust440" <hanslust440@...> wrote:
          Dear Gordon,

          Thanks for all the hints. I'll check everything during the weekend. There is one thing I like to ask you. I mentioned that one of the headlights doesn't work. When I looked at it a little closer, I saw that the socket of the lamp is melted away. Could that be the reason of the sputtering engine?

          Kind regards,
          Hans Lust


          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "gordon2xbbb" <gordon.smith29@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hans,
          >
          > With symptoms such as these it is all too easy to forget some fundamentals and I for one, have had to endure two laps of the Ignition/Carburation system before a similar fault was found on my MkI BBB.
          >
          > Fuel 'starvation like' symptoms CAN be caused by blocked vents in the Filler Cap - you have to dissassemble it to clean them out properly - and also the Drain/Vent tube which runs from beneath the Filler Cap, through the tank itself via a (welded in) metal tube and exits at the lower rear right hand corner. The rubber hose on the end of this outlet also needs to be clear of gunk and obstructions.
          >
          > If AIR cannot get back into the Tank to replace the fuel this is used then you have reduced outflow. If your Filler Cap whistles at you from time to time or there is a great in-rush of air when you open the Filler cap after a run then I'd get that sorted..PDQ
          >
          > And the old adage that 90% of all fuel problems are electrical still holds true, so don't discount things like the KILL Switch. It's THE major player in the Interlock System and if you don't use it very often, like 99% of us, (Emergencies Only) then the contacts will take on a surface patina which needs cleaning off from time to time. A good quality Contact Cleaner (rather than WD40) sprayed into the Kill Switch Contact assembly will set it up nicely for you to exercise that switch a few dozen times (in the first instance) and a few flicks back and forth once a week will keep those contacts shiny.
          > Dirty contacts in the Kill Switch become vibration/frequency dependant in my experience and I spent a considerable time chasing a 'spluttering' type fault before the 'penny dropped'....
          >
          > I'd hate for anyone else to endure the frustration I went through - when to solution(s) are so easy to achieve..
          >
          > Hope this helps,
          > Cheers
          > Gordon
          > 2xBBB, 1xTiger 800 Road
          > Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
          >




          ------------------------------------

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        • a2
          I reckon the voltage drop was sufficient to switch off the ignitor. The only problem with the Johnson jolt is further reliance on an additional relay.....My
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 6, 2013
            I reckon the voltage drop was sufficient to "switch off" the ignitor. The only problem with the Johnson jolt is further reliance on an additional relay.....My way of wiring relayed it from the starter circuit so it got the benefit whilst the starter was depressed....in my situation is started then stalled....

            The jj targets voltage to the coils and I think targeting the ignitor would be a better approach.

            A2



            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, seems about what I recall last time I had the tank up. I wonder what
            > the turns ratio is on the coils? A few volts likely equates to a sizeable
            > difference in secondary output voltages. Which certainly should make for
            > faster starts. I figure I'll leave well enough alone. At least until an
            > issue develops. As I'm nervous about the stresses placed upon the sprag.
            >
          • a2
            Renew your relays too Hans. Make sure you orientate them to drain water. Note there are two types of relays out there and the type is noted in the FAQ. I
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 6, 2013
              Renew your relays too Hans. Make sure you orientate them to drain water. Note there are two types of relays out there and the type is noted in the FAQ. I always buy both and work it out afterwards although you can also move the pins.


              A2

              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Hans,
              >
              > That's usually a sign of someone having installed higher wattage bulbs.
              > Which is not good. Check the tail light bulb also as they tend to get up
              > sized as well. As for causing the issue it's possible. I'd check to be sure
              > all of the fuses are the proper size.
              >
              > Find a junk auto that uses the same bulb size and cut out the connection
              > harness. Solder it in and if your lucky the harness will end up longer than
              > the oem. Be gently with the bulb twist lock retaining.rings as they break
              > easily.
              >
            • a2
              Also check the alarm or lack of.....the substituted link can fail and soldering out the connection is advised. Adjacent to the battery white plug and alarm
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 6, 2013
                Also check the alarm or lack of.....the substituted link can fail and soldering out the connection is advised. Adjacent to the battery white plug and alarm loop..
                A2


                --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2" <adeux60@...> wrote:
                >
                > Renew your relays too Hans. Make sure you orientate them to drain water. Note there are two types of relays out there and the type is noted in the FAQ. I always buy both and work it out afterwards although you can also move the pins.
                >
                >
                > A2
                >
                > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hey Hans,
                > >
                > > That's usually a sign of someone having installed higher wattage bulbs.
                > > Which is not good. Check the tail light bulb also as they tend to get up
                > > sized as well. As for causing the issue it's possible. I'd check to be sure
                > > all of the fuses are the proper size.
                > >
                > > Find a junk auto that uses the same bulb size and cut out the connection
                > > harness. Solder it in and if your lucky the harness will end up longer than
                > > the oem. Be gently with the bulb twist lock retaining.rings as they break
                > > easily.
                > >
                >
              • gordon2xbbb
                I had that on my MkII - and it s down to the difficulty in properly re-fitting the bulb connector after a bulb change - it s a bit difficult if you don t first
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 7, 2013
                  I had that on my MkII - and it's down to the difficulty in properly re-fitting the bulb connector after a bulb change - it's a bit difficult if you don't first remove the Chin-Piece at the very least, plus you'll be working blind and possibly back to front as well.

                  If the connector was NOT refitted correctly then electrical 'arcing' will occur which will raise the surface temperature of the connectors and contacts - causing the connector body or carrier to get very hot, smoulder and burn away....

                  My personal preference is to remove the whole Nose Section of the fairing - but I do have a garage and that makes sense to me..

                  I doubt very much that this would cause the engine stuttering - as it's on a different electrical circuit to the Ignition - but you might want to check ALL the Fuses and give the blades a buffing over, just in case.

                  A2s' point about the Alarm connector bypass (in front of the battery) is very valid - If there is no alarm fitted these wires will be twisted together, when to follow 'best practice' they should be soldered..

                  All the best

                  Gordon
                  2xBBB, 1xTiger 800
                  Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK

                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "hanslust440" <hanslust440@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Gordon,
                  >
                  > Thanks for all the hints. I'll check everything during the weekend. There is one thing I like to ask you. I mentioned that one of the headlights doesn't work. When I looked at it a little closer, I saw that the socket of the lamp is melted away. Could that be the reason of the sputtering engine?
                  >
                  > Kind regards,
                  > Hans Lust
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "gordon2xbbb" <gordon.smith29@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hans,
                  > >
                  > > With symptoms such as these it is all too easy to forget some fundamentals and I for one, have had to endure two laps of the Ignition/Carburation system before a similar fault was found on my MkI BBB.
                  > >
                  > > Fuel 'starvation like' symptoms CAN be caused by blocked vents in the Filler Cap - you have to dissassemble it to clean them out properly - and also the Drain/Vent tube which runs from beneath the Filler Cap, through the tank itself via a (welded in) metal tube and exits at the lower rear right hand corner. The rubber hose on the end of this outlet also needs to be clear of gunk and obstructions.
                  > >
                  > > If AIR cannot get back into the Tank to replace the fuel this is used then you have reduced outflow. If your Filler Cap whistles at you from time to time or there is a great in-rush of air when you open the Filler cap after a run then I'd get that sorted..PDQ
                  > >
                  > > And the old adage that 90% of all fuel problems are electrical still holds true, so don't discount things like the KILL Switch. It's THE major player in the Interlock System and if you don't use it very often, like 99% of us, (Emergencies Only) then the contacts will take on a surface patina which needs cleaning off from time to time. A good quality Contact Cleaner (rather than WD40) sprayed into the Kill Switch Contact assembly will set it up nicely for you to exercise that switch a few dozen times (in the first instance) and a few flicks back and forth once a week will keep those contacts shiny.
                  > > Dirty contacts in the Kill Switch become vibration/frequency dependant in my experience and I spent a considerable time chasing a 'spluttering' type fault before the 'penny dropped'....
                  > >
                  > > I'd hate for anyone else to endure the frustration I went through - when to solution(s) are so easy to achieve..
                  > >
                  > > Hope this helps,
                  > > Cheers
                  > > Gordon
                  > > 2xBBB, 1xTiger 800 Road
                  > > Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
                  > >
                  >
                • slovcan
                  Actually, the alarm bypass from the factory is a mating white molex plug with single black jumper wire in it. The most positive solution is to snip the 2 wires
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 7, 2013
                    Actually, the alarm bypass from the factory is a mating white molex plug with single black jumper wire in it. The most positive solution is to snip the 2 wires on the harness side of the plug (which connect to the black jumper wire) and twist AND solder them together (and insulate). This eliminates the possibility of poor contact in the jumper plug.

                    Hans, you never know, I may be riding through Belgium someday.

                    Cheers,
                    Glenn

                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "gordon2xbbb" wrote:
                    >
                    > I had that on my MkII - and it's down to the difficulty in properly re-fitting the bulb connector after a bulb change - it's a bit difficult if you don't first remove the Chin-Piece at the very least, plus you'll be working blind and possibly back to front as well.
                    >
                    > If the connector was NOT refitted correctly then electrical 'arcing' will occur which will raise the surface temperature of the connectors and contacts - causing the connector body or carrier to get very hot, smoulder and burn away....
                    >
                    > My personal preference is to remove the whole Nose Section of the fairing - but I do have a garage and that makes sense to me..
                    >
                    > I doubt very much that this would cause the engine stuttering - as it's on a different electrical circuit to the Ignition - but you might want to check ALL the Fuses and give the blades a buffing over, just in case.
                    >
                    > A2s' point about the Alarm connector bypass (in front of the battery) is very valid - If there is no alarm fitted these wires will be twisted together, when to follow 'best practice' they should be soldered..
                    >
                    > All the best
                    >
                    > Gordon
                    > 2xBBB, 1xTiger 800
                    > Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK
                    >
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