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Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?

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  • joan tabberer
    Hi Jason, have you tried pulling out all of the fuses in the fuse box except for the master fuse and replacing them one by one, to see if you can localise the
    Message 1 of 15 , May 7, 2013
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      Hi Jason,
      have you tried pulling out all of the fuses in the fuse box except for the master fuse and replacing them one by one, to see if you can localise the fault that way?
       
      or if you can, butcher a dead fuse to get the two blades out,  solder some wires to the blades and the other ends to a headlamp bulb, and plug the headlamp bulb in, instead of the fuse, then when you switch the ignition, on, you will get a bright light, because the lamp is acting like a current limiter... then you can pull the various connectors apart, trying to make the light go out...
       
      I would start off without any other fuses in place, and see if the fault persists...
       
      hope this makes sense.
      regards Joan

      From: Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...>
      To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013, 0:38
      Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?
       
      Hi Jason,
      Not sure which side of the pond your located. But if you can switch off the headlights. Insert a 15 a fuse and try her again. Also as stated above disconnect the alternator/regulator. Then proceed with pulling one fuse at a time until the short vanishes. This should narrow it down to a specific area. To answer your question concerning the ignition switch. Yes they can short as well as bridge connections which were never intended to be connected. Hopefully it's still functional but you could certainly disconnect it to see it the short disappears. Never pulled mine loose yet so I'm not sure as to the pita factor. Also, I believe you can buy a resetable circuit breaker with subs for the fuse. Might save a hand full of fuses in the long run. Keep us informed.
      Best of luck,
      Samuel
      On May 7, 2013 5:55 PM, <nigelpk@...> wrote:
      Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.

      Cheers nigel
      99 BBBB nwuk
      Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

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    • Jason Hart
      Thanks for all your suggestions ... I ll try these tomorrow. I m in Toronto Canada and the headlamp (low beam) is wired to go on as soon as the ignition switch
      Message 2 of 15 , May 7, 2013
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        Thanks for all your suggestions ... I'll try these tomorrow. I'm in Toronto Canada and the headlamp (low beam) is wired to go on as soon as the ignition switch is turned on. I'm guessing I'm going to need a handful of 30 amp fuses ... although the headlamp idea seems worth while trying if I can't get to it after  a few more  tries. I'll pull all the other fuses to try and isolate the area to rule out other possible shorts (great idea). I'm leaning toward the switch due to the issues I've had with it ... getting out will be a PITA but must be done... I'll let you all know the outcome.
        Jason


        From: joan tabberer <rebullet@...>
        To: "TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com" <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 7:57:14 PM
        Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?

         
        Hi Jason,
        have you tried pulling out all of the fuses in the fuse box except for the master fuse and replacing them one by one, to see if you can localise the fault that way?
         
        or if you can, butcher a dead fuse to get the two blades out,  solder some wires to the blades and the other ends to a headlamp bulb, and plug the headlamp bulb in, instead of the fuse, then when you switch the ignition, on, you will get a bright light, because the lamp is acting like a current limiter... then you can pull the various connectors apart, trying to make the light go out...
         
        I would start off without any other fuses in place, and see if the fault persists...
         
        hope this makes sense.
        regards Joan

        From: Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...>
        To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013, 0:38
        Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?
         
        Hi Jason,
        Not sure which side of the pond your located. But if you can switch off the headlights. Insert a 15 a fuse and try her again. Also as stated above disconnect the alternator/regulator. Then proceed with pulling one fuse at a time until the short vanishes. This should narrow it down to a specific area. To answer your question concerning the ignition switch. Yes they can short as well as bridge connections which were never intended to be connected. Hopefully it's still functional but you could certainly disconnect it to see it the short disappears. Never pulled mine loose yet so I'm not sure as to the pita factor. Also, I believe you can buy a resetable circuit breaker with subs for the fuse. Might save a hand full of fuses in the long run. Keep us informed.
        Best of luck,
        Samuel
        On May 7, 2013 5:55 PM, <nigelpk@...> wrote:
        Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.

        Cheers nigel
        99 BBBB nwuk
        Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

        ------------------------------------

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      • Jack Byers
        Also, sometimes you can get the correct Diose at aradioshack. Just be sure to use a Heat sync , like an alligator clamp to prevent thermal runnaway, and
        Message 3 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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          Also, sometimes you can get the correct Diose at aradioshack. Just be
          sure to use a "Heat sync", like an alligator clamp to prevent thermal
          runnaway, and ruining another diod. Theye are cheap at "Radio Shack
          as well!
          Poppa
          On May 7, 2013, at 3:55 PM, nigelpk@... wrote:

          > Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the
          > rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the
          > alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.
          >
          > Cheers nigel
          > 99 BBBB nwuk
          > Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
          >
          > ------------------------------------
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        • Jack Byers
          A circuit breaker, with a reset function, might be real nice. I ve done it on a couple lights in the past with good results. Of course, It could have just as
          Message 4 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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            A circuit breaker, with a "reset function, might be real nice. I've done it on a couple lights in the past with good results. Of course, It could have just as easily to have a corroded connection that I cleaned up, as all worked fine after it was attended to!!!!! "" Gremlins????? What year i your ride?
             Kindest regards, Poppa Jack
            On May 7, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Samuel Crider wrote:

             

            Hi Jason,

            Not sure which side of the pond your located. But if you can switch off the headlights. Insert a 15 a fuse and try her again. Also as stated above disconnect the alternator/regulator. Then proceed with pulling one fuse at a time until the short vanishes. This should narrow it down to a specific area. To answer your question concerning the ignition switch. Yes they can short as well as bridge connections which were never intended to be connected. Hopefully it's still functional but you could certainly disconnect it to see it the short disappears. Never pulled mine loose yet so I'm not sure as to the pita factor. Also, I believe you can buy a resetable circuit breaker with subs for the fuse. Might save a hand full of fuses in the long run. Keep us informed.

            Best of luck,
            Samuel

            On May 7, 2013 5:55 PM, <nigelpk@...> wrote:
            Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.

            Cheers nigel
            99 BBBB nwuk
            Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

            ------------------------------------

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          • Jason Hart
            1994 Trident - 65,000 miles.  Called a bike shop ... they tell me the ignition switch is $500CDN!! or about $240CDN for a substitute part (will have an
            Message 5 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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              1994 Trident - 65,000 miles.  Called a bike shop ... they tell me the ignition switch is $500CDN!! or about $240CDN for a substitute part (will have an ignition key specific to that switch). Hope I find a cheaper solution or that the issue is a cheaper one that I've missed. Not sure how to verify the switch. There is no short in the off position and the lights are wired to come on in the ON position (Canadian law).  Right now the fuse pops as soon as I switch it ON ... so lights or bike will not work. I can do basic wiring but cant say its my strong suit. Better with mechanical issues....

              Jason



              From: Jack Byers <jackbyers@...>
              To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 12:10:44 PM
              Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?

               
              A circuit breaker, with a "reset function, might be real nice. I've done it on a couple lights in the past with good results. Of course, It could have just as easily to have a corroded connection that I cleaned up, as all worked fine after it was attended to!!!!! "" Gremlins????? What year i your ride?
               Kindest regards, Poppa Jack
              On May 7, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Samuel Crider wrote:

               

              Hi Jason,
              Not sure which side of the pond your located. But if you can switch off the headlights. Insert a 15 a fuse and try her again. Also as stated above disconnect the alternator/regulator. Then proceed with pulling one fuse at a time until the short vanishes. This should narrow it down to a specific area. To answer your question concerning the ignition switch. Yes they can short as well as bridge connections which were never intended to be connected. Hopefully it's still functional but you could certainly disconnect it to see it the short disappears. Never pulled mine loose yet so I'm not sure as to the pita factor. Also, I believe you can buy a resetable circuit breaker with subs for the fuse. Might save a hand full of fuses in the long run. Keep us informed.
              Best of luck,
              Samuel
              On May 7, 2013 5:55 PM, <nigelpk@...> wrote:
              Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.

              Cheers nigel
              99 BBBB nwuk
              Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

              ------------------------------------

              List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a minimum when replying.


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            • nigel_keating
              the ignition switch is $500CDN!! Jason, lets not panic yet. One step at a time. Try the alternator plug first. It is easy to get at on the left side of the
              Message 6 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                "the ignition switch is $500CDN!!"
                Jason, lets not panic yet. One step at a time. Try the alternator plug first. It is easy to get at on the left side of the bike and is black with two wires going to it just around 25 to 50mm from the big black cable. (Just in front of the air box). When the rectifier pack went on mine I had the same symptoms. Very easy fix. However I acknowledge the switch does sound a possible culprit because you said it had been hard to turn.

                In terms of the cost of the switch it is rediculous but in 74 I had a c15 bsa which cost me 25 uk pounds in very good order. The rotary light switch for it cost me 6 uk pounds.
                I remember it well because I only earned 11 pounds a week working in a lab.

                Cheers nigel

                99 BBBB nwuk
                Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
              • Ken Hastie
                ... They haven t actually gone up in price very much over the last 40 years !! (The switch, not the bike. Although anyone who would want a C15 these days
                Message 7 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                  > -----Original Message-----


                  > In terms of the cost of the switch it is rediculous but in 74 I had a
                  > c15 bsa which cost me 25 uk pounds in very good order. The rotary light
                  > switch for it cost me 6 uk pounds.


                  They haven't actually gone up in price very much over the last 40 years !!
                  (The switch, not the bike. Although anyone who would want a C15 these days
                  would only be reliving their youth - the B40 is FAR more powerful 8-)


                  Ken Hastie
                  Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                  and D14 Bantams
                   
                • nigel_keating
                  the B40 is FAR more powerful 8-) Ha! So was a pneumatic road drill and about as likely to make your fingers go numb ;) I agree on the price of parts.
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                    "the B40 is FAR more powerful 8-)"
                    Ha! So was a pneumatic road drill and about as likely to make your fingers go numb ;)
                    I agree on the price of parts. Electrical parts for my commando are very cheap now relatively speaking.

                    Cheers nigel
                    99 BBBB nwuk and 74 interstationary commando mkii
                    Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
                  • Jack Byers
                    Hey Jason, Am I reading this right? They want $500.00 CDN for a key switch? I d replace it with a universal Auto Switch. They worked fine on everything else
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                      Hey Jason,
                         Am I reading this right? They want $500.00 CDN for a key switch? I'd replace it with a universal Auto Switch. They worked fine on everything else I'v ever used them on. They are center off, one way swithch for lights, and "Run", and the other way for no-lites +run. Everything else can be wired the same as before. it may run $20 or $2500, but it'll work!
                        Poppa
                      On May 8, 2013, at 9:46 AM, Jason Hart wrote:

                       

                      1994 Trident - 65,000 miles.  Called a bike shop ... they tell me the ignition switch is $500CDN!! or about $240CDN for a substitute part (will have an ignition key specific to that switch). Hope I find a cheaper solution or that the issue is a cheaper one that I've missed. Not sure how to verify the switch. There is no short in the off position and the lights are wired to come on in the ON position (Canadian law).  Right now the fuse pops as soon as I switch it ON ... so lights or bike will not work. I can do basic wiring but cant say its my strong suit. Better with mechanical issues....

                      Jason



                      From: Jack Byers <jackbyers@...>
                      To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 12:10:44 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?

                       
                      A circuit breaker, with a "reset function, might be real nice. I've done it on a couple lights in the past with good results. Of course, It could have just as easily to have a corroded connection that I cleaned up, as all worked fine after it was attended to!!!!! "" Gremlins????? What year i your ride?
                       Kindest regards, Poppa Jack
                      On May 7, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Samuel Crider wrote:

                       

                      Hi Jason,
                      Not sure which side of the pond your located. But if you can switch off the headlights. Insert a 15 a fuse and try her again. Also as stated above disconnect the alternator/regulator. Then proceed with pulling one fuse at a time until the short vanishes. This should narrow it down to a specific area. To answer your question concerning the ignition switch. Yes they can short as well as bridge connections which were never intended to be connected. Hopefully it's still functional but you could certainly disconnect it to see it the short disappears. Never pulled mine loose yet so I'm not sure as to the pita factor. Also, I believe you can buy a resetable circuit breaker with subs for the fuse. Might save a hand full of fuses in the long run. Keep us informed.
                      Best of luck,
                      Samuel
                      On May 7, 2013 5:55 PM, <nigelpk@...> wrote:
                      Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.

                      Cheers nigel
                      99 BBBB nwuk
                      Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

                      ------------------------------------

                      List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a minimum when replying.


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                    • Jason Hart
                      OK ... finally some good news. Did all your suggestions to isolate the area. Friend came over and with a meter we started undoing each section of wire harness.
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                        OK ... finally some good news. Did all your suggestions to isolate the area. Friend came over and with a meter we started undoing each section of wire harness. Came to the conclusion that the white power wire was shorted somewhere. Switch OK.  In the headlamp undid each harness connection , to switch, to left side grips, to right side grips. Right side had a short (positive to ground). Disconnected wires to front break switch ... wire was touching a bolt from the bracket for the after market windshield and had worn through the insulation. Turned switch on and everything working as far as lights etc. All fuses good!!  Tomorrow will do the wire repair and put the tank, body work etc back and see if the baby runs ... I'm thinking all is good!

                        Thanks for all your support ...
                        Jason 



                        From: "nigelpk@..." <nigelpk@...>
                        To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 1:09:20 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?

                        "the ignition switch is $500CDN!!"
                        Jason, lets not panic yet. One step at a time. Try the alternator plug first. It is easy to get at on the left side of the bike and is black with two wires going to it just around 25 to 50mm from the big black cable. (Just in front of the air box). When the rectifier pack went on mine I had the same symptoms. Very easy fix. However I acknowledge the switch does sound a possible culprit because you said it had been hard to turn.

                        In terms of the cost of the switch it is rediculous but in 74 I had a c15 bsa which cost me 25 uk pounds in very good order. The rotary light switch for it cost me 6 uk pounds.
                        I remember it well because I only earned 11 pounds a week working in a lab.

                        Cheers nigel

                        99 BBBB nwuk
                        Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

                        ------------------------------------

                        List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a minimum when replying.


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                      • Jack Byers
                        Good on ya Jason. Ken might not of understood that I meant the ON/ OFF switch (Run/Stop). I live in humid country too., so Ioften check the run switch.
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 8, 2013
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                          Good on ya Jason. Ken might not of understood  that I meant the "ON/OFF switch (Run/Stop). I live in humid country too., so Ioften check the "run" switch.   Poppa
                          On May 8, 2013, at 6:58 PM, Jason Hart wrote:

                           

                          OK ... finally some good news. Did all your suggestions to isolate the area. Friend came over and with a meter we started undoing each section of wire harness. Came to the conclusion that the white power wire was shorted somewhere. Switch OK.  In the headlamp undid each harness connection , to switch, to left side grips, to right side grips. Right side had a short (positive to ground). Disconnected wires to front break switch ... wire was touching a bolt from the bracket for the after market windshield and had worn through the insulation. Turned switch on and everything working as far as lights etc. All fuses good!!  Tomorrow will do the wire repair and put the tank, body work etc back and see if the baby runs ... I'm thinking all is good!

                          Thanks for all your support ...
                          Jason 



                          From: "nigelpk@..." <nigelpk@...>
                          To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 1:09:20 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?

                          "the ignition switch is $500CDN!!"
                          Jason, lets not panic yet. One step at a time. Try the alternator plug first. It is easy to get at on the left side of the bike and is black with two wires going to it just around 25 to 50mm from the big black cable. (Just in front of the air box). When the rectifier pack went on mine I had the same symptoms. Very easy fix. However I acknowledge the switch does sound a possible culprit because you said it had been hard to turn.

                          In terms of the cost of the switch it is rediculous but in 74 I had a c15 bsa which cost me 25 uk pounds in very good order. The rotary light switch for it cost me 6 uk pounds.
                          I remember it well because I only earned 11 pounds a week working in a lab.

                          Cheers nigel

                          99 BBBB nwuk
                          Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

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                        • a2
                          Not followed this but in case no one has mentioned it - water in the relays - if you do nothing more than hang the relays with wires hanging down you will
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 11, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Not followed this but in case no one has mentioned it - water in the relays - if you do nothing more than hang the relays with wires hanging down you will avoid the problem in the future...

                            Prise them open and check for rust. There are two possible pin layouts for relays so check carefully or buy both types......
                            A2




                            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Jason Hart <biker_jas@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks for all your suggestions ... I'll try these tomorrow. I'm in Toronto Canada and the headlamp (low beam) is wired to go on as soon as the ignition switch is turned on. I'm guessing I'm going to need a handful of 30 amp fuses ... although the headlamp idea seems worth while trying if I can't get to it after  a few more  tries. I'll pull all the other fuses to try and isolate the area to rule out other possible shorts (great idea). I'm leaning toward the switch due to the issues I've had with it ... getting out will be a PITA but must be done... I'll let you all know the outcome.
                            >
                            > Jason
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: joan tabberer <rebullet@...>
                            > To: "TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com" <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 7:57:14 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            > Hi Jason,
                            > have you tried pulling out all of the fuses in the fuse box except for the master fuse and replacing them one by one, to see if you can localise the fault that way?
                            >  
                            > or if you can, butcher a dead fuse to get the two blades out,  solder some wires to the blades and the other ends to a headlamp bulb, and plug the headlamp bulb in, instead of the fuse, then when you switch the ignition, on, you will get a bright light, because the lamp is acting like a current limiter... then you can pull the various connectors apart, trying to make the light go out...
                            >  
                            > I would start off without any other fuses in place, and see if the fault persists...
                            >  
                            > hope this makes sense.
                            > regards Joan
                            >
                            > From: Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...>
                            > To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013, 0:38
                            > Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Main Fuse blows - checked wires but can't find anything?
                            >
                            >  
                            > Hi Jason,
                            > Not sure which side of the pond your located. But if you can switch off the headlights. Insert a 15 a fuse and try her again. Also as stated above disconnect the alternator/regulator. Then proceed with pulling one fuse at a time until the short vanishes. This should narrow it down to a specific area. To answer your question concerning the ignition switch. Yes they can short as well as bridge connections which were never intended to be connected. Hopefully it's still functional but you could certainly disconnect it to see it the short disappears. Never pulled mine loose yet so I'm not sure as to the pita factor. Also, I believe you can buy a resetable circuit breaker with subs for the fuse. Might save a hand full of fuses in the long run. Keep us informed.
                            > Best of luck,
                            > Samuel
                            > On May 7, 2013 5:55 PM, <nigelpk@...> wrote:
                            > Have you tried pulling the plug from the alternator in case the rectifier has shorted? The wire to the main fuse goes to the alternator and the ignition switch so it could be the switch.
                            > >
                            > >Cheers nigel
                            > >99 BBBB nwuk
                            > >Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
                            > >
                            > >------------------------------------
                            > >
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