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Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrical Problems

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  • joan tabberer
    starter motors are peculiar things, they are non linear complex inductive devices. when stalled / stationary,they draw masses of power, because they are
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 24, 2013
      starter motors are peculiar things, they are non linear complex inductive devices.
      when stalled / stationary,they draw masses of power, because they are effectively a near short circuit (essentially an electric heater... :) ). as the motor starts to rotate  and the commutator switches the polarity of the windings, the inductance of the windings comes into effect and this reduces the current drain. at design voltage, in normal conditions the motor spins up quickly and reaches working speed / efficiency quickly,
      with a low battery  the same motor struggles to turn over, and remains in the inefficient electric heater phase  much longer, thereby drawing significantly higher than expected current...  which will cause higher losses in the cbling and battery, effectively further reducing the battery voltage, in a downward spiral...
      the reason you see a reduced terminal voltage on the battery during cranking on the starter motor, is because of the internal resistance of the battery  it's self. the high current causes significant losses  in the battery, (this is usually taken into account in the initial design stages...) however if the bike is outside normal parameters as ouraging beasts tend to be, the losses are cumulative and disadvantageous...
      apart from that, it's dead easy :)
      Joan

      From: "nigelpk@..." <nigelpk@...>
      To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2013, 12:17
      Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrical Problems
       
      Joan, great explanation. I always understood that an electric motor in our case the starter will try and attain its design speed and therefore pull more amps as the voltage drops under load to achieve the wattage required. If it can't maintain its speed it basically becomes a giant resistor and overheats. Is this correct? Otherwise I may have misled Ed in an earlier post when I thought his problem may have been his solenoid or starter motor. I also thought that a faulty solenoid would over time put an increased load on its supply and possibly overheating wires and connectors creating high resistance in the circuit?

      Cheers nigel

      99 BBBB nwuk
      Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
      From: joan tabberer <rebullet@...>
      Sender: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:46:29 +0100 (BST)
      To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com<TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrical Problems

       
      Hi Ed, You say, as the voltage goes down, the current goes up... that's not necessarily true,
       
      If the voltage goes down because of increased resistance in any given circuit, it is likely that the current will also go down, because of the increased resistance. and what will change most significantly is that the power available will also diminish...
       
      in an ideal circuit a 6volt, 36watt lamp will draw 6 amps.
      in an ideal circuit a 12 volt 36 watt lamp will draw 3 amps
      there is no such thing as an ideal circuit... all elements of the circuit have resistance, no matter how small
      in reality there will always be voltage drop in the wiring, switches, connectors etc., we just endeavour to minimise them.
      if we used the same thickness wire in the 6volt example above, as we did in the 12 volt example above, we would have greater losses  in the 6 volt circuit, because there is a higher current flowing.
       
      hope this makes sense...
       
      one item that does work differently is HID lighting, because the HID Ballast, boosts the output voltage to trigger and illuminate the bulb, the current does avtuallt increase as the voltage decreases, because the active electronics in the ballast work harder to boost the output back to the preferred voltage...
      did you know that HID lights take about 23000 volts to strike from cold?, then they warm up and settle down to a much lower voltage...
       
      Regards Joan

      From: Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@...>
      To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, 22 April 2013, 23:41
      Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrical Problems
       
          Another thought Bob is that the voltage drop is causing all these problems because as voltage goes down, current goes up, overloading the components.
      Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
      On 4/22/2013 5:14 PM, Ed Johnson wrote:
          I wouldn't be surprised Bob! It all adds up! Nothing else I did seemed to make any difference.
      Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
      On 4/22/2013 4:27 PM, apsllp@... wrote:
      Bet like the coils, it was wound using wire that wasn't 100% clean.   Could this have been the root of all your troubles from the beginning?

      Blue hairs had better watch out.  Ed's going Riding!

      Bob Clark

      Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone


       
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