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Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: New Years Day Ride and 9 00 update

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  • apsllp@bellsouth.net
    Hello Greg: I Removed coils and measured AT THE COILS, Not the wires. Thers should be resistance between the primary and secondary coil windings. That is how
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 2, 2013
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      Hello Greg:

      I Removed coils and measured AT THE COILS, Not the wires. Thers should be resistance between the primary and secondary coil windings.  That is how a coil works and the manual confirms this. The coils on this bike exceed the 10.5 Ohm spec well in excess of the allowable +/- 10%.

      Was advised against swapping in 1200 coils as one output would not be grounded and was told it would cause damage. And as far as cost goes, rebuilding the carbs is about the same price.

      In 2004 when I last rode dad's bike, before it was stored he had an ignition problem that resembled coils at that time.  It's a fact that the don't fix the selves with time.

      The bike runs exactly the same today.  Hence, I am doing coils FIRST. Regardless of the cost which is a little less than $70.00/ coil.

      I've been down this path before as have others spending lots of time money and aggrivation with carbs only to learn in the end it was Dodgy Coils.

      Eample is Ed Johnson's bike.  He went through hell with multiple sets of carbs over the last 2 or 3 years, only to find his problem was in fact dodgy coils.

      I can have coils this week.  Triumph does not have the carb parts available for at least 3 weeks. I'm going to replace the coils with Nology first.

      I expect I may have to go into the carbs although it did run and it Did idle though very Lumpy.

      Bob Clark
      01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
      96 BRG Thunderbird 900



      Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

      ----- Reply message -----
      From: "Greg" <gandrews@...>
      To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: New Years Day Ride and 900 update
      Date: Wed, Jan 2, 2013 10:12 am


       

      Hi Bob,
      Am I missing something? 2 of 3 show very little resistance. Are you talking about the coil wires? I thought good coil wires have little resistance.

      Based on the cylinder temperatures it looks like 2 of the coils work. Wouldn't cleaning the carbs be cheaper than buying a set of coils? I'd be curious to see if your spare 1200 coil would do the job.

      On carbs that sit for extended periods of time, the little jets plug up with the caramel varnish you found in the tank.

      How is the seating position on the Thunderbird? Is it similar to the Trophy?
      Greg Andrews

      apsllp@... wrote:
      I repaired the fuel tap which Triumph so plainly tells us can't be done....

      The temperature probe tells me that One Cylinder is ice cold, one is warm and the other is HOT. Take off the coils and inspect. One has Green stuff growing out of the coil where the spark plug wire comes out. 2 of 3 show very little resistance via my Ohm meter, with almost a direct short. I'll throw those in the trash.

      Since she does idle (although poorly) I am not going to go into the carbs quite yet. What I poured out of it has a nice caramel tint to it and stunk of old varnish. At least it appears that whatever was in the carbs did not fully dry out.
      Till I know the coils are good, I don't know if the carbs are really bad.
      Bob Clark

    • Ed Johnson
      Good Job Bob; The primary resistance is so low it s almost immeasurable [0.63 ohms] for the average owner. You are correct about the 1200 coils. Check your
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2013
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        Good Job Bob;
            The primary resistance is so low it's almost immeasurable [0.63 ohms] for the average owner. You are correct about the 1200 coils. Check your 1200 coils and you will find infinite resistance between the HT side and the Primary [LT] side. That's because the path to ground on the HT side is through the "other" plug. [The "other" plug being the one that is firing the wasted spark.] If you look in the manual on how to test the 1200 coils you must pull TWO plug wires, connect them to TWO plugs, and ground them both. [This is not all that clear in the Haynes manual however!]
         I may have caused my own problem by trying to test a 1200 coil by hooking it to only one plug at a time and then applying a voltage to the primary side. This process may have been what caused the problem in my right hand coil as it was a Nology coil. As soon as I put the new PVL coils on I had saved as spares, all my problems went away! [ This was after the second set of rebuilt carbs exhibited the same problems I had before installing them.]
            I don't doubt that you may have a coil problem and the big problem with all electronic problems is that they can be intermittent. My electronics instructor told me in the beginning that intermittent problems were an electronic techs biggest nightmare. I do have a question however. Did you test each coil like the Haynes manual says with a spark plug hooked to each coil separately? A trick I found very helpful that I learned from my head mechanic at the golf course was to use a jumper cable to ground the test plug. Hook one end to the base of the plug and the other end to a grounded spot on the engine. This trick is really helpful when you are trying to test a small motor that requires you to pull a cord to turn it over.
            I'd put the new coils on, fresh gas loaded with Seafoam AND Startron and ride the piss out of it! If that doesn't work we can still do the carbs. I've been there and done that so many times now I can almost do it in my sleep and we are not that far apart. At one point I was ready to load my bike up and head for Kansas! Thanks to Greg's patience he talked me through most of it and the results are phenomenal.
        Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
        On 1/2/2013 11:17 AM, apsllp@... wrote:
        Hello Greg:

        I Removed coils and measured AT THE COILS, Not the wires. Thers should be resistance between the primary and secondary coil windings.  That is how a coil works and the manual confirms this. The coils on this bike exceed the 10.5 Ohm spec well in excess of the allowable +/- 10%.

        Was advised against swapping in 1200 coils as one output would not be grounded and was told it would cause damage. And as far as cost goes, rebuilding the carbs is about the same price.

        In 2004 when I last rode dad's bike, before it was stored he had an ignition problem that resembled coils at that time.  It's a fact that the don't fix the selves with time.

        The bike runs exactly the same today.  Hence, I am doing coils FIRST. Regardless of the cost which is a little less than $70.00/ coil.

        I've been down this path before as have others spending lots of time money and aggrivation with carbs only to learn in the end it was Dodgy Coils.

        Eample is Ed Johnson's bike.  He went through hell with multiple sets of carbs over the last 2 or 3 years, only to find his problem was in fact dodgy coils.

        I can have coils this week.  Triumph does not have the carb parts available for at least 3 weeks. I'm going to replace the coils with Nology first.

        I expect I may have to go into the carbs although it did run and it Did idle though very Lumpy.

        Bob Clark
        01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
        96 BRG Thunderbird 900



        Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

         
      • apsllp@bellsouth.net
        My primary to secondary side showed less than 2K Oms resistance Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone ... From: a2 - inoperative emessages
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 3, 2013
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          My primary to secondary side showed less than 2K Oms resistance

          Bob

          Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

          ----- Reply message -----
          From: "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...>
          To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: New Years Day Ride and 900 update
          Date: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 5:22 pm


           

          All 6 of my (900) coils give .6ohm across the Primarys

          and either primary to secondary 9Kohms (just about 10% down)

          that'll do - might try them hot one day.

          A2

          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" wrote:
          >
          > Hi Bob,
          > Am I missing something? 2 of 3 show very little resistance. Are you talking about the coil wires? I thought good coil wires have little resistance.
          >
          > Based on the cylinder temperatures it looks like 2 of the coils work. Wouldn't cleaning the carbs be cheaper than buying a set of coils? I'd be curious to see if your spare 1200 coil would do the job.
          >
          > On carbs that sit for extended periods of time, the little jets plug up with the caramel varnish you found in the tank.
          >
          > How is the seating position on the Thunderbird? Is it similar to the Trophy?
          > Greg Andrews
          >
          >
          > apsllp@ wrote:
          > I repaired the fuel tap which Triumph so plainly tells us can't be done....
          >
          > The temperature probe tells me that One Cylinder is ice cold, one is warm and the other is HOT. Take off the coils and inspect. One has Green stuff growing out of the coil where the spark plug wire comes out. 2 of 3 show very little resistance via my Ohm meter, with almost a direct short. I'll throw those in the trash.
          >
          > Since she does idle (although poorly) I am not going to go into the carbs quite yet. What I poured out of it has a nice caramel tint to it and stunk of old varnish. At least it appears that whatever was in the carbs did not fully dry out.
          > Till I know the coils are good, I don't know if the carbs are really bad.
          > Bob Clark
          >

        • Ed Johnson
          Good Job Bob! You now have full group approval to purchase new coils! ... *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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            Good Job Bob! You now have full group approval to purchase new coils! :-D :-P ;-) 8-)
            Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
            On 1/3/2013 7:16 PM, apsllp@... wrote:
            My primary to secondary side showed less than 2K Oms resistance

            Bob

            Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

            -
             
          • apsllp@bellsouth.net
            The Nology coils will arrive today Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone ... From: Ed Johnson To:
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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              The Nology coils will arrive today

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

              ----- Reply message -----
              From: "Ed Johnson" <edljohnson2@...>
              To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: New Years Day Ride and 900 update
              Date: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 5:04 am


               

              Good Job Bob! You now have full group approval to purchase new coils! :-D :-P ;-) 8-)
              Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
              On 1/3/2013 7:16 PM, apsllp@... wrote:
              My primary to secondary side showed less than 2K Oms resistance

              Bob

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

              -
               
            • Ed Johnson
              We are all waiting with baited breath! :-) ! *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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                We are all waiting with baited breath! :-) !
                Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                On 1/4/2013 6:34 AM, apsllp@... wrote:
                The Nology coils will arrive today

                Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

                ----- Reply message -----
                From: "Ed Johnson" <edljohnson2@...>
                To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: New Years Day Ride and 900 update
                Date: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 5:04 am


                 

                Good Job Bob! You now have full group approval to purchase new coils! :-D :-P ;-) 8-)
                Ed J. 2001Triumph Trophy BBBB
                On 1/3/2013 7:16 PM, apsllp@... wrote:
                My primary to secondary side showed less than 2K Oms resistance

                Bob

                Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

                -
                 

              • a2 - inoperative emessages
                good call - I would have never guessed to measure that till desperate - but it is such a quick check to eliminate. A2
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
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                  good call - I would have never guessed to measure that till desperate - but it is such a quick check to eliminate.

                  A2

                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "apsllp@..." wrote:
                  >
                  > My primary to secondary side showed less than 2K Oms resistance
                  >
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
                  >
                  > ----- Reply message -----
                  > From: "a2 - inoperative emessages"
                  > To:
                  > Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: New Years Day Ride and 900 update
                  > Date: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 5:22 pm
                  > All 6 of my (900) coils give .6ohm across the Primarys
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > and either primary to secondary 9Kohms (just about 10% down)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > that'll do - might try them hot one day.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > A2
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Hi Bob,
                  >
                  > > Am I missing something? 2 of 3 show very little resistance. Are you talking about the coil wires? I thought good coil wires have little resistance.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Based on the cylinder temperatures it looks like 2 of the coils work. Wouldn't cleaning the carbs be cheaper than buying a set of coils? I'd be curious to see if your spare 1200 coil would do the job.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > On carbs that sit for extended periods of time, the little jets plug up with the caramel varnish you found in the tank.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > How is the seating position on the Thunderbird? Is it similar to the Trophy?
                  >
                  > > Greg Andrews
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > apsllp@ wrote:
                  >
                  > > I repaired the fuel tap which Triumph so plainly tells us can't be done....
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > The temperature probe tells me that One Cylinder is ice cold, one is warm and the other is HOT. Take off the coils and inspect. One has Green stuff growing out of the coil where the spark plug wire comes out. 2 of 3 show very little resistance via my Ohm meter, with almost a direct short. I'll throw those in the trash.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Since she does idle (although poorly) I am not going to go into the carbs quite yet. What I poured out of it has a nice caramel tint to it and stunk of old varnish. At least it appears that whatever was in the carbs did not fully dry out.
                  >
                  > > Till I know the coils are good, I don't know if the carbs are really bad.
                  >
                  > > Bob Clark
                  >
                  > >
                  >
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