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Re: 1200 Head Gasket

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  • gluman3
    Good post Mike. Accurate information. If the leak is minor or just a seep and every thing else runs well, I would not replace the head gasket. You are
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 3, 2012
      Good post Mike. Accurate information. If the leak is minor or just a seep and every thing else runs well, I would not replace the head gasket. You are opening a can of worms and will spend more than the bike may be worth. Though I do not like to use stop leak additives in the coolant, it may be a good option in your case...

      Steve
    • a2 - inoperative emessages
      I would appreciate the photos too please A2
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 3, 2012
        I would appreciate the photos too please
        A2


        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.585@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ed
        >
        > I replaced the head gasket on my 01 1200 last winter. It is absolutely
        > doable, however it is not necessarily a task that everyone would be
        > comfortable with. So...
        >
        > 1) Are you comfy removing and re-installing your carbs?
        > 2) Are you comfy doing the valve clearances on your bike?
        > 3) Do you mind going as far as having to remove the cylinder liners? This
        > is an oddball element of the Trophy's design. Wet liners - basically are
        > held in place by the down pressure from the head - they simply sit there in
        > their recesses, sealed in place with Blue Hylomar Sealant . From what I
        > read in service manual, and elsewhere online - if head is disturbed, you
        > must re-seal. I can send you a link to US source of Blue Hylomar (actually
        > - do a search for my prior posts - I posted a link previously).
        >
        > Be sure you buy the upgraded version of the gasket. I had no issues
        > getting my gasket - though dealer first sent one that was damaged in
        > shipping. Replacement had to come from warehouse in GA...shipped to dealer
        > in CA...to then ship to me in MI...took forever. It was not necessary to
        > replace head bolts - confirmed by uh...Steve? a triumph mechanic here on
        > this list, as well as two different dealers I spoke to, as well as per
        > service manual.
        >
        > Removing liners can be tricky if they want to stick in place (mine did). A
        > hardware store expandible pipe plug did the trick to solve that issue.
        >
        > If I recall, your bike has lots of miles on it. I would closely inspect
        > pistons and cylinders. Have them measured for proper tolerances while
        > apart. Also, might want to do a preventive replacement on the cam chain
        > and tensioners while you are in there. Decarbon head and pistons while
        > apart as well.
        >
        > I have lots of pics I took of the project that I can post on the group or
        > email to you directly if you would like.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • a2 - inoperative emessages
        Do you need to consider skimming the head? A2
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 3, 2012
          Do you need to consider skimming the head?
          A2


          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.585@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ed
          >
          > I replaced the head gasket on my 01 1200 last winter. It is absolutely
          > doable, however it is not necessarily a task that everyone would be
          > comfortable with. So...
          >
          > 1) Are you comfy removing and re-installing your carbs?
          > 2) Are you comfy doing the valve clearances on your bike?
          > 3) Do you mind going as far as having to remove the cylinder liners? This
          > is an oddball element of the Trophy's design. Wet liners - basically are
          > held in place by the down pressure from the head - they simply sit there in
          > their recesses, sealed in place with Blue Hylomar Sealant . From what I
          > read in service manual, and elsewhere online - if head is disturbed, you
          > must re-seal. I can send you a link to US source of Blue Hylomar (actually
          > - do a search for my prior posts - I posted a link previously).
          >
          > Be sure you buy the upgraded version of the gasket. I had no issues
          > getting my gasket - though dealer first sent one that was damaged in
          > shipping. Replacement had to come from warehouse in GA...shipped to dealer
          > in CA...to then ship to me in MI...took forever. It was not necessary to
          > replace head bolts - confirmed by uh...Steve? a triumph mechanic here on
          > this list, as well as two different dealers I spoke to, as well as per
          > service manual.
          >
          > Removing liners can be tricky if they want to stick in place (mine did). A
          > hardware store expandible pipe plug did the trick to solve that issue.
          >
          > If I recall, your bike has lots of miles on it. I would closely inspect
          > pistons and cylinders. Have them measured for proper tolerances while
          > apart. Also, might want to do a preventive replacement on the cam chain
          > and tensioners while you are in there. Decarbon head and pistons while
          > apart as well.
          >
          > I have lots of pics I took of the project that I can post on the group or
          > email to you directly if you would like.
          >
          > Mike
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Mike Stephenson
          Steve - there you are! (thanks!). I was hoping you would chime in. I will dig up my pics and email them out as requested (it might take a while...to much
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 3, 2012
            Steve - there you are! (thanks!). I was hoping you would chime in.

            I will dig up my pics and email them out as requested (it might take a
            while...to much stuff going on now!).

            A2 - I suspect that "by the book", a head resurfacing would be proper. In
            my case, I did not do it.

            I hate to admit it, but I have noticed a similar "seeping" to what I
            originally had going on over the summer. Honestly, in some ways, I almost
            wish I had left well enough alone and not done the gasket (as Steve
            suggested) but did not want to take any chances with the bike stranding
            me. It did however force me to get in deep and rather familiar with my new
            to me bike, so was worthwhile for that alone.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • td02460
            Hello all. I ve been away from the board for sometime (no access from work) but when I saw the subject title, I couldn t resist. Triumph paid for 3 head
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 3, 2012
              Hello all. I've been away from the board for sometime (no access from work) but when I saw the subject title, I couldn't resist. Triumph paid for 3 head gasket replacements on my 2001; the last promising to fix the weeping with an improved gasket. Either I didn't get the improved gasket or it didn't work. That was 70K miles ago and it still weeps. My bike has ~90K miles and I have been living with it with no issues aside from a very small puddle under the bike when the temp <40F. Everytime Triumph took the top of my motor apart, something else was left out of sorts so I threw the towel in on attempt number 4. I have also used stop leak that helped some but I was always sure to flush it out when the weather warmed up here in Boston.

              I look forward to seeing the photos of the improved gasket replacement.

              Thanks and ride safe!

              Tony D. 2001 BBBB

              <SNIP>
            • Samuel Crider
              Tony, Fwiw, here s my method. If in the future you decide to give it another shot. You might want to consider this. With everything perfectly clean apply a
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 3, 2012
                Tony,

                Fwiw, here's my method. If in the future you decide to give it another
                shot. You might want to consider this. With everything perfectly clean
                apply a ultra light skim of hilomar on both sides of the gasket. Install.
                End of story. Never had a failure in 35yrs and counting. Petro or diesel it
                works everytime.

                Enjoy the ride!

                Samuel Crider
                96 BBBB PB
                New Orleans
                On Oct 3, 2012 7:40 PM, "td02460" <dagostino5@...> wrote:

                > Hello all. I've been away from the board for sometime (no access from
                > work) but when I saw the subject title, I couldn't resist. Triumph paid for
                > 3 head gasket replacements on my 2001; the last promising to fix the
                > weeping with an improved gasket. Either I didn't get the improved gasket or
                > it didn't work. That was 70K miles ago and it still weeps. My bike has
                > ~90K miles and I have been living with it with no issues aside from a very
                > small puddle under the bike when the temp <40F. Everytime Triumph took the
                > top of my motor apart, something else was left out of sorts so I threw the
                > towel in on attempt number 4. I have also used stop leak that helped some
                > but I was always sure to flush it out when the weather warmed up here in
                > Boston.
                >
                > I look forward to seeing the photos of the improved gasket replacement.
                >
                > Thanks and ride safe!
                >
                > Tony D. 2001 BBBB
                >
                > <SNIP>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
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                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • a2 - inoperative emessages
                Great advice Samuel - have you ever considered skimming the head before reassembly (some cars are really sensitive to this need)? Another question - Do you
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
                  Great advice Samuel - have you ever considered skimming the head before reassembly (some cars are really sensitive to this need)?

                  Another question - Do you think it is easy to check small and big ends from the top end for significant play?

                  A2

                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tony,
                  >
                  > Fwiw, here's my method. If in the future you decide to give it another
                  > shot. You might want to consider this. With everything perfectly clean
                  > apply a ultra light skim of hilomar on both sides of the gasket. Install.
                  > End of story. Never had a failure in 35yrs and counting. Petro or diesel it
                  > works everytime.
                  >
                  > Enjoy the ride!
                  >
                  > Samuel Crider
                  > 96 BBBB PB
                  > New Orleans
                  > On Oct 3, 2012 7:40 PM, "td02460" <dagostino5@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hello all. I've been away from the board for sometime (no access from
                  > > work) but when I saw the subject title, I couldn't resist. Triumph paid for
                  > > 3 head gasket replacements on my 2001; the last promising to fix the
                  > > weeping with an improved gasket. Either I didn't get the improved gasket or
                  > > it didn't work. That was 70K miles ago and it still weeps. My bike has
                  > > ~90K miles and I have been living with it with no issues aside from a very
                  > > small puddle under the bike when the temp <40F. Everytime Triumph took the
                  > > top of my motor apart, something else was left out of sorts so I threw the
                  > > towel in on attempt number 4. I have also used stop leak that helped some
                  > > but I was always sure to flush it out when the weather warmed up here in
                  > > Boston.
                  > >
                  > > I look forward to seeing the photos of the improved gasket replacement.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks and ride safe!
                  > >
                  > > Tony D. 2001 BBBB
                  > >
                  > > <SNIP>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                  > > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original
                  > > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                  > > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                  > > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                  > > minimum when replying.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Samuel Crider
                  Generally, I just use a 3m green scrubbing pad to polish the face. Then check it for flatness with a machinists straight edge. If the error is under .007 it
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
                    Generally, I just use a 3m green scrubbing pad to polish the face. Then
                    check it for flatness with a machinists straight edge. If the error is
                    under .007 it usually good to go. As for milling, I recommend against it on
                    overhead cam aluminum heads. As the cam journals will likely distort when
                    the head is torqued down. Which then brings up the need to realign bore the
                    cam journals. Which can't be done on these bearingless designs.
                    Nevertheless, hilomar has never let me down even in much higher compression
                    diesel applications. Hats off to Rolls Royce for such a fine product!

                    On Oct 4, 2012 12:58 PM, "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Great advice Samuel - have you ever considered skimming the head before
                    reassembly (some cars are really sensitive to this need)?
                    >
                    > Another question - Do you think it is easy to check small and big ends
                    from the top end for significant play?
                    >
                    > A2
                    >
                    > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...>
                    wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Tony,
                    > >
                    > > Fwiw, here's my method. If in the future you decide to give it another
                    > > shot. You might want to consider this. With everything perfectly clean
                    > > apply a ultra light skim of hilomar on both sides of the gasket.
                    Install.
                    > > End of story. Never had a failure in 35yrs and counting. Petro or
                    diesel it
                    > > works everytime.
                    > >
                    > > Enjoy the ride!
                    > >
                    > > Samuel Crider
                    > > 96 BBBB PB
                    > > New Orleans
                    > > On Oct 3, 2012 7:40 PM, "td02460" <dagostino5@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Hello all. I've been away from the board for sometime (no access from
                    > > > work) but when I saw the subject title, I couldn't resist. Triumph
                    paid for
                    > > > 3 head gasket replacements on my 2001; the last promising to fix the
                    > > > weeping with an improved gasket. Either I didn't get the improved
                    gasket or
                    > > > it didn't work. That was 70K miles ago and it still weeps. My bike
                    has
                    > > > ~90K miles and I have been living with it with no issues aside from a
                    very
                    > > > small puddle under the bike when the temp <40F. Everytime Triumph
                    took the
                    > > > top of my motor apart, something else was left out of sorts so I
                    threw the
                    > > > towel in on attempt number 4. I have also used stop leak that helped
                    some
                    > > > but I was always sure to flush it out when the weather warmed up here
                    in
                    > > > Boston.
                    > > >
                    > > > I look forward to seeing the photos of the improved gasket
                    replacement.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks and ride safe!
                    > > >
                    > > > Tony D. 2001 BBBB
                    > > >
                    > > > <SNIP>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                    > > > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the
                    original
                    > > > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                    > > > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are
                    allowed,
                    > > > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages
                    to a
                    > > > minimum when replying.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
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                    topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                    except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                    minimum when replying.
                    >
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • adeux60@ymail.com
                    Thanks for the advice Samuel
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
                      Thanks for the advice Samuel


                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Generally, I just use a 3m green scrubbing pad to polish the face. Then
                      > check it for flatness with a machinists straight edge. If the error is
                      > under .007 it usually good to go. As for milling, I recommend against it on
                      > overhead cam aluminum heads. As the cam journals will likely distort when
                      > the head is torqued down. Which then brings up the need to realign bore the
                      > cam journals. Which can't be done on these bearingless designs.
                      > Nevertheless, hilomar has never let me down even in much higher compression
                      > diesel applications. Hats off to Rolls Royce for such a fine product!
                      >
                      > On Oct 4, 2012 12:58 PM, "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Great advice Samuel - have you ever considered skimming the head before
                      > reassembly (some cars are really sensitive to this need)?
                      > >
                      > > Another question - Do you think it is easy to check small and big ends
                      > from the top end for significant play?
                      > >
                      > > A2
                      > >
                      > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@>
                      > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Tony,
                      > > >
                      > > > Fwiw, here's my method. If in the future you decide to give it another
                      > > > shot. You might want to consider this. With everything perfectly clean
                      > > > apply a ultra light skim of hilomar on both sides of the gasket.
                      > Install.
                      > > > End of story. Never had a failure in 35yrs and counting. Petro or
                      > diesel it
                      > > > works everytime.
                      > > >
                      > > > Enjoy the ride!
                      > > >
                      > > > Samuel Crider
                      > > > 96 BBBB PB
                      > > > New Orleans
                      > > > On Oct 3, 2012 7:40 PM, "td02460" <dagostino5@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Hello all. I've been away from the board for sometime (no access from
                      > > > > work) but when I saw the subject title, I couldn't resist. Triumph
                      > paid for
                      > > > > 3 head gasket replacements on my 2001; the last promising to fix the
                      > > > > weeping with an improved gasket. Either I didn't get the improved
                      > gasket or
                      > > > > it didn't work. That was 70K miles ago and it still weeps. My bike
                      > has
                      > > > > ~90K miles and I have been living with it with no issues aside from a
                      > very
                      > > > > small puddle under the bike when the temp <40F. Everytime Triumph
                      > took the
                      > > > > top of my motor apart, something else was left out of sorts so I
                      > threw the
                      > > > > towel in on attempt number 4. I have also used stop leak that helped
                      > some
                      > > > > but I was always sure to flush it out when the weather warmed up here
                      > in
                      > > > > Boston.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I look forward to seeing the photos of the improved gasket
                      > replacement.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks and ride safe!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Tony D. 2001 BBBB
                      > > > >
                      > > > > <SNIP>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                      > > > > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the
                      > original
                      > > > > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                      > > > > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are
                      > allowed,
                      > > > > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages
                      > to a
                      > > > > minimum when replying.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > List owner: TriumphTrophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                      > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original
                      > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                      > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                      > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                      > minimum when replying.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • mcatrophy
                      If your leak only happens when the temperature is very low, there is no real need to replace the head gasket. My 1200 did this. At the time it was already at
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
                        If your leak only happens when the temperature is very low, there is no real need to replace the head gasket.

                        My 1200 did this. At the time it was already at my dealers to look into another problem, so in my ignorance I got them to change it. They found out about the re-designed head gasket that was supposed to fix the problem.

                        Later I found out that this was a known characteristic, caused by differential expansion of the aluminium block and the steel liners.

                        It won't let water into the oil or vica versa.

                        Couple of pics of mine taken at the dealer:
                        http://atrophy.lock.net/pi/misfire/index.php?image=DSCF4220.JPG&size=1
                        http://atrophy.lock.net/pi/misfire/index.php?image=DSCF4222_enhanced.jpg&size=1

                        Many simply live with a few drips of coolant when it's very cold, no problem when the engine or the weather warms.

                        Mcatrophy
                        FJR1300AS
                        ex 2001 Trophy 1200

                        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > How difficult a job is it to replace a head gasket on a 2001 1200?
                        > Mine is seeping coolant just a little but none getting in the oil yet. I
                        > don't think I have a major problem. YET! But just curious what I'll be
                        > faced with if I decide to fix it.
                        > --
                        > *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                        >
                        > --
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                        >
                      • Ed Johnson
                        Thanks for that! My Trophy doesn t seep any where near that much. *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB** ... -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
                          Thanks for that! My Trophy doesn't seep any where near that much.
                          *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                          On 10/5/2012 6:03 PM, mcatrophy wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > If your leak only happens when the temperature is very low, there is no real need to replace the head gasket.
                          >
                          > My 1200 did this. At the time it was already at my dealers to look into another problem, so in my ignorance I got them to change it. They found out about the re-designed head gasket that was supposed to fix the problem.
                          >
                          > Later I found out that this was a known characteristic, caused by differential expansion of the aluminium block and the steel liners.
                          >
                          > It won't let water into the oil or vica versa.
                          >
                          > Couple of pics of mine taken at the dealer:
                          > http://atrophy.lock.net/pi/misfire/index.php?image=DSCF4220.JPG&size=1
                          > http://atrophy.lock.net/pi/misfire/index.php?image=DSCF4222_enhanced.jpg&size=1
                          >
                          > Many simply live with a few drips of coolant when it's very cold, no problem when the engine or the weather warms.
                          >
                          > Mcatrophy
                          > FJR1300AS
                          > ex 2001 Trophy 1200
                          >
                          >

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