Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: 96 BBBB vacuum line routing problem: which carb to connect the vac line to ?

Expand Messages
  • a2 - inoperative emessages
    Firstly - one leak and all four bowls changed......never go back...even to complain would like by a waste of your time and he will never get it right. be
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Firstly - one leak and all four bowls changed......never go back...even to complain would like by a waste of your time and he will never get it right. be easier to fix it elsewhere and sent him the bill via the courts (also a waste of time)

      Vac line can go to any carb except never share it with a scot oiler
      ensure all other caps are perfect.

      No kinking allowed. The problem most definitely can be lack of vacuum to the petcock and a lack of fuel to the carbs.

      Prime has to be held in (pushed in) to work therefore its impossible to run on it

      You need to systematically check what works - eg by sucking on the petcock vac line make sure fuel flows well.

      for the time being dont run it on reserve and keep the fuel level high.

      also other checks:
      loosen the drain screws on the underside of the new carb bowls and make sure fuel flows logically at all the tank knob settings. eg prompt arrival when you suck or on prime, stops starts etc...

      Inline filters are a user extra - anticipating that there is shit in your fuel there are also filters in the tanks and in the carbs - check the fuel flow first....

      fuel filters are an easy way to add more tubing too and route to the tank in an easier fashion. (compared to standard anyway)

      also the fuel knob tends to break - so 99% chance you are not actually turning the fuel knob. If you are using it a lot then best to remove it before you break it...
      A2


      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
      >
      > Had a mechanic replace my float bowls as the bike was leaking fuel... cost me 843$ now the bike runs like sh.t and stalls everywhere. He supposedly also synced the carbs...
      >
      > Tried running in the prime position, to no avail. Sometimes runs finfor 200 km, sometime 10 km...
      >
      > Removed the tank to discover mechanic routed the vac line to carb #4 (extreme right) and it should be on #3 I think ... does it matter ? The fuel lines seems to run strange as well and I think he got rid of the inline filters (I can'T see as I have not removed the airbox)
      >
      > Can you confirm that I can leave the vacuum line on carb #4 ?
      >
      > Also: the vac line was kinked, but the bike would not run any better in the "prime" position... so I guess the problem is not related to vacuum ?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
    • a2 - inoperative emessages
      I gotta get some glasses - as i thought there was a way to edit and delete the spelling mistakes. a2
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        I gotta get some glasses - as i thought there was a way to edit and delete the spelling mistakes.

        a2

        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...> wrote:
        >
        > Firstly - one leak and all four bowls changed......never go back...even to complain would like by a waste of your time and he will never get it right. be easier to fix it elsewhere and sent him the bill via the courts (also a waste of time)
        >
        > Vac line can go to any carb except never share it with a scot oiler
        > ensure all other caps are perfect.
        >
        > No kinking allowed. The problem most definitely can be lack of vacuum to the petcock and a lack of fuel to the carbs.
        >
        > Prime has to be held in (pushed in) to work therefore its impossible to run on it
        >
        > You need to systematically check what works - eg by sucking on the petcock vac line make sure fuel flows well.
        >
        > for the time being dont run it on reserve and keep the fuel level high.
        >
        > also other checks:
        > loosen the drain screws on the underside of the new carb bowls and make sure fuel flows logically at all the tank knob settings. eg prompt arrival when you suck or on prime, stops starts etc...
        >
        > Inline filters are a user extra - anticipating that there is shit in your fuel there are also filters in the tanks and in the carbs - check the fuel flow first....
        >
        > fuel filters are an easy way to add more tubing too and route to the tank in an easier fashion. (compared to standard anyway)
        >
        > also the fuel knob tends to break - so 99% chance you are not actually turning the fuel knob. If you are using it a lot then best to remove it before you break it...
        > A2
        >
        >
        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Had a mechanic replace my float bowls as the bike was leaking fuel... cost me 843$ now the bike runs like sh.t and stalls everywhere. He supposedly also synced the carbs...
        > >
        > > Tried running in the prime position, to no avail. Sometimes runs finfor 200 km, sometime 10 km...
        > >
        > > Removed the tank to discover mechanic routed the vac line to carb #4 (extreme right) and it should be on #3 I think ... does it matter ? The fuel lines seems to run strange as well and I think he got rid of the inline filters (I can'T see as I have not removed the airbox)
        > >
        > > Can you confirm that I can leave the vacuum line on carb #4 ?
        > >
        > > Also: the vac line was kinked, but the bike would not run any better in the "prime" position... so I guess the problem is not related to vacuum ?
        > >
        > > Thanks
        > >
        >
      • Ed Johnson
        If I had paid someone $843 to fix my bike and it ran like shit I would do NOTHING except take it back to guy that did it. Disregarding that; If the vacuum line
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          If I had paid someone $843 to fix my bike and it ran like shit I
          would do NOTHING except take it back to guy that did it.
          Disregarding that; If the vacuum line was kinked it would definitely
          affect how the bike is running. My petcock in PRI position has to be
          held in for fuel to flow. Just switching it to PRI position doesn't get
          it with MY petcock. Yours may be different. It is easy to check with the
          tank off. Try all positions with a short piece of vacuum hose on the
          petcock and gently suck on the diaphragm in the run and res positions.
          Fuel should flow. In PRI position see if fuel flows by simply turning to
          that position. If not try holding in on the knob and see if fuel then flows.
          Of course all of the above tests only work if the knob isn't
          broken. The first mechanic that touched my bike after I first got it
          broke the knob by trying to force it into the PRI position without first
          pushing in on the knob. The knob would then turn to all the indicated
          positions but nothing was really happening within the petcock. The only
          way to check that is take the petcock out and shine a light down the
          inputs, after removing the screens, and insure that the drum is actually
          turning with the knob and the knob is not just turning on the shaft.
          Lastly if he DID remove the inline screens he did you a favor but I
          fail to see why you have to remove the air box but mine is a 2001 and
          yours is '96 so they may be different and I am certainly no expert!
          HTH!
          *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
          On 9/2/2012 12:19 PM, clepeterd wrote:
          > Had a mechanic replace my float bowls as the bike was leaking fuel... cost me 843$ now the bike runs like sh.t and stalls everywhere. He supposedly also synced the carbs...
          >
          > Tried running in the prime position, to no avail. Sometimes runs finfor 200 km, sometime 10 km...
          >
          > Removed the tank to discover mechanic routed the vac line to carb #4 (extreme right) and it should be on #3 I think ... does it matter ? The fuel lines seems to run strange as well and I think he got rid of the inline filters (I can'T see as I have not removed the airbox)
          >
          > Can you confirm that I can leave the vacuum line on carb #4 ?
          >
          > Also: the vac line was kinked, but the bike would not run any better in the "prime" position... so I guess the problem is not related to vacuum ?
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a minimum when replying.
          >
          >
          > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
          > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > List owner: TriumphTrophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • clepeterd
          Thanks A2 and Ed. The knob is OK, when I acquired the bike, I filled the knob hole with epoxy as suggested in the group. I sense it clicks when it goes to
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks A2 and Ed.

            The knob is OK, when I acquired the bike, I filled the knob hole with epoxy as suggested in the group. I "sense" it clicks when it goes to the ON and RES position. I will still check for proper operation.

            Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.

            I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...

            When the bike stalls, it looks like it's running on 3 cylinders. But I'm pretty sure it's fuel related. After a while, it will restart.

            Yesterday it was really running bad so I did a test, when it started running bad, I pulled off, let it idle (it was clunky) and I then put it in PRI position and pushed on the knob, bike was then running ok. So I guess it's a fuel starvation problem.

            Thats why I removed the tank and noiticed the kink... I bought stiffer vaccum hose, it's transparent, I hope it will work.

            When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...

            Bad running seems to occur when the bike is running for a long time on the highway, after 10 minutes of cooling, it was ok. Except yesterday where it was awful always...
          • Ed Johnson
            I m 74 and have been working on mechanical stuff since I first learned to overhead arc weld at the age of 12! I was a skinny kid and I could get into places on
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm 74 and have been working on mechanical stuff since I first
              learned to overhead arc weld at the age of 12! I was a skinny kid and I
              could get into places on my dad's logging trucks that adult men couldn't
              get to without disassembling a LOT of STUFF! Hence my dad's welder
              taught me how to do it. To make a long story short I've always been
              mechanically inclined!
              Having said that; The Triumph Trophy is the most counter intuitive
              piece of equipment I've ever worked on! If it sounds like a bad coil
              it's probably a fuel problem. If the bike sounds flooded and takes a
              while to clear up from being overloaded, it was probably starved for
              fuel. If it acts like the ignitor is going bad it's probably your tail
              light isn't grounded properly! It goes on and on. I had my carbs synched
              twice in the last two years trying get get rid of a low end stutter and
              my recent cleaning of all contacts and grounds took it totally away. Go
              figure! Don't get discouraged. The cure is simple! Finding it can be
              FUN! (;-)
              *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
              On 9/2/2012 2:06 PM, clepeterd wrote:
              > Thanks A2 and Ed.
              >
              > The knob is OK, when I acquired the bike, I filled the knob hole with epoxy as suggested in the group. I "sense" it clicks when it goes to the ON and RES position. I will still check for proper operation.
              >
              > Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.
              >
              > I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...
              >
              > When the bike stalls, it looks like it's running on 3 cylinders. But I'm pretty sure it's fuel related. After a while, it will restart.
              >
              > Yesterday it was really running bad so I did a test, when it started running bad, I pulled off, let it idle (it was clunky) and I then put it in PRI position and pushed on the knob, bike was then running ok. So I guess it's a fuel starvation problem.
              >
              > Thats why I removed the tank and noiticed the kink... I bought stiffer vaccum hose, it's transparent, I hope it will work.
              >
              > When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...
              >
              > Bad running seems to occur when the bike is running for a long time on the highway, after 10 minutes of cooling, it was ok. Except yesterday where it was awful always...
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Greg
              Hi Clepeterd, Yes the carbs would be gummy. He probably cleaned the low speed circuit with carb cleaner and charged you for a full dismantle and cleaning. The
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Clepeterd,
                Yes the carbs would be gummy. He probably cleaned the low speed circuit with carb cleaner and charged you for a full dismantle and cleaning. The float needles are part of the float assembly. So he charged you for new float assemblies, about$50 each. Did you get new float assemblies? Probably not, the needles would still be good sitting in an empty carb float bowl. Hopefully he was lazy enough that he didn't take off the carbs so he didn't mess with setting the float bowls.

                Here's the good news, the coil that runs #2 and #3? is still good. The bad news is the #2 is getting starved for fuel. Use A2's trick. Put the petcock on prime, put a big rag under the #2 carb, loosen the drain plug. Fuel should come out in a goodly manner. If not, compare it with the #1 carb. The same fuel line feeds #1 so they should drain the same. If they are both good you've got a vacuum leak on #2. Take off the carb top, there should be a little o-ring under the top. Check the big diaphragm that lifts the throttle slide. Rips, wrinkles,holes are not a good thing for the diaphragm.
                Greg Andrews

                "clepeterd" wrote:
                Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.

                I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...
                starvation problem. When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...
              • clepeterd
                He did rrmove the carbs and he said he cleaned them. He also ordered full float assy s (I waited 2 weeks for that !) and replaced them. Maybe I used ther wrong
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  He did rrmove the carbs and he said he cleaned them. He also ordered full float assy's (I waited 2 weeks for that !) and replaced them. Maybe I used ther wrong term for the float assembly...

                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Clepeterd,
                  > Yes the carbs would be gummy. He probably cleaned the low speed circuit with carb cleaner and charged you for a full dismantle and cleaning. The float needles are part of the float assembly. So he charged you for new float assemblies, about$50 each. Did you get new float assemblies? Probably not, the needles would still be good sitting in an empty carb float bowl. Hopefully he was lazy enough that he didn't take off the carbs so he didn't mess with setting the float bowls.
                  >
                  > Here's the good news, the coil that runs #2 and #3? is still good. The bad news is the #2 is getting starved for fuel. Use A2's trick. Put the petcock on prime, put a big rag under the #2 carb, loosen the drain plug. Fuel should come out in a goodly manner. If not, compare it with the #1 carb. The same fuel line feeds #1 so they should drain the same. If they are both good you've got a vacuum leak on #2. Take off the carb top, there should be a little o-ring under the top. Check the big diaphragm that lifts the throttle slide. Rips, wrinkles,holes are not a good thing for the diaphragm.
                  > Greg Andrews
                  >
                  > "clepeterd" wrote:
                  > Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.
                  >
                  > I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...
                  > starvation problem. When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...
                  >
                • Jack Byers
                  Usually, they are hooked up to #3, but I doubt it matters . I think it is set up at the assembly line to hook them all (3 or 4 bangers). I ve run mine on
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Usually, they are hooked up to #3, but I doubt it matters . I think
                    it is set up at the assembly line to hook them all (3 or 4 bangers).
                    I've run mine on 3,4,2. The #3 just seems easiest to run. Just be
                    sure to use strong VACUUM line!
                    Kindest regards,
                    POppa Jack
                    On Sep 2, 2012, at 9:52 AM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:

                    > I gotta get some glasses - as i thought there was a way to edit and
                    > delete the spelling mistakes.
                    >
                    > a2
                    >
                    > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2 - inoperative emessages"
                    > <adeux60@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Firstly - one leak and all four bowls changed......never go
                    > back...even to complain would like by a waste of your time and he
                    > will never get it right. be easier to fix it elsewhere and sent him
                    > the bill via the courts (also a waste of time)
                    > >
                    > > Vac line can go to any carb except never share it with a scot oiler
                    > > ensure all other caps are perfect.
                    > >
                    > > No kinking allowed. The problem most definitely can be lack of
                    > vacuum to the petcock and a lack of fuel to the carbs.
                    > >
                    > > Prime has to be held in (pushed in) to work therefore its
                    > impossible to run on it
                    > >
                    > > You need to systematically check what works - eg by sucking on
                    > the petcock vac line make sure fuel flows well.
                    > >
                    > > for the time being dont run it on reserve and keep the fuel level
                    > high.
                    > >
                    > > also other checks:
                    > > loosen the drain screws on the underside of the new carb bowls
                    > and make sure fuel flows logically at all the tank knob settings.
                    > eg prompt arrival when you suck or on prime, stops starts etc...
                    > >
                    > > Inline filters are a user extra - anticipating that there is shit
                    > in your fuel there are also filters in the tanks and in the carbs -
                    > check the fuel flow first....
                    > >
                    > > fuel filters are an easy way to add more tubing too and route to
                    > the tank in an easier fashion. (compared to standard anyway)
                    > >
                    > > also the fuel knob tends to break - so 99% chance you are not
                    > actually turning the fuel knob. If you are using it a lot then best
                    > to remove it before you break it...
                    > > A2
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Had a mechanic replace my float bowls as the bike was leaking
                    > fuel... cost me 843$ now the bike runs like sh.t and stalls
                    > everywhere. He supposedly also synced the carbs...
                    > > >
                    > > > Tried running in the prime position, to no avail. Sometimes
                    > runs finfor 200 km, sometime 10 km...
                    > > >
                    > > > Removed the tank to discover mechanic routed the vac line to
                    > carb #4 (extreme right) and it should be on #3 I think ... does it
                    > matter ? The fuel lines seems to run strange as well and I think he
                    > got rid of the inline filters (I can'T see as I have not removed
                    > the airbox)
                    > > >
                    > > > Can you confirm that I can leave the vacuum line on carb #4 ?
                    > > >
                    > > > Also: the vac line was kinked, but the bike would not run any
                    > better in the "prime" position... so I guess the problem is not
                    > related to vacuum ?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • a2 - inoperative emessages
                    Heating up and stalling is ALSO a symptom of the ignition pickup sensor failing - it then cools and the bike starts - it is usually associated with a breakdown
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Heating up and stalling is ALSO a symptom of the ignition pickup sensor failing - it then cools and the bike starts - it is usually associated with a breakdown in resistance. although a correct resistance isn't proof of "fitness" the wrong resistance is proof of failure (particularly near zero resistance) it also has to be correctly gapped. Although this would affect ALL cylinders equally.

                      Piston two is also a concern and you still have to work out if carb 2 is fuel starved or whether you have a duff spark plug, HT cap, lead,
                      after that unlikely to be a coil or LT as a coil on a 1200 affects two cylinders (but you could try swapping HT side to see if the problem moves.

                      Tickover should be 1000+ revs I would also want to know the pilot screws were set sensibly to 1.5 to 2 turns equally (requires carb removal and that with the airbox off that the butterflies and CV sliders were acting together with the engine running. That also the choke is working all the carbs.

                      Once you have eliminated those elements you could consider going further to dismantling the carbs - its easy although you are undoing the good work of your mechanic if he balanced them etc.

                      BUT/AS you shouldn't balance carbs that haven't been cleaned. The cleanliness or not will be all the proof you need to decide whether you trust yourself to do the work....

                      Further info available from all as you progress so keep us all updated for further advice.

                      there is also the possibility of the shims on the cams on cylinder two going "sub zero" gap (urgent). might be worth measuring and noting the shim gaps. large gaps are noisy but dont need immediate action.

                      new plugs soon as you will probably fouling them with the rough running in any event - and needs doing prior to setting up the carbs. Plug colours also important info

                      If you are going to tackle all of it you will need a week end, so make your self some space and stay logical.

                      How you go about it might relate to how far away spares are available as planning all the dismantling and wrapping it all in clingfilm, ordering the parts, waiting and reassembling is probably the most cost effective in terms of your time, otherwise you end up trekking back and forth. or you buy every gasket up front and find you dont need half of what you bought.

                      some of this work requires gaskets, the carbs may require new rubber.
                      (note the carb rubbers will exceed $100 but you may not need them)

                      Dont overstress your battery in the meantime.

                      A2





                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks A2 and Ed.
                      >
                      > The knob is OK, when I acquired the bike, I filled the knob hole with epoxy as suggested in the group. I "sense" it clicks when it goes to the ON and RES position. I will still check for proper operation.
                      >
                      > Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.
                      >
                      > I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...
                      >
                      > When the bike stalls, it looks like it's running on 3 cylinders. But I'm pretty sure it's fuel related. After a while, it will restart.
                      >
                      > Yesterday it was really running bad so I did a test, when it started running bad, I pulled off, let it idle (it was clunky) and I then put it in PRI position and pushed on the knob, bike was then running ok. So I guess it's a fuel starvation problem.
                      >
                      > Thats why I removed the tank and noiticed the kink... I bought stiffer vaccum hose, it's transparent, I hope it will work.
                      >
                      > When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...
                      >
                      > Bad running seems to occur when the bike is running for a long time on the highway, after 10 minutes of cooling, it was ok. Except yesterday where it was awful always...
                      >
                    • a2 - inoperative emessages
                      well if it is electrical he is forgiven and maybe taking the carbs off and just looking in the bowls for cleanliness will be reassuring. A2
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        well if it is electrical he is forgiven and maybe taking the carbs off and just looking in the bowls for cleanliness will be reassuring.

                        A2



                        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > He did rrmove the carbs and he said he cleaned them. He also ordered full float assy's (I waited 2 weeks for that !) and replaced them. Maybe I used ther wrong term for the float assembly...
                        >
                        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gandrews@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Clepeterd,
                        > > Yes the carbs would be gummy. He probably cleaned the low speed circuit with carb cleaner and charged you for a full dismantle and cleaning. The float needles are part of the float assembly. So he charged you for new float assemblies, about$50 each. Did you get new float assemblies? Probably not, the needles would still be good sitting in an empty carb float bowl. Hopefully he was lazy enough that he didn't take off the carbs so he didn't mess with setting the float bowls.
                        > >
                        > > Here's the good news, the coil that runs #2 and #3? is still good. The bad news is the #2 is getting starved for fuel. Use A2's trick. Put the petcock on prime, put a big rag under the #2 carb, loosen the drain plug. Fuel should come out in a goodly manner. If not, compare it with the #1 carb. The same fuel line feeds #1 so they should drain the same. If they are both good you've got a vacuum leak on #2. Take off the carb top, there should be a little o-ring under the top. Check the big diaphragm that lifts the throttle slide. Rips, wrinkles,holes are not a good thing for the diaphragm.
                        > > Greg Andrews
                        > >
                        > > "clepeterd" wrote:
                        > > Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.
                        > >
                        > > I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...
                        > > starvation problem. When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...
                        > >
                        >
                      • a2 - inoperative emessages
                        so unlikely he was changing bowls - more likely he was changing emulsion tubes and needles and rubbers. The symptoms you are suffering are also equally likely
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          so unlikely he was changing bowls - more likely he was changing emulsion tubes and needles and rubbers. The symptoms you are suffering are also equally likely to be electrical.

                          A2



                          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > well if it is electrical he is forgiven and maybe taking the carbs off and just looking in the bowls for cleanliness will be reassuring.
                          >
                          > A2
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > He did rrmove the carbs and he said he cleaned them. He also ordered full float assy's (I waited 2 weeks for that !) and replaced them. Maybe I used ther wrong term for the float assembly...
                          > >
                          > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gandrews@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Clepeterd,
                          > > > Yes the carbs would be gummy. He probably cleaned the low speed circuit with carb cleaner and charged you for a full dismantle and cleaning. The float needles are part of the float assembly. So he charged you for new float assemblies, about$50 each. Did you get new float assemblies? Probably not, the needles would still be good sitting in an empty carb float bowl. Hopefully he was lazy enough that he didn't take off the carbs so he didn't mess with setting the float bowls.
                          > > >
                          > > > Here's the good news, the coil that runs #2 and #3? is still good. The bad news is the #2 is getting starved for fuel. Use A2's trick. Put the petcock on prime, put a big rag under the #2 carb, loosen the drain plug. Fuel should come out in a goodly manner. If not, compare it with the #1 carb. The same fuel line feeds #1 so they should drain the same. If they are both good you've got a vacuum leak on #2. Take off the carb top, there should be a little o-ring under the top. Check the big diaphragm that lifts the throttle slide. Rips, wrinkles,holes are not a good thing for the diaphragm.
                          > > > Greg Andrews
                          > > >
                          > > > "clepeterd" wrote:
                          > > > Mechanic said 3 out of 4 bowls needles were worn out and carbs were all gummy (that bike sat for 4 years at a dealership before I bought it 3 years ago) and that'w why he changed 4 out of them.
                          > > >
                          > > > I just hope he correcttly adjusted the float height, I even called to tell them what the correct level was...
                          > > > starvation problem. When it was running bad, I also checked the exhaust manifil temp to see if a piston was dead... I had piston #2 at 240 F, other were near 400... I wonder if I'm not having 2 problems at the same time...
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • clepeterd
                          I tried sucking on the petcock vacuum, plese note the tanks is NOT full, almost at reserve I would say: In PRI position: I noticed that the fuel flows from
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I tried sucking on the petcock vacuum, plese note the tanks is NOT full, almost at reserve I would say:

                            In PRI position: I noticed that the fuel flows from both fuel line, amost equally, maybe a little more from the hose on the BACK of the tank

                            In ON position: I could not suck on it, no flow... After moving the tank a bit, flowing from the back hose but not from front.

                            In the RES position: Flows OK. But like PRI, less from the front tube

                            Could it be related to the fact that the tank is not full ? If no gas at ther intake, is it normal that the diaphragm is blocked ?

                            Also:

                            What is the piston order number from left to right while sitting on the bike ? Are they called 1 2 3 4 ?

                            I taught left coil was for pistons 1 2 and right coild for 3 and 4...


                            Thanks a LOT !
                          • a2 - inoperative emessages
                            1243 I think but I have a 900 so don t ask me. They all fire in pairs every 180 degrees with a lost spark on the exhaust phase. Fuel: ideal time to clean out
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              1243 I think but I have a 900 so don't ask me. They all fire in pairs every 180 degrees with a lost spark on the exhaust phase.

                              Fuel: ideal time to clean out the tank thoroughly - just in case and just put fresh fuel back(just elimininates another possibility)

                              The tank design I think is poor and fuel will remain in the rhs indicating on the sender but will not reach the lhs and the outlet due to the central rib. Even making it hard to clean out.

                              You definately need half a tank to diagnose safely.

                              You can remove the two side screws from the petcock and the front contents will drop out (tapered) beware the rear and stabbing the diaphragm. Grease and replace..

                              Not sure on the tube flows from the tank but the carbs share fuel across all four and I imagine lack of flow will affect all cylinders or outer pairs as each tube directly feeds a pair (on a line that feeds all four) this line across the carbs also includes the carb filters.
                              Actually I think fuel should flow from both petcock tubes equally and just a full bore falling flow is more than sufficient to replenish the carbs. Do the Maths using mpg makes you realise what flow you need as the tank should empty quicker than you can burn it (quite easy)

                              Rust showing in the tank would indicate that blockages are likely and you don't want that falling into your newly cleaned carbs...also the inner treatment can peal.


                              A2




                              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I tried sucking on the petcock vacuum, plese note the tanks is NOT full, almost at reserve I would say:
                              >
                              > In PRI position: I noticed that the fuel flows from both fuel line, amost equally, maybe a little more from the hose on the BACK of the tank
                              >
                              > In ON position: I could not suck on it, no flow... After moving the tank a bit, flowing from the back hose but not from front.
                              >
                              > In the RES position: Flows OK. But like PRI, less from the front tube
                              >
                              > Could it be related to the fact that the tank is not full ? If no gas at ther intake, is it normal that the diaphragm is blocked ?
                              >
                              > Also:
                              >
                              > What is the piston order number from left to right while sitting on the bike ? Are they called 1 2 3 4 ?
                              >
                              > I taught left coil was for pistons 1 2 and right coild for 3 and 4...
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks a LOT !
                              >
                            • clepeterd
                              I totally emptied the tank (messy), there was some residue at the bottom... rust. Not much, but some. Used a small LED torch and saw some rusty patches at
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 2, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I totally emptied the tank (messy), there was some residue at the bottom... rust. Not much, but some. Used a small LED torch and saw some rusty patches at the bottom, not near the fuel intake. Most of the stuff is out of the tank. Could not look around the fuel level sensor and did not want to remove that. It acts funny since I bought the bike, the needle "moves" in the meter like in old cars... but it still show the correct level.

                                Refitted the tank and fitted stronger vacuum hose. Could not find 3/16 automotive hose in Quebec City, used some clear heavy gauge vinyl hose instead. It's a lot stronger than the previous clear gas hose fitted by my Bozo mechanic...

                                I dissassembled the petcock as you stated, while the tank was empty (luckily, otherwise I would have spilled the whole tank down on my driveway) I goofed and did not take notice of the way it was pointing when I removed the shaft assembly... after fiddling about, I think I reassembled it correctly. But it now feels a lot "less tight" than before. Also, in the PRI position, there is a constant flow of fuel going down the fuel lines even if I don't press on it ... I have to somehow pull it a bit for it to stop. I fear that leaving it on PRI now will overflow the carbs, fill the airbox and the crankcase ??? In the ON and RES position, it seems to work ok.

                                I will not have the time to do a test run until next week. I hope I fixed it more than I broke it. At least, I learned how to remove that tank and it's not that bad.

                                The 2nd piston from the left is still running 100 F colder than the other. I presume maybe I have a bad spark plug ? Could not buy new plugs as its an holiday here in Canada and all is closed. The valves were done 5000 km ago by a triumph dealer and they were in spec. I was surprised as no shims were ever used even at that milleage... Bike now has 70000km.

                                I dont think it's the ignition sensor as it does that even when the bike has just started.... I'm using an infrared thermometer to check the manifold temp.

                                Thanks for your help and support along the way !
                              • Ed Johnson
                                In my opinion you have avoided one of the biggest culprits that cause poor running in our Trophy s! The fuel sending unit. It is really a simple device that
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  In my opinion you have avoided one of the biggest culprits that
                                  cause poor running in our Trophy's! The fuel sending unit. It is really
                                  a simple device that was not really designed for servicing but can be
                                  done carefully and eliminates a lot problems later. I like to use a
                                  phrase that someone passed on to me early in my troubleshooting learning
                                  techniques. "At least you now know what ISN'T the problem!" in case you
                                  don't find a problem where you are looking and you wont have to look
                                  there again. Having said that, here's what I did to MY sending unit.
                                  I carefully removed it from the tank and you wont need any gaskets
                                  to replace it. In fact to do what it did requires removing and replacing
                                  it several times. When you first get it out you will find that it is
                                  nothing more than a variable resistor with a long float wire on it. As
                                  it goes up and down with the fuel level, so goes the gauge. At the
                                  opposite end of the float wire is the sending unit itself with a small
                                  plate covering the wiper and resistor. That plate is also covering a lot
                                  of rust that has accumulated over the years if it's anything like mine
                                  was. Carefully prying the tabs open that hold the cover plate in place
                                  allows access to said wiper and rust. A thorough cleaning of that
                                  culprit with an electrical cleaner of your choice or WD-40 and then
                                  carefully replacing the cover by bending the tabs back and you now know
                                  "What isn't a problem!"
                                  Before replacing the assembly back in the tank you can check the
                                  gauge very easily by simply moving the float up and down and see if the
                                  gauge is following suit. It must of course be plugged in and the
                                  ignition turned on. If all is well there you can continue to the next
                                  step which is time consuming but in my opinion well worth it for future
                                  rides.
                                  Assuming the bike is on the center stand, I replaced the sending
                                  unit back into the tank. Then took a known quantity of fuel and put it
                                  into the tank. In my case I used a quart. I replaced the tank on the
                                  bike in operating position but didn't bolt anything down. I then turned
                                  on the ignition to see what the fuel gauge read. If anything. In my case
                                  it read a quarter of a tank of fuel. Not a good thing in my opinion to
                                  have a fuel gauge reading a quarter tank when I only have a quart left.
                                  Then by sliding the tank back, tipping the back of it up and, propping
                                  it in place I was able to remove the sending unit without removing the
                                  fuel and bending the float wire up so that I would get a lower reading
                                  on the gauge. After a few tries I got the gauge to barely move off of
                                  the empty peg with only a quart of fuel in the tank. This reading is on
                                  the center stand so is a little higher than actual would be in riding
                                  position but the error is on the safe side. Now i know when my gauge
                                  reads almost empty I am really almost empty so it's time to fuel up.
                                  One of the cleaning tips I've gleaned from another source is a
                                  handful of sheet metal screws inserted into the empty tank and shaken
                                  thoroughly to loosen all the rust. I did mine without the petcock or
                                  sending unit in place to avoid damaging them. I then rinsed the tank
                                  thoroughly and did the above mentioned "calibration".

                                  *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                                  On 9/2/2012 9:38 PM, clepeterd wrote:
                                  > I totally emptied the tank (messy), there was some residue at the bottom... rust. Not much, but some. Used a small LED torch and saw some rusty patches at the bottom, not near the fuel intake. Most of the stuff is out of the tank. Could not look around the fuel level sensor and did not want to remove that. It acts funny since I bought the bike, the needle "moves" in the meter like in old cars... but it still show the correct level.
                                  >
                                  > Refitted the tank and fitted stronger vacuum hose. Could not find 3/16 automotive hose in Quebec City, used some clear heavy gauge vinyl hose instead. It's a lot stronger than the previous clear gas hose fitted by my Bozo mechanic...
                                  >
                                  > I dissassembled the petcock as you stated, while the tank was empty (luckily, otherwise I would have spilled the whole tank down on my driveway) I goofed and did not take notice of the way it was pointing when I removed the shaft assembly... after fiddling about, I think I reassembled it correctly. But it now feels a lot "less tight" than before. Also, in the PRI position, there is a constant flow of fuel going down the fuel lines even if I don't press on it ... I have to somehow pull it a bit for it to stop. I fear that leaving it on PRI now will overflow the carbs, fill the airbox and the crankcase ??? In the ON and RES position, it seems to work ok.
                                  >
                                  > I will not have the time to do a test run until next week. I hope I fixed it more than I broke it. At least, I learned how to remove that tank and it's not that bad.
                                  >
                                  > The 2nd piston from the left is still running 100 F colder than the other. I presume maybe I have a bad spark plug ? Could not buy new plugs as its an holiday here in Canada and all is closed. The valves were done 5000 km ago by a triumph dealer and they were in spec. I was surprised as no shims were ever used even at that milleage... Bike now has 70000km.
                                  >
                                  > I dont think it's the ignition sensor as it does that even when the bike has just started.... I'm using an infrared thermometer to check the manifold temp.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for your help and support along the way !
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Greg
                                  Hi Clepeterd, You didn t goof on the petcock shaft. 180 or 360 degrees its all the same. It s the 2 little screws with smooth ends you want right. Those smooth
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Clepeterd, You didn't goof on the petcock shaft. 180 or 360 degrees its all the same. It's the 2 little screws with smooth ends you want right. Those smooth ends fit inside the spiral groove on the rotating hub. Sounds like you got it right. Prime,lets it flow. There has been a few guys who left it on prime and then wondered why the oil level was so high. On & Reserve needs vacuum to flow. If it gets too loose it will start leaking. Sprint Manufacturing in the U.K. sells petcock repair kits.

                                    I doubt if it's the spark plug on #2. They rarely go bad, but I do change mine every 10,000 miles. I carry a portable radio and mount it up by the front brake reservoir. When the plugs start getting bad the radio will pick static from the spark plugs. It could be the spark plug wire is going bad, or maybe its not seated correctly into the coil. The coil is okay because its firing the other cylinder without a problem. It's not the ignition sensor, when that baby goes bad all the cylinders shut down, and then you'll wait for the bike to cool down before it starts again.

                                    My guess is #2 is not getting the right amount of fuel. Could be too much or too little. Read the recent posts about KTM Mike. His was running rough and now it's okay.

                                    I had to change valve shims each year for the first 40,000 miles. After that it settled down and I haven't needed to change them since then. It now has almost 93,000 miles.

                                    Greg Andrews

                                    "clepeterd" wrote:
                                    I totally emptied the tank (messy), I goofed and did not take notice of the way it was pointing when I removed the shaft assembly... after fiddling about, I think I reassembled it correctly. But it now feels a lot "less tight" than before. Also, in the PRI position, there is a constant flow of fuel going down the fuel lines even if I don't press on it ... I have to somehow pull it a bit for it to stop. I fear that leaving it on PRI now will overflow the carbs, fill the airbox and the crankcase ??? In the ON and RES position, it seems to work ok.

                                    The 2nd piston from the left is still running 100 F colder than the other. I presume maybe I have a bad spark plug ? Could not buy new plugs as its an holiday here in Canada and all is closed. The valves were done 5000 km ago by a triumph dealer and they were in spec. I was surprised as no shims were ever used even at that milleage... Bike now has 70000km.

                                    I dont think it's the ignition sensor as it does that even when the bike has just started.... I'm using an infrared thermometer to check the manifold temp.
                                    Thanks for your help and support along the way !
                                  • Samuel Crider
                                    Hi Clepeterd, Pull the carb tops and replace the small o-rings under the vacuum ports. These tend to dryrot before the rest. Use extra caution upon reassembly
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Clepeterd,

                                      Pull the carb tops and replace the small o-rings under the vacuum ports.
                                      These tend to dryrot before the rest. Use extra caution upon reassembly as
                                      these little buggers commonly shift and cause vacuum leaks. Once assembled,
                                      cap off all the ports and proceed with the slide drop test. Lift each slide
                                      and allow it to free fall. You should notice a dampened reduced speed drop
                                      of equal delay. If not you either still have a leak or a bad diaphragm.
                                      Once they all pass then proceed with the remaining vacuum circuit. New
                                      hoses, petcock service, etc.

                                      Best of luck,

                                      Samuel Crider
                                      New Orleans
                                      96 BBBB PB
                                      On Sep 3, 2012 9:19 AM, "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:

                                      > Hi Clepeterd, You didn't goof on the petcock shaft. 180 or 360 degrees its
                                      > all the same. It's the 2 little screws with smooth ends you want right.
                                      > Those smooth ends fit inside the spiral groove on the rotating hub. Sounds
                                      > like you got it right. Prime,lets it flow. There has been a few guys who
                                      > left it on prime and then wondered why the oil level was so high. On &
                                      > Reserve needs vacuum to flow. If it gets too loose it will start leaking.
                                      > Sprint Manufacturing in the U.K. sells petcock repair kits.
                                      >
                                      > I doubt if it's the spark plug on #2. They rarely go bad, but I do change
                                      > mine every 10,000 miles. I carry a portable radio and mount it up by the
                                      > front brake reservoir. When the plugs start getting bad the radio will pick
                                      > static from the spark plugs. It could be the spark plug wire is going bad,
                                      > or maybe its not seated correctly into the coil. The coil is okay because
                                      > its firing the other cylinder without a problem. It's not the ignition
                                      > sensor, when that baby goes bad all the cylinders shut down, and then
                                      > you'll wait for the bike to cool down before it starts again.
                                      >
                                      > My guess is #2 is not getting the right amount of fuel. Could be too much
                                      > or too little. Read the recent posts about KTM Mike. His was running rough
                                      > and now it's okay.
                                      >
                                      > I had to change valve shims each year for the first 40,000 miles. After
                                      > that it settled down and I haven't needed to change them since then. It now
                                      > has almost 93,000 miles.
                                      >
                                      > Greg Andrews
                                      >
                                      > "clepeterd" wrote:
                                      > I totally emptied the tank (messy), I goofed and did not take notice of
                                      > the way it was pointing when I removed the shaft assembly... after fiddling
                                      > about, I think I reassembled it correctly. But it now feels a lot "less
                                      > tight" than before. Also, in the PRI position, there is a constant flow of
                                      > fuel going down the fuel lines even if I don't press on it ... I have to
                                      > somehow pull it a bit for it to stop. I fear that leaving it on PRI now
                                      > will overflow the carbs, fill the airbox and the crankcase ??? In the ON
                                      > and RES position, it seems to work ok.
                                      >
                                      > The 2nd piston from the left is still running 100 F colder than the other.
                                      > I presume maybe I have a bad spark plug ? Could not buy new plugs as its an
                                      > holiday here in Canada and all is closed. The valves were done 5000 km ago
                                      > by a triumph dealer and they were in spec. I was surprised as no shims
                                      > were ever used even at that milleage... Bike now has 70000km.
                                      >
                                      > I dont think it's the ignition sensor as it does that even when the bike
                                      > has just started.... I'm using an infrared thermometer to check the
                                      > manifold temp.
                                      > Thanks for your help and support along the way !
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                                      > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original
                                      > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                                      > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                                      > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                                      > minimum when replying.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > List owner: TriumphTrophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • a2 - inoperative emessages
                                      Like wise to Ed - that blasted thing harbours every bit of rust possible - I think it acts like an electromagnet and then drops everything into itself. I
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Like wise to Ed - that blasted thing harbours every bit of rust possible - I think it acts like an electromagnet and then drops everything into itself. I should have added yesterday the easiest way to clean the tank is with water it seems to dissolve sticky bits and there is plenty of it coming out of a hose pipe. I then dried the tank in about 10 minutes - no issue.

                                        And I got to sort my levels too

                                        A2




                                        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > In my opinion you have avoided one of the biggest culprits that
                                        > cause poor running in our Trophy's! The fuel sending unit. It is really
                                        > a simple device that was not really designed for servicing but can be
                                        > done carefully and eliminates a lot problems later. I like to use a
                                        > phrase that someone passed on to me early in my troubleshooting learning
                                        > techniques. "At least you now know what ISN'T the problem!" in case you
                                        > don't find a problem where you are looking and you wont have to look
                                        > there again. Having said that, here's what I did to MY sending unit.
                                        > I carefully removed it from the tank and you wont need any gaskets
                                        > to replace it. In fact to do what it did requires removing and replacing
                                        > it several times. When you first get it out you will find that it is
                                        > nothing more than a variable resistor with a long float wire on it. As
                                        > it goes up and down with the fuel level, so goes the gauge. At the
                                        > opposite end of the float wire is the sending unit itself with a small
                                        > plate covering the wiper and resistor. That plate is also covering a lot
                                        > of rust that has accumulated over the years if it's anything like mine
                                        > was. Carefully prying the tabs open that hold the cover plate in place
                                        > allows access to said wiper and rust. A thorough cleaning of that
                                        > culprit with an electrical cleaner of your choice or WD-40 and then
                                        > carefully replacing the cover by bending the tabs back and you now know
                                        > "What isn't a problem!"
                                        > Before replacing the assembly back in the tank you can check the
                                        > gauge very easily by simply moving the float up and down and see if the
                                        > gauge is following suit. It must of course be plugged in and the
                                        > ignition turned on. If all is well there you can continue to the next
                                        > step which is time consuming but in my opinion well worth it for future
                                        > rides.
                                        > Assuming the bike is on the center stand, I replaced the sending
                                        > unit back into the tank. Then took a known quantity of fuel and put it
                                        > into the tank. In my case I used a quart. I replaced the tank on the
                                        > bike in operating position but didn't bolt anything down. I then turned
                                        > on the ignition to see what the fuel gauge read. If anything. In my case
                                        > it read a quarter of a tank of fuel. Not a good thing in my opinion to
                                        > have a fuel gauge reading a quarter tank when I only have a quart left.
                                        > Then by sliding the tank back, tipping the back of it up and, propping
                                        > it in place I was able to remove the sending unit without removing the
                                        > fuel and bending the float wire up so that I would get a lower reading
                                        > on the gauge. After a few tries I got the gauge to barely move off of
                                        > the empty peg with only a quart of fuel in the tank. This reading is on
                                        > the center stand so is a little higher than actual would be in riding
                                        > position but the error is on the safe side. Now i know when my gauge
                                        > reads almost empty I am really almost empty so it's time to fuel up.
                                        > One of the cleaning tips I've gleaned from another source is a
                                        > handful of sheet metal screws inserted into the empty tank and shaken
                                        > thoroughly to loosen all the rust. I did mine without the petcock or
                                        > sending unit in place to avoid damaging them. I then rinsed the tank
                                        > thoroughly and did the above mentioned "calibration".
                                        >
                                        > *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                                        > On 9/2/2012 9:38 PM, clepeterd wrote:
                                        > > I totally emptied the tank (messy), there was some residue at the bottom... rust. Not much, but some. Used a small LED torch and saw some rusty patches at the bottom, not near the fuel intake. Most of the stuff is out of the tank. Could not look around the fuel level sensor and did not want to remove that. It acts funny since I bought the bike, the needle "moves" in the meter like in old cars... but it still show the correct level.
                                        > >
                                        > > Refitted the tank and fitted stronger vacuum hose. Could not find 3/16 automotive hose in Quebec City, used some clear heavy gauge vinyl hose instead. It's a lot stronger than the previous clear gas hose fitted by my Bozo mechanic...
                                        > >
                                        > > I dissassembled the petcock as you stated, while the tank was empty (luckily, otherwise I would have spilled the whole tank down on my driveway) I goofed and did not take notice of the way it was pointing when I removed the shaft assembly... after fiddling about, I think I reassembled it correctly. But it now feels a lot "less tight" than before. Also, in the PRI position, there is a constant flow of fuel going down the fuel lines even if I don't press on it ... I have to somehow pull it a bit for it to stop. I fear that leaving it on PRI now will overflow the carbs, fill the airbox and the crankcase ??? In the ON and RES position, it seems to work ok.
                                        > >
                                        > > I will not have the time to do a test run until next week. I hope I fixed it more than I broke it. At least, I learned how to remove that tank and it's not that bad.
                                        > >
                                        > > The 2nd piston from the left is still running 100 F colder than the other. I presume maybe I have a bad spark plug ? Could not buy new plugs as its an holiday here in Canada and all is closed. The valves were done 5000 km ago by a triumph dealer and they were in spec. I was surprised as no shims were ever used even at that milleage... Bike now has 70000km.
                                        > >
                                        > > I dont think it's the ignition sensor as it does that even when the bike has just started.... I'm using an infrared thermometer to check the manifold temp.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks for your help and support along the way !
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • a2 - inoperative emessages
                                        I guess you have to set it so the float is near the bottom of the tank? rather than floating higher on its wire
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I guess you have to set it so the float is near the bottom of the tank? rather than floating higher on its wire




                                          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Like wise to Ed - that blasted thing harbours every bit of rust possible - I think it acts like an electromagnet and then drops everything into itself. I should have added yesterday the easiest way to clean the tank is with water it seems to dissolve sticky bits and there is plenty of it coming out of a hose pipe. I then dried the tank in about 10 minutes - no issue.
                                          >
                                          > And I got to sort my levels too
                                          >
                                          > A2
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Ed Johnson <edljohnson2@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > In my opinion you have avoided one of the biggest culprits that
                                          > > cause poor running in our Trophy's! The fuel sending unit. It is really
                                          > > a simple device that was not really designed for servicing but can be
                                          > > done carefully and eliminates a lot problems later. I like to use a
                                          > > phrase that someone passed on to me early in my troubleshooting learning
                                          > > techniques. "At least you now know what ISN'T the problem!" in case you
                                          > > don't find a problem where you are looking and you wont have to look
                                          > > there again. Having said that, here's what I did to MY sending unit.
                                          > > I carefully removed it from the tank and you wont need any gaskets
                                          > > to replace it. In fact to do what it did requires removing and replacing
                                          > > it several times. When you first get it out you will find that it is
                                          > > nothing more than a variable resistor with a long float wire on it. As
                                          > > it goes up and down with the fuel level, so goes the gauge. At the
                                          > > opposite end of the float wire is the sending unit itself with a small
                                          > > plate covering the wiper and resistor. That plate is also covering a lot
                                          > > of rust that has accumulated over the years if it's anything like mine
                                          > > was. Carefully prying the tabs open that hold the cover plate in place
                                          > > allows access to said wiper and rust. A thorough cleaning of that
                                          > > culprit with an electrical cleaner of your choice or WD-40 and then
                                          > > carefully replacing the cover by bending the tabs back and you now know
                                          > > "What isn't a problem!"
                                          > > Before replacing the assembly back in the tank you can check the
                                          > > gauge very easily by simply moving the float up and down and see if the
                                          > > gauge is following suit. It must of course be plugged in and the
                                          > > ignition turned on. If all is well there you can continue to the next
                                          > > step which is time consuming but in my opinion well worth it for future
                                          > > rides.
                                          > > Assuming the bike is on the center stand, I replaced the sending
                                          > > unit back into the tank. Then took a known quantity of fuel and put it
                                          > > into the tank. In my case I used a quart. I replaced the tank on the
                                          > > bike in operating position but didn't bolt anything down. I then turned
                                          > > on the ignition to see what the fuel gauge read. If anything. In my case
                                          > > it read a quarter of a tank of fuel. Not a good thing in my opinion to
                                          > > have a fuel gauge reading a quarter tank when I only have a quart left.
                                          > > Then by sliding the tank back, tipping the back of it up and, propping
                                          > > it in place I was able to remove the sending unit without removing the
                                          > > fuel and bending the float wire up so that I would get a lower reading
                                          > > on the gauge. After a few tries I got the gauge to barely move off of
                                          > > the empty peg with only a quart of fuel in the tank. This reading is on
                                          > > the center stand so is a little higher than actual would be in riding
                                          > > position but the error is on the safe side. Now i know when my gauge
                                          > > reads almost empty I am really almost empty so it's time to fuel up.
                                          > > One of the cleaning tips I've gleaned from another source is a
                                          > > handful of sheet metal screws inserted into the empty tank and shaken
                                          > > thoroughly to loosen all the rust. I did mine without the petcock or
                                          > > sending unit in place to avoid damaging them. I then rinsed the tank
                                          > > thoroughly and did the above mentioned "calibration".
                                          > >
                                          > > *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                                          > > On 9/2/2012 9:38 PM, clepeterd wrote:
                                          > > > I totally emptied the tank (messy), there was some residue at the bottom... rust. Not much, but some. Used a small LED torch and saw some rusty patches at the bottom, not near the fuel intake. Most of the stuff is out of the tank. Could not look around the fuel level sensor and did not want to remove that. It acts funny since I bought the bike, the needle "moves" in the meter like in old cars... but it still show the correct level.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Refitted the tank and fitted stronger vacuum hose. Could not find 3/16 automotive hose in Quebec City, used some clear heavy gauge vinyl hose instead. It's a lot stronger than the previous clear gas hose fitted by my Bozo mechanic...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I dissassembled the petcock as you stated, while the tank was empty (luckily, otherwise I would have spilled the whole tank down on my driveway) I goofed and did not take notice of the way it was pointing when I removed the shaft assembly... after fiddling about, I think I reassembled it correctly. But it now feels a lot "less tight" than before. Also, in the PRI position, there is a constant flow of fuel going down the fuel lines even if I don't press on it ... I have to somehow pull it a bit for it to stop. I fear that leaving it on PRI now will overflow the carbs, fill the airbox and the crankcase ??? In the ON and RES position, it seems to work ok.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I will not have the time to do a test run until next week. I hope I fixed it more than I broke it. At least, I learned how to remove that tank and it's not that bad.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The 2nd piston from the left is still running 100 F colder than the other. I presume maybe I have a bad spark plug ? Could not buy new plugs as its an holiday here in Canada and all is closed. The valves were done 5000 km ago by a triumph dealer and they were in spec. I was surprised as no shims were ever used even at that milleage... Bike now has 70000km.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I dont think it's the ignition sensor as it does that even when the bike has just started.... I'm using an infrared thermometer to check the manifold temp.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks for your help and support along the way !
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Ed Johnson
                                          Correct! *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB** ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Correct!
                                            *Ed J. *2001Triumph Trophy BBBB**
                                            On 9/3/2012 3:48 PM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:
                                            > I guess you have to set it so the float is near the bottom of the tank? rather than floating higher on its wire
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • clepeterd
                                            ... Do I have to remove the carbs to do so ?
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Clepeterd,
                                              >
                                              > Pull the carb tops and replace the small o-rings under the vacuum ports.
                                              > These tend to dryrot before the rest. Use extra caution upon reassembly as
                                              > these little buggers commonly shift and cause vacuum leaks. Once assembled,
                                              > cap off all the ports and proceed with the slide drop test. Lift each slide
                                              > and allow it to free fall. You should notice a dampened reduced speed drop
                                              > of equal delay. If not you either still have a leak or a bad diaphragm.
                                              > Once they all pass then proceed with the remaining vacuum circuit. New
                                              > hoses, petcock service, etc.
                                              >

                                              Do I have to remove the carbs to do so ?
                                            • Samuel Crider
                                              It would certainly make things much easier to remove them. It may be possible with them still installed. But would increase the chance of missinstalling the
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 3, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                It would certainly make things much easier to remove them. It may be
                                                possible with them still installed. But would increase the chance of
                                                missinstalling the tiny o-rings. Plus you would have to remove the air box
                                                anyway for the drop test. So its really just one more added step. And is
                                                easier than it looks except for disconnecting/connecting the bloody
                                                throttle cable. Reguardless,I would make a point to replace those port
                                                o-rings. But you could jump directly to the drop test which only requires
                                                pulling the airbox. And would remove any doubt as to what section is
                                                leaking.

                                                Hope this helps.

                                                Samuel
                                                On Sep 3, 2012 9:39 PM, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:

                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hi Clepeterd,
                                                > >
                                                > > Pull the carb tops and replace the small o-rings under the vacuum ports.
                                                > > These tend to dryrot before the rest. Use extra caution upon reassembly
                                                > as
                                                > > these little buggers commonly shift and cause vacuum leaks. Once
                                                > assembled,
                                                > > cap off all the ports and proceed with the slide drop test. Lift each
                                                > slide
                                                > > and allow it to free fall. You should notice a dampened reduced speed
                                                > drop
                                                > > of equal delay. If not you either still have a leak or a bad diaphragm.
                                                > > Once they all pass then proceed with the remaining vacuum circuit. New
                                                > > hoses, petcock service, etc.
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > Do I have to remove the carbs to do so ?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                                                > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original
                                                > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                                                > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                                                > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                                                > minimum when replying.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                > List owner: TriumphTrophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Samuel Crider
                                                Pull the petcock sending unit and tank. Carefully clean them all. Remove and either clean and replace the fuel screens. Or toss them and install small
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Sep 4, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Pull the petcock sending unit and tank. Carefully clean them all. Remove
                                                  and either clean and replace the fuel screens. Or toss them and install
                                                  small filters in the fuel lines. Or use both, its up to you. The screens
                                                  are located at the fuel inlet tee's and are a royal pain to service. Even
                                                  with the tank removed and are quite often missing. Petcock should provide
                                                  heavy equal flow from both outputs with only a light suction required.
                                                  Congrats! As it seems you just about have her licked..

                                                  Samuel
                                                  On Sep 2, 2012 3:34 PM, "a2 - inoperative emessages" <adeux60@...>
                                                  wrote:

                                                  > 1243 I think but I have a 900 so don't ask me. They all fire in pairs
                                                  > every 180 degrees with a lost spark on the exhaust phase.
                                                  >
                                                  > Fuel: ideal time to clean out the tank thoroughly - just in case and just
                                                  > put fresh fuel back(just elimininates another possibility)
                                                  >
                                                  > The tank design I think is poor and fuel will remain in the rhs indicating
                                                  > on the sender but will not reach the lhs and the outlet due to the central
                                                  > rib. Even making it hard to clean out.
                                                  >
                                                  > You definately need half a tank to diagnose safely.
                                                  >
                                                  > You can remove the two side screws from the petcock and the front contents
                                                  > will drop out (tapered) beware the rear and stabbing the diaphragm. Grease
                                                  > and replace..
                                                  >
                                                  > Not sure on the tube flows from the tank but the carbs share fuel across
                                                  > all four and I imagine lack of flow will affect all cylinders or outer
                                                  > pairs as each tube directly feeds a pair (on a line that feeds all four)
                                                  > this line across the carbs also includes the carb filters.
                                                  > Actually I think fuel should flow from both petcock tubes equally and just
                                                  > a full bore falling flow is more than sufficient to replenish the carbs. Do
                                                  > the Maths using mpg makes you realise what flow you need as the tank should
                                                  > empty quicker than you can burn it (quite easy)
                                                  >
                                                  > Rust showing in the tank would indicate that blockages are likely and you
                                                  > don't want that falling into your newly cleaned carbs...also the inner
                                                  > treatment can peal.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > A2
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I tried sucking on the petcock vacuum, plese note the tanks is NOT full,
                                                  > almost at reserve I would say:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > In PRI position: I noticed that the fuel flows from both fuel line,
                                                  > amost equally, maybe a little more from the hose on the BACK of the tank
                                                  > >
                                                  > > In ON position: I could not suck on it, no flow... After moving the tank
                                                  > a bit, flowing from the back hose but not from front.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > In the RES position: Flows OK. But like PRI, less from the front tube
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Could it be related to the fact that the tank is not full ? If no gas at
                                                  > ther intake, is it normal that the diaphragm is blocked ?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Also:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > What is the piston order number from left to right while sitting on the
                                                  > bike ? Are they called 1 2 3 4 ?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I taught left coil was for pistons 1 2 and right coild for 3 and 4...
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Thanks a LOT !
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
                                                  > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original
                                                  > writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
                                                  > topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                                                  > except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                                                  > minimum when replying.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > List owner: TriumphTrophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • a2 - inoperative emessages
                                                  Easier to check that you need to do this first. It is easy to take the carbs off but it is hard to get the airbox off. Once the airbox is off - with the engine
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Sep 4, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Easier to check that you need to do this first. It is easy to take the carbs off but it is hard to get the airbox off.

                                                    Once the airbox is off - with the engine runnng - look at the carb intakes; the sliders must act together - this will tell you if you have air leaks, bad rubbers etc.

                                                    Have you found the screws under the carb bowls that face outwards that allow you to drain the carbs in situ - this will tell you fuel is getting through...


                                                    A2





                                                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Hi Clepeterd,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Pull the carb tops and replace the small o-rings under the vacuum ports.
                                                    > > These tend to dryrot before the rest. Use extra caution upon reassembly as
                                                    > > these little buggers commonly shift and cause vacuum leaks. Once assembled,
                                                    > > cap off all the ports and proceed with the slide drop test. Lift each slide
                                                    > > and allow it to free fall. You should notice a dampened reduced speed drop
                                                    > > of equal delay. If not you either still have a leak or a bad diaphragm.
                                                    > > Once they all pass then proceed with the remaining vacuum circuit. New
                                                    > > hoses, petcock service, etc.
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Do I have to remove the carbs to do so ?
                                                    >
                                                  • a2 - inoperative emessages
                                                    no just remove the airbox and dismantle carb tops only
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Sep 4, 2012
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      no just remove the airbox and dismantle carb tops only

                                                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "clepeterd" <clepeterd@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Hi Clepeterd,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Pull the carb tops and replace the small o-rings under the vacuum ports.
                                                      > > These tend to dryrot before the rest. Use extra caution upon reassembly as
                                                      > > these little buggers commonly shift and cause vacuum leaks. Once assembled,
                                                      > > cap off all the ports and proceed with the slide drop test. Lift each slide
                                                      > > and allow it to free fall. You should notice a dampened reduced speed drop
                                                      > > of equal delay. If not you either still have a leak or a bad diaphragm.
                                                      > > Once they all pass then proceed with the remaining vacuum circuit. New
                                                      > > hoses, petcock service, etc.
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > Do I have to remove the carbs to do so ?
                                                      >
                                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.