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Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Re-jetting for improved fuel economy

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  • Jack Byers
    Hi Kevin, As I read these notes, I was wondering the same thing. I would guess my 95 was set up pretty lean to begin with to be a 50 state model, and pass the
    Message 1 of 24 , May 2, 2012
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      Hi Kevin,
      As I read these notes, I was wondering the same thing. I would
      guess my '95 was set up pretty lean to begin with to be a 50 state
      model, and pass the strict California emissions requirements. My
      plugs have always been just right in color when I pulled them.
      However: in town my mileage is in the high 20's and low 30's, but out
      on the road I get over 250 before I even have to go on reserve! That
      seems to me to be a bigger difference than it aught to be? I'd worry
      about leaning mine out any more.
      Kindest regards,
      Poppa Jack
      On May 2, 2012, at 12:07 PM, Kevin B wrote:

      > Now my worry would be how long before a melted piston because it is
      > running so lean.
      >
      > If the bike is high mileage I guess you could just be compensating
      > for needle/jet wear but in the back of my mind running hot and
      > seizure or melted piston would be niggling away!
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mike Stephenson
      Jack I wonder if the newer ones are more afflicted with fat jetting than the older ones? Mine is a 2001. I agree - if your plugs look good, I would not jet
      Message 2 of 24 , May 2, 2012
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        Jack

        I wonder if the newer ones are more afflicted with fat jetting than the
        older ones? Mine is a 2001. I agree - if your plugs look good, I would
        not jet leaner, or would proceed with great caution. Every indication with
        my bike is it was jetted fat.

        I hit reserve at 150 miles on my bike...I would love to see 250! Maybe I
        will now?





        On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Jack Byers <jackbyers@...> wrote:

        > Hi Kevin,
        > As I read these notes, I was wondering the same thing. I would
        > guess my '95 was set up pretty lean to begin with to be a 50 state
        > model, and pass the strict California emissions requirements. My
        > plugs have always been just right in color when I pulled them.
        > However: in town my mileage is in the high 20's and low 30's, but out
        > on the road I get over 250 before I even have to go on reserve! That
        > seems to me to be a bigger difference than it aught to be? I'd worry
        > about leaning mine out any more.
        > Kindest regards,
        > Poppa Jack
        > On May 2, 2012, at 12:07 PM, Kevin B wrote:
        >
        > > Now my worry would be how long before a melted piston because it is
        > > running so lean.
        > >
        > > If the bike is high mileage I guess you could just be compensating
        > > for needle/jet wear but in the back of my mind running hot and
        > > seizure or melted piston would be niggling away!
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike Stephenson
        Samuel Unfortunately I did not look at the needles to see what they were. I also suffer from CRS...and dont for sure recall what notch the clips were in! Off
        Message 3 of 24 , May 2, 2012
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          Samuel

          Unfortunately I did not look at the needles to see what they were. I also
          suffer from CRS...and dont for sure recall what notch the clips were in!
          Off hand, i want to say 3rd one down from top - ie middle?

          I also wonder about playing around with different needles. I have had
          great success doing that on one of my KTMs a few years back - variables
          like amount of taper, length, diameter all factoring in - but with my KTMs
          I had tons of info available online as a starting point...does not seem we
          are so lucky on the Trophies. On yet another KTM, modifying the slide cut
          away was the hot ticket. so many options!

          I am sure I will be checking the plugs in the not to distant future. I
          plan to be putting about 1000 to 1500 miles on the bike in a couple weeks
          so will have good baseline.

          Mike

          On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Samuel Crider <dieseldude1@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Hi Mike,
          >
          > Thanks for keeping us up on your adventure. Next time your under the caps.
          > Pull the needles one at a time and record the size numbers. Even with my
          > crs kickin my butt I seem to recall two different size needles in play.
          > Which naturally were installed in the wrong locations. I believe the
          > bikebandit parts view shows this. Would you happen to recall which notch
          > your clips are now set on? Back when I first put the wrenches to my beast.
          > I lowered the needles 1 notch during the carb rebuilding process. She was
          > quite thirsty before and was returning approx 27mpg. After the service she
          > now does between 34 to 39mpg. Next time I lift the tank and providing the
          > plug color allows. I just might drop them another notch. But at least she
          > no longer fouls the plugs in 1kmi. Granted she's a tad slower, but she has
          > never fouled since........
          >
          > Enjoy the season and ride safe.
          >
          > Samuel Crider
          > 96 BBBB PB
          > New Orleans
          >
          >
          > On May 2, 2012 3:31 PM, "Ed Johnson" <edljohnson2@...> wrote:
          >
          > Another point to consider is altitude. These bikes left the factory
          > headed for a multitude of regions to operate properly upon arrival. Not an
          > easy task in itself to achieve the correct combination for who knows where!
          > Just a thought!
          >
          > Ed J.
          > 2001 Triumph Trophy 1200
          > Indian Harbour Beach, FL 32937
          > Cell - 321/795-4387
          >
          > -----Original M...
          >
          >
          > On Behalf Of Kevin B
          > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:16 PM
          > To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject...
          >
          >
          > I guess when these bikes were built and factory assembled they may also
          > have
          > been jetted for perform...
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Greg
          Hi Ed, Startability sounds like a good word to me. I ve played with the carbs on my 96 900. The needles are on the middle notch and it is happiest there. I
          Message 4 of 24 , May 2, 2012
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            Hi Ed, Startability sounds like a good word to me.
            I've played with the carbs on my ' 96 900. The needles are on the middle notch and it is happiest there. I tried dropping the needles one notch and didn't like the way the engine performed. With the rev's at 4 or 5 grand and opening up the throttle the engine would hesitate so bad the front end would actually dip down. It reminded me of the lag that turbo charged engines had back in the early days.

            If someone is looking for better gas mileage changed the two o-rings that hold the float assembly. Also if the engine has 60k or more, take a close look at the emulsion tubes ( the tubes the needles go up and down in) after many miles the soft brass get ovalized by the stainless steel needles and are no longer round. Now I've made up a new word also.

            Some folks brag how their bikes don't need any choke on a cold start up. The down side to that is the low speed circuit is too rich. They've probably got the air screws turn out more than 2&1/2 turns, and I'm going to guess they've also got sooty spark plugs. Here is another place to improve the fuel mileage. Currently I have the air screws at 1&3/4 out. I can't stand the rattle at idle when the air screws are set at 1&1/2 turns.

            Also consider the type and size of windshield is on the bike when comparing fuel mileage. My brother's '95 900 always gets better fuel mileage than my '96 900 with a medium Clearview windshield.

            Ed, are you having any luck with the fairing tab project?

            Greg Andrews
            '96 900 BRG
            '98 900 Sprint Exec.

            "Ed Johnson" wrote:
            I have several sets of sooty plugs and not a brown one in the bunch so I don't think we would be creating a problem. I also think it may have something to do with the startability
            Ed J.
          • a2 - inoperative emessages
            Thanks for revisiting this thread - I have carefully read everyone comments on this one (as usual anyhow). I couldn t wait to try what you prescribe on my
            Message 5 of 24 , May 6, 2012
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              Thanks for revisiting this thread - I have carefully read everyone comments on this one (as usual anyhow).

              I couldn't wait to try what you prescribe on my 95BBB.(29k miles)

              I found all the needles were the same (didn't go down to look at the emulsion holes) marked 5E56 (tried googling that quickly but found nothing) - I was surprised they were the same actually. There was some sign of wear on the outer needles as if the metal coating had been rubbed off one side. The inner cylinder's needle looked perfect.

              My BBB has always run rich and there are other issues such as dicey starting and easy to stall at VERY low revs that have been minor issues too. - I mention these as I am trying to work out what's going on.

              I took the pilot jets down to 1.5 turns (from 2.0) about a year ago and the bike remained NOISY - clattery - listening to the comments here it should have become more noisy (I was trying to reduce richness overall) It reliably ticks over at 800 revs like a can of keys going downhill. At 1000 (target) it is less noisy (but still noisy!)

              That's the background - anyhow I found the clips on 4 (towards rich) (surprising!) so put them on 3 lowering the needles (midway for those that haven't looked and leaner)

              Wouldn't start easily initially (my fault I think) Where it used to like full choke it wouldn't start - it started easily on 3/4 choke and then it took an age to warm up (no power) - coming off choke in the usual time but seriously no power even at the first junction about 200 metres away (thought I was going to leg it!!). (Weather wet and a bit cold)

              Then I ran it for a while and the power issue disappeared - It just sounded so much better - The thing goes faster than my limits anyhow so I won't be telling you it runs faster etc but the delivery seemed smoother, quieter at tickover, started nicely later on. Then the "piece de resistance" (www.thefreedictionary.com/piece+de+resistance)
              I usually stall the bike when I sneak it quietly up the side of my house at tickover (trying not to disturb my neighbours) and it was virtually un-stall-able over the ramp and round the corners (hence the superglued indicators, scuffed boxes etc

              I know - Rose tinted glasses (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/through+rose-colored+glasses) - It's bound to blow up and I keep pinching myself to make sure I made it leaner....????.......

              A2




              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "ktm_mike_250" <ktm.mike.585@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > A couple weeks ago there was some discussion about raising the clip on the carb needles (or put differently - lowering the needles), to help improve fuel economy. (largely based on a comment from Steve (glueman???) as I recall).
              >
              > I got around to giving it a shot yesterday. I have not really ridden enough since (only 50 miles or so) to see impact on fuel economy, but did get a preliminary idea on impact on how the bike ran. Oh - this is on a 2001 1200. Fuel economy has been between 32 and 35 mpg prior to this.
              >
              > Bike starts up quick and easy - just like before. No issues there.
              >
              > In more or less normal riding, not deliberately lugging the engine way down to low RPM - all seems fine - maybe a touch less "oomph" initially, followed by what seems to be a bit more of a "hit" or spike in power delivery. That is not surprising - a touch leaner initially, then as throttle opens it is more fully on the main jet, and the power seems to come on a bit more suddenly (not that it really is - just seems that way with a bit less pull initially??) All in all, hard to tell much difference, certainly not a problem.
              >
              > But...when lugging it way down low in 6th gear then wacking the throttle wide open, I am not entirely sure if it has had an impact or not. Fact is, I've only put around 1500 miles on the bike since I got it on the road this spring, and I never did specifically lug it waaaay down...but here is what I found:
              >
              > In 6th gear - down to 40 mph, wack throttle wide open - no issue. Maybe a touch less hard pulling?
              >
            • Mike Stephenson
              A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I would be curious to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially hard to start, then
              Message 6 of 24 , May 6, 2012
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                A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I would be curious
                to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially hard to
                start, then became self correcting? All is well that ends well though!

                I have next week off from work, and am planning to do 1500 to 2000 miles of
                riding (heading to West Virgina for some great riding on the twisties -
                much better than flat and straight northern Michigan!). I am eager to see
                how it goes - will be my first bit of concentrated riding on the Trophy.

                Mike


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • a2 - inoperative emessages
                I haven t really got a baseline for fuel economy - once I worked out it was disappointing and linked to the fun I was having I just forgot about it especially
                Message 7 of 24 , May 7, 2012
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                  I haven't really got a baseline for fuel economy - once I worked out it was disappointing and linked to the fun I was having I just forgot about it especially as recently I only use it for short trips. I am guessing it was closer to the 150 per tank end rather than 250 though.

                  I don't think I could start it initially as the sweet spot had moved - soon found it.

                  A2







                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.585@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I would be curious
                  > to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially hard to
                  > start, then became self correcting? All is well that ends well though!
                  >
                  > I have next week off from work, and am planning to do 1500 to 2000 miles of
                  > riding (heading to West Virgina for some great riding on the twisties -
                  > much better than flat and straight northern Michigan!). I am eager to see
                  > how it goes - will be my first bit of concentrated riding on the Trophy.
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Jack Byers
                  HeyA2, I m getting only about 150 MPG around town (short trips) as well on my 95 BBBB. All the stop and go eats fuel faster. Poppa ... [Non-text portions of
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 7, 2012
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                    HeyA2,
                    I'm getting only about 150 MPG around town (short trips) as well
                    on my '95 BBBB. All the stop and go eats fuel faster.
                    Poppa
                    On May 7, 2012, at 12:54 AM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:

                    > I haven't really got a baseline for fuel economy - once I worked
                    > out it was disappointing and linked to the fun I was having I just
                    > forgot about it especially as recently I only use it for short
                    > trips. I am guessing it was closer to the 150 per tank end rather
                    > than 250 though.
                    >
                    > I don't think I could start it initially as the sweet spot had
                    > moved - soon found it.
                    >
                    > A2
                    >
                    > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.
                    > 585@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I would be
                    > curious
                    > > to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially
                    > hard to
                    > > start, then became self correcting? All is well that ends well
                    > though!
                    > >
                    > > I have next week off from work, and am planning to do 1500 to
                    > 2000 miles of
                    > > riding (heading to West Virgina for some great riding on the
                    > twisties -
                    > > much better than flat and straight northern Michigan!). I am
                    > eager to see
                    > > how it goes - will be my first bit of concentrated riding on the
                    > Trophy.
                    > >
                    > > Mike
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • a2 - inoperative emessages
                    Yeah Poppa - but isn t it fun...A2
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 7, 2012
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                      Yeah Poppa - but isn't it fun...A2

                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Jack Byers <jackbyers@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > HeyA2,
                      > I'm getting only about 150 MPG around town (short trips) as well
                      > on my '95 BBBB. All the stop and go eats fuel faster.
                      > Poppa
                      > On May 7, 2012, at 12:54 AM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:
                      >
                      > > I haven't really got a baseline for fuel economy - once I worked
                      > > out it was disappointing and linked to the fun I was having I just
                      > > forgot about it especially as recently I only use it for short
                      > > trips. I am guessing it was closer to the 150 per tank end rather
                      > > than 250 though.
                      > >
                      > > I don't think I could start it initially as the sweet spot had
                      > > moved - soon found it.
                      > >
                      > > A2
                      > >
                      > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.
                      > > 585@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I would be
                      > > curious
                      > > > to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially
                      > > hard to
                      > > > start, then became self correcting? All is well that ends well
                      > > though!
                      > > >
                      > > > I have next week off from work, and am planning to do 1500 to
                      > > 2000 miles of
                      > > > riding (heading to West Virgina for some great riding on the
                      > > twisties -
                      > > > much better than flat and straight northern Michigan!). I am
                      > > eager to see
                      > > > how it goes - will be my first bit of concentrated riding on the
                      > > Trophy.
                      > > >
                      > > > Mike
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Jack Byers
                      I mean 150 Miles Per Tank not MPG ooops! (I don t want to get on Bob s sh*t list too!). I do seem to launch from stop lights. I love a spirited romp thru the
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 7, 2012
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                        I mean 150 Miles Per Tank not MPG ooops! (I don't want to get on
                        Bob's sh*t list too!). I do seem to launch from stop lights. I love a
                        spirited romp thru the cogs, and these things are so powerful that I
                        can get my jollys without really raising much fuss. Yes sir it is
                        sure fun. By the way A2 Thanks for all your input. I always enjoy
                        your tech hints.
                        Kindest regards,
                        Poppa Jack

                        On May 7, 2012, at 2:00 PM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:

                        > Yeah Poppa - but isn't it fun...A2
                        >
                        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Jack Byers <jackbyers@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > HeyA2,
                        > > I'm getting only about 150 MPG around town (short trips) as well
                        > > on my '95 BBBB. All the stop and go eats fuel faster.
                        > > Poppa
                        > > On May 7, 2012, at 12:54 AM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > I haven't really got a baseline for fuel economy - once I worked
                        > > > out it was disappointing and linked to the fun I was having I just
                        > > > forgot about it especially as recently I only use it for short
                        > > > trips. I am guessing it was closer to the 150 per tank end rather
                        > > > than 250 though.
                        > > >
                        > > > I don't think I could start it initially as the sweet spot had
                        > > > moved - soon found it.
                        > > >
                        > > > A2
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.
                        > > > 585@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I
                        > would be
                        > > > curious
                        > > > > to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially
                        > > > hard to
                        > > > > start, then became self correcting? All is well that ends well
                        > > > though!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have next week off from work, and am planning to do 1500 to
                        > > > 2000 miles of
                        > > > > riding (heading to West Virgina for some great riding on the
                        > > > twisties -
                        > > > > much better than flat and straight northern Michigan!). I am
                        > > > eager to see
                        > > > > how it goes - will be my first bit of concentrated riding on the
                        > > > Trophy.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Mike
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • a2 - inoperative emessages
                        Always a pleasure Poppa to read your eloquent descriptions, to tap into your experience and appreciate the inviting warm welcomes you give to all new nervous
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 9, 2012
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                          Always a pleasure Poppa to read your eloquent descriptions, to tap into your experience and appreciate the inviting warm welcomes you give to all new nervous members - such as I was.

                          Happiest getting it all back together....;)
                          A2

                          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Jack Byers <jackbyers@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I mean 150 Miles Per Tank not MPG ooops! (I don't want to get on
                          > Bob's sh*t list too!). I do seem to launch from stop lights. I love a
                          > spirited romp thru the cogs, and these things are so powerful that I
                          > can get my jollys without really raising much fuss. Yes sir it is
                          > sure fun. By the way A2 Thanks for all your input. I always enjoy
                          > your tech hints.
                          > Kindest regards,
                          > Poppa Jack
                          >
                          > On May 7, 2012, at 2:00 PM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:
                          >
                          > > Yeah Poppa - but isn't it fun...A2
                          > >
                          > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Jack Byers <jackbyers@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > HeyA2,
                          > > > I'm getting only about 150 MPG around town (short trips) as well
                          > > > on my '95 BBBB. All the stop and go eats fuel faster.
                          > > > Poppa
                          > > > On May 7, 2012, at 12:54 AM, a2 - inoperative emessages wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > I haven't really got a baseline for fuel economy - once I worked
                          > > > > out it was disappointing and linked to the fun I was having I just
                          > > > > forgot about it especially as recently I only use it for short
                          > > > > trips. I am guessing it was closer to the 150 per tank end rather
                          > > > > than 250 though.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I don't think I could start it initially as the sweet spot had
                          > > > > moved - soon found it.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > A2
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Mike Stephenson <ktm.mike.
                          > > > > 585@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > A2 - sounds like it may be the ticket for you as well. I
                          > > would be
                          > > > > curious
                          > > > > > to see how your fuel economy ends up. Odd how it was intially
                          > > > > hard to
                          > > > > > start, then became self correcting? All is well that ends well
                          > > > > though!
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I have next week off from work, and am planning to do 1500 to
                          > > > > 2000 miles of
                          > > > > > riding (heading to West Virgina for some great riding on the
                          > > > > twisties -
                          > > > > > much better than flat and straight northern Michigan!). I am
                          > > > > eager to see
                          > > > > > how it goes - will be my first bit of concentrated riding on the
                          > > > > Trophy.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Mike
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
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