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Re: Neutral Light - Charging or Ground Problem? Update

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  • slovcan
    OK, here s where I am so far. I did the temperature light fix, moved a ground from an upper radiator mount bolt to the frame (powder coating dremeled off) with
    Message 1 of 26 , Apr 1, 2012
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      OK, here's where I am so far. I did the temperature light fix, moved a ground from an upper radiator mount bolt to the frame (powder coating dremeled off) with the new temp light ground and dremeled off the powder coating under the under seat ground point ring terminals. Considering the engine now cranks over faster than it ever did since I got her, I don't think I need to add the second ground cable to the battery. I do have the 6 gauge wire and ring terminals on hand to make one if I think it'll help later. I took out the neutral switch and cleaned up the tab in the transmission with a piece of emery cloth on the end of a screwdriver as well as the brass tit on the end of the switch itself. I'll see how she runs tomorrow and if she'll run smoothly in neutral with the sidestand down and the bike standing upright. Whatever the outcome she's going back on the road. Last job is to recover the seat with bit more foam in it now that I have the shape right. Maybe I can do that tomorrow, too.

      Cheers,
      Glenn

      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "slovcan" <slovcan@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Gregg,
      >
      > Thank you for the link and the info. Now I can see how the system is assembled. Before I replaced my sidestand switch last year, I did run it with the switch bypassed for a while. No way would the engine start just by unplugging the switch. I had to jumper 2 wires on the switch side of the harness to get it to run. I can't remember now, but I don't think it was a 100% fix, but we'll see how things go this year with the extra details done as well.
      >
      > Glenn
      >
      > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg French" <ggregglf@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Slovan, Gordon & Rich
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I will explain, but first I would like you to view a fiche of the Gear
      > > Selector
      > >
      > > Drum. All early Hinckley Triumphs are much the same so take your pick or
      > > view my 1995 Daytona fiche.
      > > http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=
      > > <http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01
      > > =&block_02=301641&block_03=3645> &block_02=301641&block_03=3645 .
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Number 25 is the (not really) neutral switch and yes I have cleaned it.
      > > "Play with
      > > it on the bench" I did that, I even bought a new one just make sure I had a
      > > good #25. As for testing #25, put a continuity (audible works best) tester
      > > across both ends, note that continuity is always present no matter what
      > > position if the plunger shaft is in. Depressed or not continuity is always
      > > present, of course unless you have bad one. Providing good contact to ground
      > > when # 14 makes contact with #25 is what the neutral switch is all about. I
      > > have two good #25's. I have tried the "thinner washer" trick long ago, no
      > > luck.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Number 14 the Gear Indicator Plate has been "gently abrading - just to
      > > remove any accumulated patina or oxidization layer", no luck.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > So made and extension on my audible continuity tester so I could read
      > > continuity directly to the selector drum form #14 through the vacated
      > > neutral switch hole. At times I have some (high resistance. At times I have
      > > none. At times I have good continuity (less than 10 ohms) to ground thought
      > > #14 through #7 and its internal parts to ground on #1 the selector shaft.
      > > The continuity comes and goes depending on the amount of presser I put on
      > > #14 with my tester probe and as I wiggle the shift pedal.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Number 7 the Gear Actuating-wd houses #10 Plungers Pawl & #11 Plunger
      > > Spring. As #14 is susceptible to "patina or oxidization layer" so these
      > > parts must be susceptible to the same problem.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > All the listed parts are all part of the neutral ground circuit which makes
      > > it possible to start the bike on the side stand by bypassing the side stand
      > > kill switch and for course lighting the neutral light. High resistance or
      > > intermittence in this circuit will cause hard starting and missing with the
      > > side stand down.If you are having these problems, ground the neutral G/w
      > > wire to the frame and see if that eliminates them.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm trying to clean the patina and/or oxidization (without splitting the
      > > cases) so I can just have a neutral light. I can ground it out any time and
      > > ride on "old school".
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm having some luck. I started off with contact cleaner with no success.
      > > I'm now using Sea Foam penetrating oil and the resistance in the circuit is
      > > down. I think its working. I shift out of neutral so #14 does not block the
      > > vacated neutral switch hole and spray in the Sea Foam in from there using an
      > > extend red tube nozzle. Today when I thought this laborious email I'm going
      > > to try spraying from the oil drain hole.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'll keep you posted, Gregg
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • slovcan
      Well, the engine still wants to stall when I deploy the sidestand - and will stall instantly if I kick it out quickly. I guess I ll have to live with it for
      Message 2 of 26 , Apr 1, 2012
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        Well, the engine still wants to stall when I deploy the sidestand - and will stall instantly if I kick it out quickly. I guess I'll have to live with it for now. Maybe a thinner washer will make a difference because leaning her over onto the sidestand brings the engine back to normal idling. A little slack inside the trans allowing that neutral tab to lean just a bit more on the grounding tit when leaned over makes sense. Maybe a paper washer instead of the metal one which is already quite thin.

        Anyway, back on the road.

        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "slovcan" <slovcan@...> wrote:
        >
        > OK, here's where I am so far. I did the temperature light fix, moved a ground from an upper radiator mount bolt to the frame (powder coating dremeled off) with the new temp light ground and dremeled off the powder coating under the under seat ground point ring terminals. Considering the engine now cranks over faster than it ever did since I got her, I don't think I need to add the second ground cable to the battery. I do have the 6 gauge wire and ring terminals on hand to make one if I think it'll help later. I took out the neutral switch and cleaned up the tab in the transmission with a piece of emery cloth on the end of a screwdriver as well as the brass tit on the end of the switch itself. I'll see how she runs tomorrow and if she'll run smoothly in neutral with the sidestand down and the bike standing upright. Whatever the outcome she's going back on the road. Last job is to recover the seat with bit more foam in it now that I have the shape right. Maybe I can do that tomorrow, too.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Glenn
        >
        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "slovcan" <slovcan@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Gregg,
        > >
        > > Thank you for the link and the info. Now I can see how the system is assembled. Before I replaced my sidestand switch last year, I did run it with the switch bypassed for a while. No way would the engine start just by unplugging the switch. I had to jumper 2 wires on the switch side of the harness to get it to run. I can't remember now, but I don't think it was a 100% fix, but we'll see how things go this year with the extra details done as well.
        > >
        > > Glenn
        > >
        > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg French" <ggregglf@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Slovan, Gordon & Rich
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I will explain, but first I would like you to view a fiche of the Gear
        > > > Selector
        > > >
        > > > Drum. All early Hinckley Triumphs are much the same so take your pick or
        > > > view my 1995 Daytona fiche.
        > > > http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=
        > > > <http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01
        > > > =&block_02=301641&block_03=3645> &block_02=301641&block_03=3645 .
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Number 25 is the (not really) neutral switch and yes I have cleaned it.
        > > > "Play with
        > > > it on the bench" I did that, I even bought a new one just make sure I had a
        > > > good #25. As for testing #25, put a continuity (audible works best) tester
        > > > across both ends, note that continuity is always present no matter what
        > > > position if the plunger shaft is in. Depressed or not continuity is always
        > > > present, of course unless you have bad one. Providing good contact to ground
        > > > when # 14 makes contact with #25 is what the neutral switch is all about. I
        > > > have two good #25's. I have tried the "thinner washer" trick long ago, no
        > > > luck.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Number 14 the Gear Indicator Plate has been "gently abrading - just to
        > > > remove any accumulated patina or oxidization layer", no luck.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > So made and extension on my audible continuity tester so I could read
        > > > continuity directly to the selector drum form #14 through the vacated
        > > > neutral switch hole. At times I have some (high resistance. At times I have
        > > > none. At times I have good continuity (less than 10 ohms) to ground thought
        > > > #14 through #7 and its internal parts to ground on #1 the selector shaft.
        > > > The continuity comes and goes depending on the amount of presser I put on
        > > > #14 with my tester probe and as I wiggle the shift pedal.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Number 7 the Gear Actuating-wd houses #10 Plungers Pawl & #11 Plunger
        > > > Spring. As #14 is susceptible to "patina or oxidization layer" so these
        > > > parts must be susceptible to the same problem.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > All the listed parts are all part of the neutral ground circuit which makes
        > > > it possible to start the bike on the side stand by bypassing the side stand
        > > > kill switch and for course lighting the neutral light. High resistance or
        > > > intermittence in this circuit will cause hard starting and missing with the
        > > > side stand down.If you are having these problems, ground the neutral G/w
        > > > wire to the frame and see if that eliminates them.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I'm trying to clean the patina and/or oxidization (without splitting the
        > > > cases) so I can just have a neutral light. I can ground it out any time and
        > > > ride on "old school".
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I'm having some luck. I started off with contact cleaner with no success.
        > > > I'm now using Sea Foam penetrating oil and the resistance in the circuit is
        > > > down. I think its working. I shift out of neutral so #14 does not block the
        > > > vacated neutral switch hole and spray in the Sea Foam in from there using an
        > > > extend red tube nozzle. Today when I thought this laborious email I'm going
        > > > to try spraying from the oil drain hole.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I'll keep you posted, Gregg
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        >
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