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Re: Bleeding brakes etc..a further update

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  • gordon4046
    Hi Jubba, Thanks for your comments - I will bear it in mind. Thing was Traceys front brake worked just fine until I decided to change the hoses because, being
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 4, 2012
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      Hi Jubba,

      Thanks for your comments - I will bear it in mind.

      Thing was Traceys' front brake worked just fine until I decided to change the hoses because, being 20 years old, I suspected they were deteriorating internally and causing the hydraulic fluid in the reservoir to discolour but not to the same extent as the Clutch fluid was.
      I've already done the Front Brake Master Cylinder service (at the same time as I did the hoses) which just leaves the calipers.
      I would prefer to service the 2-pots as I have already 'accumulated' a virtually unused set of the solid discs...

      Cheers for now

      Gordon
      '92 BBB Oxford Blue (aka Tracey)
      '96 BBB BRG (aka Sharon)


      service or replace the 2-pot calipers with newer 4-pot ones.
      Good shout or not?

      Gordon, I myself done the swap to 4pot calipers last year and highly recommend the upgrade as I found around 50% increase in stopping ability and a much reduced pressure being applied to the lever.

      I suspect you have a failing master cylinder as indeed did i, which caused the exact symptoms you are suffering, personally i would sort it right now, as mine failed completely whilst trying to improve the feel on mot morning last year.
    • Ken Hastie
      Today I bled my brakes for the third time in my ownership of my Trophy. This was because my calipers needed servicing (UK winter road salt takes its toll). I
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 22, 2012
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        Today I bled my brakes for the third time in my ownership of my Trophy.
        This was because my calipers needed servicing (UK winter road salt takes its
        toll).

        I once again followed the Haynes Manual method of bleeding brakes (to the
        letter) and all was perfect.

        I wonder why people have so many problems bleeding brakes (I assume standard
        Trophy lines and calipers etc) ?

        I'm sure it's not because I am just lucky 8-)

        My memory is not so good and I forgot who sent me Tygon line a few years
        ago. The little bit I had left over of the smaller diameter was perfect for
        fitting over the bleed nipple and flexible enough to direct (with a guiding
        lightweight clamp) to the bottom of my little bottle. So, thanks anyway !


        Ken Hastie
        Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
        and D14 Bantams
         





        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: 23 February 2012 18:36
        > To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Bleeding brakes etc..
        >
        >
        > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TriumphTrophy/message/81159
        >
        > Is one such thread.
        >
        > If I was to do this again I also think I would slowly raise the fill
        > bottle ensuring that at caliper lever each caliper can be manoeuvred
        > and pistons pushed and pulled to get air out an an earlier stage before
        > moving up.
      • lovemytrophy
        Got to agree with that Ken. I recently stripped and rebuilt my rear caliper after it started binding. Just cleaning didn t work, so a complete stripdown,
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 22, 2012
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          Got to agree with that Ken. I recently stripped and rebuilt my rear caliper after it started binding. Just cleaning didn't work, so a complete stripdown, new pistons and seals and put back together using rubber grease. New pads in them, refitted and bled them no problem at all. You do need the rear plastic panels off to get proper access to the reservoir, but as long as that is kept topped up, the bleeding is a doddle.
          Long flexible pipe attached to bleed nipple and ending in an old coffee jar. 8mm spanner on the bleed nipple, open it 1/4 turn, press the brake pedal, close the bleed nipple, then release the brake pedal. Repeating that can get into quite a quick rhythm and like I said, as long as the reservoir is kept topped up, there is no problem at all.
          It went in for MOT the following day and the guy said that it was an excellent job, working just like new.
          It's just a shame that I can't get to the bottom of my poor starting/slow running with the same ease, but that all comes down to time available, as I am a shift worker, so don't get a lot of free time.

          Tony
          Chelmsford, UK


          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:
          >
          > Today I bled my brakes for the third time in my ownership of my Trophy.
          > This was because my calipers needed servicing (UK winter road salt takes its
          > toll).
          >
          > I once again followed the Haynes Manual method of bleeding brakes (to the
          > letter) and all was perfect.
          >
          > I wonder why people have so many problems bleeding brakes (I assume standard
          > Trophy lines and calipers etc) ?
          >
          > I'm sure it's not because I am just lucky 8-)
          >
          > My memory is not so good and I forgot who sent me Tygon line a few years
          > ago. The little bit I had left over of the smaller diameter was perfect for
          > fitting over the bleed nipple and flexible enough to direct (with a guiding
          > lightweight clamp) to the bottom of my little bottle. So, thanks anyway !
          >
          >
          > Ken Hastie
          > Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
          > and D14 Bantams
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: 23 February 2012 18:36
          > > To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Bleeding brakes etc..
          > >
          > >
          > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TriumphTrophy/message/81159
          > >
          > > Is one such thread.
          > >
          > > If I was to do this again I also think I would slowly raise the fill
          > > bottle ensuring that at caliper lever each caliper can be manoeuvred
          > > and pistons pushed and pulled to get air out an an earlier stage before
          > > moving up.
          >
        • Ken Hastie
          Well, that s slightly different to the method I follow in Haynes which is to apply the brake (squeezed the lever 2 or 3 times) and then open the bleed screw.
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 23, 2012
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            Well, that's slightly different to the method I follow in Haynes which is to
            apply the brake (squeezed the lever 2 or 3 times) and then open the bleed
            screw.

            When the lever has then 'given way' , time to tighten the bleed screw
            promptly.

            Then release the brake lever ever so slowly.

            Simples....

            Incidentally I used DOT 5.1 fluid for the first time. Compatible with old
            fluids, although I flushed the whole system anyway.



            Ken Hastie
            Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
            and D14 Bantams
             




            > -----Original Message-----
            > Long flexible pipe attached to bleed nipple and ending in an old coffee
            > jar. 8mm spanner on the bleed nipple, open it 1/4 turn, press the brake
            > pedal, close the bleed nipple, then release the brake pedal. Repeating
            > that can get into quite a quick rhythm and like I said, as long as the
            > reservoir is kept topped up, there is no problem at all.
            > It went in for MOT the following day and the guy said that it was an
            > excellent job, working just like new.
            > It's just a shame that I can't get to the bottom of my poor
            > starting/slow running with the same ease, but that all comes down to
            > time available, as I am a shift worker, so don't get a lot of free
            > time.
            >
            > Tony
            > Chelmsford, UK
            >
            >
            > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Today I bled my brakes for the third time in my ownership of my
            > Trophy.
            > > This was because my calipers needed servicing (UK winter road salt
            > > takes its toll).
            > >
            > > I once again followed the Haynes Manual method of bleeding brakes (to
            > > the
            > > letter) and all was perfect.
            > >
            > > I wonder why people have so many problems bleeding brakes (I assume
            > > standard Trophy lines and calipers etc) ?
            > >
            > > I'm sure it's not because I am just lucky 8-)
            > >
            > > My memory is not so good and I forgot who sent me Tygon line a few
            > > years ago. The little bit I had left over of the smaller diameter
            > was
            > > perfect for fitting over the bleed nipple and flexible enough to
            > > direct (with a guiding lightweight clamp) to the bottom of my little
            > bottle. So, thanks anyway !
            > >
            > >
            > > Ken Hastie
            > > Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40
            > > 350cc, D10 and D14 Bantams
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: 23 February 2012 18:36
            > > > To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Bleeding brakes etc..
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TriumphTrophy/message/81159
            > > >
            > > > Is one such thread.
            > > >
            > > > If I was to do this again I also think I would slowly raise the
            > fill
            > > > bottle ensuring that at caliper lever each caliper can be
            > manoeuvred
            > > > and pistons pushed and pulled to get air out an an earlier stage
            > > > before moving up.
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
            > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the
            > original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-
            > oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature
            > are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old
            > messages to a minimum when replying.
            >
            >
            > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
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            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • lovemytrophy
            OK Ken, although I do read the Haynes manual, I only use it as a guide as there are so many mistakes to be found in the various Haynes manuals that I have. In
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 23, 2012
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              OK Ken, although I do read the Haynes manual, I only use it as a guide as there are so many mistakes to be found in the various Haynes manuals that I have.
              In the Trophy 1200 electrical schematic for instance, on page 9.25 they made an absolute howler by just copying and pasting the coils from previous pages. The wiring to the coils is the opposite way round to the other diagrams, but they omitted to swap over the + and - signs on the coils. Had me baffled for a short while, but for some it may lead them up the totally wrong path.
              I know from various posts that some folk have had problems with air in the master cylinder, but for some reason, I never had that problem.
              I haven't seen any DOT 5.1 fluid around, I'll have to ask at my local dealer. What's the advantage of using that, over the usual DOT 4.1 ?

              Tony
              Chelmsford, UK


              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well, that's slightly different to the method I follow in Haynes which is to
              > apply the brake (squeezed the lever 2 or 3 times) and then open the bleed
              > screw.
              >
              > When the lever has then 'given way' , time to tighten the bleed screw
              > promptly.
              >
              > Then release the brake lever ever so slowly.
              >
              > Simples....
              >
              > Incidentally I used DOT 5.1 fluid for the first time. Compatible with old
              > fluids, although I flushed the whole system anyway.
              >
              >
              >
              > Ken Hastie
              > Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
              > and D14 Bantams
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > Long flexible pipe attached to bleed nipple and ending in an old coffee
              > > jar. 8mm spanner on the bleed nipple, open it 1/4 turn, press the brake
              > > pedal, close the bleed nipple, then release the brake pedal. Repeating
              > > that can get into quite a quick rhythm and like I said, as long as the
              > > reservoir is kept topped up, there is no problem at all.
              > > It went in for MOT the following day and the guy said that it was an
              > > excellent job, working just like new.
              > > It's just a shame that I can't get to the bottom of my poor
              > > starting/slow running with the same ease, but that all comes down to
              > > time available, as I am a shift worker, so don't get a lot of free
              > > time.
              > >
              > > Tony
              > > Chelmsford, UK
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hastie" <ken@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Today I bled my brakes for the third time in my ownership of my
              > > Trophy.
              > > > This was because my calipers needed servicing (UK winter road salt
              > > > takes its toll).
              > > >
              > > > I once again followed the Haynes Manual method of bleeding brakes (to
              > > > the
              > > > letter) and all was perfect.
              > > >
              > > > I wonder why people have so many problems bleeding brakes (I assume
              > > > standard Trophy lines and calipers etc) ?
              > > >
              > > > I'm sure it's not because I am just lucky 8-)
              > > >
              > > > My memory is not so good and I forgot who sent me Tygon line a few
              > > > years ago. The little bit I had left over of the smaller diameter
              > > was
              > > > perfect for fitting over the bleed nipple and flexible enough to
              > > > direct (with a guiding lightweight clamp) to the bottom of my little
              > > bottle. So, thanks anyway !
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Ken Hastie
              > > > Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40
              > > > 350cc, D10 and D14 Bantams
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Sent: 23 February 2012 18:36
              > > > > To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Bleeding brakes etc..
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TriumphTrophy/message/81159
              > > > >
              > > > > Is one such thread.
              > > > >
              > > > > If I was to do this again I also think I would slowly raise the
              > > fill
              > > > > bottle ensuring that at caliper lever each caliper can be
              > > manoeuvred
              > > > > and pistons pushed and pulled to get air out an an earlier stage
              > > > > before moving up.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
              > > agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the
              > > original writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-
              > > oriented topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature
              > > are allowed, except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old
              > > messages to a minimum when replying.
              > >
              > >
              > > Post message: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subscribe: TriumphTrophy-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > Unsubscribe: TriumphTrophy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > List owner: TriumphTrophy-owner@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • gordon4046
              Hi All, Yes, I was having trouble bleeding the brakes of my beloved MLT, a MkI BBB, but that was only as a result of changing ALL the Brake Lines and the
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 23, 2012
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                Hi All,

                Yes, I was having trouble bleeding the brakes of my beloved MLT, a MkI BBB, but that was only as a result of changing ALL the Brake Lines and the Clutch hose as well. These new hoses probably needed properly 'whetting' or else 'purge' the system once it is all connected up - to get rid of all the microscopic air-bubbles that adhere to the internal walls of the hoses when they are first filled with hydraulic oil - much like all the tiny air bubbles that stick the the inside of a drinking vessel when a liquid is poured-in...
                Anyway - very happy to report that both brake and clutch operation/performance is now as good if not better than it was previously - which was pretty good anyway.

                I found it frustrating, because like a lot of us I thought I'd covered everything and knew how to bleed brakes etc - it was only when I mentioned it to my 86 year-old Dad that he reminded me of the klingon air-bubbles and possible static electricity charge caused by the effects of modern packaging that the penny dropped.
                Having left MLT to stand for a week, it only took about 10 minutes on each of the Front Brake and Clutch just re-filling and bleeding and it was all back to normal. Yippee!

                MLS (a MkII BBB) was straight-forward by comparison when I changed all her lines, but now I come to think of it the atmospheric conditions were much more humid/moist....no, I won't go there.

                Cheers
                Gordon

                '92 MkI BBB Oxford Blue (aka My Lady Tracey)
                '96 MkII BBB BRG (aka My Lady Sharon)

                --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hastie" <ken@...> wrote:
                >
                > Today I bled my brakes for the third time in my ownership of my Trophy.

                > I once again followed the Haynes Manual method of bleeding brakes (to the
                > letter) and all was perfect.
                >
                > I wonder why people have so many problems bleeding brakes (I assume standard
                > Trophy lines and calipers etc) ?
                >
                > I'm sure it's not because I am just lucky 8-)

                > Ken Hastie
                > Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                > and D14 Bantams
              • Ken Hastie
                ... Yes, I m aware of the Haynes errors - for some reason they have a significant part of the BSA A10 primary drive reversed. If someone followed the Haynes
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 31, 2012
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                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com

                  > OK Ken, although I do read the Haynes manual, I only use it as a guide
                  > as there are so many mistakes to be found in the various Haynes manuals
                  > that I have.

                  Yes, I'm aware of the Haynes errors - for some reason they have a
                  significant part of the BSA A10 primary drive reversed. If someone followed
                  the Haynes manual, they would never get it to fit ! My comment was simply
                  that in this case (bleeding brakes as described in the Triumph Triples and
                  Fours manual, their instructions are spot on.

                  > I haven't seen any DOT 5.1 fluid around, I'll have to ask at my local
                  > dealer. What's the advantage of using that, over the usual DOT 4.1 ?

                  My dealer advised that 5.1 can be used with previous lesser specification
                  fluids. No need to completely bleed the system to start using it (as per
                  5.0)


                  Ken Hastie
                  Triumph Trophy 1200, BSA A75 Rocket Three, A10 Golden Flash, B40 350cc, D10
                  and D14 Bantams
                   
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