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Re: Motorcycle-only checkpoints

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  • JackM
    I have a two HUGE friggin problems with this. And maybe I d be less sensitive about it if we were not presently in a phase where our President was inserting
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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      I have a two HUGE friggin problems with this. And maybe I'd be less sensitive about it if we were not presently in a phase where our President was inserting the Federal government into every aspect of our private lives.

      Problem one, almost all law enforcement agencies in this country have a "probable cause" requirement by which they must adhere to initially pull someone over. These check points appear to ignore that.

      Problem two, our Constitution's 4th Amendment prohibits unlawful search and seizure. Since this check point deal is federally funded, the Constitution does indeed come into play. Other than obviously loud pipes, tell me how a law enforcement officer can determine that a passing motorcycle does or does not warrant being stopped and searched.

      All this crap about "safety' and the "public good" is just Progressivespeak to justify greater federal control over the lives of private citizens. What do you think gave rise to the TEA party in the first place?

      Motorcycle riders in America, you need to understand that you are the tip of the spear in terms of what the government will attempt to regulate, control or outlaw in the name of the public good. You get injured, you crash, you damage property and cost "the people" money. Hogwash. Most of us are insured and cover our own expenses. If someone isn't, prosecute them individually.

      Risk taking in America has always been part of the culture and has pretty much always been applauded. Tell the feckless Progressive eunuchs in Washington we will not live in a nanny state. The Federal Government exists to serve us, not vice-versa.

      Jack
      Placerville, CA
      (Hangtown, USA)


      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Allan K" <alkemy@...> wrote:
      >
      > From the AMA
      >
      > http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=15912501&queueid=6112139636
      >
    • ldwolfe@yahoo.com
      Lest I remind you, the Patriot Act basically put aside all constitutional rights!! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ... From: JackM
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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        Lest I remind you, the Patriot Act basically put aside all constitutional rights!!
        Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

        -----Original Message-----
        From: "JackM" <jackon2wheelz@...>
        Sender: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:22:38
        To: <TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com>
        Reply-To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Motorcycle-only checkpoints

        I have a two HUGE friggin problems with this. And maybe I'd be less sensitive about it if we were not presently in a phase where our President was inserting the Federal government into every aspect of our private lives.

        Problem one, almost all law enforcement agencies in this country have a "probable cause" requirement by which they must adhere to initially pull someone over. These check points appear to ignore that.

        Problem two, our Constitution's 4th Amendment prohibits unlawful search and seizure. Since this check point deal is federally funded, the Constitution does indeed come into play. Other than obviously loud pipes, tell me how a law enforcement officer can determine that a passing motorcycle does or does not warrant being stopped and searched.

        All this crap about "safety' and the "public good" is just Progressivespeak to justify greater federal control over the lives of private citizens. What do you think gave rise to the TEA party in the first place?

        Motorcycle riders in America, you need to understand that you are the tip of the spear in terms of what the government will attempt to regulate, control or outlaw in the name of the public good. You get injured, you crash, you damage property and cost "the people" money. Hogwash. Most of us are insured and cover our own expenses. If someone isn't, prosecute them individually.

        Risk taking in America has always been part of the culture and has pretty much always been applauded. Tell the feckless Progressive eunuchs in Washington we will not live in a nanny state. The Federal Government exists to serve us, not vice-versa.

        Jack
        Placerville, CA
        (Hangtown, USA)


        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Allan K" <alkemy@...> wrote:
        >
        > From the AMA
        >
        > http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=15912501&queueid=6112139636
        >




        ------------------------------------

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      • Robert
        And the Patriot Act has been un-sucessfully used as a defense by certain law enforcement agencies, they have been shot down in court, and LOST. Many times,
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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          And the Patriot Act has been un-sucessfully used as a defense by
          certain law enforcement agencies, they have been shot down in court, and
          LOST.

          Many times, people forget the Preable to the US Consitution :

          /We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
          Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility
          <http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#DOMTRAN>, provide for the
          common defence <http://www.usconstitution.net/constmiss.html>, promote
          the general Welfare
          <http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE>, and secure the
          Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity
          <http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#POSTERITY>, do ordain
          <http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#ORDAIN> and establish this
          Constitution for the United States of America.


          /Bob/
          /



          On 12/3/2010 2:48 PM, ldwolfe@... wrote:
          > Lest I remind you, the Patriot Act basically put aside all constitutional rights!!
          > Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Wm Snyder
          Hear, Hear! Jack, you are the blood of my heart! The only way to have America as it should be is to tolerate nothing less! ... From: JackM
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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            Hear, Hear! Jack, you are the blood of my heart!
            The only way to have America as it should be is to tolerate nothing less!

            --- On Fri, 12/3/10, JackM <jackon2wheelz@...> wrote:

            From: JackM <jackon2wheelz@...>
            Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Motorcycle-only checkpoints
            To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 2:22 PM







             









            I have a two HUGE friggin problems with this. And maybe I'd be less sensitive about it if we were not presently in a phase where our President was inserting the Federal government into every aspect of our private lives.



            Problem one, almost all law enforcement agencies in this country have a "probable cause" requirement by which they must adhere to initially pull someone over. These check points appear to ignore that.



            Problem two, our Constitution's 4th Amendment prohibits unlawful search and seizure. Since this check point deal is federally funded, the Constitution does indeed come into play. Other than obviously loud pipes, tell me how a law enforcement officer can determine that a passing motorcycle does or does not warrant being stopped and searched.



            All this crap about "safety' and the "public good" is just Progressivespeak to justify greater federal control over the lives of private citizens. What do you think gave rise to the TEA party in the first place?



            Motorcycle riders in America, you need to understand that you are the tip of the spear in terms of what the government will attempt to regulate, control or outlaw in the name of the public good. You get injured, you crash, you damage property and cost "the people" money. Hogwash. Most of us are insured and cover our own expenses. If someone isn't, prosecute them individually.



            Risk taking in America has always been part of the culture and has pretty much always been applauded. Tell the feckless Progressive eunuchs in Washington we will not live in a nanny state. The Federal Government exists to serve us, not vice-versa.



            Jack

            Placerville, CA

            (Hangtown, USA)



            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Allan K" <alkemy@...> wrote:

            >

            > From the AMA

            >

            > http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=15912501&queueid=6112139636

            >

























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ron Bogucki
            I guess that you also believe that sobriety check points and truck weigh stations are illegal also? Ron Bogucki 3214 Newcastle Way Snellville, GA 30039 Home
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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              I guess that you also believe that sobriety check points and truck weigh stations are illegal also?

              Ron Bogucki
              3214 Newcastle Way
              Snellville, GA 30039
              Home 770-979-3140
              Cell 706-577-3717








              almost all law enforcement agencies in this country have a "probable cause" requirement by which they must adhere to initially pull someone over. These check points appear to ignore that.





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            • Robert
              Weigh stations have been around for years and always in a fixed and well marked , documented location. I would not include them in the same category as pop up
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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                Weigh stations have been around for years and always in a fixed and well
                marked , documented location. I would not include them in the same
                category as pop up roadside check points. These Pop Up Road side check
                points are equivalent to the old portable speed limit signs and the cop
                hiding behind a bush looking specifically for out of state Drivers.....

                Sobriety Check Points are used for much more than checking sobriety.
                There are better ways to curb substance abusers using and driving.

                How many times have we seen or heard of a LEO having an accident because
                he had his head down looking at or typing on his computer mounted in the
                car while driving? Or someone using a cell phone.

                In this area there have been several accidents with the LEO's for this
                reason. Some have included fatalities.

                Do you advocate having a check point for everything?

                Gee, No Officer, that's Lint in my navel.....Oh yea I gotz me some Sock
                Fuzz between my toes.....Can I get a full body pat down
                also.....Hmmm.....this might be easier than conning the wife into it....

                Seriously, Where do we draw the line? Do we let the Government control
                anything and everything we do? Gee, do you advocate throwing out the
                Constitution also?

                Opps, I ride a bike that was NOT made in the USA...It was made in the UK
                and it has Triumph written across the tank. Oh yea, my jacket says the
                same thing on it. Does this mean I should get stopped ? Or that it's
                fair that someone riding a bike made 500 or so miles away in Germany
                gets waved on and I don't....Only because of the differences in the
                brand of bike and gear someone might be using? Making Government Bigger
                never solved anything.

                We have much larger issues to deal with in this country right now.

                Any Idea who the largest seller of illegal fire arms is ? You'd probably
                be surprised....

                What about the Ethanol contaminated gas we are forced to burn. It takes
                more energy to make the ethanol than we save. By putting Ethanol in the
                fuel, you instantly reduce the fuel efficiency by near 30%....Gee every
                driver buys 30% more fuel and pays 30% more TAX to go the same distance.

                It's all about money....and how to take it from the consumer.... 3
                Guesses where the TAX money does not go.

                For those of you driving through Jacksonville, FL Beware, the local
                Sherriff's Deputies Do Hide behind trees, bushes, on Private Property
                etc, with laser and or Radar speed guns. They may or may not be in
                Uniform, they may not have a marked patrol car. They won't bother to
                write someone a ticket for running a red light. But they will try to
                nail you with a speeding ticket.

                If you are at an intersection in Jacksonville and the light turns green.
                Wait and count for 3 seconds before you think about moving. There will
                most likely be 3 to 5 cars that will run their red light. If you move,
                you will get hit. Yet the police does not chase down people or stop them
                for running a red light. Geez, that might take some effort.

                Bob






                On 12/3/2010 7:55 PM, Ron Bogucki wrote:
                > I guess that you also believe that sobriety check points and truck weigh stations are illegal also?
                >
                > Ron Bogucki
                > 3214 Newcastle Way
                > Snellville, GA 30039
                > Home 770-979-3140
                > Cell 706-577-3717
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > almost all law enforcement agencies in this country have a "probable cause" requirement by which they must adhere to initially pull someone over. These check points appear to ignore that.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (15)
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              • Ron Bogucki
                All I m trying to do is point out that we are our own worst enemies. There are that 10 percent that bring the LEO down on all of us regardless of which sport
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 3, 2010
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                  All I'm trying to do is point out that we are our own worst enemies. There are that 10 percent that bring the LEO down on all of us regardless of which sport we partake of. If we can't police our selves, someone will police our sport for us. It's usually someone that has no idea what the sport is about that will do the policing. Allowing people to flaunt the laws only creates more laws. Like the florida law that requires license plates to be attached in a horizontal manner and readily visible to the police. You can thank the squids for that one. Mounting their license plates in front of the rear tire or on on a piano hinge so the cops can't get their tag number while they are trying to evade the pursuit.

                  Ron Bogucki
                  3214 Newcastle Way
                  Snellville, GA 30039
                  Home 770-979-3140
                  Cell 706-577-3717






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Luther T. Garcia
                  I will try to keep politics out of this observation. I have been a criminal defense lawyer for fifteen years. In that time I have seen countless roadblocks
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 4, 2010
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                    I will try to keep politics out of this observation.
                    I have been a criminal defense lawyer for fifteen years. In that time I have seen countless roadblocks and checkpoints thrown up in my state and in others. First it was sobriety, then it was seatbelts, then our state tried drug and gun checkpoints and that was tossed out. Down south it's immigration checkpoints. Does anyone think Willie nelson's truck was pulled over to check for illegal aliens?
                    The fact of checkpoints is they only work because police make sure they do. If they can't produce results, cops will make them produce. My son recently was ticketed 175$ for failing to sign the registration for his car. That was counted as a successful result.

                    You may think you have nothing to hide, and that only lawbreakers have to worry, but if a cop wants to tag you he will. I can guarantee that no one on this list could avoid a ticket if the police dont think the checkpoint is producing enough action.

                    I was ticketed once for running a red light, then he cop held me for 40 minutes until it was dark, and tagged me for riding after dark when my permit was Invalid. It was physically impossible to run the light he claimed I ran and not get hit. I rode without a motorcycle endorsement for nearly 20 years without any incident.

                    Fortunately for me, the judge lived on that intersection and agreed, then he tossed the other ticket as well. Do you want your freedom to rely on the individual police officer's whims? That's where this is all headed. And please don't give me the Obama this Obama that stuff. The supreme. Court majority who has said roadblocks are ok, and finds every loophole in our search and seizure laws to allow the police to stomp on our rights were nearly all republican appointees.

                    Luther T. Garcia

                    From my Iphone

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ed Johnson
                    Excellent post Luther! One of my best friends is a Sherriff s Deputy. Before the mandatory seat belt law was stoppable offense in Florida, He told me of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 4, 2010
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                      Excellent post Luther! One of my best friends is a Sherriff's Deputy. Before
                      the mandatory seat belt law was stoppable offense in Florida, He told me of
                      officers who would observe people not wearing their seat belts and
                      particularly children not strap in their car seats properly. They would pull
                      them over for a "tail light out" which mysteriously started working
                      perfectly once the driver was pulled over and out of the car. They would
                      then suggest that the driver check out this intermittent tail light problem
                      at their earliest convenience and then write them up for seat belt
                      violations. I asked him if he didn't think this was a little dishonest and
                      he said you don't have to see very many kids creamed into the windshield or
                      back rest to make you want to put a stop to it. Where there is a will there
                      is a way!

                      Ed J.
                      EdLJohnson2@...
                      2001 Triumph Trophy 1200
                      1964 Triumph Bonneville
                      Indian Harbour Beach, FL
                      Cell - 321/795-4387


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Luther T. Garcia
                      Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 11:51 AM
                      To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Motorcycle-only checkpoints

                      I will try to keep politics out of this observation.
                      I have been a criminal defense lawyer for fifteen years. In that time I
                      have seen countless roadblocks and checkpoints thrown up in my state and in
                      others. First it was sobriety, then it was seatbelts, then our state tried
                      drug and gun checkpoints and that was tossed out. Down south it's
                      immigration checkpoints. Does anyone think Willie nelson's truck was pulled
                      over to check for illegal aliens?
                      The fact of checkpoints is they only work because police make sure they do.
                      If they can't produce results, cops will make them produce. My son recently
                      was ticketed 175$ for failing to sign the registration for his car. That was
                      counted as a successful result.

                      You may think you have nothing to hide, and that only lawbreakers have to
                      worry, but if a cop wants to tag you he will. I can guarantee that no one on
                      this list could avoid a ticket if the police dont think the checkpoint is
                      producing enough action.

                      I was ticketed once for running a red light, then he cop held me for 40
                      minutes until it was dark, and tagged me for riding after dark when my
                      permit was Invalid. It was physically impossible to run the light he claimed
                      I ran and not get hit. I rode without a motorcycle endorsement for nearly 20
                      years without any incident.

                      Fortunately for me, the judge lived on that intersection and agreed, then he
                      tossed the other ticket as well. Do you want your freedom to rely on the
                      individual police officer's whims? That's where this is all headed. And
                      please don't give me the Obama this Obama that stuff. The supreme. Court
                      majority who has said roadblocks are ok, and finds every loophole in our
                      search and seizure laws to allow the police to stomp on our rights were
                      nearly all republican appointees.

                      Luther T. Garcia

                      From my Iphone

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ------------------------------------

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                      topics, and no postings of a political or commercial nature are allowed,
                      except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
                      minimum when replying.


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                    • Jack Byers
                      Hey Bob, When I was stationed at NAS-JAX, there in Jacksonville, Fla. back in the 60 s, the common practice was to keep your operator s license in one of those
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 5, 2010
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                        Hey Bob,
                        When I was stationed at NAS-JAX, there in Jacksonville, Fla. back
                        in the 60's, the common practice was to keep your operator's license
                        in one of those clear plastic covers with a $5 or $10 dollar bill
                        stuck in the back side of it. You handed it to the cop, he went back
                        to his car, came back handed you back your license, but you never
                        check the money. When you look later the folded bill would be gone,
                        and the cop would have a nice lunch on you. If you didn't have the
                        money in there, you got a ticket of some sort. I recall that at one
                        point the entire Jacksonville town counsel got jailed for
                        embezzlement and corruption! I think it was 1967. You had to be
                        careful back then. I also recall seeing the KKK coming to town for
                        what looked just like a Shriner's convention, except for the hoods.
                        They did a parade through town, then they burned a cross in JFK
                        square, where hundreds of them gathered for the rally. I'll bet they
                        don't get the city fathers to give them a permit for such festivities
                        these days.
                        Kindest regards,
                        Poppa Jack
                        On Dec 3, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Robert wrote:

                        > Weigh stations have been around for years and always in a fixed and
                        > well
                        > marked , documented location. I would not include them in the same
                        > category as pop up roadside check points. These Pop Up Road side check
                        > points are equivalent to the old portable speed limit signs and the
                        > cop
                        > hiding behind a bush looking specifically for out of state
                        > Drivers.....
                        >
                        > Sobriety Check Points are used for much more than checking sobriety.
                        > There are better ways to curb substance abusers using and driving.
                        >
                        > How many times have we seen or heard of a LEO having an accident
                        > because
                        > he had his head down looking at or typing on his computer mounted
                        > in the
                        > car while driving? Or someone using a cell phone.
                        >
                        > In this area there have been several accidents with the LEO's for this
                        > reason. Some have included fatalities.
                        >
                        > Do you advocate having a check point for everything?
                        >
                        > Gee, No Officer, that's Lint in my navel.....Oh yea I gotz me some
                        > Sock
                        > Fuzz between my toes.....Can I get a full body pat down
                        > also.....Hmmm.....this might be easier than conning the wife into
                        > it....
                        >
                        > Seriously, Where do we draw the line? Do we let the Government control
                        > anything and everything we do? Gee, do you advocate throwing out the
                        > Constitution also?
                        >
                        > Opps, I ride a bike that was NOT made in the USA...It was made in
                        > the UK
                        > and it has Triumph written across the tank. Oh yea, my jacket says the
                        > same thing on it. Does this mean I should get stopped ? Or that it's
                        > fair that someone riding a bike made 500 or so miles away in Germany
                        > gets waved on and I don't....Only because of the differences in the
                        > brand of bike and gear someone might be using? Making Government
                        > Bigger
                        > never solved anything.
                        >
                        > We have much larger issues to deal with in this country right now.
                        >
                        > Any Idea who the largest seller of illegal fire arms is ? You'd
                        > probably
                        > be surprised....
                        >
                        > What about the Ethanol contaminated gas we are forced to burn. It
                        > takes
                        > more energy to make the ethanol than we save. By putting Ethanol in
                        > the
                        > fuel, you instantly reduce the fuel efficiency by near 30%....Gee
                        > every
                        > driver buys 30% more fuel and pays 30% more TAX to go the same
                        > distance.
                        >
                        > It's all about money....and how to take it from the consumer.... 3
                        > Guesses where the TAX money does not go.
                        >
                        > For those of you driving through Jacksonville, FL Beware, the local
                        > Sherriff's Deputies Do Hide behind trees, bushes, on Private Property
                        > etc, with laser and or Radar speed guns. They may or may not be in
                        > Uniform, they may not have a marked patrol car. They won't bother to
                        > write someone a ticket for running a red light. But they will try to
                        > nail you with a speeding ticket.
                        >
                        > If you are at an intersection in Jacksonville and the light turns
                        > green.
                        > Wait and count for 3 seconds before you think about moving. There will
                        > most likely be 3 to 5 cars that will run their red light. If you move,
                        > you will get hit. Yet the police does not chase down people or stop
                        > them
                        > for running a red light. Geez, that might take some effort.
                        >
                        > Bob
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 12/3/2010 7:55 PM, Ron Bogucki wrote:
                        >> I guess that you also believe that sobriety check points and truck
                        >> weigh stations are illegal also?
                        >>
                        >> Ron Bogucki
                        >> 3214 Newcastle Way
                        >> Snellville, GA 30039
                        >> Home 770-979-3140
                        >> Cell 706-577-3717
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> almost all law enforcement agencies in this country have a
                        >> "probable cause" requirement by which they must adhere to
                        >> initially pull someone over. These check points appear to ignore
                        >> that.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
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