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Re: valve shim removal tool borrow/buy

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  • Jacques, Martin, VF-Group
    Matt, My gut feel is that the vibration comes from imbalanced carbs rather than out of spec valve clearances, but personally I d tend to adjust both at major
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 2, 2010
      Matt,

      My gut feel is that the vibration comes from imbalanced carbs rather
      than out of spec valve clearances, but personally I'd tend to adjust
      both at major service time.

      I've not seen any guides or how-to's on removing the cams to replace
      shims - I am expecting to have to do this myself at the next service in
      about 3 months so fancy trailblazing and compiling one yourself? I have
      the how-to on my website for the big service and *measuring* the
      clearances, but my bike has not needed any shim replacements yet.


      Martin

      03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles

      Bath, UK



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mattjhb01
      Hi Martin, you could be right with the carb balance! for some reason Id not thought about it being that! As for the cams out process, Ill definitely do a stage
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 2, 2010
        Hi Martin,

        you could be right with the carb balance! for some reason Id not thought about it being that!

        As for the cams out process, Ill definitely do a stage by stage should they need to come out. Ill see when I do some measuring. whats the url of your site? sounds interesting!

        Its about time I zipped up my man suit and got on with these more complex things, Ive done far more techy in my time but if youve not got your hands THAT dirty for a while you sorta loose confidence?

        Theres a few things I want to do on this service, one is checking all the diaphrams etc, so itll be a good time to hit the airbox and once and for all saw it in half! So a rebalance will be a must anyways.

        thanks for the carb idea, my brains full of sawdust at the moment!

        cheers,

        Matt
        02 trophy 12

        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@...> wrote:
        >
        > Matt,
        >
        > My gut feel is that the vibration comes from imbalanced carbs rather
        > than out of spec valve clearances, but personally I'd tend to adjust
        > both at major service time.
        >
        > I've not seen any guides or how-to's on removing the cams to replace
        > shims - I am expecting to have to do this myself at the next service in
        > about 3 months so fancy trailblazing and compiling one yourself? I have
        > the how-to on my website for the big service and *measuring* the
        > clearances, but my bike has not needed any shim replacements yet.
        >
        >
        > Martin
        >
        > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
        >
        > Bath, UK
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Jacques, Martin, VF-Group
        Matt, Please do take some photos and document the cam removal and re-shimming process. I am sure we would all appreciate it. My How-To guide is here,
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
          Matt,

          Please do take some photos and document the cam removal and re-shimming
          process. I am sure we would all appreciate it. My How-To guide is here,
          http://www.trackandrace.com/Workshop. I am happy to host your photos and
          description here too if you wanted.

          Glad you mentioned that you were going to check the carb diaphragms too,
          I've generally found at least one with a small tear or split every 24k
          miles or so.


          Martin

          03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles

          Bath - UK




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mattjhb01
          Martin, thats a great site, I found the link for it somewhere yesterday, cant remember where tho! Be great if you could host anything that I do. Im going to
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
            Martin,

            thats a great site, I found the link for it somewhere yesterday, cant remember where tho!

            Be great if you could host anything that I do. Im going to balance the carbs today as its an easy job and I need to ride a bit before I do the shims.. at the moment I get vibes in my hands for about an hour afterwards! Plus itll be a good test to see if that was actually the cause of the vibes.

            Ill keep in touch and let you have some pics and wotnot when Im done, probably within the next fortnight.

            cheers,

            Matt


            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@...> wrote:
            >
            > Matt,
            >
            > Please do take some photos and document the cam removal and re-shimming
            > process. I am sure we would all appreciate it. My How-To guide is here,
            > http://www.trackandrace.com/Workshop. I am happy to host your photos and
            > description here too if you wanted.
            >
            > Glad you mentioned that you were going to check the carb diaphragms too,
            > I've generally found at least one with a small tear or split every 24k
            > miles or so.
            >
            >
            > Martin
            >
            > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
            >
            > Bath - UK
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • mattjhb01
            after an hour of trying, no1 cylinder wont come into balance with the other 3 no matter what I try!! its way out as well, not just slightly out, trying to
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
              after an hour of trying, no1 cylinder wont come into balance with the other 3 no matter what I try!! its way out as well, not just slightly out, trying to bring it anywhere near produces a lovely misfire.

              would this indicate a valve clearance issue?

              could be doing that job sooner than expected!

              matt


              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@...> wrote:
              >
              > Martin,
              >
              > thats a great site, I found the link for it somewhere yesterday, cant remember where tho!
              >
              > Be great if you could host anything that I do. Im going to balance the carbs today as its an easy job and I need to ride a bit before I do the shims.. at the moment I get vibes in my hands for about an hour afterwards! Plus itll be a good test to see if that was actually the cause of the vibes.
              >
              > Ill keep in touch and let you have some pics and wotnot when Im done, probably within the next fortnight.
              >
              > cheers,
              >
              > Matt
              >
              >
              > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Matt,
              > >
              > > Please do take some photos and document the cam removal and re-shimming
              > > process. I am sure we would all appreciate it. My How-To guide is here,
              > > http://www.trackandrace.com/Workshop. I am happy to host your photos and
              > > description here too if you wanted.
              > >
              > > Glad you mentioned that you were going to check the carb diaphragms too,
              > > I've generally found at least one with a small tear or split every 24k
              > > miles or so.
              > >
              > >
              > > Martin
              > >
              > > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
              > >
              > > Bath - UK
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Jacques, Martin, VF-Group
              Matt, I m thinking air leak somewhere around cylinder 1 rather than valve clearances. Possibly the rubber boot that joins the carbs to the cylinder head, or
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
                Matt,

                I'm thinking air leak somewhere around cylinder 1 rather than valve
                clearances. Possibly the rubber boot that joins the carbs to the
                cylinder head, or one of the various seals in the carb itself.

                With the bike idling, spray something flammable and aerosol (WD40 for
                example) around carb 1 - do the revs change noticeably? If so,
                definitely an air leak somewhere.

                Also worth checking that the choke pull is closing correctly on that
                carb, and that all three throttle slides are opening in unison with the
                throttle.


                Martin

                03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles

                Bath - UK



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • mattjhb01
                Martin, sprayed some WD40 around and no difference that I can hear. Ive just ordered the oil and wotnots from squaredeals so Im going to start stripping down
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
                  Martin,

                  sprayed some WD40 around and no difference that I can hear.

                  Ive just ordered the oil and wotnots from squaredeals so Im going to start stripping down and have a look around. Ill take carbs out, clean them up, check diaphrams and check slides.

                  going to split the airbox as well while Im at it.. still cant beleive what a stupid design that is!! I already have some kind of lifetime filter in there from the previous owner, so itll just need cleaning out. Had new plugs in it when I serviced her at about 18k

                  then Ill do the shim check and if needed sort them out (cams out). will let her cool down a bit and take the carbs out today in case I need to order any (is this triumph only?)

                  cheers

                  matt



                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Matt,
                  >
                  > I'm thinking air leak somewhere around cylinder 1 rather than valve
                  > clearances. Possibly the rubber boot that joins the carbs to the
                  > cylinder head, or one of the various seals in the carb itself.
                  >
                  > With the bike idling, spray something flammable and aerosol (WD40 for
                  > example) around carb 1 - do the revs change noticeably? If so,
                  > definitely an air leak somewhere.
                  >
                  > Also worth checking that the choke pull is closing correctly on that
                  > carb, and that all three throttle slides are opening in unison with the
                  > throttle.
                  >
                  >
                  > Martin
                  >
                  > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
                  >
                  > Bath - UK
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Robert
                  Matt: No, if your carb will not come close to balance, it s a good indicator of a torn diaphram or a bad o-ring. Not Valve adjustment. If you really feel
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
                    Matt:

                    No, if your carb will not come close to balance, it's a good indicator
                    of a torn diaphram or a bad o-ring. Not Valve adjustment. If you
                    really feel you want learn and start doing valve checks and adjustments
                    for practice, Several of us would be happy to have you come over and do
                    ours whilst we sit and nurse a pint while supervising you.


                    Your problem IS not valve related.


                    Bob Clark


                    On 8/3/2010 8:05 AM, mattjhb01 wrote:
                    >
                    > after an hour of trying, no1 cylinder wont come into balance with the
                    > other 3 no matter what I try!! its way out as well, not just slightly
                    > out, trying to bring it anywhere near produces a lovely misfire.
                    >
                    > would this indicate a valve clearance issue?
                    >
                    > could be doing that job sooner than expected!
                    >
                    > matt
                    >
                    > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:TriumphTrophy%40yahoogroups.com>, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Martin,
                    > >
                    > > thats a great site, I found the link for it somewhere yesterday,
                    > cant remember where tho!
                    > >
                    > > Be great if you could host anything that I do. Im going to balance
                    > the carbs today as its an easy job and I need to ride a bit before I
                    > do the shims.. at the moment I get vibes in my hands for about an hour
                    > afterwards! Plus itll be a good test to see if that was actually the
                    > cause of the vibes.
                    > >
                    > > Ill keep in touch and let you have some pics and wotnot when Im
                    > done, probably within the next fortnight.
                    > >
                    > > cheers,
                    > >
                    > > Matt
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:TriumphTrophy%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group"
                    > <martin.jacques@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Matt,
                    > > >
                    > > > Please do take some photos and document the cam removal and
                    > re-shimming
                    > > > process. I am sure we would all appreciate it. My How-To guide is
                    > here,
                    > > > http://www.trackandrace.com/Workshop. I am happy to host your
                    > photos and
                    > > > description here too if you wanted.
                    > > >
                    > > > Glad you mentioned that you were going to check the carb
                    > diaphragms too,
                    > > > I've generally found at least one with a small tear or split every 24k
                    > > > miles or so.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Martin
                    > > >
                    > > > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
                    > > >
                    > > > Bath - UK
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • mattjhb01
                    after taking out the carbs and checking diaphrams and wotnots (they were all fine, looked completely brand new!) I found the tiny o-ring was missing from the
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 3, 2010
                      after taking out the carbs and checking diaphrams and wotnots (they were all fine, looked completely brand new!) I found the tiny o-ring was missing from the vacuum outlet under the diaphram cover on number 1. so you were right Martin! thats certainly what was causing the loss of pressure.. the odd thing is it must have been missing since the last time I gave it to a garage for a service (wont be doing that again, made that vow a while ago now).

                      also made the airbox mod too, my god that made life easier getting the carbs back in! (which i thoroughly cleaned before hand)

                      Im doing the other bits anyway, as shes all in bits. Every time I put the fairing back on it gets slightly harder as clips wear out and things start to fit badly!

                      shim check tomorrow, so if she needs any changes Ill start snapping pics tomorrow and make any notes of anything I learn.

                      cheers.

                      Matt


                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Martin,
                      >
                      > sprayed some WD40 around and no difference that I can hear.
                      >
                      > Ive just ordered the oil and wotnots from squaredeals so Im going to start stripping down and have a look around. Ill take carbs out, clean them up, check diaphrams and check slides.
                      >
                      > going to split the airbox as well while Im at it.. still cant beleive what a stupid design that is!! I already have some kind of lifetime filter in there from the previous owner, so itll just need cleaning out. Had new plugs in it when I serviced her at about 18k
                      >
                      > then Ill do the shim check and if needed sort them out (cams out). will let her cool down a bit and take the carbs out today in case I need to order any (is this triumph only?)
                      >
                      > cheers
                      >
                      > matt
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Matt,
                      > >
                      > > I'm thinking air leak somewhere around cylinder 1 rather than valve
                      > > clearances. Possibly the rubber boot that joins the carbs to the
                      > > cylinder head, or one of the various seals in the carb itself.
                      > >
                      > > With the bike idling, spray something flammable and aerosol (WD40 for
                      > > example) around carb 1 - do the revs change noticeably? If so,
                      > > definitely an air leak somewhere.
                      > >
                      > > Also worth checking that the choke pull is closing correctly on that
                      > > carb, and that all three throttle slides are opening in unison with the
                      > > throttle.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Martin
                      > >
                      > > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
                      > >
                      > > Bath - UK
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • mattjhb01
                      I got really bored last night and wrote a simple calculator in excel that returns the correct shim size and its triumph part number. (all part numbers checked
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                        I got really bored last night and wrote a simple calculator in excel that returns the correct shim size and its triumph part number. (all part numbers checked on Lings)

                        put it in the valve adjustment file folder.

                        Matt




                        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > after taking out the carbs and checking diaphrams and wotnots (they were all fine, looked completely brand new!) I found the tiny o-ring was missing from the vacuum outlet under the diaphram cover on number 1. so you were right Martin! thats certainly what was causing the loss of pressure.. the odd thing is it must have been missing since the last time I gave it to a garage for a service (wont be doing that again, made that vow a while ago now).
                        >
                        > also made the airbox mod too, my god that made life easier getting the carbs back in! (which i thoroughly cleaned before hand)
                        >
                        > Im doing the other bits anyway, as shes all in bits. Every time I put the fairing back on it gets slightly harder as clips wear out and things start to fit badly!
                        >
                        > shim check tomorrow, so if she needs any changes Ill start snapping pics tomorrow and make any notes of anything I learn.
                        >
                        > cheers.
                        >
                        > Matt
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Martin,
                        > >
                        > > sprayed some WD40 around and no difference that I can hear.
                        > >
                        > > Ive just ordered the oil and wotnots from squaredeals so Im going to start stripping down and have a look around. Ill take carbs out, clean them up, check diaphrams and check slides.
                        > >
                        > > going to split the airbox as well while Im at it.. still cant beleive what a stupid design that is!! I already have some kind of lifetime filter in there from the previous owner, so itll just need cleaning out. Had new plugs in it when I serviced her at about 18k
                        > >
                        > > then Ill do the shim check and if needed sort them out (cams out). will let her cool down a bit and take the carbs out today in case I need to order any (is this triumph only?)
                        > >
                        > > cheers
                        > >
                        > > matt
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Matt,
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm thinking air leak somewhere around cylinder 1 rather than valve
                        > > > clearances. Possibly the rubber boot that joins the carbs to the
                        > > > cylinder head, or one of the various seals in the carb itself.
                        > > >
                        > > > With the bike idling, spray something flammable and aerosol (WD40 for
                        > > > example) around carb 1 - do the revs change noticeably? If so,
                        > > > definitely an air leak somewhere.
                        > > >
                        > > > Also worth checking that the choke pull is closing correctly on that
                        > > > carb, and that all three throttle slides are opening in unison with the
                        > > > throttle.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Martin
                        > > >
                        > > > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
                        > > >
                        > > > Bath - UK
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Jacques, Martin, VF-Group
                        Excellent progress Matt, and great to hear you have found the vacuum leak. I am looking forward to hearing how the valve clearance measurements pan out today -
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                          Excellent progress Matt, and great to hear you have found the vacuum
                          leak.

                          I am looking forward to hearing how the valve clearance measurements pan
                          out today - my money is on all of them still being within specification.
                          Mine were still well within tolerance at the last check, 37k miles.


                          Martin

                          03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles

                          Bath - UK



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • mattjhb01
                          well! after an hour tinkering (oh its so nice to do that with no pressure of using it for work the next day? *is on holiday*) all of them are not within
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                            well! after an hour tinkering (oh its so nice to do that with no pressure of using it for work the next day? *is on holiday*) all of them are not within clearances!

                            most are bloody close to the lower limits, but some inlets are measuring 0.08x2, 0.09x2. Some of the exhausts are too tight as well, 0.14 (as close as I can measure as my guages arent fine enough, but I certainly have way too much slop on the 0.15).

                            So Ive started stripping down.. got as far (with nice photos) as starting to loosen the cams when I broke my bloody draper torx bit on the screws.. my god theyre tight. Unfortunately the wife is at work until 2, so I cant get a replacement until then. So will carry on later.

                            Im sure this is the first time the valve covers been off as it was a total bitch to loosen.. was a full wooden malet job. Still, everything looks nice inside with no signs of wear anywhere. Im figure that I have time to do this so might as well make the most of it, she needed an oil change anyway and it seems silly not to sort the clearances out even though they are very close to the limits.

                            will let you know how it goes.. other than bloody tight screws, it seems very straight forward getting the cams out. Also means I can note the shim sizes on the ones Im not changing for next time, which could be handy and save time in the future.

                            cheers,

                            Matt



                            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Excellent progress Matt, and great to hear you have found the vacuum
                            > leak.
                            >
                            > I am looking forward to hearing how the valve clearance measurements pan
                            > out today - my money is on all of them still being within specification.
                            > Mine were still well within tolerance at the last check, 37k miles.
                            >
                            >
                            > Martin
                            >
                            > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
                            >
                            > Bath - UK
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Jacques, Martin, VF-Group
                            Matt, Going from the memory of stripping my failed engine down, I think those torx cam cap bolts have serious threadlock on them. You might wish to apply a bit
                            Message 13 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                              Matt,

                              Going from the memory of stripping my failed engine down, I think those
                              torx cam cap bolts have serious threadlock on them. You might wish to
                              apply a bit of heat to them first to try and break the seal. I am fairly
                              sure I broke one of my torx bits too - good old Halfords professional
                              tools warranty worked a treat though.

                              Probably should have mentioned this yesterday - sorry, but I only
                              remembered it after your comment.


                              Martin

                              03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles

                              Bath - UK



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Greg
                              Hi Matt, Yes they are on tight, probably lock tight was used. Not a good place to be using a propane torch, I wonder would an electric heat gun work well
                              Message 14 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                                Hi Matt, Yes they are on tight, probably lock tight was used. Not a good place to be using a propane torch, I wonder would an electric heat gun work well enough to soften up the lock tight?

                                My brother broke a cam cap the first time he did the valve adjustment. He replaced those torx head bolts with hex bolts. I don't use lock tight and have had no problems.

                                I wrote out a diagram of all the valve shims and their clearances.

                                You'll notice a rough hex area on each cam. You'll be needing to fit a wrench on it when you start putting the cams back in. I had no wrench to fit it correctly so I had to grind on a wrench to make it fit the hex on the cam. You'll only need to rotate the cams a little bit while getting the arrows line up, that why the wrench. The chain should be tight across the top of the two cams and tight going down the front of the engine to the crank sprocket. Of course the crank sensor is pointing to #1 at TDC.
                                Write back if you have any questions.
                                Greg Andrews
                                '96 900 BRG
                                80,000 smiles

                                "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                most are bloody close to the lower limits, but some inlets are measuring Some of the exhausts are too tight as well...
                                starting to loosen the cams when I broke my bloody draper torx bit on the screws.. my god theyre tight...
                                it seems silly not to sort the clearances out even though they are very close to the limits.
                                cheers,
                                Matt
                              • bodger barclay
                                You might check out an earlier posting on an alternative tool http://old.nabble.com/Valve-shim-tool-and-shims--to27813197.html#a27827322 ... -- View this
                                Message 15 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                                  You might check out an earlier posting on an alternative tool

                                  http://old.nabble.com/Valve-shim-tool-and-shims--to27813197.html#a27827322



                                  mattjhb01 wrote:
                                  >
                                  > On reflection, I think Ill lift out the cams and do it as it doesnt look
                                  > that bad a job from the book.. and it gives me a chance to check over
                                  > everything else cam chain end.
                                  >
                                  > any tips for this job though would be really helpful!
                                  >
                                  > many thanks,
                                  >
                                  > Matt
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> Hi all,
                                  >>
                                  >> I need to check my clearances in the next few weeks on my 02 BBBB. Shes
                                  >> done 28,000 and didnt get her 18,000 check.. and with the vibes Im
                                  >> getting through the bars Im wondering if thats the problem? (any advice
                                  >> would be good)
                                  >>
                                  >> does anyone have the shim removal tool that I could either borrow or buy?
                                  >> (in UK) Its one of those tools that most of us would only use once and
                                  >> Im very strapped for cash at the moment!
                                  >>
                                  >> advice and comments most welcome.
                                  >>
                                  >> cheers,
                                  >>
                                  >> Matt
                                  >> 02 trophy 1200
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/valve-shim-removal-tool-borrow-buy-tp29323562p29347835.html
                                  Sent from the Triumph Trophy mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                • mattjhb01
                                  Its ok, all undone ok with a new socket. I think the first socket was slightly damaged which is why it slipped, I also got a 3/8 drive one so was able to use
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                                    Its ok, all undone ok with a new socket. I think the first socket was slightly damaged which is why it slipped, I also got a 3/8 drive one so was able to use the bigger rachet.

                                    anyway, cams out but no measurements on the shims.. sigh! after scouring the world of car shops for a micrometer and being met with blank faces and 'a what?' (yeah really) Ive had to order one online.. so rain stops play for the moment.

                                    oh, I also seem to have the worlds most unhelpful triumph dealer.. I phoned up and asked if they could do shim swaps, a big fat no to that one.. so I asked if I brought in the shims could they measure them for me and then Id order the new ones I needed.. BIG FAT NO TO THAT!! They really are terrible.

                                    Martin, I have enough pics to do a guide though, so Ill mock something up and send it to you. Could you send me your email address as they seem to be hidden on here.

                                    cheers,

                                    Matt


                                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques, Martin, VF-Group" <martin.jacques@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Matt,
                                    >
                                    > Going from the memory of stripping my failed engine down, I think those
                                    > torx cam cap bolts have serious threadlock on them. You might wish to
                                    > apply a bit of heat to them first to try and break the seal. I am fairly
                                    > sure I broke one of my torx bits too - good old Halfords professional
                                    > tools warranty worked a treat though.
                                    >
                                    > Probably should have mentioned this yesterday - sorry, but I only
                                    > remembered it after your comment.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Martin
                                    >
                                    > 03 1200 in Graphite, 46k miles
                                    >
                                    > Bath - UK
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • mattjhb01
                                    many thanks for the tips Greg, will certainly bear that in mind on reassembly. Matt
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                                      many thanks for the tips Greg, will certainly bear that in mind on reassembly.

                                      Matt


                                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Matt, Yes they are on tight, probably lock tight was used. Not a good place to be using a propane torch, I wonder would an electric heat gun work well enough to soften up the lock tight?
                                      >
                                      > My brother broke a cam cap the first time he did the valve adjustment. He replaced those torx head bolts with hex bolts. I don't use lock tight and have had no problems.
                                      >
                                      > I wrote out a diagram of all the valve shims and their clearances.
                                      >
                                      > You'll notice a rough hex area on each cam. You'll be needing to fit a wrench on it when you start putting the cams back in. I had no wrench to fit it correctly so I had to grind on a wrench to make it fit the hex on the cam. You'll only need to rotate the cams a little bit while getting the arrows line up, that why the wrench. The chain should be tight across the top of the two cams and tight going down the front of the engine to the crank sprocket. Of course the crank sensor is pointing to #1 at TDC.
                                      > Write back if you have any questions.
                                      > Greg Andrews
                                      > '96 900 BRG
                                      > 80,000 smiles
                                      >
                                      > "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                      > most are bloody close to the lower limits, but some inlets are measuring Some of the exhausts are too tight as well...
                                      > starting to loosen the cams when I broke my bloody draper torx bit on the screws.. my god theyre tight...
                                      > it seems silly not to sort the clearances out even though they are very close to the limits.
                                      > cheers,
                                      > Matt
                                      >
                                    • Greg
                                      Hi Matt, Use a magnet and take the shim off the bucket. Almost all of my shims have the size etched on to the underside of the shim. No measurement needed. As
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Aug 4, 2010
                                        Hi Matt, Use a magnet and take the shim off the bucket. Almost all of my shims have the size etched on to the underside of the shim. No measurement needed.
                                        As for getting other shims, I think Suzuki or Kawasaki uses the same shims. Here in the States the shims cost $6.00 each. But used ones are fine also.
                                        Greg

                                        "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                        cams out but no measurements on the shims.. sigh! after scouring the world of car shops for a micrometer and being met with blank faces and 'a what?
                                        oh, I also seem to have the worlds most unhelpful triumph dealer.. I phoned up and asked if they could do shim swaps, a big fat no to that one.. so I asked if I brought in the shims could they measure them for me and then Id order the new ones I needed.. BIG FAT NO TO THAT!! They really are terrible.
                                        Matt
                                      • mattjhb01
                                        Micrometer came today, in less than 24 hours of ordering (thanks ebay). So all out and measured. Greg, yeah I used a magnet to lift the whole bucket out and
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Aug 5, 2010
                                          Micrometer came today, in less than 24 hours of ordering (thanks ebay). So all out and measured. Greg, yeah I used a magnet to lift the whole bucket out and took the shim out of it in my hand, was MUCH easier than trying to do it in situe.

                                          the exhaust ones are 2.5 or 2.55's, and the inlet were 2.45, and one 2.375, so Im sure its been done before. No markings on anything as theyd all worn away.

                                          So 5 shims ordered from Lings, coudlnt swap any around which was annoying. So Ill have some 2.45's spare for when the 2.5's get inadequate and some 2.55's to throw into a shim pool if anyone has one/wants to set one up.

                                          Very wasy with the cams out too. Definitely the right choice, cant imagine having to do the exhausts with the removal tool, would mean more work in taking the rad off to get room, and even then the central spar would totally get in the way!

                                          hopefully reassembly will be as straight forward.

                                          cheers for all your advice so far folks, much appreciated.

                                          Matt
                                          02 trophy 12 (in a million peices)



                                          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi Matt, Use a magnet and take the shim off the bucket. Almost all of my shims have the size etched on to the underside of the shim. No measurement needed.
                                          > As for getting other shims, I think Suzuki or Kawasaki uses the same shims. Here in the States the shims cost $6.00 each. But used ones are fine also.
                                          > Greg
                                          >
                                          > "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                          > cams out but no measurements on the shims.. sigh! after scouring the world of car shops for a micrometer and being met with blank faces and 'a what?
                                          > oh, I also seem to have the worlds most unhelpful triumph dealer.. I phoned up and asked if they could do shim swaps, a big fat no to that one.. so I asked if I brought in the shims could they measure them for me and then Id order the new ones I needed.. BIG FAT NO TO THAT!! They really are terrible.
                                          > Matt
                                          >
                                        • Robert
                                          Matt: Did you measure the valve clearances BEFORE you took the shims out? Bob Clark ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Aug 5, 2010
                                            Matt:

                                            Did you measure the valve clearances BEFORE you took the shims out?

                                            Bob Clark


                                            On 8/5/2010 6:12 AM, mattjhb01 wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Micrometer came today, in less than 24 hours of ordering (thanks
                                            > ebay). So all out and measured. Greg, yeah I used a magnet to lift the
                                            > whole bucket out and took the shim out of it in my hand, was MUCH
                                            > easier than trying to do it in situe.
                                            >
                                            > the exhaust ones are 2.5 or 2.55's, and the inlet were 2.45, and one
                                            > 2.375, so Im sure its been done before. No markings on anything as
                                            > theyd all worn away.
                                            >
                                            > So 5 shims ordered from Lings, coudlnt swap any around which was
                                            > annoying. So Ill have some 2.45's spare for when the 2.5's get
                                            > inadequate and some 2.55's to throw into a shim pool if anyone has
                                            > one/wants to set one up.
                                            >
                                            > Very wasy with the cams out too. Definitely the right choice, cant
                                            > imagine having to do the exhausts with the removal tool, would mean
                                            > more work in taking the rad off to get room, and even then the central
                                            > spar would totally get in the way!
                                            >
                                            > hopefully reassembly will be as straight forward.
                                            >
                                            > cheers for all your advice so far folks, much appreciated.
                                            >
                                            > Matt
                                            > 02 trophy 12 (in a million peices)
                                            >
                                            > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                                            > <mailto:TriumphTrophy%40yahoogroups.com>, "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Hi Matt, Use a magnet and take the shim off the bucket. Almost all
                                            > of my shims have the size etched on to the underside of the shim. No
                                            > measurement needed.
                                            > > As for getting other shims, I think Suzuki or Kawasaki uses the same
                                            > shims. Here in the States the shims cost $6.00 each. But used ones are
                                            > fine also.
                                            > > Greg
                                            > >
                                            > > "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                            > > cams out but no measurements on the shims.. sigh! after scouring the
                                            > world of car shops for a micrometer and being met with blank faces and
                                            > 'a what?
                                            > > oh, I also seem to have the worlds most unhelpful triumph dealer.. I
                                            > phoned up and asked if they could do shim swaps, a big fat no to that
                                            > one.. so I asked if I brought in the shims could they measure them for
                                            > me and then Id order the new ones I needed.. BIG FAT NO TO THAT!! They
                                            > really are terrible.
                                            > > Matt
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Greg
                                            Hi Matt, The shims usually start around 2.70 I d think they have been changed a few times. How many miles are on the engine? I m wondering because of the shim
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Aug 5, 2010
                                              Hi Matt, The shims usually start around 2.70 I'd think they have been changed a few times. How many miles are on the engine? I'm wondering because of the shim sizes you are using.

                                              Is Ling's the local Triumph dealer? They should have extra shims to sell if they do any servicing at all. Try the Jap bike dealers they'll have the shims.

                                              I'm currently working on another head for my high mileage 900 engine. Ive already switched out the engine on the bike, but I'd like to put the engine back into service. Going for 1/4 million miles. The shims were near the limit and it just wasn't worth the expense of new seats and valves. I replaced those nasty torx bolts with a good grade of hex bolts. After the head work gets done I've got another sprag clutch to install. I love my projects.
                                              Greg

                                              "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                              the exhaust ones are 2.5 or 2.55's, and the inlet were 2.45, and one 2.375, so Im sure its been done before. No markings on anything as theyd all worn away.
                                              So 5 shims ordered from Lings, coudlnt swap any around which was annoying. So Ill have some 2.45's spare for when the 2.5's get inadequate
                                              Matt
                                              02 trophy 12 (in a million peices)
                                            • JackM
                                              I was able to do the exhaust valves with the standard tool without removing the radiator, but it was a pain. IN fact, the tool was a pain. Next time I will
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Aug 5, 2010
                                                I was able to do the exhaust valves with the standard tool without removing the radiator, but it was a pain. IN fact, the tool was a pain.

                                                Next time I will also remove the cams. That's what I had to do on a couple of older kawasakis I had, so at least it won't be a new experience.

                                                Related to the valve shims... the shims used on our Triumphs wer also used on some of the older Honda CB engines. As long as it is a 25mm diameter shim, you're good to go.

                                                Jack
                                                Placerville, CA
                                                (Hangtown USA)
                                              • mattjhb01
                                                lol yes I did Bob :)
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Aug 5, 2010
                                                  lol yes I did Bob :)



                                                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, Robert <apsllp@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Matt:
                                                  >
                                                  > Did you measure the valve clearances BEFORE you took the shims out?
                                                  >
                                                  > Bob Clark
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > On 8/5/2010 6:12 AM, mattjhb01 wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Micrometer came today, in less than 24 hours of ordering (thanks
                                                  > > ebay). So all out and measured. Greg, yeah I used a magnet to lift the
                                                  > > whole bucket out and took the shim out of it in my hand, was MUCH
                                                  > > easier than trying to do it in situe.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > the exhaust ones are 2.5 or 2.55's, and the inlet were 2.45, and one
                                                  > > 2.375, so Im sure its been done before. No markings on anything as
                                                  > > theyd all worn away.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > So 5 shims ordered from Lings, coudlnt swap any around which was
                                                  > > annoying. So Ill have some 2.45's spare for when the 2.5's get
                                                  > > inadequate and some 2.55's to throw into a shim pool if anyone has
                                                  > > one/wants to set one up.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Very wasy with the cams out too. Definitely the right choice, cant
                                                  > > imagine having to do the exhausts with the removal tool, would mean
                                                  > > more work in taking the rad off to get room, and even then the central
                                                  > > spar would totally get in the way!
                                                  > >
                                                  > > hopefully reassembly will be as straight forward.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > cheers for all your advice so far folks, much appreciated.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Matt
                                                  > > 02 trophy 12 (in a million peices)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > <mailto:TriumphTrophy%40yahoogroups.com>, "Greg" <gandrews@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Hi Matt, Use a magnet and take the shim off the bucket. Almost all
                                                  > > of my shims have the size etched on to the underside of the shim. No
                                                  > > measurement needed.
                                                  > > > As for getting other shims, I think Suzuki or Kawasaki uses the same
                                                  > > shims. Here in the States the shims cost $6.00 each. But used ones are
                                                  > > fine also.
                                                  > > > Greg
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                                  > > > cams out but no measurements on the shims.. sigh! after scouring the
                                                  > > world of car shops for a micrometer and being met with blank faces and
                                                  > > 'a what?
                                                  > > > oh, I also seem to have the worlds most unhelpful triumph dealer.. I
                                                  > > phoned up and asked if they could do shim swaps, a big fat no to that
                                                  > > one.. so I asked if I brought in the shims could they measure them for
                                                  > > me and then Id order the new ones I needed.. BIG FAT NO TO THAT!! They
                                                  > > really are terrible.
                                                  > > > Matt
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                • mattjhb01
                                                  Hi Greg, 28000 miles on the clock. No1 and 4 were the only ones needing any changes. After what Ive been reading I did think they were quite slim
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Aug 5, 2010
                                                    Hi Greg,

                                                    28000 miles on the clock. No1 and 4 were the only ones needing any changes. After what Ive been reading I did think they were quite slim measurements, but I suppose each head varies bike to bike somewhat?

                                                    I did notice some 'prying' marks on one of the cam caps which would suggest that theyve been out before.

                                                    Lings is a multi badge dealer that have a really good online shop.

                                                    Looking forward to buttoning everything back up again and rechecking. Other than the annoying waiting for bits its been an enjoyable job.

                                                    cheers,

                                                    Matt
                                                    02 trophy 12


                                                    http://www.lingstriumph.com/triumphcentralApp_core.0.LassoApp?pg=nav§num=d43e55170a29d542&-session=Triumph:5AD4C8621676920EFESGhnR5D5EB

                                                    my local dealer is totally aweful and wouldnt even offer to measure my shims for me if I took them in, let alone swap some about for me. Anyone would have thought Id asked for sexual favours of some kind when I asked him!





                                                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Matt, The shims usually start around 2.70 I'd think they have been changed a few times. How many miles are on the engine? I'm wondering because of the shim sizes you are using.
                                                    >
                                                    > Is Ling's the local Triumph dealer? They should have extra shims to sell if they do any servicing at all. Try the Jap bike dealers they'll have the shims.
                                                    >
                                                    > I'm currently working on another head for my high mileage 900 engine. Ive already switched out the engine on the bike, but I'd like to put the engine back into service. Going for 1/4 million miles. The shims were near the limit and it just wasn't worth the expense of new seats and valves. I replaced those nasty torx bolts with a good grade of hex bolts. After the head work gets done I've got another sprag clutch to install. I love my projects.
                                                    > Greg
                                                    >
                                                    > "mattjhb01" wrote:
                                                    > the exhaust ones are 2.5 or 2.55's, and the inlet were 2.45, and one 2.375, so Im sure its been done before. No markings on anything as theyd all worn away.
                                                    > So 5 shims ordered from Lings, coudlnt swap any around which was annoying. So Ill have some 2.45's spare for when the 2.5's get inadequate
                                                    > Matt
                                                    > 02 trophy 12 (in a million peices)
                                                    >
                                                  • mattjhb01
                                                    Unbelievably, it turns out that my new digital micrometer was totally up the swanny!! therefore I got totally the wrong shims sent to me!! After eventually
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Aug 11, 2010
                                                      Unbelievably, it turns out that my 'new' digital micrometer was totally up the swanny!! therefore I got totally the wrong shims sent to me!!

                                                      After eventually finding a good tool store, and buying a very nice manual type micrometer, Ive remeasured and reordered. Should be here tomorrow..

                                                      those of you who were thinking my current shims were really thin were right! they were all actually 2.65's or 2.7's, not the 2.4's that my junk measuring tool had told me! so not far out eh? *facepalm*

                                                      to recheck clearances though I did drop the cams back in, and it was dead easy.. it seems a very easy affair to remove cams to do this job, and I feel happy that Ive checked the whole cam chain shooting match while Im at it.

                                                      hopefully with the right shims Ill be firing on all cylinders tomorrow.

                                                      cheers for all your help folks, always appreciated.

                                                      matt
                                                      02 trophy 12 (still in millions of bits)

                                                      ps. Incidentally, Kawasaki nor suzuki carry 25mm shims it seems, but my suzuki dealer was more than happy to order me some triumph ones (as they service all makes). Why cant our triumph dealers be as helpful???

                                                      --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "JackM" <jackon2wheelz@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I was able to do the exhaust valves with the standard tool without removing the radiator, but it was a pain. IN fact, the tool was a pain.
                                                      >
                                                      > Next time I will also remove the cams. That's what I had to do on a couple of older kawasakis I had, so at least it won't be a new experience.
                                                      >
                                                      > Related to the valve shims... the shims used on our Triumphs wer also used on some of the older Honda CB engines. As long as it is a 25mm diameter shim, you're good to go.
                                                      >
                                                      > Jack
                                                      > Placerville, CA
                                                      > (Hangtown USA)
                                                      >
                                                    • mattjhb01
                                                      all sorted now, back together and sounding great. gave her a good clean up under the fairing as well while I was at it. used some of that SDoc 100 black
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Aug 13, 2010
                                                        all sorted now, back together and sounding great. gave her a good clean up under the fairing as well while I was at it. used some of that SDoc 100 black shine stuff.. amazing!

                                                        shall go out for a ride this afternoon, make the most of the sunshine.

                                                        cheers for all your help and advice, made a huge difference.

                                                        Ive put a small guide up in the file section for those who've not taken cams out, and we've also added it to Martins great site www.trackandrace.com.

                                                        happy days.

                                                        Matt
                                                        02 trophy 1200




                                                        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "mattjhb01" <yoda.uk@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Unbelievably, it turns out that my 'new' digital micrometer was totally up the swanny!! therefore I got totally the wrong shims sent to me!!
                                                        >
                                                        > After eventually finding a good tool store, and buying a very nice manual type micrometer, Ive remeasured and reordered. Should be here tomorrow..
                                                        >
                                                        > those of you who were thinking my current shims were really thin were right! they were all actually 2.65's or 2.7's, not the 2.4's that my junk measuring tool had told me! so not far out eh? *facepalm*
                                                        >
                                                        > to recheck clearances though I did drop the cams back in, and it was dead easy.. it seems a very easy affair to remove cams to do this job, and I feel happy that Ive checked the whole cam chain shooting match while Im at it.
                                                        >
                                                        > hopefully with the right shims Ill be firing on all cylinders tomorrow.
                                                        >
                                                        > cheers for all your help folks, always appreciated.
                                                        >
                                                        > matt
                                                        > 02 trophy 12 (still in millions of bits)
                                                        >
                                                        > ps. Incidentally, Kawasaki nor suzuki carry 25mm shims it seems, but my suzuki dealer was more than happy to order me some triumph ones (as they service all makes). Why cant our triumph dealers be as helpful???
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "JackM" <jackon2wheelz@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I was able to do the exhaust valves with the standard tool without removing the radiator, but it was a pain. IN fact, the tool was a pain.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Next time I will also remove the cams. That's what I had to do on a couple of older kawasakis I had, so at least it won't be a new experience.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Related to the valve shims... the shims used on our Triumphs wer also used on some of the older Honda CB engines. As long as it is a 25mm diameter shim, you're good to go.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Jack
                                                        > > Placerville, CA
                                                        > > (Hangtown USA)
                                                        > >
                                                        >
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