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RE: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Carb Advice

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  • nigel keating
    Not easy to diagnose without substitute coil unless the resistances across the windings are found to be out of spec. Very often a bad coil appears to be OK
    Message 1 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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      Not easy to diagnose without substitute coil unless the resistances across
      the windings are found to be out of spec. Very often a bad coil appears to
      be OK according to the resistances but is faulty anyway. If you replace with
      Nology then I guess you have to replace the wires. I only ever used OEM
      myself. Hopefully someone else will chip in with better knowledge.

      I guess a faulty lead might give the same symptoms as well or even a spark
      plug with cracked electrode insulator??

      Also I must say the coil problem is most common on the 1200 but mileage
      doesn't seem to matter. They go at any time.



      Cheers,



      Nigel



      -----Original Message-----
      :
      >
      > Are you sure it is a carb issue? Sounds like it could be a coil problem.
      > Ah, crud!

      Is there any to determine this for sure?

      I know the right coil to order (x3) - Single Outlet 152-001-060T
      PFC-06S, just shy of $200.

      Would I have to order wires, too? The bike has under 16,000 miles on it.







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Erv
      John, Sounds allmost like the enrichner(choke) isn t closeing fully. Inspect that first. The linkage accross the carbs is pretty thin and can bend easy if not
      Message 2 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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        John,
        Sounds allmost like the enrichner(choke) isn't closeing fully.
        Inspect that first. The linkage accross the carbs is pretty thin and
        can bend easy if not carefull. Also, disconnect the leads to the
        coils, clean contacts and ensure a good tight fit. Also, pull the
        plugs and inspect. Look to ensure all are the same color. If one or
        more is black or white, will narrow the search. Also, inspect the
        plug wires, ensure no corrosion(use a penlight to look deep inside
        the spark plug end), ensure they are seated fully. If coils are found
        to be defective(I don't believe so) replace with Nology. You can use
        the factory plug wires if good with no problem. Also, sync the carbs
        and set the idle screws out 2.5 turns from lightly seated, set the
        Idle to appx 1100-1200 rpms(altinator doesn't charge much below 1100)
        with engine hot. If all this passes muster, time to pull carbs.
        Clean, inspect diaphrams, inspect float valve and o-rings, re-set
        float height, check air filter, re-sync. If you do pull the carbs,
        clean all three filters, inspect/replace fuel lines/vacuum line.
        These are the most found probs for a rough running carbed 900.

        Post up again and let us all know how it goes or if you have more
        questions.

        Erv
        Deep in the Heart of Texas!!
      • Jon Nelson
        ... Roger. ... Well, it *could* be the coils but it doesn t *feel* like coils. Of course, I ve never had a triple before. ... I ll try that second (after choke
        Message 3 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Erv" <ervdrvr1@...> wrote:
          >
          > John,
          > Sounds allmost like the enrichner(choke) isn't closeing fully.
          > Inspect that first. The linkage accross the carbs is pretty thin and
          > can bend easy if not carefull.

          Roger.

          > Also, disconnect the leads to the
          > coils, clean contacts and ensure a good tight fit. Also, pull the
          > plugs and inspect. Look to ensure all are the same color. If one or
          > more is black or white, will narrow the search. Also, inspect the
          > plug wires, ensure no corrosion(use a penlight to look deep inside
          > the spark plug end), ensure they are seated fully. If coils are found
          > to be defective(I don't believe so) replace with Nology. You can use
          > the factory plug wires if good with no problem.

          Well, it *could* be the coils but it doesn't *feel* like coils. Of
          course, I've never had a triple before.

          > Also, sync the carbs
          > and set the idle screws out 2.5 turns from lightly seated, set the
          > Idle to appx 1100-1200 rpms(altinator doesn't charge much below 1100)
          > with engine hot.

          I'll try that second (after choke stuff.)

          > If all this passes muster, time to pull carbs.
          > Clean, inspect diaphrams, inspect float valve and o-rings, re-set
          > float height, check air filter, re-sync. If you do pull the carbs,
          > clean all three filters, inspect/replace fuel lines/vacuum line.
          > These are the most found probs for a rough running carbed 900.

          Some more info:

          last night I took it out again, filled up with gas, and ran around a
          while. I can use the throttle and hold the rpm at any position (only
          tried below 3000) without any wandering of problems. It runs worst
          just about 2000 near 2100 or 2200 and then completely clears out. If I
          am in a low-enough gear, it will pull cleanly from very low right
          through the rough spots (thus, under *load* it's fine). It's only
          *slight* throttle openings that I have trouble with, and only from say
          1000 through 2200. This is most noticeable when taking off in first
          gear. I typically have to slip the clutch just a bit, although I'm
          getting better at trusting that it won't die (it doesn't do that, it
          just sorta gags and then off it goes).

          I should also note that I replaced the fuel lines a month or two back
          with new high-end Viton (sp?) from Motion Pro. I didn't do the vacuum
          line, but it's fine at higher speeds so I didn't bother, and the
          vacuum line looks OK. I retained the little filters in the fuel lines,
          and they were perfectly clean.

          This *feels* like a carb. issue to me, but I don't know what a flakey
          (versus dead) coil feels like on a 900. Are there any 900 owners in my
          vicinity? I'm in Madison, Wisconsin.

          I *did* see a Blue Triumph yesterday near Black Earth on Hwy 78.
          Anybody from this list?
        • Erv
          Jon, Yea, does sound like a carb prob. Coils are weired when they go. But you do get a definite missfire out of them. Usually lower rpm s, but get s worse when
          Message 4 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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            Jon,
            Yea, does sound like a carb prob. Coils are weired when they go. But
            you do get a definite missfire out of them. Usually lower rpm's, but
            get's worse when engine gets heated up. If your's is allways the same
            rpm's and same throttle opening, I'd say carbs. Check sync and idle
            screws out to 2.5 turns, have a go. If still same, set screws to 3 turns
            (3 turns is just about the limit). If still same, may be the pilot jets
            a little gummed up. By the way, is the factory air intake system still
            fully intact? Reason I ask is because the nature of the CV carbs don't
            like much changes to the intake system without some poor running issues
            someplace. Also, valve clearance checked according to maint schedule?

            Hope this cleares it up.

            Erv
          • Jon Nelson
            ... The valves were done not too long ago by the previous owner - he is meticulous and thorough so I have no reason to doubt the accuracy. Also, the intake
            Message 5 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Erv" <ervdrvr1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Jon,
              > Yea, does sound like a carb prob. Coils are weired when they go. But
              > you do get a definite missfire out of them. Usually lower rpm's, but
              > get's worse when engine gets heated up. If your's is allways the same
              > rpm's and same throttle opening, I'd say carbs. Check sync and idle
              > screws out to 2.5 turns, have a go. If still same, set screws to 3 turns
              > (3 turns is just about the limit). If still same, may be the pilot jets
              > a little gummed up. By the way, is the factory air intake system still
              > fully intact? Reason I ask is because the nature of the CV carbs don't
              > like much changes to the intake system without some poor running issues
              > someplace. Also, valve clearance checked according to maint schedule?

              The valves were done not too long ago by the previous owner - he is
              meticulous and thorough so I have no reason to doubt the accuracy.
              Also, the intake system appears to be stock and intact, no mouse nests
              or anything for example (not 100% verified, however).

              I expect the pilots are a bit gummed up but I was hoping they'd have
              cleared by now. It was def. worse when I got it out of storage and has
              improved considerably, but this being the 4th or 5th tank, I expected
              any jet issues to have been either resolved or to require more manual
              attention.

              I'll check the sync and the idle screws, and the choke linkage too.

              I appreciate the help - the bike does run fairly well, just not right
              there. I've had all manner of motorcycles over the years. My 1985
              Venture Royale cost me several hundred dollars to get the carbs redone
              (they are VERY complicated carbs for a variety of reasons, not the
              least being they are for a 70 degree V4) but it was worth it - several
              years later they are *still* spot-on and I get 40-50 mpg out of that
              1200cc monster, and it goes like a scalded dog, too.

              I hope to get the 900 up to that level of awesome as soon as possible,
              but my discretionary funds are somewhat low at the moment.
            • nort75mk3@aol.com
              John I m sure your familiar with Sharer Cycle in Verona, Wis.? Go hangout there and pick their brains. Tim 96 trident 96 thunderbird USA **************Need a
              Message 6 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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                John

                I'm sure your familiar with Sharer Cycle in Verona, Wis.? Go hangout there
                and pick their brains.





                Tim
                96 trident
                96 thunderbird
                USA



                **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
                listings at AOL Autos.
                (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • triumphnutter
                Your pilot jets are buggered. Take the carbs off, remove the bowls and find the tiny jet recessed in a tube and remove it. Hard to clean as the orifice is so
                Message 7 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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                  Your pilot jets are buggered. Take the carbs off, remove the bowls
                  and find the tiny jet recessed in a tube and remove it. Hard to
                  clean as the orifice is so tiny. Be careful not to bore it out by
                  accident. I use a single strand of copper stranded wire, with some
                  kerosene and forced air. Might as well clean up the rest of the carb
                  but the problem you describe is classic for a plugged pilot jet.

                  Cheers,
                  Jonathan West


                  --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Nelson" <99trophy900@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  , and it's worse when cold. Until /real/ good and warmed up, the
                  > bike has difficulty clearing it's throat through those RPMs
                  on "nice and
                  > easy" throttle inputs. A bit more throttle and it bogs and then
                  catches and
                  > it's fine. Most anything after about 2000 and it pulls clean and
                  fine.
                • cpallenjr
                  Could you have a vacuum leak at one of the carb boots? I think the way to diagnose that is by spraying wd40 on the rubbers and listening for an RPM change. A
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 1, 2008
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                    Could you have a vacuum leak at one of the carb boots? I think the
                    way to diagnose that is by spraying wd40 on the rubbers and
                    listening for an RPM change. A bad coil might be found by checking
                    for a cold exhaust header pipe. And isn't the 2000-3000 range also
                    where the carbs switch over from the low speed (pilot jets) to the
                    main jets so you could have a clog there?

                    Just adding fuel to the fire!

                    Courtney in Seattle

                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Nelson" <99trophy900@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Erv" <ervdrvr1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > John,
                    > > Sounds allmost like the enrichner(choke) isn't closeing fully.
                    > > Inspect that first. The linkage accross the carbs is pretty thin
                    and
                    > > can bend easy if not carefull.
                    >
                    > Roger.
                    >
                    > > Also, disconnect the leads to the
                    > > coils, clean contacts and ensure a good tight fit. Also, pull
                    the
                    > > plugs and inspect. Look to ensure all are the same color. If one
                    or
                    > > more is black or white, will narrow the search. Also, inspect
                    the
                    > > plug wires, ensure no corrosion(use a penlight to look deep
                    inside
                    > > the spark plug end), ensure they are seated fully. If coils are
                    found
                    > > to be defective(I don't believe so) replace with Nology. You can
                    use
                    > > the factory plug wires if good with no problem.
                    >
                    > Well, it *could* be the coils but it doesn't *feel* like coils. Of
                    > course, I've never had a triple before.
                    >
                    > > Also, sync the carbs
                    > > and set the idle screws out 2.5 turns from lightly seated, set
                    the
                    > > Idle to appx 1100-1200 rpms(altinator doesn't charge much below
                    1100)
                    > > with engine hot.
                    >
                    > I'll try that second (after choke stuff.)
                    >
                    > > If all this passes muster, time to pull carbs.
                    > > Clean, inspect diaphrams, inspect float valve and o-rings, re-
                    set
                    > > float height, check air filter, re-sync. If you do pull the
                    carbs,
                    > > clean all three filters, inspect/replace fuel lines/vacuum line.
                    > > These are the most found probs for a rough running carbed 900.
                    >
                    > Some more info:
                    >
                    > last night I took it out again, filled up with gas, and ran around
                    a
                    > while. I can use the throttle and hold the rpm at any position
                    (only
                    > tried below 3000) without any wandering of problems. It runs worst
                    > just about 2000 near 2100 or 2200 and then completely clears out.
                    If I
                    > am in a low-enough gear, it will pull cleanly from very low right
                    > through the rough spots (thus, under *load* it's fine). It's only
                    > *slight* throttle openings that I have trouble with, and only from
                    say
                    > 1000 through 2200. This is most noticeable when taking off in first
                    > gear. I typically have to slip the clutch just a bit, although I'm
                    > getting better at trusting that it won't die (it doesn't do that,
                    it
                    > just sorta gags and then off it goes).
                    >
                    > I should also note that I replaced the fuel lines a month or two
                    back
                    > with new high-end Viton (sp?) from Motion Pro. I didn't do the
                    vacuum
                    > line, but it's fine at higher speeds so I didn't bother, and the
                    > vacuum line looks OK. I retained the little filters in the fuel
                    lines,
                    > and they were perfectly clean.
                    >
                    > This *feels* like a carb. issue to me, but I don't know what a
                    flakey
                    > (versus dead) coil feels like on a 900. Are there any 900 owners
                    in my
                    > vicinity? I'm in Madison, Wisconsin.
                    >
                    > I *did* see a Blue Triumph yesterday near Black Earth on Hwy 78.
                    > Anybody from this list?
                    >
                  • Neil Christie
                    Jon Nelson said ...I expect the pilots are a bit gummed up but I was hoping they d have cleared by now. It was def. worse when I got it out of storage and
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 2, 2008
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                      "Jon Nelson" said "...I expect the pilots are a bit gummed up but I was
                      hoping they'd have
                      cleared by now. It was def. worse when I got it out of storage and has
                      improved considerably, but this being the 4th or 5th tank, I expected
                      any jet issues to have been either resolved or to require more manual
                      attention.....

                      AS someone else suggested, the first thing I would check would be the
                      choke linkage - the bent metal part that slides sideways, ensure the
                      forks on that are properly placed on the carbs, and that the choke
                      (well, enrichment circuit, to be precise) is fully off when running. You
                      will need to remove the tank to see it correctly.

                      AND - if running fresh gas is making it improve, run some good carb
                      cleaner through a coupl e more tanks, too - either SeaFoam, or Techron
                      (I think the Yamaha brand carb cleaner used to be Techron - may still
                      be). Heavy dose, ride, sit, repeat. It will either make it better
                      faster, or do nothing.

                      Let us know.

                      Neil


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