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Re: [TriumphTrophy] cold stalling problem

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  • MICHAEL CHEYNE
    Skeet, It seems your problem isn t the normal cold running one then! I can only suggest that if the engine stops instantaneously then it is electrical and if
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 1, 2005
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      Skeet,
      It seems your problem isn't the normal cold running one then!
      I can only suggest that if the engine stops instantaneously then it is electrical and if it splutters it is more likely to be carburation/fuel. The puzzling bit is that it appears to clear up after a 20 minute ride! Is it something that is fairly constant, or has it been getting worse?
      Mike.

      > Ken thanks for the advise
      I replaced the plugs when i replaced the fule line and petcock. but the
      problem is still there. The other day when pulling out of my drive for
      work the bike stalled 6 times before I could get out of the drive. This is
      after warming the bike up with the chocke on for several minutes and with
      a good amount of throttle to get the bike going.
      The fuel lines where replaced with the factory org's and the vacum lines
      were replaced with gas line. I have not let the bike sit for more than a
      few days and have drained all of the old fuel out as well and run 2 or
      three tanks through the bike. I love this machine but this problem is
      driving me nuts. could this mean that I sould pull the carbs and clean
      them as well or maybe I sould look at some other area of the bike (coils
      ??) this problem has me quite puzzled.

      Thanks,
      Skeet.
      >
      >
      >
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    • sdwagoner@tc3net.com
      ... Thanksan only suggest that if the engine stops instantaneously then it is ... Thank you for your reply. The problem seem to get better when I 1st drained
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 1, 2005
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        > Skeet,fluebecausekeptalsofuelbecausefeelkeptany otheralso
        > It seems your problem isn't the normal cold running one then!
        Thanksan only suggest that if the engine stops instantaneously then it is
        > electrical and if it splutters it is more likely to be carburation/fuel.
        > The puzzling bit is that it appears to clear up after a 20 minute ride!
        > Is it something that is fairly constant, or has it been getting worse?
        > Mike.
        >
        >> Ken thanks for the advise
        > I replaced the plugs when i replaced the fule line and petcock. but the
        > problem is still there. The other day when pulling out of my drive for
        > work the bike stalled 6 times before I could get out of the drive. This is
        > after warming the bike up with the chocke on for several minutes and with
        > a good amount of throttle to get the bike going.
        > The fuel lines where replaced with the factory org's and the vacum lines
        > were replaced with gas line. I have not let the bike sit for more than a
        > few days and have drained all of the old fuel out as well and run 2 or
        > three tanks through the bike. I love this machine but this problem is
        > driving me nuts. could this mean that I sould pull the carbs and clean
        > them as well or maybe I sould look at some other area of the bike (coils
        > ??) this problem has me quite puzzled.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Skeet.
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >>Mike
        Thank you for your reply. The problem seem to get better when I 1st
        drained the tank and replaced the fuel petcock, but now I would have to
        say the problem is getting worse. I feel that part of this may be because
        I live in Michigan and the weather is getting colder. I feel I should
        also note that the bike is kept in my garage, with a cover on it, when
        left at work or anyother place that I may be at for more than and couple
        of hours. It alos has a new agm battery.

        Thanks,

        Skeet>>
        >>
        >
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      • Dave Davenport
        ... using ... I think my bike is properly tuned as a matter of fact! I have had all the factory specified service work done every six thousand miles by a very
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 1, 2005
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          --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <motoworld2001@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Davenport"
          > <davenport.d@w...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have to say my trophy usually starts right up without even
          using
          > > the choke.
          > Dave 96' 1200 "Merlot red"
          >
          >
          > And I sure you still wonder why your fuel mileage is so low compared
          > to a machine that is properly tuned...

          I think my bike is properly tuned as a matter of fact! I have had
          all the factory specified service work done every six thousand miles
          by a very qualified Triumph mechanic with over 30years of experience.
          It is nine years old and runs like new and gets gas mileage in the
          upper thirties to low forties range. And is easy to start(most of the
          time.)And it warms up very fast!
          Dave 96' Merlot red 1200
          >
        • Ken Hastie
          ... FWIW I also feel a tuned bike should start very easily. I hardly use any choke. Only winter season do I really need a bit of choke to start. In summer,
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 1, 2005
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            On 1 Nov 2005 at 21:49, Dave Davenport wrote:

            > I think my bike is properly tuned as a matter of fact! I have had
            > all the factory specified service work done every six thousand miles
            > by a very qualified Triumph mechanic with over 30years of experience.
            > It is nine years old and runs like new and gets gas mileage in the
            > upper thirties to low forties range. And is easy to start(most of the
            > time.)And it warms up very fast! Dave 96' Merlot red 1200 >

            FWIW I also feel a tuned bike should start very easily. I hardly use any choke. Only
            winter season do I really need a bit of choke to start. In summer, she starts almost
            immediately, and any choke used is turned off within a couple of seconds. A habit I
            picked up from my Father who convinced me black sooty plugs and burnt on carbon on
            piston heads would follow !

            Ken the Geordie

            Ken Hastie ken@...
          • Phil Smith
            This really sounds like the choke is sticking in the carbs. There are two places that are suspect. 1. Starter plunger/lever at the front of the carb might be
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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              This really sounds like the choke is sticking in the carbs.

              There are two places that are suspect.
              1. Starter plunger/lever at the front of the carb might be sticking
              and after it warms it "loosens up and relaeses.
              2. The butterfly in the carb is sticking just a bit and after a
              strong rev it "loosens" up and straightens out and stops choking.
              Possibly a third would be the choke cable midpoint cable split.
              To check or fix this, the tank must be removed.
              Lots of work. Not hard just takes lots of time.

              Ask the dealer how much to do it (carb sync and adjust?)




              > >
              > > Ken thanks for the advise
              > I replaced the plugs when i replaced the fule line and petcock.
              but the
              > problem is still there. The other day when pulling out of my drive
              for
              > work the bike stalled 6 times before I could get out of the drive.
              This is
              > after warming the bike up with the chocke on for several minutes
              and with
              > a good amount of throttle to get the bike going.
              > The fuel lines where replaced with the factory org's and the
              vacum lines
              > were replaced with gas line. I have not let the bike sit for more
              than a
              > few days and have drained all of the old fuel out as well and run
              2 or
              > three tanks through the bike. I love this machine but this problem
              is
              > driving me nuts. could this mean that I sould pull the carbs and
              clean
              > them as well or maybe I sould look at some other area of the bike
              (coils
              > ??) this problem has me quite puzzled.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Skeet.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Please remember that all opinions, suggestions, data citations &
              comments
              > > are solely & strictly the responsibility of each contributor.
              Making use
              > > of the information is solely at the risk & discretion of the
              reader!
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              _FAQ/FAQ.html"><font
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            • Phil Smith
              Talked to another friend that knows carbs, and The Helen Keller (without seeing it and smelling it, and hearing it, diagnosis is the Choke. ... light ... 20
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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                Talked to another friend that knows carbs, and The Helen Keller
                (without seeing it and smelling it, and hearing it, diagnosis is the
                Choke.

                > >> petcock. Now when the bike is cold the bike will stall at every
                light
                > >> and sputter when I slow down. The bike will run fine after apox
                20 min
                > >> of ridding. Can anyone tell me if this still sound like a fuel
                problem
                > >> or should I look else where. Thanks, Skeeter Wagoner
                > >
                > > Whenever I have a slow engine speed problem, e.g. coughing and
                > > spluttering, I replace
                > > the spark plugs. They cost next to nowt, and usually make a
                magical
                > > difference ! Next I
                > > look for water in the fuel. After that, I start on the
                potentially bigger
                > > problems.
                > >
                > > Ken the Geordie
                > >
                > > Ken thanks for the advise
                > I replaced the plugs when i replaced the fule line and petcock.
                but the
                > problem is still there. The other day when pulling out of my drive
                for
                > work the bike stalled 6 times before I could get out of the drive.
                This is
                > after warming the bike up with the chocke on for several minutes
                and with
                > a good amount of throttle to get the bike going.
                > The fuel lines where replaced with the factory org's and the
                vacum lines
                > were replaced with gas line. I have not let the bike sit for more
                than a
                > few days and have drained all of the old fuel out as well and run
                2 or
                > three tanks through the bike. I love this machine but this problem
                is
                > driving me nuts. could this mean that I sould pull the carbs and
                clean
                > them as well or maybe I sould look at some other area of the bike
                (coils
                > ??) this problem has me quite puzzled.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Skeet.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Please remember that all opinions, suggestions, data citations &
                comments
                > > are solely & strictly the responsibility of each contributor.
                Making use
                > > of the information is solely at the risk & discretion of the
                reader!
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                > > href="http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EDVOP5EPHnljXq-
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                _FAQ/FAQ.html"><font
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              • Alec Gore
                Ken, Your Dad must ve gone to the same school as mine! Use only sufficient choke to have it fire up; catch it with the throttle and close the choke; hold the
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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                  Ken,

                  Your Dad must've gone to the same school as mine!

                  Use only sufficient choke to have it fire up; catch it with the
                  throttle and close the choke; hold the throttle at a steady
                  1200-1500 rpm until she's warm enough to hold idle. On mine,
                  that's almost immediately in summer and after only 20-30 seconds
                  in cooler weather.

                  Regards

                  Alec

                  > FWIW I also feel a tuned bike should start very easily. I
                  > hardly use any choke. Only winter season do I really need a
                  > bit of choke to start. In summer, she starts almost
                  > immediately, and any choke used is turned off within a couple
                  > of seconds. A habit I picked up from my Father who convinced
                  > me black sooty plugs and burnt on carbon on piston heads
                  > would follow !
                • Phil Smith
                  There is an Echo in here! The choke is only the starting with this engine. Choke only enough to get it running and then high idle (1200-1500 rpm) for about
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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                    There is an Echo in here!

                    The choke is only the starting with this engine.
                    Choke only enough to get it running and then high idle (1200-1500
                    rpm) for about 10-30 seconds. It warms fine after starting and it
                    runs great.
                    On a cold morning (40F) it needs full choke to start and then back
                    off to 2-3 mm ON (minimum) for about a minute. Above 50 F it barely
                    needs any choke here.
                    I live in San Diego, at about 400' above sea level 70% humidity most
                    mornings. After it's started once for the day, NO CHOKE for starts
                    later in the day.
                    I know that REGULAR RIDING keeps it right.

                    I have noticed that the startup after letting it sit a few days
                    (RARELY) it takes a bit more to get going (WARM). Maybe 30-60
                    seconds. The only bike I've had that started easier was my 1983
                    Honda V45 Magna that was the best bike ever for reliability and no
                    maintenance.
                    Phil

                    > Ken,
                    >
                    > Your Dad must've gone to the same school as mine!
                    >
                    > Use only sufficient choke to have it fire up; catch it with the
                    > throttle and close the choke; hold the throttle at a steady
                    > 1200-1500 rpm until she's warm enough to hold idle. On mine,
                    > that's almost immediately in summer and after only 20-30 seconds
                    > in cooler weather.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    >
                    > Alec
                    >
                    > > FWIW I also feel a tuned bike should start very easily. I
                    > > hardly use any choke. Only winter season do I really need a
                    > > bit of choke to start. In summer, she starts almost
                    > > immediately, and any choke used is turned off within a couple
                    > > of seconds. A habit I picked up from my Father who convinced
                    > > me black sooty plugs and burnt on carbon on piston heads
                    > > would follow !
                    >
                  • Phil Smith
                    Just a BTW About a month ago I had a stalling problem during a ride. After a nice long ride (50 continuous miles). I came up to a highway intersection with a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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                      Just a BTW

                      About a month ago I had a stalling problem during a ride.
                      After a nice long ride (50 continuous miles).

                      I came up to a highway intersection with a stop sign.
                      The bike engine seemed to be sputtering/lurching a bit and then
                      stalled. I though I just didn't pull in the clutch enough and
                      stalled it (it happens). I pushed the starter and it fired up but
                      ran sludgy. I revved it up and it seemed ok at 2000rpm but would
                      not hold at idle.
                      Seems I pulled back the choke lever ever so slightly, (I mean
                      BARELY - maybe 1 mm?) with the gauntlet of the gloves I was wearing,
                      and it was killing the idle. I pushed the choke lever forward and
                      all is fine.
                      I think the choke cable/manifold to the valves need to be "spot on"
                      to work right.

                      Phil






                      > Your Dad must've gone to the same school as mine!
                      >
                      > Use only sufficient choke to have it fire up; catch it with the
                      > throttle and close the choke; hold the throttle at a steady
                      > 1200-1500 rpm until she's warm enough to hold idle. On mine,
                      > that's almost immediately in summer and after only 20-30 seconds
                      > in cooler weather.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      >
                      > Alec
                      >
                      > > FWIW I also feel a tuned bike should start very easily. I
                      > > hardly use any choke. Only winter season do I really need a
                      > > bit of choke to start. In summer, she starts almost
                      > > immediately, and any choke used is turned off within a couple
                      > > of seconds. A habit I picked up from my Father who convinced
                      > > me black sooty plugs and burnt on carbon on piston heads
                      > > would follow !
                      >
                    • Tom
                      ... I have to say my trophy usually starts right up without even ... compared ... Dave s retorted ... had ... miles ... experience. ... the time.)And it warms
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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                        --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Davenport"
                        <davenport.d@w...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <motoworld2001@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Davenport"
                        > > <davenport.d@w...> wrote:
                        I have to say my trophy usually starts right up without even
                        > using
                        > > > the choke.
                        > > Dave 96' 1200 "Merlot red"
                        > >
                        Tom said:
                        > > And I sure you still wonder why your fuel mileage is so low
                        compared
                        > > to a machine that is properly tuned...

                        Dave's retorted
                        > I think my bike is properly tuned as a matter of fact! I have
                        had
                        > all the factory specified service work done every six thousand
                        miles
                        > by a very qualified Triumph mechanic with over 30years of
                        experience.
                        > It is nine years old and runs like new and gets gas mileage in the
                        > upper thirties to low forties range. And is easy to start(most of
                        the time.)And it warms up very fast!
                        > Dave 96' Merlot red 1200

                        Tom's follow up:
                        Ok,
                        Let me see, I do recall a few group participants that were
                        very expressive about the poor fuel mileage that they were getting
                        from their Trophy's! Oh yeah, and one of those people was you,
                        correct!? But now it seems as though you are defending the fuel
                        mileage that your machine is providing, so much so that you were
                        willing to even add how well it runs, even after nine years. Ok, now
                        I will start off with, all Otto-Cycle machines fuel require
                        enrichment after a complete cool down of the machine!!! This
                        statement is well supported by documented facts, through out the
                        history of these internal combustion engines. So as not to question
                        your mechanics knowledge and or ability, I will assume it is a
                        purely financial reason why he does not use or have an exhaust
                        analyzer on hand, to perform the final adjustments to the vehicles
                        he works on!!! I am sure he uses a tool vacuum tool of some sort to
                        balance the induction system.
                        This type of equipment, along with the ability to measure
                        and understand the exhaust gas temperature of an engine, has been
                        the back bone of fuel management for nearly a century now. So given
                        the facts above, if an engine does not require enrichment first
                        thing in the morning, this is a solid indicator that the machine is
                        getting to much fuel at that point, period! Yes it only should
                        require enrichment for a short period the should be monitored as the
                        engine warms up and requires less, but still the fuel enrichment
                        curve is such, that the machine will need more fuel to operate when
                        cold, that it will need when it is hot. This is very a very basic
                        fact that cannot be disputed in this situation.
                        So again I will say, if your Trophy's fuel mileage sucks,
                        install the 19 / 40 sprocket set up, and have the machine properly
                        tuned.
                        Nuff-Said…
                        Oh yeah, keep your eye on your right wrist, it some times doesn't
                        know when to let off the throttle!!!
                        Tom D.
                        1999 BRG
                        BBBB
                        That did get 50mpg at legal speed, before the Daytona cams were
                        installed!
                        PS: This was supported by several other group members, each and
                        every time my observation was questioned.
                        Have a nice day…
                      • Greg Andrews
                        Hello Skeeter, I see a lot of advice coming in on your problem. Here s one I haven t seen yet. The Trophys are setup to run very lean at idle. So when its cold
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
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                          Hello Skeeter, I see a lot of advice coming in on your problem. Here's
                          one I haven't seen yet. The Trophys are setup to run very lean at
                          idle. So when its cold the mixture gets even leaner. This also affects
                          the idle speed. I turn up the idle to 1000 rpm's when its cold. Four
                          miles later the idle is too high and I need to turn it back down to
                          1000. Also, many of us have turned out the idle mixture screw on the
                          bottom side of the carbs. The sound of the engine at idle is way
                          better after turning out the screw to 2&1/4 turns. If you can't find
                          the idle mixture screw its because it is hidden by an aluminum plug.
                          Greg Andrews
                          '96 900 BRG

                          "wycamdad" wrote:
                          Now when the bike is cold the bike will stall at every light
                          and sputter when I slow down. The bike will run fine after apox 20 min
                          of riding. Can anyone tell me if this still sound like a fuel problem
                          or should I look else where. Thanks, Skeeter
                        • sdwagoner@verizon.net
                          From: Greg Andrews Date: Wed Nov 02 20:42:00 CST 2005 To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: cold
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 2, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            From: Greg Andrews <greg.andrews7@...>
                            Date: Wed Nov 02 20:42:00 CST 2005
                            To: TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: cold stalling problem

                            Hello Skeeter, I see a lot of advice coming in on your problem. Here's
                            one I haven't seen yet. The Trophys are setup to run very lean at
                            idle. So when its cold the mixture gets even leaner. This also affects
                            the idle speed. I turn up the idle to 1000 rpm's when its cold. Four
                            miles later the idle is too high and I need to turn it back down to
                            1000. Also, many of us have turned out the idle mixture screw on the
                            bottom side of the carbs. The sound of the engine at idle is way
                            better after turning out the screw to 2&1/4 turns. If you can't find
                            the idle mixture screw its because it is hidden by an aluminum plug.
                            Greg Andrews
                            '96 900 BRG

                            "wycamdad" wrote:
                            Now when the bike is cold the bike will stall at every light
                            and sputter when I slow down. The bike will run fine after apox 20 min
                            of riding. Can anyone tell me if this still sound like a fuel problem
                            or should I look else where. Thanks, Skeeter



                            Greg Thank you very much I will give this a shot and see what happens. Skeeter



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                          • Tom
                            ... wrote: Ok, I had to proof read this morning to smooth it out. It was a late night! Regards Tom D. Tom s follow up: Ok, Let me see, I do recall a few group
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 3, 2005
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                              --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <motoworld2001@y...>
                              wrote:


                              Ok,
                              I had to proof read this morning to smooth it out. It was a late
                              night!
                              Regards
                              Tom D.

                              Tom's follow up:
                              Ok,
                              Let me see, I do recall a few group participants that were
                              very expressive about the poor fuel mileage that they were getting
                              from their Trophy's! Oh yeah, and one of those people was you,
                              correct!? Now it seems as though you are defending the fuel
                              mileage that your machine is providing, so much so that you were
                              willing to even add how well it runs, even after nine years. Ok, now
                              I will start with, all Otto-Cycle machines require
                              fuel enrichment after a complete cool down of the machine!!! This
                              statement is well supported by documented facts, through out the
                              history of these internal combustion engines. So, as not to question
                              your mechanics knowledge and or ability, I will assume it is a
                              purely financial reason why he does not use or have an exhaust
                              analyzer, to perform the final adjustments on the vehicles
                              he works on!!! I am sure he uses a vacuum tool of some sort to
                              balance the induction system!?
                              This type of equipment, along with the ability to measure
                              and understand the exhaust gas temperature of an engine, has been
                              the backbone of fuel management for nearly a century now. So given
                              the facts above, if an engine does not require enrichment first
                              thing in the morning, this is a solid indicator that the machine is
                              getting to much fuel at that point, period! Yes, it only should
                              require enrichment for a short period of time, that is monitored as
                              the
                              engine warms up and requires less fuel to keep running. Still, the
                              fuel enrichment curve is such that the machine will need more fuel to
                              operate when cold, that it will need when it is hot. This is very a
                              very basic fact that cannot be disputed in this situation.
                              So again, I will say, if your Trophy's fuel mileage sucks,
                              install the 19 / 40 sprocket set up, and have the machine properly
                              tuned.
                              Nuff-Said…
                              Oh yeah, keep your eye on your right wrist, it some times doesn't
                              know when to let off the throttle!!!
                              Tom D.
                              1999 BRG
                              BBBB
                              That did get 50mpg at legal speed, before the Daytona cams were
                              installed!
                              PS: This was supported by several other group members, each and
                              every time my observation was questioned.
                              Have a nice day…
                            • Dave Davenport
                              Tom, I think you ve misunderstood what I ve said. I was simply stating the facts in my case. I can t argue your technical discourse on the correct fuel mixture
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 3, 2005
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                                Tom, I think you've misunderstood what I've said. I was simply
                                stating the facts in my case. I can't argue your technical discourse on
                                the correct fuel mixture as I am not a mechanic, but a good one has
                                worked on my Trophy and I am merely saying it runs great after more
                                then nine years, starts easily and usually doesn't need the choke
                                unless it has not been ridden for a long time or is extremely cold. You
                                are wrong about me ever complianing about the fuel mileage though. I
                                think it is great and much better them my car or even my 97'
                                Thunderbird gets and it's the thunderbird is missing a cyclinder! But
                                gas mileage isn't why I ride it regardless, its the smile it brings
                                when I twist the wrist! :-) Peace brother! Dave 96' 1200 "Melot Red"
                              • Gavin
                                My Trophy triple is a bitch to start in cold or damp but once its running it goes well all day, and who cares about fuel consumption :))
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 4, 2005
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                                  My Trophy triple is a bitch to start in cold or damp but once its
                                  running it goes well all day, and who cares about fuel consumption :))
                                • Tom
                                  ... Knowing the machine as well as I do, you should have it repaired. They should not be a BITCH to start in most any weather except for the EXTREEME cold.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 4, 2005
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                                    --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" <gavinwbruce@y...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My Trophy triple is a bitch to start in cold or damp but once its
                                    > running it goes well all day, and who cares about fuel consumption :))
                                    >


                                    Knowing the machine as well as I do, you should have it repaired. They
                                    should not be a "BITCH" to start in most any weather except for the
                                    EXTREEME cold.
                                    Tom D.
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