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RE: [TriumphTrophy] Re: High Beam Problems

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  • Bud Izen
    Thanks, Brian. Bruce is busy teaching - I haven t heard from him in a while. Every so often I get a funny joke that was passed his way. I guess I owe him a
    Message 1 of 9 , May 31, 2004
      Thanks, Brian. Bruce is busy teaching - I haven't heard from him in a while.
      Every so often I get a funny joke that was passed his way. I guess I owe him
      a note. It was good to meet him in person this past February in Texas.

      By the way, I understood what you meant, relay-terminology-wise. I wonder
      how long it will take me to find a replacement.

      Thanks again. Man, I sure rely on you guys for the great assistance.

      Bud Izen
      '99 Platinum 900
      I believe 3. to be the Strain Relief Relay (Mine just went due to
      Headlight
      Modulators, 2nd time).

      The two identical relays are each for high/low.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bud Izen
      If you have been following the posts recently, you ll recognize the unfortunate voice of experience here. First, there are two relays involved (with the engine
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 6, 2004
        If you have been following the posts recently, you'll recognize the
        unfortunate voice of experience here.

        First, there are two relays involved (with the engine off, the load relief
        relay plays no part here). When you turn on the ignition switch, and rock
        the dimmer switch from low to high, you should hear TWO relays clicking, not
        just one. If the high beam light works, that means your handlebar wiring is
        ok, and you have an open somewhere between the connector (left side of the
        bike) that connects the main loom to the wires that go up to the handlebars
        and the connector the light socket. I am afraid there is no easy way to
        troubleshoot this.

        Start by removing the left side fairing panel and measuring the voltage at
        the relays. The three relays (high beam, low beam, and load relief) are held
        to the nose piece by a single screw. The two four-pole relays are for the
        headlights. If you grasp the relay, you will fill it click as you rock the
        high beam low beam switch. If you don't feel it click, it isn't working.
        Chances are, it isn't. Now it becomes a question of following the circuit to
        see where the open connection is. In my case, I had to take off the right
        side fairing to locate a bad connection at the connector that goes to/from
        the instrument panel.

        If you email me directly (mailto:bizen@...) I'll be glad to help you
        troubleshoot it, and if you really get stuck, or want to speed things up,
        give me a call. I'm in Oregon, so call accordingly. 503-569-3825. That's my
        cell phone.

        Good luck!

        Bud Izen
        '99 Platinum 900
        (with working high and low beams)
      • Dee Wagoner
        Thanks for your help regarding the relays. I have replaced both relays, neither were making any noise. Top dip beam relay is now making clicking noise,
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 7, 2004
          Thanks for your help regarding the relays. I have replaced both relays, neither were making any noise. Top dip beam relay is now making clicking noise, however, high beam realy still is making no noise. No change in problem. Do you have any clues on where I should go from there?
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bud Izen
          To: Triumph Trophy Group
          Cc: sdwagoner@...
          Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:59 PM
          Subject: [TriumphTrophy] High Beam Problems


          If you have been following the posts recently, you'll recognize the
          unfortunate voice of experience here.

          First, there are two relays involved (with the engine off, the load relief
          relay plays no part here). When you turn on the ignition switch, and rock
          the dimmer switch from low to high, you should hear TWO relays clicking, not
          just one. If the high beam light works, that means your handlebar wiring is
          ok, and you have an open somewhere between the connector (left side of the
          bike) that connects the main loom to the wires that go up to the handlebars
          and the connector the light socket. I am afraid there is no easy way to
          troubleshoot this.

          Start by removing the left side fairing panel and measuring the voltage at
          the relays. The three relays (high beam, low beam, and load relief) are held
          to the nose piece by a single screw. The two four-pole relays are for the
          headlights. If you grasp the relay, you will fill it click as you rock the
          high beam low beam switch. If you don't feel it click, it isn't working.
          Chances are, it isn't. Now it becomes a question of following the circuit to
          see where the open connection is. In my case, I had to take off the right
          side fairing to locate a bad connection at the connector that goes to/from
          the instrument panel.

          If you email me directly (mailto:bizen@...) I'll be glad to help you
          troubleshoot it, and if you really get stuck, or want to speed things up,
          give me a call. I'm in Oregon, so call accordingly. 503-569-3825. That's my
          cell phone.

          Good luck!

          Bud Izen
          '99 Platinum 900
          (with working high and low beams)




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bud Izen
          Do you have a voltmeter and a service manual? Blindly changing components can get expensive, and is not always conclusive. Sounds like what happened to me (bad
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 7, 2004
            Do you have a voltmeter and a service manual? Blindly changing
            components can get expensive, and is not always conclusive. Sounds
            like what happened to me (bad connection) may be what you are
            plagued by. If you have a '99 or newer bike, then our wiring is the
            same. I lost track of your symptoms. With the bike off, does either
            the high or the low beam work? Have you measured the voltage at the
            headlights? If there is voltage at the light socket but the light
            doesn't light, then you either have a bad ground, or a bad light or
            lights. I'd have to ask you a zillion questions to pinpoint it
            further.

            I'd be glad to help you if you want to give me a call (I sent you my
            phone numbers in a private email), or via online chat, whichever is
            easier. Let me know. In the meantime, here are some additional hints.

            The reason a relay is used is to be able to route high current
            connections directly from the source (battery) to the device without
            having to use a switch. Switching high current usually results in
            premature switch failure, plus having to route high current wire
            further than necessary. High current wire must be thicker as well.
            So a relay is used. When the relay is energized, a relatively low
            current is passed through the relay coil. This causes the high
            current connection to be either closed if it was normally open, or
            opened, if it was normally closed. The "click" you hear when the
            relay is energized is the closing or opening of the high current
            connection. If there is no "click" that generally means that the
            voltage is not reaching the relay coil, the relay coil is open, or
            the relay coil circuit contains an open somewhere (bad ground or
            earth, broken wire or connector etc).

            In my case, the low beams were working but the high beams were not.
            I took a look at the schematic and determined which relay connection
            was which, then took a jumper lead and put 12v on it. The high beam
            then lit up. This meant my problem was an OPEN in the low current
            relay energizing circuit, verifying the symptom I had observed. The
            blue/white wire at the connector from the handlebars had 12v on it,
            but the blue/white wire at the relay did not have 12v on it, so the
            OPEN had to be somewhere between the handlebar connector and the
            relay.

            The schematic showed two connectors. I had identified the connector
            with a lot of connections on it as the one that served the
            handlebars, located on the left side of the bike. There was a
            connector with fewer connections listed on the schematic, but I
            could not tell from the schematic where the connector was located.

            The relays were on the left, so I had already removed the left side
            fairing. I could see the wiring loom go under the headlights, routed
            towards the right side of the bike. There was nothing for it but to
            remove the right side fairing. Once I did so, I saw the smaller
            connector under the dashboard. I checked for voltage at the
            blue/white wire. In the process of checking, the high beams went on.
            The wires in the connector were not making a good connection. Once
            the connectors were pressed together firmly, the high beams worked
            fine (and still do).

            So, the process is - check the voltage at both relays. The wiring
            pattern is the same, so if you hear one relay "clicking" find the
            terminal that alternates from 12v to 0v when you toggle the high/low
            beam switch on the handlebars. That corresponding terminal should
            also alternate from 12v to 0v on the other relay. If it does not,
            then you have an OPEN and must trace the voltage through the
            connectors until you find where it disappears. It is possible that
            the open could be on the ground or earth side as well as on the 12V
            or "hot" side. Try not to jump to conclusions, but use your voltage
            tester, and write down what the voltage was at each connection to
            avoid relying on memory which can become confused.

            A word of caution. It is possible that the open can be caused by a
            frayed or pinched wire within the wiring loom itself, but it is
            doubtful that this would happen without an external physical
            indicator such as frayed or broken loom insulation. Since another
            member had found that a wire tie had caused such damage, I removed
            both wire ties on my loom, but saw no evidence of damage. Once I was
            done with the repair, I replaced both ties to keep the wires secure.

            If you do see evidence of damage, don't ignore it - you may have
            found your problem, but don't be too eager to unwrap the insulation
            on the loom. Check the connections first, because that way you will
            know which sectin of the loom contains your problem.

            If you are still having trouble, let me know. I guaranty between the
            two of us we can fix and find your problem.

            Bud


            --- In TriumphTrophy@yahoogroups.com, "Dee Wagoner" <sdwagoner@t...>
            wrote:
            > Thanks for your help regarding the relays. I have replaced both
            relays, neither were making any noise. Top dip beam relay is now
            making clicking noise, however, high beam realy still is making no
            noise. No change in problem. Do you have any clues on where I
            should go from there?
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