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Re: [TrinityQuestion] Re: no one knows the day and the hour except... @Greg

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  • applsaucefactory@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/31/2011 11:06:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, george_smith92530@yahoo.com writes: Amen Paul. When trinity gets proven wrong the
    Message 1 of 711 , Jan 1, 2012
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      In a message dated 12/31/2011 11:06:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, george_smith92530@... writes:
      Amen Paul.   When trinity gets proven wrong the response is always,  "It is a mystery,  you just have to accept it by faith."  Then the discussion is over.
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      yes, there is great mystery about YHVH God- us puny mortals can't even begin to fathom God. however, YHVH God has chosen to reveal to us certain things about Himself. those things are written down in the scriptures. so those things are no longer a mystery. they have been revealed or uncovered to us. God did not write secrets and mysteries into His scriptures, on the contrary the scriptures is where He told us the truth in plain simple language that we can understand. if there is anything that a person says is a mystery, we can know for sure that whatever that is, it is something they have created that is not actually found in the plain simple words of God.
       
       1 cor 2:4 And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
       6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written, "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, And which have not entered the heart of man, All that God has prepared for those who love Him." 10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
       14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
       
       For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; 3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4 And by referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; 10 in order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.
       
       col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body (which is the church) in filling up that which is lacking in Christ's afflictions. 25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations; but has now been manifested to His saints, 27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 And we proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29 And for this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me. 
       
      - the apple   
    • faithmichaels31
      Maybe they did or maybe they didn t. But that s how revelation works. There were plenty of things that Jesus was teaching and but that were not understood by
      Message 711 of 711 , Jan 18, 2012
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        Maybe they did or maybe they didn't. But that's how revelation works. There were plenty of things that Jesus was teaching and but that were not understood by his hearers. Not until Jesus rose from the dead did much of anything he was teaching make any sense. As Scripture is fulfilled, more and more becomes clear. That's how it works. But in this particular case, I am sure His hearers understood the difference between the One Tru God and other so-called gods/idols. The culture of that time was pagan.

        Faith

        --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
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        > I understand you do because of your bias. However to a Greek reading/hearing those words in the first century from Paul they did NOT have the meaning you see. Your view is a later one developed to support a later teaching, called the Trinity.
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        > Well then i think that the lower case g and/or l in God and Lord is appropriate. it determines the difference between the One True God--there is only One--and other gods, those being idols and man-made gods that are not real.
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        > --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@> wrote:
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        > > The oi ending is a plural meaning G/gods.
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        > > Remember that language has no theology so it can be God and Gods. In fact in Greek it would be GOD  GODS.
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        > > This is confusing and I don't see what you are saying. When I look at my Greek to English Interlinear...I find that in 1 Corinthians 8 where the word God is used, it looks like this: "Aeog" (Greek leters) but where the word god is used, looks more like this: "Aeoi" (Greek letters.) That's the best I can do since my computer does not have greek letters. But clearly, the translators knew the differences--hence the capital G and the lower case g.
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        > > --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@> wrote:
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        > > > In Deut it is " ´ÃÆ'©lÃÆ'¶hÃÆ'ª hÃÆ'¤Â´ÃÆ'©lÃÆ'¶hÃÆ'®m ":
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        > > > Of "G/gods" noun common masculine plural absolute
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        > > > of God: noun common masculine plural  
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        > > > Strong's: 0430 ~yhil{a/ 'elohiym {el-o-heem'}
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        > > > Meaning:  1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2)
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        > > > For both uses.
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        > > > Greek: theos ton theon
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        > > > Theon is: qew/n noun genitive masculine plural common
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        > > > Thoes: noun nominative masculine singular common
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        > > > Singular and plural of the same word. Same meaning.
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        > > > [UBS] theos m God ( kata. qeo,n according to God's will, godly; after the likeness of God Eph 4.24); god; f goddess (Ac 19.37) 
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        > > > [UBS] theon m God ( kata. qeo,n according to God's will, godly; after the likeness of God Eph 4.24); god; f goddess (Ac 19.37) 
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        > > > --- On Tue, 1/10/12, faithmichaels31 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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        > > > From: faithmichaels31 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
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        > > > Subject: [TrinityQuestion] I'll wait for verification
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        > > > To: TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com
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        > > > Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 5:34 PM
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        > > > ...or I'll dig out my own Strong's Concordance and look it up myself...because I am certain that the translators capitalize God and Lord for a reason....the lower case representing a much lesser god like an idol.
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        > > > --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@> wrote:
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        > > > > Hi Faith,
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        > > > > It is the same word. I am at work now so I do not have access to my Hebrew and Greek material.
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        > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
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        > > > > Well since all of you here seem to be learned in the Greek and Hebrew, why don't you see if the same word is used for God...and of gods. Did the translators capitalize the first God and not the last god in that passage even though the same word for God was used each time?
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        > > > > --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@> wrote:
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        > > > > > Hi Faith,
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        > > > > > I remember the words of a past President.
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        > > > > > he said "Trust but verify". That is what I do. In Hebrew the sentence would look like this to a Jew including in the 1st century/Jesus day..
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        > > > > > "THE GOD OF GODS AND THE LORD OF LORDS".
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        > > > > > They would not see it as you do in English versions.
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        > > > > > I have no problem with the translation "The God of gods" as long as the word "god" is not taken away from it's meaning of those who God is superior to.
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        > > > > > You NEED the word G/od to only apply to God and no one else except non living things. Unfortunately the word "God" (In English) in Deut 10:17 ONLY applies to the Father, eliminating the Son as well.
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        > > > > > Since Elohim was used of Moses, it includes living beings as God was not making Moses an idol to Pharaoh, rather his living spokesman. Moses was called "Elohim/God" before the Exodus.God's spokesmen are also called "G/god" and they are not idols. Jesus is called "G/god" because he is God's spokesman as well, as he himself said.
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > > >
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        > >
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        > > > >
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        > >
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        > > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > > >
        >
        > >
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        > > > >
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        > >
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        > > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
        >
        > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
        >
        > >
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        > > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        >
        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        >
        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
        >
        > > > > > But you have to trust that the translators used such punctuation and upper and lower case letters based on the words and meanings from which they were translating. They understand the Hebrew and Greek as scholars. The question is, which translations do you trust? That is a very inportant decision as it can effect what you wind up believing. I trust what is by and large known to be good translations and they can be found online through Gateway. If they aren't listed there or found in good Christian bookstores, there is probably a good reason.
        >
        > >
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        > > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > >
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        > > >
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        > >
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        > > > > > Faith
        >
        > >
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        > > >
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        > > > >
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        > >
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        > >
        >
        > > > > > --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard <anotherpaul2001@> wrote:
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        > > > > > > Hi Faith,
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        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Do you understand that what you justÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  aid is gobbly gook?
        >
        > >
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        > >
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        > > > > > > The large or small "k" has nothing to do with i,t as that is an English practice. In Greek it was all upper case so NO distinction as you suggest.
        >
        > >
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        > > >
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        > > > > > > A Greek reader of those words in the 1st century would never see what you are saying as such would be meaningless to him.
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        > >
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        > > > > > > Kelton, can you help her?
        >
        > >
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        > > > > > > Paul
        >
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        > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
        >
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        > > > > > > It's not the same title... little k means little king...king of earthly kings. But Jesus is King of Kings..big K...King over all of God's creation....
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        > > > > > > --- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, applsaucefactory@ wrote:
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        > > > > > > > In a message dated 1/6/2012 3:20:58 P.M. Central Standard Time,
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        > > > > > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
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        > > > > > > > Then we meet back in Revelation 1, verse 17 "When I saw him, I fell at his
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        > > > > > > > feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not
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        > > > > > > > be afraid. I am the First and the Last."
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        > > > > > > > Ask is this also Jehovah? Their answer will undoubtedly be yes., that is
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        > > > > > > > until you show them verse 18: "I am the Living One; I was dead, and now
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        > > > > > > > look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."
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        > > > > > > > There is no escaping this, apple. You can't have it both ways. The Alpha
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        > > > > > > > and Omega is either Jehovah God or none of what Scripture reveals can be
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        > > > > > > > taken seriously because there would be far too many contradictions.
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        > > > > > > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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        > > > > > > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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        > > > > > > > and if two people can't have the same title without being the same person,
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        > > > > > > > then it is inescapable that you have to admit that nebuchadnezzar with the
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        > > > > > > > title "king of kings" is YHVH God also because that is a title that YHVH
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        > > > > > > > God has. but of course the answer is that two people can have the same title
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        > > > > > > > and not be the same person. there is no escaping from this- you can't have
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        > > > > > > > it both ways. but of course, you won't accept this, and you will continue
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        > > > > > > > to believe a lie- so it is just a practice of futility to respond to you,
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        > > > > > > > and a casting of pearls before swine- your mind is made up and you don't want
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        > > > > > > > to be confused with the facts.
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        > > > > > > > - the apple
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