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Re: Why do dirt tracks have more cars than asphalt tracks?

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  • dale.terry@rocketmail.com
    Many years ago, the dirt late model racers and the mods got together, and pretty much standardized the rules. You can run your dirt car at just about any
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
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      Many years ago, the dirt late model racers and the mods got together, and pretty much standardized the rules. You can run your dirt car at just about any track. The Lucas and WoO traveling series can go to any track, and add 20-40 area racers to their shows. This leads to big car counts, lots of butts in seats, and big purses.

      On the other hand, if there are 40 asphalt traveling series, there are 40 sets of rules - effectively banning locals from traveling shows. In the southeast, NASCAR bought the great All Pro Series, ran it into the ground, and shut it down. At the same time, the asphalt Southern All Stars shut down. To fill this void, at least seven series tried to move in - and all seven have incompatible rules, and low car counts, and low purses, and few butts who pay. One of the series has shut down after two shows. Two others - ASA South and PASS South - are unlikely to exist in 2010.

      The healthiest of the remaining - ASA Southeast Tour - has flexible rules, accommodating assorted motors with weight penalties and spoiler hts.

      Unfortunately, until the asphalt powers that be - if they exist - get together on common rules, asphalt car counts, crowds, and purses will suffer.

      --- In TrackChasers@yahoogroups.com, "indybear37" <indybear37@...> wrote:
      >
      > From what I have seen here in Indiana if you are a race car driver if you build a UMP Modified you can race that modified at several different UMP sanctioned dirt tracks across the midwest. I wish the asphalt tracks would all unite with there rules packages and having the same car rules more cars would be eligible to race at that track! I think this is why dirt tracks have more cars than the asphalt ones. Do you guys agree that Bob Memmer did an awesome thing for dirt tracks. Now we need a guy like him to come along and organize the asphalt tracks because two tracks here in Indiana are struggling car ount wise AND fan count wise. What do u guys think? Tom Botos, Indianapolis,IN
      >
    • RPMGORDY@aol.com
      Greetings from your breadman, Just thought I d throw in my 2 cents worth. Or is that $2 worth in these inflated times. One of my favorite ideas from years
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
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        Greetings from your breadman,

        Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. Or is that $2 worth in
        these inflated times. One of my favorite ideas from years gone by was the
        big race co-sanctioned by ASA, Allpro and ACT. For a few years they managed
        to come up with a rules compromise that allowed cars from all 3 groups to be
        competitive together. None of those groups exist as they were then, with
        Allpro being totally gone. ACT has cut way back on their traveling and
        races. ASA has been in a state of flux trying to find the right combination to
        keep itself afloat. There was a time pavement racing was more technologically
        advanced while being more expensive to go fast. That's no longer true as
        dirt racers are at least equal in that way. I believe the endless practice
        pavement racers seem to need just adds to their expense way beyond what they
        gain in return. They can no longer afford to search for that elusive tenth
        of a second. You'd think the tire bills alone would drum some sense in
        their heads. All those extra laps just wear cars and components out. You get
        far fewer races between motor rebuilds just because of all those wasted laps
        run.

        As for the mods, Keith Knack started the IMCA deal with his
        controversial engine claim rule to keep costs down. I still think a claim is more
        efficient in keeping cost down than crate motors are. Too many racers are
        already cheating on the crate deal. It's what racers do. They best automotive
        minds in the world, i.e. racers, can work their way around any rule. With a
        claim you spend whatever you want knowing you could lose all your work and
        ingenuity for $500. The problem is racers just don't want to be told how to
        do anything. There's no reason Memmer couldn't have gone the same route.
        Trouble is, had he not given in to the racers wishes not to have a claim,
        UMP probably never would've taken hold. I have no hope the current regime
        will add anything positive to the sanction. There never should have been a UMP
        or WISSOTA, as the IMCA rules were the right ones. Even IMCA has slipped
        since Knack passed away. Both WISSOTA and IMCA now have B-mods that are what
        the A-mods used to be. Had the sanctions not given in to the racers
        demands to spend more money than necessary they never would have evolved into a
        class that's no longer as affordable as it was. I remember talking to Knack
        during that first winter in Florida when the class debuted on dirt and
        pavement tracks. The initial rules were so good the cars were equally good on
        both surfaces. Even the tires were the same. Now you need different cars for
        each surface to be competitive.

        As for why there are more dirt tracks, I believe the chance for
        multiple grooves is always greater on dirt, hence, there is often better racing.
        While ill prepared dirt tracks do often lead to single groove racing, too
        many paved tracks have that built into them. There are exceptions.
        Irwindale, Slinger, Kalamazoo and Thunder Road come to mind. Most paved tracks
        require a truly superior car to pass, and superior cars are expensive. Our own
        Brian Hickey does engine work for local New England teams and our former
        moderator, Andy Ritter, and his dad both race on dirt and dislike the crate
        idea. Hopefully, both of them will way in. Anyone else?

        Gordy
        **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
        (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Allan Brown
        Gordy, That was great explanation of the pavement late model situation. I ll add one more. Asphalt late models went downhill when ASA listened to the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 6, 2009
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          Gordy,

          That was great explanation of the pavement late model situation. I'll add one more.

          Asphalt late models went downhill when ASA listened to the automotive companies, who were willing to sponsor the series, but wanted the cars to look more like production autos.

          A new car had to be developed, but when it did, it essentially eliminated the local drivers from participation. Before when ASA came into a track the locals would run with them, and sometimes were very competitive.

          Dirt track racing was smart enough to allow the cars to remain somewhat the same as weekly tracks. A local can still run with the USMTS, or in areas where they have 410 Sprints, they can run with the WoO or All Stars.

          Allan

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        • Bruce.A.Spencer@hitchcock.org
          ... Before when ASA came into a track the locals would run with them, and sometimes were very competitive. ... Allen, Same around here as most tracks follow
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 7, 2009
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            --- You wrote:
            Before when ASA came into a track the locals would run with them, and sometimes were very competitive.
            --- end of quote ---





            Allen,

            Same around here as most tracks follow the ACT late model rules. When ACT runs at White Mt., the track considers it their late model feature event with a fair part of the field made up of Saturday night regulars.

            Thanks,
            Bruce
          • dale.terry@rocketmail.com
            Here s another thought - money and tires. The typical asphalt series around the south will have a practice Friday night, practice Sat. morning, and more
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 13, 2009
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              Here's another thought - money and tires.

              The typical asphalt series around the south will have a practice Friday night, practice Sat. morning, and more practice Sat. afternoon - and then a 100 lap show Sat. night.

              And often the racers are wanting more practice.

              If you want to be a leader, you've got to have some new tires for practice and start the race on new tires. Practice is running up the tire bill for asphalt race teams.

              On the other hand, the traveling dirt series arrives Sat. afternoon, gets three hot laps, two qualifying laps, and a 30 or 50 lap feature (and maybe a heat race or consi if you're not a top 15 qualifier.

              There's no practice, and you can be competitive on used tires.

              It's a deadly combo: big asphalt tire bills, and small purses. Minimal dirt tire bills, and bigger purses.
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