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Ransomville Figure 8

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  • Paul Brauer
    Last night while walking in the pits at Ransomville I was pleased to learn that there was going to be a figure 8 race. Immediately the new track lightbulb
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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      Last night while walking in the pits at Ransomville I was pleased to
      learn that there was going to be a figure 8 race. Immediately
      the "new track" lightbulb went off!

      As you may know, Ransomville has an inner oval that I believe is a
      kart track...which shares the front stretch w/ the big track. Well
      the "Figure 8" consisted of starting the (5 enduro-style) cars on the
      back stretch of the big track. The cars raced thru turns 3&4, to the
      front stretch, where they dropped on to the inner oval, made a lap
      around it, and then back on to the big track, thru 1&2, etc. They
      probably ran 10 laps like this. Seemed more like a "Figure Q" to me!

      My question is: What is a countable track? The Figure "Q"?...The
      inner oval?...Both?...Neither?

      Paul
    • Will White
      Paul, Thanks for explaining the new Ransomville track layout to the group. The Ransomville figure eight , as they call it, is actually a double-0 and
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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        Paul,


        Thanks for explaining the new Ransomville track layout to the group.

        The Ransomville "figure eight", as they call it, is actually a
        "double-0" and therefore falls under the "multiple oval" area of the
        TrackChaser rules. For our purposes, a figure 8 is a track with an
        intersection where the cars change direction at some point. In a
        double-0 (or "flagpole") race they continue to turn in the same
        direction (left or right) all the way around the course.

        The rule is pretty vague, and I believe it should be kept that way
        because the tracks can come up with so many possible future set-ups that
        we couldn't think of them all in advance. However, I think it will help
        if I try to give everyone an idea of how I will rule in these
        situations. To date, double-0 tracks have mainly consisted of a
        permanent outer/inner oval combination, where 2 existing tracks are used
        to former the course. In this case, I am ruling that anyone who has
        already counted either the outer or inner oval can count the double-0 as
        the oval they don't already have. As the rule states, no one can count a
        third track in addition to the 2 ovals. If you don't already have either
        of the 2 ovals, then you can count the double-0 as one of them (but not
        both).

        According to the rule, we cannot count a double-0 "in addition to the
        track or tracks that comprise it". My interpretation of this is that if
        one of the ovals that makes up the course is not an actual active track
        then you can't count the double-0 as a second track, only as a first
        track. This also applies to any flagpole race, since there is only one
        real track used in a flagpole race.

        Ransomville used a permanent, active kart track as the inner oval
        portion of their double-0. My ruling is that both tracks have to be
        active as regular ovals for motor racing, but they don't have to
        necessarily hold countable racing as regular ovals. The countable oval
        would take precedence over the noncountable oval in counting it as a
        "first" track. Thus, at Ransomville, if you had no previous tracks and
        only saw the double-0, you could count it as the outer oval. If you had
        no previous tracks and saw both the double-0 and regular (outer) oval
        racing then you can count two tracks (outer oval and inner oval). If it
        was possible to already have 2 ovals at Ransomville (did they ever have
        countable racing on the inner oval?) then you couldn't count the
        double-0 as a new track.

        This case reminds me that I never did add the "Track Rulings" page to
        the trackchaser.com web site. I realize it can be frustrating to go to
        one of these events, find that what they called a "figure 8" really
        wasn't, and go away not knowing if you saw anything that counts as a new
        track. Hopefully by posting some of my rulings and rules interpretations
        on the web site I'll be able to reduce the confusion somewhat.

        Will White
        TrackChaser Commissioner



        Paul Brauer wrote:
        > Last night while walking in the pits at Ransomville I was pleased to
        > learn that there was going to be a figure 8 race. Immediately
        > the "new track" lightbulb went off!
        >
        > As you may know, Ransomville has an inner oval that I believe is a
        > kart track...which shares the front stretch w/ the big track. Well
        > the "Figure 8" consisted of starting the (5 enduro-style) cars on the
        > back stretch of the big track. The cars raced thru turns 3&4, to the
        > front stretch, where they dropped on to the inner oval, made a lap
        > around it, and then back on to the big track, thru 1&2, etc. They
        > probably ran 10 laps like this. Seemed more like a "Figure Q" to me!
        >
        > My question is: What is a countable track? The Figure "Q"?...The
        > inner oval?...Both?...Neither?
      • Paul Brauer
        Thanks Will, So if I understand you correctly... -I have already seen many races at Ransomville. -I had never seen anything on the inner oval and I really
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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          Thanks Will,
          So if I understand you correctly...

          -I have already seen many races at Ransomville.
          -I had never seen anything on the inner oval and I really don't know
          if countable racing has ever occured on it.
          -So by what you said in the next to last paragraph, I could count
          the inner oval?

          I'm just an amatuer in track chasing, as many years of working on a
          race team kept me at the same 3 tracks weekly, but I'm more in it as
          a friendly competition w/ some friends....but we do try to use your
          rules as a guideline.

          Thanks for the great site and track information!

          Paul

          --- In TrackChasers@yahoogroups.com, Will White <trackchaser@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Paul,
          >
          >
          > Thanks for explaining the new Ransomville track layout to the
          group.
          >
          > The Ransomville "figure eight", as they call it, is actually a
          > "double-0" and therefore falls under the "multiple oval" area of
          the
          > TrackChaser rules. For our purposes, a figure 8 is a track with an
          > intersection where the cars change direction at some point. In a
          > double-0 (or "flagpole") race they continue to turn in the same
          > direction (left or right) all the way around the course.
          >
          > The rule is pretty vague, and I believe it should be kept that way
          > because the tracks can come up with so many possible future set-
          ups that
          > we couldn't think of them all in advance. However, I think it will
          help
          > if I try to give everyone an idea of how I will rule in these
          > situations. To date, double-0 tracks have mainly consisted of a
          > permanent outer/inner oval combination, where 2 existing tracks
          are used
          > to former the course. In this case, I am ruling that anyone who
          has
          > already counted either the outer or inner oval can count the
          double-0 as
          > the oval they don't already have. As the rule states, no one can
          count a
          > third track in addition to the 2 ovals. If you don't already have
          either
          > of the 2 ovals, then you can count the double-0 as one of them
          (but not
          > both).
          >
          > According to the rule, we cannot count a double-0 "in addition to
          the
          > track or tracks that comprise it". My interpretation of this is
          that if
          > one of the ovals that makes up the course is not an actual active
          track
          > then you can't count the double-0 as a second track, only as a
          first
          > track. This also applies to any flagpole race, since there is only
          one
          > real track used in a flagpole race.
          >
          > Ransomville used a permanent, active kart track as the inner oval
          > portion of their double-0. My ruling is that both tracks have to
          be
          > active as regular ovals for motor racing, but they don't have to
          > necessarily hold countable racing as regular ovals. The countable
          oval
          > would take precedence over the noncountable oval in counting it as
          a
          > "first" track. Thus, at Ransomville, if you had no previous tracks
          and
          > only saw the double-0, you could count it as the outer oval. If
          you had
          > no previous tracks and saw both the double-0 and regular (outer)
          oval
          > racing then you can count two tracks (outer oval and inner oval).
          If it
          > was possible to already have 2 ovals at Ransomville (did they ever
          have
          > countable racing on the inner oval?) then you couldn't count the
          > double-0 as a new track.
          >
          > This case reminds me that I never did add the "Track Rulings" page
          to
          > the trackchaser.com web site. I realize it can be frustrating to
          go to
          > one of these events, find that what they called a "figure 8"
          really
          > wasn't, and go away not knowing if you saw anything that counts as
          a new
          > track. Hopefully by posting some of my rulings and rules
          interpretations
          > on the web site I'll be able to reduce the confusion somewhat.
          >
          > Will White
          > TrackChaser Commissioner
          >
          >
          >
          > Paul Brauer wrote:
          > > Last night while walking in the pits at Ransomville I was
          pleased to
          > > learn that there was going to be a figure 8 race. Immediately
          > > the "new track" lightbulb went off!
          > >
          > > As you may know, Ransomville has an inner oval that I believe is
          a
          > > kart track...which shares the front stretch w/ the big track.
          Well
          > > the "Figure 8" consisted of starting the (5 enduro-style) cars
          on the
          > > back stretch of the big track. The cars raced thru turns 3&4,
          to the
          > > front stretch, where they dropped on to the inner oval, made a
          lap
          > > around it, and then back on to the big track, thru 1&2, etc.
          They
          > > probably ran 10 laps like this. Seemed more like a "Figure Q"
          to me!
          > >
          > > My question is: What is a countable track? The
          Figure "Q"?...The
          > > inner oval?...Both?...Neither?
          >
        • Will White
          Paul, Yes, you understood me about counting the inner oval. This was a weird situation that needed to be clarified. Which race team were you associated with?
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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            Paul,

            Yes, you understood me about counting the inner oval. This was a weird
            situation that needed to be clarified.

            Which race team were you associated with?

            Glad you enjoy the web site.

            Will White


            Paul Brauer wrote:
            > Thanks Will,
            > So if I understand you correctly...
            >
            > -I have already seen many races at Ransomville.
            > -I had never seen anything on the inner oval and I really don't know
            > if countable racing has ever occured on it.
            > -So by what you said in the next to last paragraph, I could count
            > the inner oval?
            >
            > I'm just an amatuer in track chasing, as many years of working on a
            > race team kept me at the same 3 tracks weekly, but I'm more in it as
            > a friendly competition w/ some friends....but we do try to use your
            > rules as a guideline.
            >
            > Thanks for the great site and track information!
            >
            > Paul
            >
            > --- In TrackChasers@yahoogroups.com, Will White <trackchaser@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            >> Paul,
            >>
            >>
            >> Thanks for explaining the new Ransomville track layout to the
            >>
            > group.
            >
            >> The Ransomville "figure eight", as they call it, is actually a
            >> "double-0" and therefore falls under the "multiple oval" area of
            >>
            > the
            >
            >> TrackChaser rules. For our purposes, a figure 8 is a track with an
            >> intersection where the cars change direction at some point. In a
            >> double-0 (or "flagpole") race they continue to turn in the same
            >> direction (left or right) all the way around the course.
            >>
            >> The rule is pretty vague, and I believe it should be kept that way
            >> because the tracks can come up with so many possible future set-
            >>
            > ups that
            >
            >> we couldn't think of them all in advance. However, I think it will
            >>
            > help
            >
            >> if I try to give everyone an idea of how I will rule in these
            >> situations. To date, double-0 tracks have mainly consisted of a
            >> permanent outer/inner oval combination, where 2 existing tracks
            >>
            > are used
            >
            >> to former the course. In this case, I am ruling that anyone who
            >>
            > has
            >
            >> already counted either the outer or inner oval can count the
            >>
            > double-0 as
            >
            >> the oval they don't already have. As the rule states, no one can
            >>
            > count a
            >
            >> third track in addition to the 2 ovals. If you don't already have
            >>
            > either
            >
            >> of the 2 ovals, then you can count the double-0 as one of them
            >>
            > (but not
            >
            >> both).
            >>
            >> According to the rule, we cannot count a double-0 "in addition to
            >>
            > the
            >
            >> track or tracks that comprise it". My interpretation of this is
            >>
            > that if
            >
            >> one of the ovals that makes up the course is not an actual active
            >>
            > track
            >
            >> then you can't count the double-0 as a second track, only as a
            >>
            > first
            >
            >> track. This also applies to any flagpole race, since there is only
            >>
            > one
            >
            >> real track used in a flagpole race.
            >>
            >> Ransomville used a permanent, active kart track as the inner oval
            >> portion of their double-0. My ruling is that both tracks have to
            >>
            > be
            >
            >> active as regular ovals for motor racing, but they don't have to
            >> necessarily hold countable racing as regular ovals. The countable
            >>
            > oval
            >
            >> would take precedence over the noncountable oval in counting it as
            >>
            > a
            >
            >> "first" track. Thus, at Ransomville, if you had no previous tracks
            >>
            > and
            >
            >> only saw the double-0, you could count it as the outer oval. If
            >>
            > you had
            >
            >> no previous tracks and saw both the double-0 and regular (outer)
            >>
            > oval
            >
            >> racing then you can count two tracks (outer oval and inner oval).
            >>
            > If it
            >
            >> was possible to already have 2 ovals at Ransomville (did they ever
            >>
            > have
            >
            >> countable racing on the inner oval?) then you couldn't count the
            >> double-0 as a new track.
            >>
            >> This case reminds me that I never did add the "Track Rulings" page
            >>
            > to
            >
            >> the trackchaser.com web site. I realize it can be frustrating to
            >>
            > go to
            >
            >> one of these events, find that what they called a "figure 8"
            >>
            > really
            >
            >> wasn't, and go away not knowing if you saw anything that counts as
            >>
            > a new
            >
            >> track. Hopefully by posting some of my rulings and rules
            >>
            > interpretations
            >
            >> on the web site I'll be able to reduce the confusion somewhat.
          • Paul Brauer
            Will, I ve worked w/ a few teams over the years, starting w/ a family team in the late 80 & early 90s. When the family hung it up I started traveling w/ Todd
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 5, 2006
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              Will,
              I've worked w/ a few teams over the years, starting w/ a family team
              in the late 80 & early 90s. When the family hung it up I started
              traveling w/ Todd Burley's 358 mod team. Around 2000 I moved a bit
              too far out of the area to stay w/ Todd's team, but I was at
              Ransomville on Friday to see him get his 1st track title there.
              Getting a new track was a total bonus!

              Thanks again for the clarification and the site!

              Paul
              --- In TrackChasers@yahoogroups.com, Will White <trackchaser@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Paul,
              >
              > Yes, you understood me about counting the inner oval. This was a
              weird
              > situation that needed to be clarified.
              >
              > Which race team were you associated with?
              >
              > Glad you enjoy the web site.
              >
              > Will White
              >
              >
              > Paul Brauer wrote:
              > > Thanks Will,
              > > So if I understand you correctly...
              > >
              > > -I have already seen many races at Ransomville.
              > > -I had never seen anything on the inner oval and I really don't
              know
              > > if countable racing has ever occured on it.
              > > -So by what you said in the next to last paragraph, I could
              count
              > > the inner oval?
              > >
              > > I'm just an amatuer in track chasing, as many years of working
              on a
              > > race team kept me at the same 3 tracks weekly, but I'm more in
              it as
              > > a friendly competition w/ some friends....but we do try to use
              your
              > > rules as a guideline.
              > >
              > > Thanks for the great site and track information!
              > >
              > > Paul
              > >
              > > --- In TrackChasers@yahoogroups.com, Will White <trackchaser@>
              > > wrote:
              > >
              > >> Paul,
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Thanks for explaining the new Ransomville track layout to the
              > >>
              > > group.
              > >
              > >> The Ransomville "figure eight", as they call it, is actually a
              > >> "double-0" and therefore falls under the "multiple oval" area
              of
              > >>
              > > the
              > >
              > >> TrackChaser rules. For our purposes, a figure 8 is a track with
              an
              > >> intersection where the cars change direction at some point. In
              a
              > >> double-0 (or "flagpole") race they continue to turn in the same
              > >> direction (left or right) all the way around the course.
              > >>
              > >> The rule is pretty vague, and I believe it should be kept that
              way
              > >> because the tracks can come up with so many possible future set-
              > >>
              > > ups that
              > >
              > >> we couldn't think of them all in advance. However, I think it
              will
              > >>
              > > help
              > >
              > >> if I try to give everyone an idea of how I will rule in these
              > >> situations. To date, double-0 tracks have mainly consisted of a
              > >> permanent outer/inner oval combination, where 2 existing tracks
              > >>
              > > are used
              > >
              > >> to former the course. In this case, I am ruling that anyone who
              > >>
              > > has
              > >
              > >> already counted either the outer or inner oval can count the
              > >>
              > > double-0 as
              > >
              > >> the oval they don't already have. As the rule states, no one
              can
              > >>
              > > count a
              > >
              > >> third track in addition to the 2 ovals. If you don't already
              have
              > >>
              > > either
              > >
              > >> of the 2 ovals, then you can count the double-0 as one of them
              > >>
              > > (but not
              > >
              > >> both).
              > >>
              > >> According to the rule, we cannot count a double-0 "in addition
              to
              > >>
              > > the
              > >
              > >> track or tracks that comprise it". My interpretation of this is
              > >>
              > > that if
              > >
              > >> one of the ovals that makes up the course is not an actual
              active
              > >>
              > > track
              > >
              > >> then you can't count the double-0 as a second track, only as a
              > >>
              > > first
              > >
              > >> track. This also applies to any flagpole race, since there is
              only
              > >>
              > > one
              > >
              > >> real track used in a flagpole race.
              > >>
              > >> Ransomville used a permanent, active kart track as the inner
              oval
              > >> portion of their double-0. My ruling is that both tracks have
              to
              > >>
              > > be
              > >
              > >> active as regular ovals for motor racing, but they don't have
              to
              > >> necessarily hold countable racing as regular ovals. The
              countable
              > >>
              > > oval
              > >
              > >> would take precedence over the noncountable oval in counting it
              as
              > >>
              > > a
              > >
              > >> "first" track. Thus, at Ransomville, if you had no previous
              tracks
              > >>
              > > and
              > >
              > >> only saw the double-0, you could count it as the outer oval. If
              > >>
              > > you had
              > >
              > >> no previous tracks and saw both the double-0 and regular
              (outer)
              > >>
              > > oval
              > >
              > >> racing then you can count two tracks (outer oval and inner
              oval).
              > >>
              > > If it
              > >
              > >> was possible to already have 2 ovals at Ransomville (did they
              ever
              > >>
              > > have
              > >
              > >> countable racing on the inner oval?) then you couldn't count
              the
              > >> double-0 as a new track.
              > >>
              > >> This case reminds me that I never did add the "Track Rulings"
              page
              > >>
              > > to
              > >
              > >> the trackchaser.com web site. I realize it can be frustrating
              to
              > >>
              > > go to
              > >
              > >> one of these events, find that what they called a "figure 8"
              > >>
              > > really
              > >
              > >> wasn't, and go away not knowing if you saw anything that counts
              as
              > >>
              > > a new
              > >
              > >> track. Hopefully by posting some of my rulings and rules
              > >>
              > > interpretations
              > >
              > >> on the web site I'll be able to reduce the confusion somewhat.
              >
            • Will White
              According to Mike Knappenberger there will be a countable Bandolero hundred lapper at Orange County Raceway (the small track) in Rougemont, NC, on Dec. 16th.
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 30, 2006
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                According to Mike Knappenberger there will be a countable Bandolero hundred
                lapper at Orange County Raceway (the small track) in Rougemont, NC, on Dec. 16th.

                Will White
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