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Re: [TopHive] Hello

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  • Leonard and/or Anitia Barton
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 9, 2003
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      on 1/10/04 2:51 PM, Sasha at mrkflux@... wrote:

      > Dear Jorge,
      >
      ...
      >
      > Your story about your varroa experiences is highly interesting to me.It is
      > very depressing to me that I cant keep bees without chemicals or at least
      > that is what every body is telling me here.But if bees in Grenada can survive
      > varroa then also local bees here can survive.Here people tend to just throw
      > chemicals for any reason on the bees,it is no surprise that bees have endured
      > in nature so long time but under human influence in past hundred years are
      > becoming endangered specie.
      >
      >
      > Personal regards,
      >
      > Sasha
      >
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:40:48 -0400
      > From: "Jorge Murillo Yepes" <murillos@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: anybody here?
      >
      > Dear Sasha,
      >
      > Many thanks for such a nice and prompt response!
      >
      > In a way the Caribbean is, as you call it, a "paradise" for bees, as it is
      > considered everywhere else in the tropical world by people who, like you,
      > live in temperate climates with four distinct seasons. But we have our share
      > of problems regarding weather, as well, in the rainy season. But do not
      > forget that Mother Nature in her wisdom created the most important
      > melliferous bees in your neck of the woods, and not in the tropics!!! She
      > must have had a good reason for that.
      >
      > What you describe in terms of your TBH seems to me rather similar to the
      > Kenyan type, which works very well indeed although, as we humans finally seem
      > to be getting to understand, factors such as shape, location, colour,
      > materials, etc., are of no importance whatsoever to the bees themselves.
      >
      > The Varroa mite was detected in Grenada for the first time in 1994 and in the
      > beginning it wrought havoc among both kept as well as wild bee colonies,
      > especially insofar as the viruses vectored by the arthropod are concerned.
      > After a few years, however, the surviving population seemed to have adjusted
      > itself to it and the initial disastrous effects of the attack did not occur
      > anymore, especially in hives living in the low, drier areas. We did some
      > control utilizing organic essential oils with
      >
      > excellent results, but after fifth or sixth year no one bothers too much about
      > Varroa anymore, eventhough it is present throughout the Island. No
      > Africanized bees have entered Grenada up to now, but they do exist in some
      > Islands of the region.
      >
      > For many years I was involved in commercial production of primary hive
      > products, as well as in teaching beekeeping in Grenada and other Caribbean
      > territories, but since about 15 years ago I decided to explore the
      > possibilities offered by the addition of value to honey, wax, propolis and
      > royal jelly and ended up trying to make a living producing several lines of
      > beauty products (soaps, creams, lotions, shampoos, lip balms, massage
      > creams, etc), ornamentals (candles) and medicinal products (for humans and
      > animals). At the same time I started getting deeply involved in apitherapy
      > and for the practice of which I have five hives. By providing technical
      > assistance to several local beekeepers I get the primary products required
      > for my cottage industry, without having to break my back too much.
      >
      > I am in the process of finalizing an Apitherapy Internet Course conducted by
      > Dr. Stefan Stangaciu from Rumania, and have the honor to have as fellow
      > student a Lady from Serbia, to whom I mentioned your arrival as a new member
      > in the TBH chat group.
      >
      > And, Sasha, I did not think that you lived in Siberia at all. By the same
      > token I hope that you do not think that I live in Spain!!!!
      >
      > Best personal regards,
      >
      > Jorge
      >
      >
      >
    • Leonard and/or Anitia Barton
      Greetings Jorge, Sasha, Ping, Steve and others: Notes from California - Central inland coastal valley climate (Walnut Creek, 50 km east of San Francisco).
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 9, 2003
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        Greetings Jorge, Sasha, Ping, Steve and others:

        Notes from California - Central inland coastal valley climate (Walnut Creek,
        50 km east of San Francisco). These are just some random notes about my
        experience but may offer hope for others who want to keep bees without
        chemicals and who are concerned about varroa. This month is the completion
        of my third year of beekeeping.

        About 10 years ago varroa arrived in our area. Swarm calls to our bee club
        dropped from three hundred a month during the spring to ten to twenty. Over
        the past three years swarm calls have greatly increased - now over a hundred
        per month. We think that this recovery of the feral population is due to
        natural selective breeding for varroa resistance.

        My bees are obtained from these wild swarms. As Africanized honey bees are
        approaching, this may not be possible in the next few years.

        To some extent it may be that the wild swarms are breeding with improved
        commercial bees, but there is not the kind of heavy comercial beekeeping as
        seen in agricultural areas to the east (California's great Central Valley) -
        our area is a mix of suburban residential and wildland open space reserves.

        I have been able to keep several colonies (I presently have four) without
        medications of any kind (including patties or oils). Nosema is endemic but
        my bees seem productive without controlling it. My first colony was a ferral
        Yugo/Italian mix. This was kept in a closed bottom hive (similar to
        Satterfield's) and suffered from varroa after about three month's residence.
        I observed an average of one varroa per drone brood - some none, some three
        or four - said to be a heavy infestation. Drone excision controled this
        sucessfully, combined with the development of the vent bottom 30 degree
        CalKenyan. These bees were not agressive when worked but would lurk in the
        vegetable plot and sting my wife in the early morning! Because of this I
        requeened the next year with a Russian queen, which ultimately proved
        unsucessful in our climate, as the hive gradually declined and she shut down
        laying in our late autumn and winter - the time of our second best honey
        flow. She finally absconded after the last inspection after reducing the
        colony to only two bar's worth. (I found out that this shut down is a
        "thrifty" characteristic of Russians as an adaptation to long and severe
        subarctic winters - completely unecessary in our mild climate.)

        I have not had to excise drone to control varroa this year - I attribute
        this to the improved wild stock and improved hives. There also seems to be
        far fewer drones produced than was the case in my first colony, even though
        one of my queens was captured from a swarm in my own yard from a colony that
        had been obtained from a patio speaker - this is at least her second
        swarming, yet she is very productive and her worker bees are quite gentle.
        The hive she left behind is also doing well, and unlike her Italian looking
        bees, these are all dark Yugoslavian types - probably because my neighbor
        (abut 100 meters away) keeps ten Langsroths of commercialy bred Yugos. I
        obtained 7 kilos of honey from three bars from this hive in August - this
        after a very poor spring due to cool wet weather.

        With these latest colonies and hives I do not see the crawling or deformed
        bees that were present with the first colony. (Crawling bees are suspected
        to be a symptom of tracheal mites - I would sometimes count two or three
        dozen.)


        *** New bar designs ***

        The latest bar designs have proven sucessful in limited test use. I will be
        using complete sets of each next spring for swarm introduction to see how
        they work in full use.

        The "simple bar", as suggested from reading the web, is for fabrication
        without power tools. It uses waxed string on simple wood slats. See
        "http://www.ccdemo.info/GardenBees/SimpleBar/SimpleBar.html".

        The "webless bar", my own invention, is very easy to make with simple power
        tools - it requires neither fabrication nor any difficult or dangerous power
        tool cuts. For a picture, this is similar to the bar on the left in the
        picture
        "http://www.ccdemo.info/GardenBees/CK5/04Blank&FinBarEnd320Wx240H.jpg", but
        the cuts are angled at 20 degrees to form a keystone profile (wide end down
        when in the hive) to make it even easier for the bees to hang.

        *** New hive design ***

        My latest hive design (a 30 degree vented Kenyan, similar to CK5) uses wood
        board construction in an attempt to use materials easily obtained
        commercialy in the U.S.A. The material cost for a complete hive body with
        legs and bars should be less than $35.00, plus whatever is spent on a roof.
        I will be publishing this in a few months.

        Best wishes for success to all.

        Leonard.


        on 1/10/04 2:51 PM, Sasha at mrkflux@... wrote:

        > Dear Jorge,
        >
        > It is a pleasure to comunicate with such knowledgeable and polite person like
        > you.
        > I am sorry ,i didnt want to insult your inteligence by pointing your possible
        > mistake,it happens to people all the time.It first seemed to me that you have
        > been in Serbia,so you know where my part of country is - then this was too
        > imposible to me and I get the imppresion that you have made a small mistake.
        > Also please exuse me for my bad english.
        >
        > Your story about your varroa experiences is highly interesting to me.It is
        > very depressing to me that I cant keep bees without chemicals or at least
        > that is what every body is telling me here.But if bees in Grenada can survive
        > varroa then also local bees here can survive.Here people tend to just throw
        > chemicals for any reason on the bees,it is no surprise that bees have endured
        > in nature so long time but under human influence in past hundred years are
        > becoming endangered specie.
        > How much loses from varroa did you have and what esential oils did you use,or
        > can you give me some advice in this direction ?How to help the bees to
        > survive?Maybe the best is to leave them to decide how to fight varroa?
        >
        > I am also deeple interested in your experience of beekeping both regular and
        > your experience in value added bee products.If you consider this off topic on
        > this group maybe we could contact off the list.
        >
        > Personal regards,
        >
        > Sasha
        >
        > Message: 4
        > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:40:48 -0400
        > From: "Jorge Murillo Yepes" <murillos@...>
        > Subject: Re: Re: anybody here?
        >
        > Dear Sasha,
        >
        > Many thanks for such a nice and prompt response!
        >
        > In a way the Caribbean is, as you call it, a "paradise" for bees, as it is
        > considered everywhere else in the tropical world by people who, like you,
        > live in temperate climates with four distinct seasons. But we have our share
        > of problems regarding weather, as well, in the rainy season. But do not
        > forget that Mother Nature in her wisdom created the most important
        > melliferous bees in your neck of the woods, and not in the tropics!!! She
        > must have had a good reason for that.
        >
        > What you describe in terms of your TBH seems to me rather similar to the
        > Kenyan type, which works very well indeed although, as we humans finally seem
        > to be getting to understand, factors such as shape, location, colour,
        > materials, etc., are of no importance whatsoever to the bees themselves.
        >
        > The Varroa mite was detected in Grenada for the first time in 1994 and in the
        > beginning it wrought havoc among both kept as well as wild bee colonies,
        > especially insofar as the viruses vectored by the arthropod are concerned.
        > After a few years, however, the surviving population seemed to have adjusted
        > itself to it and the initial disastrous effects of the attack did not occur
        > anymore, especially in hives living in the low, drier areas. We did some
        > control utilizing organic essential oils with
        >
        > excellent results, but after fifth or sixth year no one bothers too much about
        > Varroa anymore, eventhough it is present throughout the Island. No
        > Africanized bees have entered Grenada up to now, but they do exist in some
        > Islands of the region.
        >
        > For many years I was involved in commercial production of primary hive
        > products, as well as in teaching beekeeping in Grenada and other Caribbean
        > territories, but since about 15 years ago I decided to explore the
        > possibilities offered by the addition of value to honey, wax, propolis and
        > royal jelly and ended up trying to make a living producing several lines of
        > beauty products (soaps, creams, lotions, shampoos, lip balms, massage
        > creams, etc), ornamentals (candles) and medicinal products (for humans and
        > animals). At the same time I started getting deeply involved in apitherapy
        > and for the practice of which I have five hives. By providing technical
        > assistance to several local beekeepers I get the primary products required
        > for my cottage industry, without having to break my back too much.
        >
        > I am in the process of finalizing an Apitherapy Internet Course conducted by
        > Dr. Stefan Stangaciu from Rumania, and have the honor to have as fellow
        > student a Lady from Serbia, to whom I mentioned your arrival as a new member
        > in the TBH chat group.
        >
        > And, Sasha, I did not think that you lived in Siberia at all. By the same
        > token I hope that you do not think that I live in Spain!!!!
        >
        > Best personal regards,
        >
        > Jorge
        >
        >
        >
      • grizzly bearnolds
        ... I haven t tried a top bar hive yet, my specialty if you want to call it that, is to keep the hives in a so called beehouse, an open sided shed, instead
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 9, 2003
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          >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003
          >From: "Jorge Murillo Yepes" <murillos@...>
          >Subject: Re: Re: anybody here?

          I haven't tried a top bar hive yet, my "specialty" if you want to call it
          that, is to keep the hives in a so called beehouse, an open sided shed,
          instead of having the hives outside in all kinds of weather.

          >After a few years, however, the surviving population seemed to have
          >adjusted itself to it and the initial disastrous effects of the attack did
          >not occur anymore. /// ... but after fifth or sixth year no one bothers
          >too much about Varroa anymore, even though it is present throughout the Island.

          So your bees just live with varroa, deal with them in their own ways, and
          beekeepers do nothing anymore? Tell more.

          >At the same time I started getting deeply involved in apitherapy. // I am
          >in the process of finalizing an Apitherapy Internet Course conducted by
          >Dr. Stefan Stangaciu from Rumania.

          I have tried to learn a bit more about apitherapy, but am not progressing
          much on my own. Am too simple minded in learning, don't have too much time,
          and to learn something new is pretty tough on me as I seem to be thinking
          too weird. I have no doubts that apitherapy works, but how to get onto
          that. I am horrified to get stung as a sting usually is pretty unpleasant
          to me. I wish to know about apitherapy but can't seem to make a good start
          on it on my own.


          Ma. ~ North Pacific, West Coast, British Columbia, CANADA




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sasha
          Dear Jorge, It is a pleasure to comunicate with such knowledgeable and polite person like you. I am sorry ,i didnt want to insult your inteligence by pointing
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 10, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Jorge,

            It is a pleasure to comunicate with such knowledgeable and polite person like
            you.
            I am sorry ,i didnt want to insult your inteligence by pointing your possible
            mistake,it happens to people all the time.It first seemed to me that you have
            been in Serbia,so you know where my part of country is - then this was too
            imposible to me and I get the imppresion that you have made a small mistake.
            Also please exuse me for my bad english.

            Your story about your varroa experiences is highly interesting to me.It is
            very depressing to me that I cant keep bees without chemicals or at least
            that is what every body is telling me here.But if bees in Grenada can survive
            varroa then also local bees here can survive.Here people tend to just throw
            chemicals for any reason on the bees,it is no surprise that bees have endured
            in nature so long time but under human influence in past hundred years are
            becoming endangered specie.
            How much loses from varroa did you have and what esential oils did you use,or
            can you give me some advice in this direction ?How to help the bees to
            survive?Maybe the best is to leave them to decide how to fight varroa?

            I am also deeple interested in your experience of beekeping both regular and
            your experience in value added bee products.If you consider this off topic on
            this group maybe we could contact off the list.

            Personal regards,

            Sasha

            Message: 4
            Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:40:48 -0400
            From: "Jorge Murillo Yepes" <murillos@...>
            Subject: Re: Re: anybody here?

            Dear Sasha,

            Many thanks for such a nice and prompt response!

            In a way the Caribbean is, as you call it, a "paradise" for bees, as it is
            considered everywhere else in the tropical world by people who, like you,
            live in temperate climates with four distinct seasons. But we have our share
            of problems regarding weather, as well, in the rainy season. But do not
            forget that Mother Nature in her wisdom created the most important
            melliferous bees in your neck of the woods, and not in the tropics!!! She
            must have had a good reason for that.

            What you describe in terms of your TBH seems to me rather similar to the
            Kenyan type, which works very well indeed although, as we humans finally seem
            to be getting to understand, factors such as shape, location, colour,
            materials, etc., are of no importance whatsoever to the bees themselves.

            The Varroa mite was detected in Grenada for the first time in 1994 and in the
            beginning it wrought havoc among both kept as well as wild bee colonies,
            especially insofar as the viruses vectored by the arthropod are concerned.
            After a few years, however, the surviving population seemed to have adjusted
            itself to it and the initial disastrous effects of the attack did not occur
            anymore, especially in hives living in the low, drier areas. We did some
            control utilizing organic essential oils with

            excellent results, but after fifth or sixth year no one bothers too much about
            Varroa anymore, eventhough it is present throughout the Island. No
            Africanized bees have entered Grenada up to now, but they do exist in some
            Islands of the region.

            For many years I was involved in commercial production of primary hive
            products, as well as in teaching beekeeping in Grenada and other Caribbean
            territories, but since about 15 years ago I decided to explore the
            possibilities offered by the addition of value to honey, wax, propolis and
            royal jelly and ended up trying to make a living producing several lines of
            beauty products (soaps, creams, lotions, shampoos, lip balms, massage
            creams, etc), ornamentals (candles) and medicinal products (for humans and
            animals). At the same time I started getting deeply involved in apitherapy
            and for the practice of which I have five hives. By providing technical
            assistance to several local beekeepers I get the primary products required
            for my cottage industry, without having to break my back too much.

            I am in the process of finalizing an Apitherapy Internet Course conducted by
            Dr. Stefan Stangaciu from Rumania, and have the honor to have as fellow
            student a Lady from Serbia, to whom I mentioned your arrival as a new member
            in the TBH chat group.

            And, Sasha, I did not think that you lived in Siberia at all. By the same
            token I hope that you do not think that I live in Spain!!!!

            Best personal regards,

            Jorge




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            this e-mail is sent from SuSe linux machine
          • Rondi
            Hello I m new to the group and to tophives. I have been tending bees for two years and currently have 10 langroth hives. I m from south east Kansas, the
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 1, 2004
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              Hello

              I'm new to the group and to tophives. I have been tending bees for two years and
              currently have 10 langroth hives. I'm from south east Kansas, the gateway of the
              Ozarks, in my upper thirties and married with kids.

              I'm wanting to tend my bees more naturally believing unnatural manmade changes
              such as large cell size, larger bees and the replacement of honey and pollen with
              sugar/corn syrup and soy protein cakes are causing most of our problems. I think the
              Kenyan topbar hives fit into natural beekeeping. It all reminds me much of the cattle
              industry. A steer can be raised on pasture, grass and forbes, or in a stockyard on
              grain and in tight quarters. In the stockyard they will grow faster on grain, but the
              high starch diet undermines their immune system and they will need much antibiotics
              and vitamins before they are harvested in 2 ro 3 years. If you raise them on grass
              without help it takes 3-4 years for them to reach harvest weights. If properly
              managed with an intensive grazing system especially with animals bred for grazing
              and in harmony with the areas natural breeding cycle you can take a year or more off
              that and have a higher quality product then either with little to no deworming and
              meds.

              My objective is to know this insect and what makes them buzz. I'm just beginning
              down this road really and hope to share with and learn from you all.

              Thanks,

              Rondi
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