Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW

Expand Messages
  • nicty95
    ... Dave, Don t get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep is your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural nest and store
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
      --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
      > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
      > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
      > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
      > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
      > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
      > That may be why some super them.
      > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
      > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
      > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
      > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
      > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
      > TBH's, "ZERO."
      > Dave
      >

      Dave,
      Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep is
      your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural nest
      and store everything around the brood making it impossible to harvest.
      This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that survive
      fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in environments
      will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being able
      to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
      behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
      square one!
      The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
      everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside a
      natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees you
      have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
      they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust the
      environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if thier
      cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage area
      behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
      corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that you
      have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
      should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
      sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
      Gary
      www.hirschbachapiary.com
    • Sarah Komar
      Gary, I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I really like it. How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive? Thanks,
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
        Gary,



        I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
        really like it.



        How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?



        Thanks,

        Sarah







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scot McPherson
        In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3 lbs and the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees. I like my
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
          In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3 lbs and
          the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees. I like my
          packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an edge over 3
          lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees because you
          will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be the upper
          limit of benefit for packages.

          And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural swarms are
          not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....


          Scot McPherson
          McPherson Family Farms
          Davenport, IA
        • nicty95
          ... In this country the packages are usually swarms you get from the other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can buy from a
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
            >
            > Gary,
            >
            >
            >
            > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
            > really like it.
            >
            >
            >
            > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Sarah
            >

            In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
            other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
            buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Sarah Komar
            Thanks for the responses. My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and starting in the spring with bees. I can t wait! Sarah ... From:
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
              Thanks for the responses.



              My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and starting in
              the spring with bees.



              I can't wait!



              Sarah



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of nicty95
              Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:50 PM
              To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [TopHive] Re: To Gary at Hirschbach Apriary



              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
              "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
              >
              > Gary,
              >
              >
              >
              > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
              > really like it.
              >
              >
              >
              > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Sarah
              >

              In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
              other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
              buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • nicty95
              ... lbs and ... I like my ... edge over 3 ... because you ... the upper ... swarms are ... If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn t a ten lb package
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                >
                > In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3
                lbs and
                > the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees.
                I like my
                > packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an
                edge over 3
                > lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees
                because you
                > will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be
                the upper
                > limit of benefit for packages.
                >
                > And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural
                swarms are
                > not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....
                >
                >
                > Scot McPherson
                > McPherson Family Farms
                > Davenport, IA
                >
                If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn't a ten lb package
                be! I would take the largest package I could get. The more bee
                installed the better a start they get all around more of a work
                force = a fast build up, at least that is my experience when shaking
                out bees in the spring! Next spring we are going to Romania to thin
                out an apairy, we will shake 50 packages and bring them back for
                TBH's we are building now. I am making the cages myself XL. These
                bees are Russians and have not been treated in years!
              • nicty95
                ... 3 ... bees. ... shaking ... thin ... nothing more than an artifical swarm.
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                  --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                  > <scot.mcpherson@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than
                  3
                  > lbs and
                  > > the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of
                  bees.
                  > I like my
                  > > packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an
                  > edge over 3
                  > > lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees
                  > because you
                  > > will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be
                  > the upper
                  > > limit of benefit for packages.
                  > >
                  > > And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural
                  > swarms are
                  > > not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Scot McPherson
                  > > McPherson Family Farms
                  > > Davenport, IA
                  > >
                  > If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn't a ten lb package
                  > be! I would take the largest package I could get. The more bee
                  > installed the better a start they get all around more of a work
                  > force = a fast build up, at least that is my experience when
                  shaking
                  > out bees in the spring! Next spring we are going to Romania to
                  thin
                  > out an apairy, we will shake 50 packages and bring them back for
                  > TBH's we are building now. I am making the cages myself XL. These
                  > bees are Russians and have not been treated in years! A package is
                  nothing more than an artifical swarm.
                  >
                • nicty95
                  ... starting in ... Behalf ... hive. I ... Good luck, remember watch your bees and let them guide you. They know what they want.
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks for the responses.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and
                    starting in
                    > the spring with bees.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I can't wait!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sarah
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf
                    > Of nicty95
                    > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:50 PM
                    > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [TopHive] Re: To Gary at Hirschbach Apriary
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                    > "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Gary,
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar
                    hive. I
                    > > really like it.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > >
                    > > Sarah
                    > >
                    >
                    > In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                    > other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                    > buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    Good luck, remember watch your bees and let them guide you. They
                    know what they want.
                  • David Croteau
                    Hi Gary The bars 15 (13 working) & about 10 deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style Checked all hives yesterday. Didn t disturb brood nests. Found lots of empty
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                      Hi Gary'
                      The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style
                      Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                      Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs, out of
                      lc hives, full honey super on top.
                      Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                      It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                      much nectar.
                      They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                      Will they get enough, good question.
                      Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise new
                      bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                      With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                      The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no all
                      honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                      Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                      winter.
                      But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                      Dave


                      --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                      also.
                      > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                      > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                      > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                      > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now
                      I
                      > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                      > > That may be why some super them.
                      > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                      > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                      > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                      > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                      Aug
                      > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                      > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                      > > Dave
                      > >
                      >
                      > Dave,
                      > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep
                      is
                      > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                      nest
                      > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                      harvest.
                      > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                      survive
                      > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                      environments
                      > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being
                      able
                      > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                      > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                      > square one!
                      > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                      > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside
                      a
                      > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees
                      you
                      > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                      > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust
                      the
                      > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                      thier
                      > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                      area
                      > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                      > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that
                      you
                      > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                      > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                      > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                      > Gary
                      > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                      >
                    • Jim & Rebecca Payne
                      What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood they raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back and also adjusting
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                        What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood they
                        raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back and also
                        adjusting with what they have in storage.
                        Jim Payne


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                        To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                        Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW


                        > Hi Gary'
                        > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style
                        > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                        > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs, out of
                        > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                        > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                        > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                        > much nectar.
                        > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                        > Will they get enough, good question.
                        > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise new
                        > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                        > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                        > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no all
                        > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                        > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                        > winter.
                        > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                        > Dave
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                        > also.
                        > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                        > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                        > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                        > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now
                        > I
                        > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                        > > > That may be why some super them.
                        > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                        > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                        > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                        > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                        > Aug
                        > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                        > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                        > > > Dave
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Dave,
                        > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep
                        > is
                        > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                        > nest
                        > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                        > harvest.
                        > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                        > survive
                        > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                        > environments
                        > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being
                        > able
                        > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                        > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                        > > square one!
                        > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                        > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside
                        > a
                        > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees
                        > you
                        > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                        > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust
                        > the
                        > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                        > thier
                        > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                        > area
                        > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                        > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that
                        > you
                        > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                        > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                        > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                        > > Gary
                        > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/07
                        8:59 AM
                        >
                        >
                      • David Croteau
                        Carnoliian and that s what I m saying, they didn t cut back on brood rearing & used up most of storage,. But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious .
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                          Carnoliian and that's what I'm saying, they didn't cut back on brood
                          rearing & used up most of storage,.
                          But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious . You don't suppose
                          those bees know what there doing do you?
                          Dave


                          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Rebecca Payne"
                          <jimandrebeccan@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood
                          they
                          > raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back
                          and also
                          > adjusting with what they have in storage.
                          > Jim Payne
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                          > To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                          > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                          >
                          >
                          > > Hi Gary'
                          > > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya
                          style
                          > > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                          > > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs,
                          out of
                          > > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                          > > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                          > > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                          > > much nectar.
                          > > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                          > > Will they get enough, good question.
                          > > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise
                          new
                          > > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                          > > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                          > > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no
                          all
                          > > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                          > > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                          > > winter.
                          > > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                          > > Dave
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                          > > also.
                          > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                          > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                          > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                          > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                          now
                          > > I
                          > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                          > > > > That may be why some super them.
                          > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                          Langstroth
                          > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                          > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                          > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul
                          15th &
                          > > Aug
                          > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                          > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                          > > > > Dave
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Dave,
                          > > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how
                          deep
                          > > is
                          > > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                          > > nest
                          > > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                          > > harvest.
                          > > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                          > > survive
                          > > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                          > > environments
                          > > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them
                          being
                          > > able
                          > > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                          > > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                          > > > square one!
                          > > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                          > > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs
                          inside
                          > > a
                          > > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The
                          bees
                          > > you
                          > > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will
                          bet
                          > > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is
                          adjust
                          > > the
                          > > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                          > > thier
                          > > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                          > > area
                          > > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                          > > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem
                          that
                          > > you
                          > > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather
                          he
                          > > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what
                          his
                          > > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24
                          bars!
                          > > > Gary
                          > > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date:
                          9/14/07
                          > 8:59 AM
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Gary
                          ... brood ... suppose ... brood ... Kenya ... in ... no ... ... use ... but ... how ... natural ... same ... to ... will ... if ... storage
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
                            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Carnoliian and that's what I'm saying, they didn't cut back on
                            brood
                            > rearing & used up most of storage,.
                            > But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious . You don't
                            suppose
                            > those bees know what there doing do you?
                            > Dave
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Rebecca Payne"
                            > <jimandrebeccan@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the
                            brood
                            > they
                            > > raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back
                            > and also
                            > > adjusting with what they have in storage.
                            > > Jim Payne
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                            > > To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                            > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > Hi Gary'
                            > > > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars.
                            Kenya
                            > style
                            > > > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                            > > > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs,
                            > out of
                            > > > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                            > > > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                            > > > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring
                            in
                            > > > much nectar.
                            > > > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                            > > > Will they get enough, good question.
                            > > > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise
                            > new
                            > > > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                            > > > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                            > > > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood,
                            no
                            > all
                            > > > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                            > > > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                            > > > winter.
                            > > > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                            > > > Dave
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau"
                            <davidlcroteau@>
                            > > > > wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would
                            use
                            > > > also.
                            > > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                            > > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                            > > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                            > > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars,
                            but
                            > now
                            > > > I
                            > > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                            > > > > > That may be why some super them.
                            > > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                            > Langstroth
                            > > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                            > > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                            > > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul
                            > 15th &
                            > > > Aug
                            > > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                            > > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                            > > > > > Dave
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Dave,
                            > > > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and
                            how
                            > deep
                            > > > is
                            > > > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a
                            natural
                            > > > nest
                            > > > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                            > > > harvest.
                            > > > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                            > > > survive
                            > > > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                            > > > environments
                            > > > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them
                            > being
                            > > > able
                            > > > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the
                            same
                            > > > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back
                            to
                            > > > > square one!
                            > > > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                            > > > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs
                            > inside
                            > > > a
                            > > > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The
                            > bees
                            > > > you
                            > > > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I
                            will
                            > bet
                            > > > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is
                            > adjust
                            > > > the
                            > > > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do
                            if
                            > > > thier
                            > > > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a
                            storage
                            > > > area
                            > > > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                            > > > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem
                            > that
                            > > > you
                            > > > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and
                            weather
                            > he
                            > > > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess
                            what
                            > his
                            > > > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24
                            > bars!
                            > > > > Gary
                            > > > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > > > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release
                            Date:
                            > 9/14/07
                            > > 8:59 AM
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            Hi Dave,
                            Let me start by saying that the bees for sure know much more than we
                            do!
                            You have 13 X 10 inch volume at 35 bars long and 17 bars in use.
                            Another beek has 14 (probably 13 in use) X 9 inches deep with a total
                            of 24 bars all full with a brood nest and honey storage area. I have
                            23 X 16 on 12 bars! All are working like mad just at different times
                            depending on when the fall flow starts in your area. We are at the
                            height of it here right now. My bees get to fly between 10 am and 3
                            pm.
                            Without doing the math (which is really not necessary any way) I
                            think the 3 above listed volumes are pretty close, Differences in our
                            regions dictate timing of what the bees are doing.
                            If you want you can add feed but do not be surprised if they do not
                            take it when there is a flow on. Make sure if you do feed you keep it
                            fresh no old stuff left in the hive.
                            What I would do: I would watch them closely and look for the switch
                            in focus, I.E. If they are rearing a large amount of brood they may
                            have not changed focus to over wintering yet. You are looking for
                            evidence of brood nest cleaning most likely you will see them
                            carrying out larvae and debris. Next they will start to back fill the
                            brood nest with stores and you will see a lot of pollen coming in.
                            If your main concern is winter survival add some feed and watch
                            to insure they are taking it. FEED INSIDE the hive to avoid
                            attracting robbers and reduce the entrance by half for now.
                            If your main concern is self sustaining bees then do nothing and
                            hope for the best. Right now they look like they are on track with
                            others I have spoke with except for timing which is environmentally
                            controlled.
                            On another note it would be in your best interest to keep a record
                            of daily temps and what the bees are doing so you have something to
                            compare to next season. Seeing trends will help you identify the
                            environmental factors associated with the changes in colony focus.
                            Within a couple of season you will be able to predict things like
                            swarm intentions, if there are enough stores, colony health/needs,
                            etc. Without records you will continue to shoot into the dark and
                            guess what to do next.
                          • David Croteau
                            I m seeing evidence of nest cleaning, will not feed. Think they will winter OK. Let you know in Spring. My records are in calendars, (yearly reminders ) .
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
                              I'm seeing evidence of nest cleaning, will not feed.
                              Think they will winter OK.
                              Let you know in Spring.
                              My records are in calendars, (yearly reminders ) .
                              Thanks for your input very helpful .
                              Dave
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.