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Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW

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  • David Croteau
    8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh s SLOW is the word I would use also. There is absolutely no surplus honey. They ll have enough to over winter on I m sure. One
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 11, 2007
      8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
      There is absolutely no surplus honey.
      They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
      One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
      Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
      don't think it's a good idea, no production.
      That may be why some super them.
      Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
      hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
      Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
      I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
      5th, about 150 pounds each time.
      TBH's, "ZERO."
      Dave
    • David Croteau
      Hi Kristen 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh s SLOW is the word I would use also. There is absolutely no surplus honey. They ll have enough to over winter on I m
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 12, 2007
        Hi Kristen
        8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
        There is absolutely no surplus honey.
        They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
        One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
        Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
        don't think it's a good idea, no production.
        That may be why some super them.
        Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
        hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
        Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
        I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
        5th, about 150 pounds each time.
        TBH's, "ZERO."
        Dave



        --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@...> wrote:
        >
        > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.


        >
      • mo
        Hi Dave I think part of the problem is that the best flows are in the spring and if their not rocking then they have a harder time producing comb needed to
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 19, 2007
          Hi Dave

          I think part of the problem is that the best flows are in the spring
          and if their not rocking then they have a harder time producing comb
          needed to collect a surplus. If their building 5 pounds of wax its
          like a super of honey.

          The flows in Maine as you know are intense and erratic. Lets just say
          your hive is full of Brood and Honey/Pollens. Nothing coming in then a
          huge flow happens, they fill all the comb not occupied by brood
          quickly, then have to start producing comb fast to cope with the
          influx of new nectar. Unless its strong and has allot of young bees,
          it can't keep up and have no where to put it or just fill what new
          they can and plug up the broodnest.

          Do you know if any or all have swarmed?
          mo




          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Kristen
          > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
          > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
          > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
          > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
          > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
          > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
          > That may be why some super them.
          > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
          > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
          > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
          > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
          > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
          > TBH's, "ZERO."
          > Dave
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
          > >
          > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
          >
          >
          > >
          >
        • kmdaven
          Thanks David My two TBH s started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars. I think they will get through the winter. I ll see what they do next
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 20, 2007
            Thanks David
            My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars. I
            think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do next
            spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a Langstroth
            hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much faster.
            This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw any
            conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely be
            stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
            sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more. I
            read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
            (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think most
            likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I know a
            guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each year
            and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
            season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.

            Kristen



            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Kristen
            > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
            > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
            > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
            > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
            > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
            > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
            > That may be why some super them.
            > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
            > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
            > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
            > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
            > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
            > TBH's, "ZERO."
            > Dave
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
            > >
            > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
            >
            >
            > >
            >
          • bloomvillebee
            Kristin, When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars of honeycomb or mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 21, 2007
              Kristin,
              When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars of honeycomb or
              mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter stores for a TBH and
              welcome any insights. It still seems that most of the combs in my hives are being used for
              brood-rearing. But since I am trying not to mess with the brood area too much, I'm not
              sure if they're now storing honey in the brood combs or what.

              If anyone can weigh in on how to clearly assess whether winter stores are adequate
              without taking the whole brood nest apart, I'd love advice. I am located in Northern NY,
              where winters are pretty long, wet, and cold. Zone 4.
              Best,
              Gerry

              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks David
              > My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars. I
              > think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do next
              > spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a Langstroth
              > hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much faster.
              > This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw any
              > conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely be
              > stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
              > sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more. I
              > read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
              > (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think most
              > likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I know a
              > guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each year
              > and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
              > season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.
              >
              > Kristen
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Kristen
              > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
              > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
              > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
              > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
              > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
              > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
              > > That may be why some super them.
              > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
              > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
              > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
              > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
              > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
              > > TBH's, "ZERO."
              > > Dave
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • kmdaven
              Hi Gerry, If I am understanding correctly, as long as there are 12 drawn bars, you re OK. I m also a cold climate, zone 4, first frost by mid- september and no
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 21, 2007
                Hi Gerry,
                If I am understanding correctly, as long as there are 12 drawn bars,
                you're OK. I'm also a cold climate, zone 4, first frost by mid-
                september and no dandelion until April 15. If I understand what
                my "mentor" here is saying, as fall approaches, the bees make less
                brood and more space is used for honey storage. So that is 12 bars
                of "mixed" comb. I didn't mess around too much this time in the brood
                chamber either but it seemed like they were about 50/50 for brood
                comb and honey comb. We'll see how they do. I'm nervous. I wish I
                wasn't so close to the threshold given to me, but then again, we've
                got three full weeks left at least (maybe more) and there's SO much
                blooming, and our "monsoon" rains have stopped so the bees have dawn
                to dusk for foraging instead of just short periods in the morning
                before the storms come. I'm hopeful.

                Hopefully someone with more knowledge will weigh in on this. I'm a
                total newbie.

                Kristen

                --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "bloomvillebee" <zychskyfarm@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Kristin,
                > When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars
                of honeycomb or
                > mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter
                stores for a TBH and
                > welcome any insights. It still seems that most of the combs in my
                hives are being used for
                > brood-rearing. But since I am trying not to mess with the brood
                area too much, I'm not
                > sure if they're now storing honey in the brood combs or what.
                >
                > If anyone can weigh in on how to clearly assess whether winter
                stores are adequate
                > without taking the whole brood nest apart, I'd love advice. I am
                located in Northern NY,
                > where winters are pretty long, wet, and cold. Zone 4.
                > Best,
                > Gerry
                >
                > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks David
                > > My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars.
                I
                > > think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do
                next
                > > spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a
                Langstroth
                > > hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much
                faster.
                > > This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw
                any
                > > conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely
                be
                > > stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
                > > sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more.
                I
                > > read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
                > > (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think
                most
                > > likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I
                know a
                > > guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each
                year
                > > and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
                > > season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.
                > >
                > > Kristen
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Kristen
                > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                also.
                > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                now I
                > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                > > > That may be why some super them.
                > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                Langstroth
                > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                Aug
                > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                > > > Dave
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • bloomvillebee
                Thanks for taking the time to reply, Kristin. It will be interesting to see if others weigh in. I am interested in as many takes on this as possible. I m a
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 22, 2007
                  Thanks for taking the time to reply, Kristin. It will be interesting to see if others weigh in. I
                  am interested in as many takes on this as possible. I'm a nervous bee-mom!!! :)
                  Gerry

                  --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Gerry,
                  > If I am understanding correctly, as long as there are 12 drawn bars,
                  > you're OK. I'm also a cold climate, zone 4, first frost by mid-
                  > september and no dandelion until April 15. If I understand what
                  > my "mentor" here is saying, as fall approaches, the bees make less
                  > brood and more space is used for honey storage. So that is 12 bars
                  > of "mixed" comb. I didn't mess around too much this time in the brood
                  > chamber either but it seemed like they were about 50/50 for brood
                  > comb and honey comb. We'll see how they do. I'm nervous. I wish I
                  > wasn't so close to the threshold given to me, but then again, we've
                  > got three full weeks left at least (maybe more) and there's SO much
                  > blooming, and our "monsoon" rains have stopped so the bees have dawn
                  > to dusk for foraging instead of just short periods in the morning
                  > before the storms come. I'm hopeful.
                  >
                  > Hopefully someone with more knowledge will weigh in on this. I'm a
                  > total newbie.
                  >
                  > Kristen
                  >
                  > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "bloomvillebee" <zychskyfarm@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Kristin,
                  > > When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars
                  > of honeycomb or
                  > > mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter
                  > stores for a TBH and
                  > > welcome any insights. It still seems that most of the combs in my
                  > hives are being used for
                  > > brood-rearing. But since I am trying not to mess with the brood
                  > area too much, I'm not
                  > > sure if they're now storing honey in the brood combs or what.
                  > >
                  > > If anyone can weigh in on how to clearly assess whether winter
                  > stores are adequate
                  > > without taking the whole brood nest apart, I'd love advice. I am
                  > located in Northern NY,
                  > > where winters are pretty long, wet, and cold. Zone 4.
                  > > Best,
                  > > Gerry
                  > >
                  > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks David
                  > > > My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars.
                  > I
                  > > > think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do
                  > next
                  > > > spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a
                  > Langstroth
                  > > > hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much
                  > faster.
                  > > > This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw
                  > any
                  > > > conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely
                  > be
                  > > > stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
                  > > > sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more.
                  > I
                  > > > read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
                  > > > (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think
                  > most
                  > > > likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I
                  > know a
                  > > > guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each
                  > year
                  > > > and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
                  > > > season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.
                  > > >
                  > > > Kristen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Kristen
                  > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                  > also.
                  > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                  > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                  > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                  > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                  > now I
                  > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                  > > > > That may be why some super them.
                  > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                  > Langstroth
                  > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                  > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                  > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                  > Aug
                  > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                  > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                  > > > > Dave
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • nicty95
                  ... Dave, Don t get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep is your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural nest and store
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                    > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                    > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                    > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                    > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                    > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                    > That may be why some super them.
                    > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                    > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                    > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                    > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                    > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                    > TBH's, "ZERO."
                    > Dave
                    >

                    Dave,
                    Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep is
                    your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural nest
                    and store everything around the brood making it impossible to harvest.
                    This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that survive
                    fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in environments
                    will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being able
                    to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                    behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                    square one!
                    The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                    everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside a
                    natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees you
                    have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                    they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust the
                    environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if thier
                    cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage area
                    behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                    corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that you
                    have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                    should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                    sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                    Gary
                    www.hirschbachapiary.com
                  • Sarah Komar
                    Gary, I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I really like it. How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive? Thanks,
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
                      Gary,



                      I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
                      really like it.



                      How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?



                      Thanks,

                      Sarah







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scot McPherson
                      In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3 lbs and the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees. I like my
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
                        In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3 lbs and
                        the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees. I like my
                        packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an edge over 3
                        lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees because you
                        will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be the upper
                        limit of benefit for packages.

                        And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural swarms are
                        not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....


                        Scot McPherson
                        McPherson Family Farms
                        Davenport, IA
                      • nicty95
                        ... In this country the packages are usually swarms you get from the other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can buy from a
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Gary,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
                          > really like it.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Sarah
                          >

                          In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                          other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                          buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Sarah Komar
                          Thanks for the responses. My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and starting in the spring with bees. I can t wait! Sarah ... From:
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                            Thanks for the responses.



                            My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and starting in
                            the spring with bees.



                            I can't wait!



                            Sarah



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of nicty95
                            Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:50 PM
                            To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [TopHive] Re: To Gary at Hirschbach Apriary



                            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                            "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Gary,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
                            > really like it.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Sarah
                            >

                            In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                            other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                            buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • nicty95
                            ... lbs and ... I like my ... edge over 3 ... because you ... the upper ... swarms are ... If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn t a ten lb package
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                              <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3
                              lbs and
                              > the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees.
                              I like my
                              > packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an
                              edge over 3
                              > lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees
                              because you
                              > will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be
                              the upper
                              > limit of benefit for packages.
                              >
                              > And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural
                              swarms are
                              > not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....
                              >
                              >
                              > Scot McPherson
                              > McPherson Family Farms
                              > Davenport, IA
                              >
                              If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn't a ten lb package
                              be! I would take the largest package I could get. The more bee
                              installed the better a start they get all around more of a work
                              force = a fast build up, at least that is my experience when shaking
                              out bees in the spring! Next spring we are going to Romania to thin
                              out an apairy, we will shake 50 packages and bring them back for
                              TBH's we are building now. I am making the cages myself XL. These
                              bees are Russians and have not been treated in years!
                            • nicty95
                              ... 3 ... bees. ... shaking ... thin ... nothing more than an artifical swarm.
                              Message 14 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                                > <scot.mcpherson@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than
                                3
                                > lbs and
                                > > the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of
                                bees.
                                > I like my
                                > > packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an
                                > edge over 3
                                > > lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees
                                > because you
                                > > will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be
                                > the upper
                                > > limit of benefit for packages.
                                > >
                                > > And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural
                                > swarms are
                                > > not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Scot McPherson
                                > > McPherson Family Farms
                                > > Davenport, IA
                                > >
                                > If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn't a ten lb package
                                > be! I would take the largest package I could get. The more bee
                                > installed the better a start they get all around more of a work
                                > force = a fast build up, at least that is my experience when
                                shaking
                                > out bees in the spring! Next spring we are going to Romania to
                                thin
                                > out an apairy, we will shake 50 packages and bring them back for
                                > TBH's we are building now. I am making the cages myself XL. These
                                > bees are Russians and have not been treated in years! A package is
                                nothing more than an artifical swarm.
                                >
                              • nicty95
                                ... starting in ... Behalf ... hive. I ... Good luck, remember watch your bees and let them guide you. They know what they want.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                  --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the responses.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and
                                  starting in
                                  > the spring with bees.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I can't wait!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Sarah
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf
                                  > Of nicty95
                                  > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:50 PM
                                  > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [TopHive] Re: To Gary at Hirschbach Apriary
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                                  > "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Gary,
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar
                                  hive. I
                                  > > really like it.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks,
                                  > >
                                  > > Sarah
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                                  > other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                                  > buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  Good luck, remember watch your bees and let them guide you. They
                                  know what they want.
                                • David Croteau
                                  Hi Gary The bars 15 (13 working) & about 10 deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style Checked all hives yesterday. Didn t disturb brood nests. Found lots of empty
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                                    Hi Gary'
                                    The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style
                                    Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                    Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs, out of
                                    lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                    Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                    It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                                    much nectar.
                                    They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                    Will they get enough, good question.
                                    Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise new
                                    bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                    With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                    The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no all
                                    honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                    Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                    winter.
                                    But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                    Dave


                                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                    also.
                                    > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                    > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                    > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                    > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now
                                    I
                                    > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                    > > That may be why some super them.
                                    > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                    > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                    > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                    > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                                    Aug
                                    > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                    > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                    > > Dave
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > Dave,
                                    > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep
                                    is
                                    > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                                    nest
                                    > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                    harvest.
                                    > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                    survive
                                    > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                    environments
                                    > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being
                                    able
                                    > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                    > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                    > square one!
                                    > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                    > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside
                                    a
                                    > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees
                                    you
                                    > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                                    > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust
                                    the
                                    > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                                    thier
                                    > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                                    area
                                    > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                    > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that
                                    you
                                    > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                                    > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                                    > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                                    > Gary
                                    > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                    >
                                  • Jim & Rebecca Payne
                                    What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood they raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back and also adjusting
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                                      What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood they
                                      raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back and also
                                      adjusting with what they have in storage.
                                      Jim Payne


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                      To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                                      Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW


                                      > Hi Gary'
                                      > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style
                                      > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                      > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs, out of
                                      > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                      > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                      > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                                      > much nectar.
                                      > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                      > Will they get enough, good question.
                                      > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise new
                                      > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                      > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                      > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no all
                                      > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                      > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                      > winter.
                                      > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                      > Dave
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                      > also.
                                      > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                      > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                      > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                      > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now
                                      > I
                                      > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                      > > > That may be why some super them.
                                      > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                      > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                      > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                      > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                                      > Aug
                                      > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                      > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                      > > > Dave
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Dave,
                                      > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep
                                      > is
                                      > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                                      > nest
                                      > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                      > harvest.
                                      > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                      > survive
                                      > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                      > environments
                                      > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being
                                      > able
                                      > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                      > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                      > > square one!
                                      > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                      > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside
                                      > a
                                      > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees
                                      > you
                                      > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                                      > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust
                                      > the
                                      > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                                      > thier
                                      > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                                      > area
                                      > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                      > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that
                                      > you
                                      > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                                      > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                                      > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                                      > > Gary
                                      > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/07
                                      8:59 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • David Croteau
                                      Carnoliian and that s what I m saying, they didn t cut back on brood rearing & used up most of storage,. But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious .
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                                        Carnoliian and that's what I'm saying, they didn't cut back on brood
                                        rearing & used up most of storage,.
                                        But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious . You don't suppose
                                        those bees know what there doing do you?
                                        Dave


                                        --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Rebecca Payne"
                                        <jimandrebeccan@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood
                                        they
                                        > raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back
                                        and also
                                        > adjusting with what they have in storage.
                                        > Jim Payne
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                        > To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                                        > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Hi Gary'
                                        > > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya
                                        style
                                        > > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                        > > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs,
                                        out of
                                        > > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                        > > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                        > > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                                        > > much nectar.
                                        > > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                        > > Will they get enough, good question.
                                        > > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise
                                        new
                                        > > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                        > > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                        > > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no
                                        all
                                        > > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                        > > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                        > > winter.
                                        > > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                        > > Dave
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                        > > also.
                                        > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                        > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                        > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                        > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                                        now
                                        > > I
                                        > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                        > > > > That may be why some super them.
                                        > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                                        Langstroth
                                        > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                        > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                        > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul
                                        15th &
                                        > > Aug
                                        > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                        > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                        > > > > Dave
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Dave,
                                        > > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how
                                        deep
                                        > > is
                                        > > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                                        > > nest
                                        > > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                        > > harvest.
                                        > > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                        > > survive
                                        > > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                        > > environments
                                        > > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them
                                        being
                                        > > able
                                        > > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                        > > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                        > > > square one!
                                        > > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                        > > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs
                                        inside
                                        > > a
                                        > > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The
                                        bees
                                        > > you
                                        > > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will
                                        bet
                                        > > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is
                                        adjust
                                        > > the
                                        > > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                                        > > thier
                                        > > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                                        > > area
                                        > > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                        > > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem
                                        that
                                        > > you
                                        > > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather
                                        he
                                        > > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what
                                        his
                                        > > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24
                                        bars!
                                        > > > Gary
                                        > > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --
                                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                        > > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date:
                                        9/14/07
                                        > 8:59 AM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Gary
                                        ... brood ... suppose ... brood ... Kenya ... in ... no ... ... use ... but ... how ... natural ... same ... to ... will ... if ... storage
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
                                          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Carnoliian and that's what I'm saying, they didn't cut back on
                                          brood
                                          > rearing & used up most of storage,.
                                          > But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious . You don't
                                          suppose
                                          > those bees know what there doing do you?
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Rebecca Payne"
                                          > <jimandrebeccan@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the
                                          brood
                                          > they
                                          > > raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back
                                          > and also
                                          > > adjusting with what they have in storage.
                                          > > Jim Payne
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                          > > To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                                          > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > Hi Gary'
                                          > > > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars.
                                          Kenya
                                          > style
                                          > > > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                          > > > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs,
                                          > out of
                                          > > > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                          > > > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                          > > > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring
                                          in
                                          > > > much nectar.
                                          > > > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                          > > > Will they get enough, good question.
                                          > > > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise
                                          > new
                                          > > > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                          > > > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                          > > > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood,
                                          no
                                          > all
                                          > > > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                          > > > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                          > > > winter.
                                          > > > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                          > > > Dave
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau"
                                          <davidlcroteau@>
                                          > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would
                                          use
                                          > > > also.
                                          > > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                          > > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                          > > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                          > > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars,
                                          but
                                          > now
                                          > > > I
                                          > > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                          > > > > > That may be why some super them.
                                          > > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                                          > Langstroth
                                          > > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                          > > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                          > > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul
                                          > 15th &
                                          > > > Aug
                                          > > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                          > > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                          > > > > > Dave
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Dave,
                                          > > > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and
                                          how
                                          > deep
                                          > > > is
                                          > > > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a
                                          natural
                                          > > > nest
                                          > > > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                          > > > harvest.
                                          > > > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                          > > > survive
                                          > > > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                          > > > environments
                                          > > > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them
                                          > being
                                          > > > able
                                          > > > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the
                                          same
                                          > > > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back
                                          to
                                          > > > > square one!
                                          > > > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                          > > > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs
                                          > inside
                                          > > > a
                                          > > > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The
                                          > bees
                                          > > > you
                                          > > > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I
                                          will
                                          > bet
                                          > > > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is
                                          > adjust
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do
                                          if
                                          > > > thier
                                          > > > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a
                                          storage
                                          > > > area
                                          > > > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                          > > > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem
                                          > that
                                          > > > you
                                          > > > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and
                                          weather
                                          > he
                                          > > > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess
                                          what
                                          > his
                                          > > > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24
                                          > bars!
                                          > > > > Gary
                                          > > > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --
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                                          > > > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release
                                          Date:
                                          > 9/14/07
                                          > > 8:59 AM
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          Hi Dave,
                                          Let me start by saying that the bees for sure know much more than we
                                          do!
                                          You have 13 X 10 inch volume at 35 bars long and 17 bars in use.
                                          Another beek has 14 (probably 13 in use) X 9 inches deep with a total
                                          of 24 bars all full with a brood nest and honey storage area. I have
                                          23 X 16 on 12 bars! All are working like mad just at different times
                                          depending on when the fall flow starts in your area. We are at the
                                          height of it here right now. My bees get to fly between 10 am and 3
                                          pm.
                                          Without doing the math (which is really not necessary any way) I
                                          think the 3 above listed volumes are pretty close, Differences in our
                                          regions dictate timing of what the bees are doing.
                                          If you want you can add feed but do not be surprised if they do not
                                          take it when there is a flow on. Make sure if you do feed you keep it
                                          fresh no old stuff left in the hive.
                                          What I would do: I would watch them closely and look for the switch
                                          in focus, I.E. If they are rearing a large amount of brood they may
                                          have not changed focus to over wintering yet. You are looking for
                                          evidence of brood nest cleaning most likely you will see them
                                          carrying out larvae and debris. Next they will start to back fill the
                                          brood nest with stores and you will see a lot of pollen coming in.
                                          If your main concern is winter survival add some feed and watch
                                          to insure they are taking it. FEED INSIDE the hive to avoid
                                          attracting robbers and reduce the entrance by half for now.
                                          If your main concern is self sustaining bees then do nothing and
                                          hope for the best. Right now they look like they are on track with
                                          others I have spoke with except for timing which is environmentally
                                          controlled.
                                          On another note it would be in your best interest to keep a record
                                          of daily temps and what the bees are doing so you have something to
                                          compare to next season. Seeing trends will help you identify the
                                          environmental factors associated with the changes in colony focus.
                                          Within a couple of season you will be able to predict things like
                                          swarm intentions, if there are enough stores, colony health/needs,
                                          etc. Without records you will continue to shoot into the dark and
                                          guess what to do next.
                                        • David Croteau
                                          I m seeing evidence of nest cleaning, will not feed. Think they will winter OK. Let you know in Spring. My records are in calendars, (yearly reminders ) .
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
                                            I'm seeing evidence of nest cleaning, will not feed.
                                            Think they will winter OK.
                                            Let you know in Spring.
                                            My records are in calendars, (yearly reminders ) .
                                            Thanks for your input very helpful .
                                            Dave
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