Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW

Expand Messages
  • kmdaven
    HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs. foundationless... It seems I ll be best off sticking with the TBH in my situation. I admit, for
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 18, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
      foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH in
      my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
      anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are nicer
      than in my Langs (so far).

      But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
      installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in late
      May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand new
      to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all through
      june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top bar
      hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago, I
      was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I didn't
      put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight bars
      each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
      clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
      There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.

      We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over 85
      or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
      clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my bees
      aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone told me
      they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter. Right
      now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
      (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).

      Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just one
      but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very front
      (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
      little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of new
      comb?

      Your thoughts please??

      Kristen
    • Scot McPherson
      2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees that come out of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows. It takes lots of
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 19, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees that come out
        of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows. It takes
        lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.


        Scot McPherson
        McPherson Family Farms
        Davenport, IA
        -----Original Message-----
        From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        kmdaven
        Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
        To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW

        HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
        foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH in
        my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
        anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are nicer
        than in my Langs (so far).

        But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
        installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in late
        May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand new
        to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all through
        june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top bar
        hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago, I
        was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I didn't
        put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight bars
        each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
        clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
        There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.

        We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over 85
        or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
        clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my bees
        aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone told me
        they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter. Right
        now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
        (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).

        Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just one
        but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very front
        (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
        little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of new
        comb?

        Your thoughts please??

        Kristen



        The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • kmdaven
        Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have enough to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term hive? Our winter is
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 19, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have enough
          to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term hive?
          Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six months,
          with no nectar, easy.

          Kristen

          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees that
          come out
          > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows.
          It takes
          > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
          >
          >
          > Scot McPherson
          > McPherson Family Farms
          > Davenport, IA
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of
          > kmdaven
          > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
          > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
          >
          > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
          > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH
          in
          > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
          > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are nicer
          > than in my Langs (so far).
          >
          > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
          > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in
          late
          > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand
          new
          > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all
          through
          > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top
          bar
          > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago, I
          > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I didn't
          > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight bars
          > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
          > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
          > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.
          >
          > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over 85
          > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
          > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my
          bees
          > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone told
          me
          > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter.
          Right
          > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
          > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
          >
          > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just one
          > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very front
          > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
          > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of
          new
          > comb?
          >
          > Your thoughts please??
          >
          > Kristen
          >
          >
          >
          > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • Scot McPherson
          It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters sound similar to mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end, maybe early November if
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 19, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters sound similar to
            mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end, maybe early
            November if the weather is kind and the goldenrod feels like producing. Then
            winter sets in with lows around -20F until February, when the ice starts to
            break but it can still snow until april and maybe even may. First things to
            open are the early trees and dandelions, then clovers and alfalfa, then soy
            and late blooming trees, then goldenrod and miscellania...

            It is suggested that you have between 60-80 lbs for winters like mine,
            however I know some of my hives only had 30lbs of honey in them because the
            goldenrod didn't produce a single drop of honey last year. They made it. I
            lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of honey, but due to a
            lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey would have been
            needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the bees had to
            overwinter without brooding until February when the weather broke up enough
            for me to safely through pollen into combs for the bees to use for brooding,
            which they did and it saved probably half of the survivors I had. I would
            recommend 60 lbs I think. One thing to remember is this...You can ALWAYS
            take the honey in the spring when its safe to pull it. Better to leave it on
            for winter and take it in spring.

            That's my take on it.

            Scot McPherson
            McPherson Family Farms
            Davenport, IA

            -----Original Message-----
            From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            kmdaven
            Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:24 PM
            To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW


            Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have enough
            to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term hive?
            Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six months,
            with no nectar, easy.

            Kristen

            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees that
            come out
            > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows.
            It takes
            > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
            >
            >
            > Scot McPherson
            > McPherson Family Farms
            > Davenport, IA
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of
            > kmdaven
            > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
            > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
            >
            > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
            > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH
            in
            > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
            > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are nicer
            > than in my Langs (so far).
            >
            > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
            > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in
            late
            > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand
            new
            > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all
            through
            > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top
            bar
            > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago, I
            > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I didn't
            > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight bars
            > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
            > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
            > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.
            >
            > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over 85
            > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
            > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my
            bees
            > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone told
            me
            > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter.
            Right
            > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
            > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
            >
            > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just one
            > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very front
            > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
            > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of
            new
            > comb?
            >
            > Your thoughts please??
            >
            > Kristen
            >
            >
            >
            > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >




            The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • kmdaven
            Yes, it sounds like our winters are similar. Our dandelions go in mid- April and it s all good from there. OK, so how many top bar combs, on average, would be
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 20, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes, it sounds like our winters are similar. Our dandelions go in mid-
              April and it's all good from there. OK, so how many top bar combs, on
              average, would be 60 pounds (that's five gallons, right?) of honey??
              That seems to me it would be an entire 30-bar hive filled to the brim
              with honey. If my bees are, right now, only at 8 bars, 8 drawn combs,
              what chance do we have here of making it through winter? I'm feeling
              a little low about this.
              My Lang hive , I'm not so concerned- they have 14 frames built in
              there (foundationless)... Seems they might fill two whole boxes
              before winter, but dang, the tbh's are slow. I'm hopeful that adding
              three whole bars between their brood bars will help and next time I
              check we'll have 11 bars each.

              kristen


              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters sound
              similar to
              > mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end, maybe
              early
              > November if the weather is kind and the goldenrod feels like
              producing. Then
              > winter sets in with lows around -20F until February, when the ice
              starts to
              > break but it can still snow until april and maybe even may. First
              things to
              > open are the early trees and dandelions, then clovers and alfalfa,
              then soy
              > and late blooming trees, then goldenrod and miscellania...
              >
              > It is suggested that you have between 60-80 lbs for winters like
              mine,
              > however I know some of my hives only had 30lbs of honey in them
              because the
              > goldenrod didn't produce a single drop of honey last year. They
              made it. I
              > lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of honey, but
              due to a
              > lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey would
              have been
              > needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the bees had to
              > overwinter without brooding until February when the weather broke
              up enough
              > for me to safely through pollen into combs for the bees to use for
              brooding,
              > which they did and it saved probably half of the survivors I had. I
              would
              > recommend 60 lbs I think. One thing to remember is this...You can
              ALWAYS
              > take the honey in the spring when its safe to pull it. Better to
              leave it on
              > for winter and take it in spring.
              >
              > That's my take on it.
              >
              > Scot McPherson
              > McPherson Family Farms
              > Davenport, IA
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of
              > kmdaven
              > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:24 PM
              > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
              >
              >
              > Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have
              enough
              > to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term
              hive?
              > Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six
              months,
              > with no nectar, easy.
              >
              > Kristen
              >
              > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees
              that
              > come out
              > > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows.
              > It takes
              > > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
              > >
              > >
              > > Scot McPherson
              > > McPherson Family Farms
              > > Davenport, IA
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of
              > > kmdaven
              > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
              > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
              > >
              > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
              > > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH
              > in
              > > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
              > > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are
              nicer
              > > than in my Langs (so far).
              > >
              > > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
              > > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in
              > late
              > > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand
              > new
              > > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all
              > through
              > > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top
              > bar
              > > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago,
              I
              > > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I
              didn't
              > > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight
              bars
              > > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
              > > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
              > > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.
              > >
              > > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over
              85
              > > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
              > > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my
              > bees
              > > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone
              told
              > me
              > > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter.
              > Right
              > > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
              > > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
              > >
              > > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just
              one
              > > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very
              front
              > > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
              > > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of
              > new
              > > comb?
              > >
              > > Your thoughts please??
              > >
              > > Kristen
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • Scot Mc Pherson
              Well you don t have a strong colony going into winter and they won t consume as much. You are probably ok with 12 bars....tops of brood nest with honey, and 4
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 20, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Well you don't have a strong colony going into winter and they won't
                consume as much. You are probably ok with 12 bars....tops of brood
                nest with honey, and 4 more bars full of honey. That's not saying you
                are guaranteed, but I think they will get through with that. I had a
                ffew hives make it through with less this year.

                Scot

                On 7/20/07, kmdaven <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                > Yes, it sounds like our winters are similar. Our dandelions go in mid-
                > April and it's all good from there. OK, so how many top bar combs, on
                > average, would be 60 pounds (that's five gallons, right?) of honey??
                > That seems to me it would be an entire 30-bar hive filled to the brim
                > with honey. If my bees are, right now, only at 8 bars, 8 drawn combs,
                > what chance do we have here of making it through winter? I'm feeling
                > a little low about this.
                > My Lang hive , I'm not so concerned- they have 14 frames built in
                > there (foundationless)... Seems they might fill two whole boxes
                > before winter, but dang, the tbh's are slow. I'm hopeful that adding
                > three whole bars between their brood bars will help and next time I
                > check we'll have 11 bars each.
                >
                > kristen
                >
                >
                > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters sound
                > similar to
                > > mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end, maybe
                > early
                > > November if the weather is kind and the goldenrod feels like
                > producing. Then
                > > winter sets in with lows around -20F until February, when the ice
                > starts to
                > > break but it can still snow until april and maybe even may. First
                > things to
                > > open are the early trees and dandelions, then clovers and alfalfa,
                > then soy
                > > and late blooming trees, then goldenrod and miscellania...
                > >
                > > It is suggested that you have between 60-80 lbs for winters like
                > mine,
                > > however I know some of my hives only had 30lbs of honey in them
                > because the
                > > goldenrod didn't produce a single drop of honey last year. They
                > made it. I
                > > lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of honey, but
                > due to a
                > > lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey would
                > have been
                > > needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the bees had to
                > > overwinter without brooding until February when the weather broke
                > up enough
                > > for me to safely through pollen into combs for the bees to use for
                > brooding,
                > > which they did and it saved probably half of the survivors I had. I
                > would
                > > recommend 60 lbs I think. One thing to remember is this...You can
                > ALWAYS
                > > take the honey in the spring when its safe to pull it. Better to
                > leave it on
                > > for winter and take it in spring.
                > >
                > > That's my take on it.
                > >
                > > Scot McPherson
                > > McPherson Family Farms
                > > Davenport, IA
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of
                > > kmdaven
                > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:24 PM
                > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                > >
                > >
                > > Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have
                > enough
                > > to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term
                > hive?
                > > Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six
                > months,
                > > with no nectar, easy.
                > >
                > > Kristen
                > >
                > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees
                > that
                > > come out
                > > > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows.
                > > It takes
                > > > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Scot McPherson
                > > > McPherson Family Farms
                > > > Davenport, IA
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                > > Behalf Of
                > > > kmdaven
                > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
                > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                > > >
                > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                > > > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH
                > > in
                > > > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
                > > > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are
                > nicer
                > > > than in my Langs (so far).
                > > >
                > > > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
                > > > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in
                > > late
                > > > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand
                > > new
                > > > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all
                > > through
                > > > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top
                > > bar
                > > > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago,
                > I
                > > > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I
                > didn't
                > > > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight
                > bars
                > > > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
                > > > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
                > > > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.
                > > >
                > > > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over
                > 85
                > > > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
                > > > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my
                > > bees
                > > > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone
                > told
                > > me
                > > > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter.
                > > Right
                > > > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
                > > > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
                > > >
                > > > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just
                > one
                > > > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very
                > front
                > > > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
                > > > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of
                > > new
                > > > comb?
                > > >
                > > > Your thoughts please??
                > > >
                > > > Kristen
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Scot McPherson
                McPherson Family Farms
              • Scot Mc Pherson
                You know it occurs to me that you don t want to disturb the brood nest all the time. Its too late to introduce comb into the brood nest, just let them build
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 20, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  You know it occurs to me that you don't want to disturb the brood nest
                  all the time. Its too late to introduce comb into the brood nest, just
                  let them build out the back of the hive. The less you disturb them
                  now, the more they'll get done.

                  They won't build brood comb this time of year anyway.
                  Scot

                  On 7/20/07, Scot Mc Pherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                  > Well you don't have a strong colony going into winter and they won't
                  > consume as much. You are probably ok with 12 bars....tops of brood
                  > nest with honey, and 4 more bars full of honey. That's not saying you
                  > are guaranteed, but I think they will get through with that. I had a
                  > ffew hives make it through with less this year.
                  >
                  > Scot
                  >
                  > On 7/20/07, kmdaven <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                  > > Yes, it sounds like our winters are similar. Our dandelions go in mid-
                  > > April and it's all good from there. OK, so how many top bar combs, on
                  > > average, would be 60 pounds (that's five gallons, right?) of honey??
                  > > That seems to me it would be an entire 30-bar hive filled to the brim
                  > > with honey. If my bees are, right now, only at 8 bars, 8 drawn combs,
                  > > what chance do we have here of making it through winter? I'm feeling
                  > > a little low about this.
                  > > My Lang hive , I'm not so concerned- they have 14 frames built in
                  > > there (foundationless)... Seems they might fill two whole boxes
                  > > before winter, but dang, the tbh's are slow. I'm hopeful that adding
                  > > three whole bars between their brood bars will help and next time I
                  > > check we'll have 11 bars each.
                  > >
                  > > kristen
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters sound
                  > > similar to
                  > > > mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end, maybe
                  > > early
                  > > > November if the weather is kind and the goldenrod feels like
                  > > producing. Then
                  > > > winter sets in with lows around -20F until February, when the ice
                  > > starts to
                  > > > break but it can still snow until april and maybe even may. First
                  > > things to
                  > > > open are the early trees and dandelions, then clovers and alfalfa,
                  > > then soy
                  > > > and late blooming trees, then goldenrod and miscellania...
                  > > >
                  > > > It is suggested that you have between 60-80 lbs for winters like
                  > > mine,
                  > > > however I know some of my hives only had 30lbs of honey in them
                  > > because the
                  > > > goldenrod didn't produce a single drop of honey last year. They
                  > > made it. I
                  > > > lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of honey, but
                  > > due to a
                  > > > lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey would
                  > > have been
                  > > > needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the bees had to
                  > > > overwinter without brooding until February when the weather broke
                  > > up enough
                  > > > for me to safely through pollen into combs for the bees to use for
                  > > brooding,
                  > > > which they did and it saved probably half of the survivors I had. I
                  > > would
                  > > > recommend 60 lbs I think. One thing to remember is this...You can
                  > > ALWAYS
                  > > > take the honey in the spring when its safe to pull it. Better to
                  > > leave it on
                  > > > for winter and take it in spring.
                  > > >
                  > > > That's my take on it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Scot McPherson
                  > > > McPherson Family Farms
                  > > > Davenport, IA
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > > Behalf Of
                  > > > kmdaven
                  > > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:24 PM
                  > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have
                  > > enough
                  > > > to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term
                  > > hive?
                  > > > Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six
                  > > months,
                  > > > with no nectar, easy.
                  > > >
                  > > > Kristen
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson" <scot.mcpherson@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal. Bees
                  > > that
                  > > > come out
                  > > > > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the flows.
                  > > > It takes
                  > > > > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Scot McPherson
                  > > > > McPherson Family Farms
                  > > > > Davenport, IA
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > > > Behalf Of
                  > > > > kmdaven
                  > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
                  > > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                  > > > >
                  > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                  > > > > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with the TBH
                  > > > in
                  > > > > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them better
                  > > > > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs are
                  > > nicer
                  > > > > than in my Langs (so far).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG SLOW?? I
                  > > > > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars each) in
                  > > > late
                  > > > > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm brand
                  > > > new
                  > > > > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So all
                  > > > through
                  > > > > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in the top
                  > > > bar
                  > > > > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10 days ago,
                  > > I
                  > > > > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I
                  > > didn't
                  > > > > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were eight
                  > > bars
                  > > > > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite massive
                  > > > > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem fine.
                  > > > > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very fast.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go over
                  > > 85
                  > > > > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
                  > > > > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand why my
                  > > > bees
                  > > > > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as someone
                  > > told
                  > > > me
                  > > > > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the winter.
                  > > > Right
                  > > > > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of honey.
                  > > > > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing just
                  > > one
                  > > > > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very
                  > > front
                  > > > > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in their
                  > > > > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a lot of
                  > > > new
                  > > > > comb?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Your thoughts please??
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Kristen
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                  > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Scot McPherson
                  > McPherson Family Farms
                  >


                  --
                  Scot McPherson
                  McPherson Family Farms
                • kmdaven
                  Scot, well it s too late! I introduced 3 new empty bars into their nest (well , 2 in the brood nest, and one at the front of the hive- the comb they usually
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 21, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Scot,
                    well it's too late! I introduced 3 new empty bars into their nest
                    (well , 2 in the brood nest, and one at the front of the hive- the
                    comb they usually fill with honey). I did this about five days ago
                    now. I will leave them alone after this and hope they build out
                    because this will leave each of them with 11-12 bars. Should I,
                    however, encourage them to build more honey comb? For instance, if I
                    go back to check in a week and they've built out those 3 bars, and
                    say the last bar (farthest from the entrance) is honey comb, should I
                    go ahead and put an empty bar inbetween the second-to-last and last
                    combs? That would (I guess?) encourage them to build farther out into
                    the box, right?

                    I guess we'll see! I sure hope we have a powerful late summer bloom.
                    I think we will- we've been getting rain and more rain- so barring
                    any early frost , we should have super-duper
                    sunflower/aster/chamisa/goldenrod bloom in about four weeks.

                    But it makes me nervous, my first beehives going into winter so small!

                    thanks for all your superb advice.

                    Kristen

                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Mc Pherson"
                    <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > You know it occurs to me that you don't want to disturb the brood
                    nest
                    > all the time. Its too late to introduce comb into the brood nest,
                    just
                    > let them build out the back of the hive. The less you disturb them
                    > now, the more they'll get done.
                    >
                    > They won't build brood comb this time of year anyway.
                    > Scot
                    >
                    > On 7/20/07, Scot Mc Pherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                    > > Well you don't have a strong colony going into winter and they
                    won't
                    > > consume as much. You are probably ok with 12 bars....tops of brood
                    > > nest with honey, and 4 more bars full of honey. That's not saying
                    you
                    > > are guaranteed, but I think they will get through with that. I
                    had a
                    > > ffew hives make it through with less this year.
                    > >
                    > > Scot
                    > >
                    > > On 7/20/07, kmdaven <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                    > > > Yes, it sounds like our winters are similar. Our dandelions go
                    in mid-
                    > > > April and it's all good from there. OK, so how many top bar
                    combs, on
                    > > > average, would be 60 pounds (that's five gallons, right?) of
                    honey??
                    > > > That seems to me it would be an entire 30-bar hive filled to
                    the brim
                    > > > with honey. If my bees are, right now, only at 8 bars, 8 drawn
                    combs,
                    > > > what chance do we have here of making it through winter? I'm
                    feeling
                    > > > a little low about this.
                    > > > My Lang hive , I'm not so concerned- they have 14 frames built
                    in
                    > > > there (foundationless)... Seems they might fill two whole boxes
                    > > > before winter, but dang, the tbh's are slow. I'm hopeful that
                    adding
                    > > > three whole bars between their brood bars will help and next
                    time I
                    > > > check we'll have 11 bars each.
                    > > >
                    > > > kristen
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                    <scot.mcpherson@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters
                    sound
                    > > > similar to
                    > > > > mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end,
                    maybe
                    > > > early
                    > > > > November if the weather is kind and the goldenrod feels like
                    > > > producing. Then
                    > > > > winter sets in with lows around -20F until February, when the
                    ice
                    > > > starts to
                    > > > > break but it can still snow until april and maybe even may.
                    First
                    > > > things to
                    > > > > open are the early trees and dandelions, then clovers and
                    alfalfa,
                    > > > then soy
                    > > > > and late blooming trees, then goldenrod and miscellania...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It is suggested that you have between 60-80 lbs for winters
                    like
                    > > > mine,
                    > > > > however I know some of my hives only had 30lbs of honey in
                    them
                    > > > because the
                    > > > > goldenrod didn't produce a single drop of honey last year.
                    They
                    > > > made it. I
                    > > > > lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of
                    honey, but
                    > > > due to a
                    > > > > lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey
                    would
                    > > > have been
                    > > > > needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the bees
                    had to
                    > > > > overwinter without brooding until February when the weather
                    broke
                    > > > up enough
                    > > > > for me to safely through pollen into combs for the bees to
                    use for
                    > > > brooding,
                    > > > > which they did and it saved probably half of the survivors I
                    had. I
                    > > > would
                    > > > > recommend 60 lbs I think. One thing to remember is this...You
                    can
                    > > > ALWAYS
                    > > > > take the honey in the spring when its safe to pull it. Better
                    to
                    > > > leave it on
                    > > > > for winter and take it in spring.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > That's my take on it.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Scot McPherson
                    > > > > McPherson Family Farms
                    > > > > Davenport, IA
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > > > Behalf Of
                    > > > > kmdaven
                    > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:24 PM
                    > > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have
                    > > > enough
                    > > > > to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term
                    > > > hive?
                    > > > > Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six
                    > > > months,
                    > > > > with no nectar, easy.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Kristen
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                    <scot.mcpherson@>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal.
                    Bees
                    > > > that
                    > > > > come out
                    > > > > > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the
                    flows.
                    > > > > It takes
                    > > > > > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Scot McPherson
                    > > > > > McPherson Family Farms
                    > > > > > Davenport, IA
                    > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > > > > Behalf Of
                    > > > > > kmdaven
                    > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
                    > > > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                    > > > > > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with
                    the TBH
                    > > > > in
                    > > > > > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them
                    better
                    > > > > > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs
                    are
                    > > > nicer
                    > > > > > than in my Langs (so far).
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG
                    SLOW?? I
                    > > > > > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars
                    each) in
                    > > > > late
                    > > > > > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm
                    brand
                    > > > > new
                    > > > > > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So
                    all
                    > > > > through
                    > > > > > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in
                    the top
                    > > > > bar
                    > > > > > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10
                    days ago,
                    > > > I
                    > > > > > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I
                    > > > didn't
                    > > > > > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were
                    eight
                    > > > bars
                    > > > > > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite
                    massive
                    > > > > > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem
                    fine.
                    > > > > > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very
                    fast.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go
                    over
                    > > > 85
                    > > > > > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
                    > > > > > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand
                    why my
                    > > > > bees
                    > > > > > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as
                    someone
                    > > > told
                    > > > > me
                    > > > > > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the
                    winter.
                    > > > > Right
                    > > > > > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of
                    honey.
                    > > > > > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing
                    just
                    > > > one
                    > > > > > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very
                    > > > front
                    > > > > > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in
                    their
                    > > > > > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a
                    lot of
                    > > > > new
                    > > > > > comb?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Your thoughts please??
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Kristen
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                    > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                    > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Scot McPherson
                    > > McPherson Family Farms
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Scot McPherson
                    > McPherson Family Farms
                    >
                  • Scot McPherson
                    Well the thing is, they don t build brood comb this time of year generally. The next time you go in the hive, if its big cell honey comb, then just pull them
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 21, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well the thing is, they don't build brood comb this time of year generally.
                      The next time you go in the hive, if its big cell honey comb, then just pull
                      them out and put them in the end of the hive.

                      Scot McPherson
                      McPherson Family Farms
                      Davenport, IA
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      kmdaven
                      Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:08 PM
                      To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW

                      Scot,
                      well it's too late! I introduced 3 new empty bars into their nest
                      (well , 2 in the brood nest, and one at the front of the hive- the
                      comb they usually fill with honey). I did this about five days ago
                      now. I will leave them alone after this and hope they build out
                      because this will leave each of them with 11-12 bars. Should I,
                      however, encourage them to build more honey comb? For instance, if I
                      go back to check in a week and they've built out those 3 bars, and
                      say the last bar (farthest from the entrance) is honey comb, should I
                      go ahead and put an empty bar inbetween the second-to-last and last
                      combs? That would (I guess?) encourage them to build farther out into
                      the box, right?

                      I guess we'll see! I sure hope we have a powerful late summer bloom.
                      I think we will- we've been getting rain and more rain- so barring
                      any early frost , we should have super-duper
                      sunflower/aster/chamisa/goldenrod bloom in about four weeks.

                      But it makes me nervous, my first beehives going into winter so small!

                      thanks for all your superb advice.

                      Kristen

                      --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Mc Pherson"
                      <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > You know it occurs to me that you don't want to disturb the brood
                      nest
                      > all the time. Its too late to introduce comb into the brood nest,
                      just
                      > let them build out the back of the hive. The less you disturb them
                      > now, the more they'll get done.
                      >
                      > They won't build brood comb this time of year anyway.
                      > Scot
                      >
                      > On 7/20/07, Scot Mc Pherson <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                      > > Well you don't have a strong colony going into winter and they
                      won't
                      > > consume as much. You are probably ok with 12 bars....tops of brood
                      > > nest with honey, and 4 more bars full of honey. That's not saying
                      you
                      > > are guaranteed, but I think they will get through with that. I
                      had a
                      > > ffew hives make it through with less this year.
                      > >
                      > > Scot
                      > >
                      > > On 7/20/07, kmdaven <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                      > > > Yes, it sounds like our winters are similar. Our dandelions go
                      in mid-
                      > > > April and it's all good from there. OK, so how many top bar
                      combs, on
                      > > > average, would be 60 pounds (that's five gallons, right?) of
                      honey??
                      > > > That seems to me it would be an entire 30-bar hive filled to
                      the brim
                      > > > with honey. If my bees are, right now, only at 8 bars, 8 drawn
                      combs,
                      > > > what chance do we have here of making it through winter? I'm
                      feeling
                      > > > a little low about this.
                      > > > My Lang hive , I'm not so concerned- they have 14 frames built
                      in
                      > > > there (foundationless)... Seems they might fill two whole boxes
                      > > > before winter, but dang, the tbh's are slow. I'm hopeful that
                      adding
                      > > > three whole bars between their brood bars will help and next
                      time I
                      > > > check we'll have 11 bars each.
                      > > >
                      > > > kristen
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                      <scot.mcpherson@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is best to ask your local beekeepers, but your winters
                      sound
                      > > > similar to
                      > > > > mine. From a honey flow perspective, yes October is the end,
                      maybe
                      > > > early
                      > > > > November if the weather is kind and the goldenrod feels like
                      > > > producing. Then
                      > > > > winter sets in with lows around -20F until February, when the
                      ice
                      > > > starts to
                      > > > > break but it can still snow until april and maybe even may.
                      First
                      > > > things to
                      > > > > open are the early trees and dandelions, then clovers and
                      alfalfa,
                      > > > then soy
                      > > > > and late blooming trees, then goldenrod and miscellania...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is suggested that you have between 60-80 lbs for winters
                      like
                      > > > mine,
                      > > > > however I know some of my hives only had 30lbs of honey in
                      them
                      > > > because the
                      > > > > goldenrod didn't produce a single drop of honey last year.
                      They
                      > > > made it. I
                      > > > > lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of
                      honey, but
                      > > > due to a
                      > > > > lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey
                      would
                      > > > have been
                      > > > > needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the bees
                      had to
                      > > > > overwinter without brooding until February when the weather
                      broke
                      > > > up enough
                      > > > > for me to safely through pollen into combs for the bees to
                      use for
                      > > > brooding,
                      > > > > which they did and it saved probably half of the survivors I
                      had. I
                      > > > would
                      > > > > recommend 60 lbs I think. One thing to remember is this...You
                      can
                      > > > ALWAYS
                      > > > > take the honey in the spring when its safe to pull it. Better
                      to
                      > > > leave it on
                      > > > > for winter and take it in spring.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > That's my take on it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Scot McPherson
                      > > > > McPherson Family Farms
                      > > > > Davenport, IA
                      > > > >
                      > > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > > > Behalf Of
                      > > > > kmdaven
                      > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 9:24 PM
                      > > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Scot, in my very long winter, how do I know my bees will have
                      > > > enough
                      > > > > to get through, so I have a chance of establishing a long-term
                      > > > hive?
                      > > > > Our winter is basically October through mid-April. A good six
                      > > > months,
                      > > > > with no nectar, easy.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Kristen
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                      <scot.mcpherson@>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > 2nd year hives always do better if all things are equal.
                      Bees
                      > > > that
                      > > > > come out
                      > > > > > of winter are in a far better position to build up for the
                      flows.
                      > > > > It takes
                      > > > > > lots of bees to build a surplus of honey.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Scot McPherson
                      > > > > > McPherson Family Farms
                      > > > > > Davenport, IA
                      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > > > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > > > > Behalf Of
                      > > > > > kmdaven
                      > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:56 PM
                      > > > > > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > Subject: [TopHive] aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                      > > > > > foundationless... It seems I'll be best off sticking with
                      the TBH
                      > > > > in
                      > > > > > my situation. I admit, for whatever reason, I like them
                      better
                      > > > > > anyway. They feel better to me. Plus, the bees in my TBHs
                      are
                      > > > nicer
                      > > > > > than in my Langs (so far).
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > But, speaking of my top bar hives, WHY ARE THEY SO DANG
                      SLOW?? I
                      > > > > > installed two nucs into top bar hives (nucs were 3 bars
                      each) in
                      > > > > late
                      > > > > > May. I checked 10 days ago and there were 8 bars each. I'm
                      brand
                      > > > > new
                      > > > > > to bees, keep in mind- I have 2 Lang hives and 2 TBHs. So
                      all
                      > > > > through
                      > > > > > june I had been putting empty bars between brood combs in
                      the top
                      > > > > bar
                      > > > > > hives, and they would build them out. When I checked 10
                      days ago,
                      > > > I
                      > > > > > was feeling unsure of how long I should keep that up, and I
                      > > > didn't
                      > > > > > put any empty bars inbetween any brood combs. There were
                      eight
                      > > > bars
                      > > > > > each at that time. So today I went to check and, despite
                      massive
                      > > > > > clover bloom, each TBH had: Eight bars each. The bees seem
                      fine.
                      > > > > > There's brood and eggs. But they are just not growing very
                      fast.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > We are in a pretty chilly climate- our days almost never go
                      over
                      > > > 85
                      > > > > > or so- up in the mountains. But there really is a massive
                      > > > > > clover/alfalfa bloom going on, so I just don't understand
                      why my
                      > > > > bees
                      > > > > > aren't building up faster. I'm worried about them, as
                      someone
                      > > > told
                      > > > > me
                      > > > > > they need at least 12 bars of honey to get through the
                      winter.
                      > > > > Right
                      > > > > > now they each have about 7 frames of brood and 1 frame of
                      honey.
                      > > > > > (There is honey on the edges of the brood, however).
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Today I did put empty bars in each TBH... I had been doing
                      just
                      > > > one
                      > > > > > but today I put two between brood frames and one at the very
                      > > > front
                      > > > > > (where they usually put honey). So three new bars total in
                      their
                      > > > > > little Nest. But is it too late for them to be building a
                      lot of
                      > > > > new
                      > > > > > comb?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Your thoughts please??
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Kristen
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                      > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Scot McPherson
                      > > McPherson Family Farms
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Scot McPherson
                      > McPherson Family Farms
                      >




                      The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • bloomvillebee
                      Hi Scot, I am interested in understanding more about your comments re. I lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of honey, but due to a lack of
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 23, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Scot,
                        I am interested in understanding more about your comments re. "I
                        lost many colonies over the winter, but not to a lack of honey, but
                        due to a lack of pollen. I suppose if I had pollen, then more honey
                        would have been needed to make bee bread for larvae, but as it was the
                        bees had to overwinter without brooding until February when the
                        weather broke up enough for me to safely through pollen into combs for
                        the bees to use for brooding, which they did and it saved probably
                        half of the survivors I had."

                        Question 1: How did you assess the problem as being lack of
                        pollen—what were your indicators? I am trying to understand how I, as
                        a new beekeeper, would be able to ID such a problem, in advance or
                        after the fact. Was it scrutinizing the contents of the combs when you
                        opened/inspected the hive after winter,and if so what did you look
                        for/see?

                        Q 2: How did you get the pollen to the bees to save those survivors in
                        Feb? Did you go into the hive on a warm day? Just trying to understand
                        the basic mechanics/activities/process here, as a newcomer to all of this.

                        Thank you in advance. Every day in this first beekeeping year, I
                        think, "How would I be able to do this without these great people on
                        the Internet walking me through every tiny question/problem/crisis
                        along the way?"

                        Gerry
                      • David Croteau
                        8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh s SLOW is the word I would use also. There is absolutely no surplus honey. They ll have enough to over winter on I m sure. One
                        Message 11 of 30 , Aug 11, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                          There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                          They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                          One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                          Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                          don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                          That may be why some super them.
                          Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                          hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                          Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                          I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                          5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                          TBH's, "ZERO."
                          Dave
                        • David Croteau
                          Hi Kristen 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh s SLOW is the word I would use also. There is absolutely no surplus honey. They ll have enough to over winter on I m
                          Message 12 of 30 , Aug 12, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Kristen
                            8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                            There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                            They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                            One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                            Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                            don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                            That may be why some super them.
                            Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                            hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                            Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                            I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                            5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                            TBH's, "ZERO."
                            Dave



                            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.


                            >
                          • mo
                            Hi Dave I think part of the problem is that the best flows are in the spring and if their not rocking then they have a harder time producing comb needed to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Aug 19, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Dave

                              I think part of the problem is that the best flows are in the spring
                              and if their not rocking then they have a harder time producing comb
                              needed to collect a surplus. If their building 5 pounds of wax its
                              like a super of honey.

                              The flows in Maine as you know are intense and erratic. Lets just say
                              your hive is full of Brood and Honey/Pollens. Nothing coming in then a
                              huge flow happens, they fill all the comb not occupied by brood
                              quickly, then have to start producing comb fast to cope with the
                              influx of new nectar. Unless its strong and has allot of young bees,
                              it can't keep up and have no where to put it or just fill what new
                              they can and plug up the broodnest.

                              Do you know if any or all have swarmed?
                              mo




                              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Kristen
                              > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                              > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                              > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                              > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                              > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                              > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                              > That may be why some super them.
                              > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                              > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                              > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                              > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                              > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                              > TBH's, "ZERO."
                              > Dave
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                            • kmdaven
                              Thanks David My two TBH s started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars. I think they will get through the winter. I ll see what they do next
                              Message 14 of 30 , Aug 20, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks David
                                My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars. I
                                think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do next
                                spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a Langstroth
                                hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much faster.
                                This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw any
                                conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely be
                                stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
                                sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more. I
                                read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
                                (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think most
                                likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I know a
                                guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each year
                                and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
                                season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.

                                Kristen



                                --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Kristen
                                > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                                > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                                > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                > That may be why some super them.
                                > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                                > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                > Dave
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                                >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                              • bloomvillebee
                                Kristin, When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars of honeycomb or mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter
                                Message 15 of 30 , Aug 21, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Kristin,
                                  When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars of honeycomb or
                                  mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter stores for a TBH and
                                  welcome any insights. It still seems that most of the combs in my hives are being used for
                                  brood-rearing. But since I am trying not to mess with the brood area too much, I'm not
                                  sure if they're now storing honey in the brood combs or what.

                                  If anyone can weigh in on how to clearly assess whether winter stores are adequate
                                  without taking the whole brood nest apart, I'd love advice. I am located in Northern NY,
                                  where winters are pretty long, wet, and cold. Zone 4.
                                  Best,
                                  Gerry

                                  --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks David
                                  > My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars. I
                                  > think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do next
                                  > spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a Langstroth
                                  > hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much faster.
                                  > This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw any
                                  > conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely be
                                  > stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
                                  > sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more. I
                                  > read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
                                  > (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think most
                                  > likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I know a
                                  > guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each year
                                  > and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
                                  > season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.
                                  >
                                  > Kristen
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi Kristen
                                  > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                                  > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                  > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                  > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                  > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                                  > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                  > > That may be why some super them.
                                  > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                  > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                  > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                  > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                                  > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                  > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                  > > Dave
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • kmdaven
                                  Hi Gerry, If I am understanding correctly, as long as there are 12 drawn bars, you re OK. I m also a cold climate, zone 4, first frost by mid- september and no
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Aug 21, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Gerry,
                                    If I am understanding correctly, as long as there are 12 drawn bars,
                                    you're OK. I'm also a cold climate, zone 4, first frost by mid-
                                    september and no dandelion until April 15. If I understand what
                                    my "mentor" here is saying, as fall approaches, the bees make less
                                    brood and more space is used for honey storage. So that is 12 bars
                                    of "mixed" comb. I didn't mess around too much this time in the brood
                                    chamber either but it seemed like they were about 50/50 for brood
                                    comb and honey comb. We'll see how they do. I'm nervous. I wish I
                                    wasn't so close to the threshold given to me, but then again, we've
                                    got three full weeks left at least (maybe more) and there's SO much
                                    blooming, and our "monsoon" rains have stopped so the bees have dawn
                                    to dusk for foraging instead of just short periods in the morning
                                    before the storms come. I'm hopeful.

                                    Hopefully someone with more knowledge will weigh in on this. I'm a
                                    total newbie.

                                    Kristen

                                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "bloomvillebee" <zychskyfarm@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Kristin,
                                    > When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars
                                    of honeycomb or
                                    > mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter
                                    stores for a TBH and
                                    > welcome any insights. It still seems that most of the combs in my
                                    hives are being used for
                                    > brood-rearing. But since I am trying not to mess with the brood
                                    area too much, I'm not
                                    > sure if they're now storing honey in the brood combs or what.
                                    >
                                    > If anyone can weigh in on how to clearly assess whether winter
                                    stores are adequate
                                    > without taking the whole brood nest apart, I'd love advice. I am
                                    located in Northern NY,
                                    > where winters are pretty long, wet, and cold. Zone 4.
                                    > Best,
                                    > Gerry
                                    >
                                    > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks David
                                    > > My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars.
                                    I
                                    > > think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do
                                    next
                                    > > spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a
                                    Langstroth
                                    > > hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much
                                    faster.
                                    > > This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw
                                    any
                                    > > conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely
                                    be
                                    > > stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
                                    > > sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more.
                                    I
                                    > > read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
                                    > > (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think
                                    most
                                    > > likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I
                                    know a
                                    > > guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each
                                    year
                                    > > and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
                                    > > season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.
                                    > >
                                    > > Kristen
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi Kristen
                                    > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                    also.
                                    > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                    > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                    > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                    > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                                    now I
                                    > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                    > > > That may be why some super them.
                                    > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                                    Langstroth
                                    > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                    > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                    > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                                    Aug
                                    > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                    > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                    > > > Dave
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • bloomvillebee
                                    Thanks for taking the time to reply, Kristin. It will be interesting to see if others weigh in. I am interested in as many takes on this as possible. I m a
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Aug 22, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks for taking the time to reply, Kristin. It will be interesting to see if others weigh in. I
                                      am interested in as many takes on this as possible. I'm a nervous bee-mom!!! :)
                                      Gerry

                                      --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Gerry,
                                      > If I am understanding correctly, as long as there are 12 drawn bars,
                                      > you're OK. I'm also a cold climate, zone 4, first frost by mid-
                                      > september and no dandelion until April 15. If I understand what
                                      > my "mentor" here is saying, as fall approaches, the bees make less
                                      > brood and more space is used for honey storage. So that is 12 bars
                                      > of "mixed" comb. I didn't mess around too much this time in the brood
                                      > chamber either but it seemed like they were about 50/50 for brood
                                      > comb and honey comb. We'll see how they do. I'm nervous. I wish I
                                      > wasn't so close to the threshold given to me, but then again, we've
                                      > got three full weeks left at least (maybe more) and there's SO much
                                      > blooming, and our "monsoon" rains have stopped so the bees have dawn
                                      > to dusk for foraging instead of just short periods in the morning
                                      > before the storms come. I'm hopeful.
                                      >
                                      > Hopefully someone with more knowledge will weigh in on this. I'm a
                                      > total newbie.
                                      >
                                      > Kristen
                                      >
                                      > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "bloomvillebee" <zychskyfarm@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Kristin,
                                      > > When you say 12 bars is considered sufficient, do you mean 12 bars
                                      > of honeycomb or
                                      > > mixed comb? I am still a little unclear as to how to assess winter
                                      > stores for a TBH and
                                      > > welcome any insights. It still seems that most of the combs in my
                                      > hives are being used for
                                      > > brood-rearing. But since I am trying not to mess with the brood
                                      > area too much, I'm not
                                      > > sure if they're now storing honey in the brood combs or what.
                                      > >
                                      > > If anyone can weigh in on how to clearly assess whether winter
                                      > stores are adequate
                                      > > without taking the whole brood nest apart, I'd love advice. I am
                                      > located in Northern NY,
                                      > > where winters are pretty long, wet, and cold. Zone 4.
                                      > > Best,
                                      > > Gerry
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks David
                                      > > > My two TBH's started at 3 bars each and now are both 11-12 bars.
                                      > I
                                      > > > think they will get through the winter. I'll see what they do
                                      > next
                                      > > > spring/summer before deciding to do Langstroths. I have a
                                      > Langstroth
                                      > > > hive that started at 4 frames and is now 15. So it grew much
                                      > faster.
                                      > > > This is my first year keeping bees so it's hard for me to draw
                                      > any
                                      > > > conclusions. I'm glad my two TBHs at least seem they will likely
                                      > be
                                      > > > stocked for winter- as I understand, 12 bars is considered
                                      > > > sufficient. I'm hopeful they will each have at least 13 or more.
                                      > I
                                      > > > read such conflicting things about the foundationless/TBH method
                                      > > > (whether or not it is more work for the bees, etc) and I think
                                      > most
                                      > > > likely it depends on your precise climate/nectar situation. I
                                      > know a
                                      > > > guy who produces hundreds of pounds of honey from top bars each
                                      > year
                                      > > > and he maintains he gets similar yields. But he is in a longer
                                      > > > season, warmer climate than me. We'll see.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Kristen
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hi Kristen
                                      > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                      > also.
                                      > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                      > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                      > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                      > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                                      > now I
                                      > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                      > > > > That may be why some super them.
                                      > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                                      > Langstroth
                                      > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                      > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                      > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                                      > Aug
                                      > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                      > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                      > > > > Dave
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "kmdaven" <kmdaven@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > HI there, and thanks to everyone on the thoughts on TBH vs.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • nicty95
                                      ... Dave, Don t get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep is your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural nest and store
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use also.
                                        > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                        > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                        > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                        > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now I
                                        > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                        > That may be why some super them.
                                        > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                        > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                        > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                        > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th & Aug
                                        > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                        > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                        > Dave
                                        >

                                        Dave,
                                        Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep is
                                        your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural nest
                                        and store everything around the brood making it impossible to harvest.
                                        This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that survive
                                        fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in environments
                                        will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being able
                                        to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                        behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                        square one!
                                        The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                        everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside a
                                        natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees you
                                        have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                                        they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust the
                                        environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if thier
                                        cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage area
                                        behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                        corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that you
                                        have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                                        should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                                        sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                                        Gary
                                        www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                      • Sarah Komar
                                        Gary, I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I really like it. How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive? Thanks,
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Gary,



                                          I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
                                          really like it.



                                          How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?



                                          Thanks,

                                          Sarah







                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Scot McPherson
                                          In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3 lbs and the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees. I like my
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Sep 5, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3 lbs and
                                            the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees. I like my
                                            packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an edge over 3
                                            lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees because you
                                            will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be the upper
                                            limit of benefit for packages.

                                            And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural swarms are
                                            not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....


                                            Scot McPherson
                                            McPherson Family Farms
                                            Davenport, IA
                                          • nicty95
                                            ... In this country the packages are usually swarms you get from the other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can buy from a
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Gary,
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
                                              > really like it.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Thanks,
                                              >
                                              > Sarah
                                              >

                                              In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                                              other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                                              buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • Sarah Komar
                                              Thanks for the responses. My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and starting in the spring with bees. I can t wait! Sarah ... From:
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Thanks for the responses.



                                                My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and starting in
                                                the spring with bees.



                                                I can't wait!



                                                Sarah



                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                Of nicty95
                                                Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:50 PM
                                                To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [TopHive] Re: To Gary at Hirschbach Apriary



                                                --- In TopHive@yahoogroups <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                                                "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Gary,
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar hive. I
                                                > really like it.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Thanks,
                                                >
                                                > Sarah
                                                >

                                                In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                                                other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                                                buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • nicty95
                                                ... lbs and ... I like my ... edge over 3 ... because you ... the upper ... swarms are ... If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn t a ten lb package
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                                                  <scot.mcpherson@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than 3
                                                  lbs and
                                                  > the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of bees.
                                                  I like my
                                                  > packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an
                                                  edge over 3
                                                  > lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees
                                                  because you
                                                  > will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be
                                                  the upper
                                                  > limit of benefit for packages.
                                                  >
                                                  > And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural
                                                  swarms are
                                                  > not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Scot McPherson
                                                  > McPherson Family Farms
                                                  > Davenport, IA
                                                  >
                                                  If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn't a ten lb package
                                                  be! I would take the largest package I could get. The more bee
                                                  installed the better a start they get all around more of a work
                                                  force = a fast build up, at least that is my experience when shaking
                                                  out bees in the spring! Next spring we are going to Romania to thin
                                                  out an apairy, we will shake 50 packages and bring them back for
                                                  TBH's we are building now. I am making the cages myself XL. These
                                                  bees are Russians and have not been treated in years!
                                                • nicty95
                                                  ... 3 ... bees. ... shaking ... thin ... nothing more than an artifical swarm.
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Scot McPherson"
                                                    > <scot.mcpherson@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > In any colony started from a package 3-5 lbs is ideal. Less than
                                                    3
                                                    > lbs and
                                                    > > the bees will build slowly, and more than 5lbs is a waste of
                                                    bees.
                                                    > I like my
                                                    > > packages right around 5 lbs if I am using packages. You get an
                                                    > edge over 3
                                                    > > lbs, but as I said anything more than 5 lbs is a waste of bees
                                                    > because you
                                                    > > will see zero appreciation for the extra bees. 5lbs seems to be
                                                    > the upper
                                                    > > limit of benefit for packages.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > And for what its worth, keep in mind that packages and natural
                                                    > swarms are
                                                    > > not equal. A 10 lb. swarm is a treasure....
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Scot McPherson
                                                    > > McPherson Family Farms
                                                    > > Davenport, IA
                                                    > >
                                                    > If a 10 lb swarm is a treasure then why wouldn't a ten lb package
                                                    > be! I would take the largest package I could get. The more bee
                                                    > installed the better a start they get all around more of a work
                                                    > force = a fast build up, at least that is my experience when
                                                    shaking
                                                    > out bees in the spring! Next spring we are going to Romania to
                                                    thin
                                                    > out an apairy, we will shake 50 packages and bring them back for
                                                    > TBH's we are building now. I am making the cages myself XL. These
                                                    > bees are Russians and have not been treated in years! A package is
                                                    nothing more than an artifical swarm.
                                                    >
                                                  • nicty95
                                                    ... starting in ... Behalf ... hive. I ... Good luck, remember watch your bees and let them guide you. They know what they want.
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Sep 6, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Thanks for the responses.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > My husband and I will be building our hives this winter and
                                                      starting in
                                                      > the spring with bees.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I can't wait!
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Sarah
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                      Behalf
                                                      > Of nicty95
                                                      > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:50 PM
                                                      > To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Subject: [TopHive] Re: To Gary at Hirschbach Apriary
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
                                                      > "Sarah Komar" <odanjou@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Gary,
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I was just looking at your hive plans for the 34 bar top bar
                                                      hive. I
                                                      > > really like it.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > How many pounds of bees would you buy to start that hive?
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Sarah
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > In this country the "packages" are usually swarms you get from the
                                                      > other beeks in the area/club there is always an abundance. You can
                                                      > buy from a distributer and they usually are 1 kilo or 2.5 lbs.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      Good luck, remember watch your bees and let them guide you. They
                                                      know what they want.
                                                    • David Croteau
                                                      Hi Gary The bars 15 (13 working) & about 10 deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style Checked all hives yesterday. Didn t disturb brood nests. Found lots of empty
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Hi Gary'
                                                        The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style
                                                        Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                                        Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs, out of
                                                        lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                                        Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                                        It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                                                        much nectar.
                                                        They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                                        Will they get enough, good question.
                                                        Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise new
                                                        bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                                        With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                                        The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no all
                                                        honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                                        Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                                        winter.
                                                        But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                                        Dave


                                                        --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                                        also.
                                                        > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                                        > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                                        > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                                        > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now
                                                        I
                                                        > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                                        > > That may be why some super them.
                                                        > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                                        > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                                        > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                                        > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                                                        Aug
                                                        > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                                        > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                                        > > Dave
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > Dave,
                                                        > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep
                                                        is
                                                        > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                                                        nest
                                                        > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                                        harvest.
                                                        > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                                        survive
                                                        > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                                        environments
                                                        > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being
                                                        able
                                                        > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                                        > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                                        > square one!
                                                        > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                                        > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside
                                                        a
                                                        > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees
                                                        you
                                                        > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                                                        > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust
                                                        the
                                                        > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                                                        thier
                                                        > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                                                        area
                                                        > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                                        > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that
                                                        you
                                                        > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                                                        > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                                                        > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                                                        > Gary
                                                        > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                                        >
                                                      • Jim & Rebecca Payne
                                                        What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood they raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back and also adjusting
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood they
                                                          raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back and also
                                                          adjusting with what they have in storage.
                                                          Jim Payne


                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                                          To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                                                          Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW


                                                          > Hi Gary'
                                                          > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya style
                                                          > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                                          > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs, out of
                                                          > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                                          > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                                          > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                                                          > much nectar.
                                                          > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                                          > Will they get enough, good question.
                                                          > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise new
                                                          > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                                          > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                                          > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no all
                                                          > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                                          > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                                          > winter.
                                                          > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                                          > Dave
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@...> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                                          > > wrote:
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                                          > also.
                                                          > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                                          > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                                          > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                                          > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but now
                                                          > I
                                                          > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                                          > > > That may be why some super them.
                                                          > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into Langstroth
                                                          > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                                          > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                                          > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul 15th &
                                                          > Aug
                                                          > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                                          > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                                          > > > Dave
                                                          > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Dave,
                                                          > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how deep
                                                          > is
                                                          > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                                                          > nest
                                                          > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                                          > harvest.
                                                          > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                                          > survive
                                                          > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                                          > environments
                                                          > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them being
                                                          > able
                                                          > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                                          > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                                          > > square one!
                                                          > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                                          > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs inside
                                                          > a
                                                          > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The bees
                                                          > you
                                                          > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will bet
                                                          > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is adjust
                                                          > the
                                                          > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                                                          > thier
                                                          > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                                                          > area
                                                          > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                                          > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem that
                                                          > you
                                                          > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather he
                                                          > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what his
                                                          > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24 bars!
                                                          > > Gary
                                                          > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                          > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date: 9/14/07
                                                          8:59 AM
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                        • David Croteau
                                                          Carnoliian and that s what I m saying, they didn t cut back on brood rearing & used up most of storage,. But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious .
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Sep 14, 2007
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Carnoliian and that's what I'm saying, they didn't cut back on brood
                                                            rearing & used up most of storage,.
                                                            But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious . You don't suppose
                                                            those bees know what there doing do you?
                                                            Dave


                                                            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Rebecca Payne"
                                                            <jimandrebeccan@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the brood
                                                            they
                                                            > raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back
                                                            and also
                                                            > adjusting with what they have in storage.
                                                            > Jim Payne
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                                            > To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                                                            > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > > Hi Gary'
                                                            > > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars. Kenya
                                                            style
                                                            > > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                                            > > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs,
                                                            out of
                                                            > > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                                            > > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                                            > > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring in
                                                            > > much nectar.
                                                            > > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                                            > > Will they get enough, good question.
                                                            > > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise
                                                            new
                                                            > > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                                            > > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                                            > > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood, no
                                                            all
                                                            > > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                                            > > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                                            > > winter.
                                                            > > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                                            > > Dave
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@> wrote:
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                                            > > > wrote:
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would use
                                                            > > also.
                                                            > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                                            > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                                            > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                                            > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars, but
                                                            now
                                                            > > I
                                                            > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                                            > > > > That may be why some super them.
                                                            > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                                                            Langstroth
                                                            > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                                            > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                                            > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul
                                                            15th &
                                                            > > Aug
                                                            > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                                            > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                                            > > > > Dave
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > Dave,
                                                            > > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and how
                                                            deep
                                                            > > is
                                                            > > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a natural
                                                            > > nest
                                                            > > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                                            > > harvest.
                                                            > > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                                            > > survive
                                                            > > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                                            > > environments
                                                            > > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them
                                                            being
                                                            > > able
                                                            > > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the same
                                                            > > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back to
                                                            > > > square one!
                                                            > > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                                            > > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs
                                                            inside
                                                            > > a
                                                            > > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The
                                                            bees
                                                            > > you
                                                            > > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I will
                                                            bet
                                                            > > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is
                                                            adjust
                                                            > > the
                                                            > > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do if
                                                            > > thier
                                                            > > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a storage
                                                            > > area
                                                            > > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                                            > > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem
                                                            that
                                                            > > you
                                                            > > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and weather
                                                            he
                                                            > > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess what
                                                            his
                                                            > > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24
                                                            bars!
                                                            > > > Gary
                                                            > > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                                            > > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --
                                                            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                            > > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release Date:
                                                            9/14/07
                                                            > 8:59 AM
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            >
                                                          • Gary
                                                            ... brood ... suppose ... brood ... Kenya ... in ... no ... ... use ... but ... how ... natural ... same ... to ... will ... if ... storage
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Carnoliian and that's what I'm saying, they didn't cut back on
                                                              brood
                                                              > rearing & used up most of storage,.
                                                              > But there bringing in nectar today fast & furious . You don't
                                                              suppose
                                                              > those bees know what there doing do you?
                                                              > Dave
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Rebecca Payne"
                                                              > <jimandrebeccan@> wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > What race are your bees? That will have a lot to do with the
                                                              brood
                                                              > they
                                                              > > raise going into winter. Staying the same numbers or cutting back
                                                              > and also
                                                              > > adjusting with what they have in storage.
                                                              > > Jim Payne
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > From: "David Croteau" <davidlcroteau@>
                                                              > > To: <TopHive@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:48 AM
                                                              > > Subject: [TopHive] Re: aaagggh, my hives are so SLOW
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > > Hi Gary'
                                                              > > > The bars 15" (13 working) & about 10" deep, maybe 35 bars.
                                                              Kenya
                                                              > style
                                                              > > > Checked all hives yesterday. Didn't disturb brood nests.
                                                              > > > Found lots of empty combs in all hives, moved to rear in tbhs,
                                                              > out of
                                                              > > > lc hives, full honey super on top.
                                                              > > > Put what little honey I found next to nest.
                                                              > > > It seems bees use a lot of honey razing new bees & don't bring
                                                              in
                                                              > > > much nectar.
                                                              > > > They have maybe three weeks to fell some of those empty combs .
                                                              > > > Will they get enough, good question.
                                                              > > > Seems they were not worried about using up all stores to raise
                                                              > new
                                                              > > > bees, lots of brood everywhere, but it worries me.
                                                              > > > With brood & honey, about 17 bars in use.
                                                              > > > The one the swarm entered this spring has 13 bars all brood,
                                                              no
                                                              > all
                                                              > > > honey bars, they got there work cut out for them.
                                                              > > > Maybe they know something I don't, no frost this year, maybe no
                                                              > > > winter.
                                                              > > > But I just built a fire this morning (44*).
                                                              > > > Dave
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "nicty95" <nicty95@> wrote:
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "David Croteau"
                                                              <davidlcroteau@>
                                                              > > > > wrote:
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > 8/11/07 Just checked my 4 tbh's "SLOW" is the word I would
                                                              use
                                                              > > > also.
                                                              > > > > > There is absolutely no surplus honey.
                                                              > > > > > They'll have enough to over winter on I'm sure.
                                                              > > > > > One is two yrs old & is the same shape as the other three.
                                                              > > > > > Was going to convert my other three LC hives to top bars,
                                                              but
                                                              > now
                                                              > > > I
                                                              > > > > > don't think it's a good idea, no production.
                                                              > > > > > That may be why some super them.
                                                              > > > > > Maybe we can use the natural size bees to install into
                                                              > Langstroth
                                                              > > > > > hives, Just the reverse of what we been doing.
                                                              > > > > > Use top bar hives as over wintering nucs.
                                                              > > > > > I harvested 300 lbs from the three Langstroth hives, Jul
                                                              > 15th &
                                                              > > > Aug
                                                              > > > > > 5th, about 150 pounds each time.
                                                              > > > > > TBH's, "ZERO."
                                                              > > > > > Dave
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Dave,
                                                              > > > > Don't get frustrated yet. What size bars are you using and
                                                              how
                                                              > deep
                                                              > > > is
                                                              > > > > your hive? If the volume is too large they will build a
                                                              natural
                                                              > > > nest
                                                              > > > > and store everything around the brood making it impossible to
                                                              > > > harvest.
                                                              > > > > This is not necessarily a bad thing. If you put the bees that
                                                              > > > survive
                                                              > > > > fine on the TBH comb back into a Lang the difference in
                                                              > > > environments
                                                              > > > > will be the stress factor which make the difference in them
                                                              > being
                                                              > > > able
                                                              > > > > to handle the mite load. In other words they will show the
                                                              same
                                                              > > > > behavior but will not tolerate the mites and you will be back
                                                              to
                                                              > > > > square one!
                                                              > > > > The small cell theory was on the right track it just was not
                                                              > > > > everything. The real advantage of the small cell bees occurs
                                                              > inside
                                                              > > > a
                                                              > > > > natural nest and you don't need foundation to get there. The
                                                              > bees
                                                              > > > you
                                                              > > > > have now may never build you a comb you can harvest, but I
                                                              will
                                                              > bet
                                                              > > > > they survive without any treatments. All you have to do is
                                                              > adjust
                                                              > > > the
                                                              > > > > environment to force them to do what they would naturally do
                                                              if
                                                              > > > thier
                                                              > > > > cavity was a little smaller and that would be to make a
                                                              storage
                                                              > > > area
                                                              > > > > behind the brood nest then you can harvest some honey! I am
                                                              > > > > corresopnding with a beek who has the total opposite problem
                                                              > that
                                                              > > > you
                                                              > > > > have he is worried about the congestion in the hive and
                                                              weather
                                                              > he
                                                              > > > > should pull honey combs to keeep them from swarming. Guess
                                                              what
                                                              > his
                                                              > > > > sizes are. 14 inch bars and 9 inches deep with a total of 24
                                                              > bars!
                                                              > > > > Gary
                                                              > > > > www.hirschbachapiary.com
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at
                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > --
                                                              > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                              > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                              > > > Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.19/1008 - Release
                                                              Date:
                                                              > 9/14/07
                                                              > > 8:59 AM
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >
                                                              Hi Dave,
                                                              Let me start by saying that the bees for sure know much more than we
                                                              do!
                                                              You have 13 X 10 inch volume at 35 bars long and 17 bars in use.
                                                              Another beek has 14 (probably 13 in use) X 9 inches deep with a total
                                                              of 24 bars all full with a brood nest and honey storage area. I have
                                                              23 X 16 on 12 bars! All are working like mad just at different times
                                                              depending on when the fall flow starts in your area. We are at the
                                                              height of it here right now. My bees get to fly between 10 am and 3
                                                              pm.
                                                              Without doing the math (which is really not necessary any way) I
                                                              think the 3 above listed volumes are pretty close, Differences in our
                                                              regions dictate timing of what the bees are doing.
                                                              If you want you can add feed but do not be surprised if they do not
                                                              take it when there is a flow on. Make sure if you do feed you keep it
                                                              fresh no old stuff left in the hive.
                                                              What I would do: I would watch them closely and look for the switch
                                                              in focus, I.E. If they are rearing a large amount of brood they may
                                                              have not changed focus to over wintering yet. You are looking for
                                                              evidence of brood nest cleaning most likely you will see them
                                                              carrying out larvae and debris. Next they will start to back fill the
                                                              brood nest with stores and you will see a lot of pollen coming in.
                                                              If your main concern is winter survival add some feed and watch
                                                              to insure they are taking it. FEED INSIDE the hive to avoid
                                                              attracting robbers and reduce the entrance by half for now.
                                                              If your main concern is self sustaining bees then do nothing and
                                                              hope for the best. Right now they look like they are on track with
                                                              others I have spoke with except for timing which is environmentally
                                                              controlled.
                                                              On another note it would be in your best interest to keep a record
                                                              of daily temps and what the bees are doing so you have something to
                                                              compare to next season. Seeing trends will help you identify the
                                                              environmental factors associated with the changes in colony focus.
                                                              Within a couple of season you will be able to predict things like
                                                              swarm intentions, if there are enough stores, colony health/needs,
                                                              etc. Without records you will continue to shoot into the dark and
                                                              guess what to do next.
                                                            • David Croteau
                                                              I m seeing evidence of nest cleaning, will not feed. Think they will winter OK. Let you know in Spring. My records are in calendars, (yearly reminders ) .
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Sep 15, 2007
                                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                                I'm seeing evidence of nest cleaning, will not feed.
                                                                Think they will winter OK.
                                                                Let you know in Spring.
                                                                My records are in calendars, (yearly reminders ) .
                                                                Thanks for your input very helpful .
                                                                Dave
                                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.