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Planning to start TBH

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  • karonadams
    Hi folks. I have been lurking for a while and have finally gotten back to bees! Hooray! I am very small scale. I had 4 hives in my suburban Atlanta home
    Message 1 of 3 , May 24, 2013
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      Hi folks. I have been lurking for a while and have finally gotten back to bees! Hooray! I am very small scale. I had 4 hives in my suburban Atlanta home several years ago and am coming back after being without bees for 10 years. Hive Beetles are a total surprise to me<G>

      Anyway, I have two Langs in the yard, just now, building and starting from foundation. I was just beginning to see TBH about the time I had to leave Beekeeping. I knew little about them and am trying to pick this up. I have heard it is a bit more management than a lang is. but, in the long run, can be more efficient as well as cost effective.

      I was doing some reading and I plan to build a couple of TBH to add to the current Bee yard w/the two langs.

      Have you guys heard about the Golden Mean TBH? I like the idea and the concept. makes things very easy, so far as building a hive as well as the advantage of using the same top bars as you can with Lang.

      Have any of you used the Golden Mean?

      I am also wondering, since, on average, I am reading that average cell size is smaller with TBH, does that mean that, as a result of the smaller cell, hence smaller bees, does that mean hatching and pupate time is shorter? seems like if it was, that would help discourage mites since the bees aren't in the cell for as long. Has anyone seen that correlation?

      Thanks! I look forward to being more active in the group.

      Karon
    • jarvisbeeme
      Hi Karon, Welcome back! I also had a long hiatus and am back at beeking for about a year now. My first TBH was a golden mean hive - given to me. I used it for
      Message 2 of 3 , May 25, 2013
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        Hi Karon,
        Welcome back!

        I also had a long hiatus and am back at beeking for about a year now. My first TBH was a golden mean hive - given to me. I used it for a while but after the bees didn't survive the winter (not a function of the hive), I gave it away. The GM was a solid hive; a little pricey,IMHO. I want all my hive parts to be interchangeable and the GM bars were too long to fit into my other 4 homemade TopBar hives.

        Check out Michael Bush' website, bushfarms.com. He has a compelling treatise for regressing comb cell size with resulting varroa control. TBHs don't automatically result in smaller cell size - but since many (most?) TBH beeks don't use foundation, there is a gradual regression in cell size if the larger cell comb is culled and the bees make new comb each egg cycle. Regression is hastened if small cell (4.9mm) foundation is used or mixed in. I don't use foundation in my hives but I'm trying to regress cell size by culling hatched combs ASAP (moving them to the back of the brood nest & inserting empty bars in their stead). Confirm my info since my experience is limited. I'm reading and learning and plan outreach projects w other TBH beeks in San Diego. Anyone?

        Michael Bush also has some plans for a top bar hive in his book (and website I think) that I've used with great success. I had all the boards cut at home depot and put it together myself without needing many tools. Although, I greatly appreciated that cordless drill!

        :) mebeejarvis

        --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "karonadams" <karon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi folks. I have been lurking for a while and have finally gotten back to bees! Hooray! I am very small scale. I had 4 hives in my suburban Atlanta home several years ago and am coming back after being without bees for 10 years. Hive Beetles are a total surprise to me<G>
        >
        > Anyway, I have two Langs in the yard, just now, building and starting from foundation. I was just beginning to see TBH about the time I had to leave Beekeeping. I knew little about them and am trying to pick this up. I have heard it is a bit more management than a lang is. but, in the long run, can be more efficient as well as cost effective.
        >
        > I was doing some reading and I plan to build a couple of TBH to add to the current Bee yard w/the two langs.
        >
        > Have you guys heard about the Golden Mean TBH? I like the idea and the concept. makes things very easy, so far as building a hive as well as the advantage of using the same top bars as you can with Lang.
        >
        > Have any of you used the Golden Mean?
        >
        > I am also wondering, since, on average, I am reading that average cell size is smaller with TBH, does that mean that, as a result of the smaller cell, hence smaller bees, does that mean hatching and pupate time is shorter? seems like if it was, that would help discourage mites since the bees aren't in the cell for as long. Has anyone seen that correlation?
        >
        > Thanks! I look forward to being more active in the group.
        >
        > Karon
        >
      • karon
        I have had a chance to glance over that site. And I cannot be absolutely certain I am using the hive that is being SOLD as a Golden Mean Hive. I Heard the term
        Message 3 of 3 , May 26, 2013
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          I have had a chance to glance over that site. And I cannot be absolutely
          certain I am using the hive that is being SOLD as a Golden Mean Hive. I
          Heard the term and did some calculations and realized that 1x12 and 1x5
          would make excellent KTBH and would correspond the golden mean.



          I cannot swear that I am onto the same aspect of the golden ratio as is
          being advertised. But, as a PHI fan, this is where I would go using the
          Golden Ratio and in this design, if I cannot or do not want to buy TBH bars,
          ordinary Lang bars will fit, just fine. What I may do is get a wax cord and
          run it in the depression in those bars. They'll fit just fine.



          When I mention Golden Ratio in relation to this, a 1x6 as a baseboard, with
          1x12 attached will give me slightly over 5 inches across the bottom. A
          1x12x6 can be cut into quarters. Two quarters for the side boards and the
          other two for followers. If you spread the sides to the corners of the end
          boards at the top, the distance between the top edges is a little over 17
          inches which fits the Lang bars perfectly.



          Sounds like you had yours put together exactly as I plan to do mine. Just a
          few cuts at Home Depot and the things will need nothing other than wood
          screws. I don't plan to use foundation. INHO, we CAN spend a fortune on
          specialized Top Bar Hives and special bars for them but, seems to me, one of
          the main points of this type of beekeeping is to control expense. I really
          LOVE the idea of being able to put together a hive with all the room I'll
          ever need for honey production and have it cost even less than I spent to
          start with the brood chamber and still ion need of supers. I like being able
          to keep more bees for less money. Call me cheap (though, I prefer frugal<G>)



          I am hoping to populate these hives with swarms. I have my name out to local
          folks hoping for a swarm call. Then again, I may go ahead and buy a package
          to start one of them.



          Karon Adams

          Accredited Jewelry Professional (GIA)

          You can send a Rosary to a soldier!

          www.facebook.com/MilitaryRosary

          www.YellowRibbonRosaries.com



          From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          jarvisbeeme
          Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 2:30 PM
          To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TopHive] Re: Planning to start TBH






          Hi Karon,
          Welcome back!

          I also had a long hiatus and am back at beeking for about a year now. My
          first TBH was a golden mean hive - given to me. I used it for a while but
          after the bees didn't survive the winter (not a function of the hive), I
          gave it away. The GM was a solid hive; a little pricey,IMHO. I want all my
          hive parts to be interchangeable and the GM bars were too long to fit into
          my other 4 homemade TopBar hives.

          Check out Michael Bush' website, bushfarms.com. He has a compelling treatise
          for regressing comb cell size with resulting varroa control. TBHs don't
          automatically result in smaller cell size - but since many (most?) TBH beeks
          don't use foundation, there is a gradual regression in cell size if the
          larger cell comb is culled and the bees make new comb each egg cycle.
          Regression is hastened if small cell (4.9mm) foundation is used or mixed in.
          I don't use foundation in my hives but I'm trying to regress cell size by
          culling hatched combs ASAP (moving them to the back of the brood nest &
          inserting empty bars in their stead). Confirm my info since my experience is
          limited. I'm reading and learning and plan outreach projects w other TBH
          beeks in San Diego. Anyone?

          Michael Bush also has some plans for a top bar hive in his book (and website
          I think) that I've used with great success. I had all the boards cut at home
          depot and put it together myself without needing many tools. Although, I
          greatly appreciated that cordless drill!

          :) mebeejarvis

          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TopHive%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          "karonadams" <karon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi folks. I have been lurking for a while and have finally gotten back to
          bees! Hooray! I am very small scale. I had 4 hives in my suburban Atlanta
          home several years ago and am coming back after being without bees for 10
          years. Hive Beetles are a total surprise to me<G>
          >
          > Anyway, I have two Langs in the yard, just now, building and starting from
          foundation. I was just beginning to see TBH about the time I had to leave
          Beekeeping. I knew little about them and am trying to pick this up. I have
          heard it is a bit more management than a lang is. but, in the long run, can
          be more efficient as well as cost effective.
          >
          > I was doing some reading and I plan to build a couple of TBH to add to the
          current Bee yard w/the two langs.
          >
          > Have you guys heard about the Golden Mean TBH? I like the idea and the
          concept. makes things very easy, so far as building a hive as well as the
          advantage of using the same top bars as you can with Lang.
          >
          > Have any of you used the Golden Mean?
          >
          > I am also wondering, since, on average, I am reading that average cell
          size is smaller with TBH, does that mean that, as a result of the smaller
          cell, hence smaller bees, does that mean hatching and pupate time is
          shorter? seems like if it was, that would help discourage mites since the
          bees aren't in the cell for as long. Has anyone seen that correlation?
          >
          > Thanks! I look forward to being more active in the group.
          >
          > Karon
          >





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