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Re: [TopHive] TBH Bottom Design?

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  • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
    ... 2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it. 3 Screen floor only. thanks in advance, Tom Warren Pleasant Hill, OR PS Did I mention
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 7 11:28 AM
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      >1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
      2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
      3 Screen floor only.
      thanks in advance,
      Tom Warren
      Pleasant Hill, OR
      PS Did I mention it rains alot here?

      If you design the front or rear with a hinged section 1-3" tall,
      you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in
      just above that when you want to close things for winter.
      BillSF9c
    • Gold Star Honeybees
      #2 is what I m going with on the Gold Star top bar hive kit design with the exception that it doesn t slide - it just installs - on and off - mostly for
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 7 12:58 PM
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        #2 is what I'm going with on the Gold Star top bar hive "kit" design with
        the exception that it doesn't slide - it just installs - on and off - mostly
        for wintering purposes.

        I'm in Maine - we don't ever get 100+ degrees! LOL. Thought right now we
        wish we could!



        These kits will be available within the next two weeks! (Do not count on
        the pix that are on my website today for an accurate portrayal - that's last
        year's model!)



        -- Christy Hemenway

        GOLD STAR HONEYBEES

        "It's not about the honey, Honey - it's about the Bees!"

        207-449-1121

        www.goldstarhoneybees.com <http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/>

        Some great bee sites: www.biobees.com <http://www.biobees.com/> , and
        www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm, and www.beeguardian.org
        <http://www.beeguardian.org/>



        "'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each
        believes his own." --Alexander Pope

        _____

        From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        Tom Warren
        Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:28 PM
        To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TopHive] TBH Bottom Design?



        Hi all,

        I'm completing 4 TBHs this weekend. (2 for me, 2 for sale/giveaway) I'm at
        the stage where I need to decide about the construction of the bottoms of
        the hives. Here are my choices:

        1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
        2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
        3 Screen floor only.

        I'm inclined to go with choice #1 -- including 1/8" mesh screen just above
        the bottom for mites and beetle protection.

        Also, any ideas about ventilation for each style?

        I'm in the Willamette Valley (Oregon) where we get 100+ summer temps and
        winters usually at or below freezing, and rain rain rain.

        thanks in advance,
        Tom Warren
        Pleasant Hill, OR

        PS Did I mention it rains alot here?





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tom Warren
        Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom design. The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with removable
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 8 11:58 AM
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          Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom design.

          The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with removable bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me, by prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.

          So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and BillSF9c's ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid bottom board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the screen or secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the degree of permanence required.

          thanks alot!

          Tom Warren
          Pleasant Hill, OR

          PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built some extra TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me offlist, okay?
        • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
          ... design. ... removable bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me, by prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 9 11:44 AM
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            >Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom
            design.

            >The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with
            removable
            bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me,
            by
            prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.

            If ypou want to get a lil kinky, adapt a version of a Warre' for the
            top, the part
            called a quilt box. They are good in some cases for warmth & moisture
            handling.

            >So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and
            BillSF9c's
            ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid
            bottom
            board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the
            screen or
            secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the
            degree of
            permanence required.

            Wow... My name along side Chritsy's.. Noone say anything. I want to
            bask in
            the moment.

            thanks alot!
            Tom Warren
            Pleasant Hill, OR

            >PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built
            some extra
            TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me
            offlist,
            okay?

            Tom, tell me of the plywood you used, & how you sealed the edges...
            Marine? Marine resin?
            BillSF9c
          • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
            Sometimes called, Overkill Bill, I have an combo option. I offered the idea of the screen being fixed and a slider above that, inside. Christy offered a bottom
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 9 12:29 PM
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              Sometimes called, Overkill Bill, I have an combo option.
              I offered the idea of the screen being fixed and a slider above that,
              inside. Christy offered a bottom with fixed screen above that.
              (Was Christys, hinged? Think so... If not, there's a thought.)

              The slider can also serve to be a food or supplement tray, sliding in,
              preserving most warmth by almost non-opening of the hive. The
              downside is that what you add is limited to the width of the slider,
              which is not much in a trapezoidal.

              The upside is tghat the slider can be just that, or can be a frame
              & screen, or a second slider above the first is doable too.

              Some ideas I am letting go of as I have largely left the TB
              Trapezoidal for work on a series of Warre' s. And as sexy as
              a traezoidal is, I am seeing too much to refute the need for
              the shape, or the purported benefit.

              BillSF9c

              >>1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
              2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
              3 Screen floor only.
              thanks in advance,
              Tom Warren
              Pleasant Hill, OR
              PS Did I mention it rains alot here?

              >If you design the front or rear with a hinged section 1-3" tall,
              you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in
              just above that when you want to close things for winter.
              BillSF9c
            • Gold Star Honeybees
              Bill said: ---- Wow... My name along side Christy s.. Noone say anything. I want to bask in the moment. Christy says: ----- Ummmm, was it good for you,
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 9 1:26 PM
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                Bill said: ---->Wow... My name along side Christy's.. Noone say anything.
                I want to
                bask in the moment.



                Christy says: ----->Ummmm, was it good for you, Bill??? LOL. You never
                told me you were kinky!!!



                Got any bees yet?



                -- Christy Hemenway

                GOLD STAR HONEYBEES

                "It's not about the honey, Honey - it's about the Bees!"

                207-449-1121

                www.goldstarhoneybees.com <http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/>

                Some great bee sites: www.biobees.com <http://www.biobees.com/> , and
                www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm, and www.beeguardian.org
                <http://www.beeguardian.org/>



                "'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each
                believes his own." --Alexander Pope

                _____

                From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                OOWONBS@...
                Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:44 PM
                To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [TopHive] TBH Bottom Design?



                >Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom
                design.

                >The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with
                removable
                bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me,
                by
                prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.

                If ypou want to get a lil kinky, adapt a version of a Warre' for the
                top, the part
                called a quilt box. They are good in some cases for warmth & moisture
                handling.

                >So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and
                BillSF9c's
                ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid
                bottom
                board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the
                screen or
                secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the
                degree of
                permanence required.

                Wow... My name along side Chritsy's.. Noone say anything. I want to
                bask in
                the moment.

                thanks alot!
                Tom Warren
                Pleasant Hill, OR

                >PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built
                some extra
                TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me
                offlist,
                okay?

                Tom, tell me of the plywood you used, & how you sealed the edges...
                Marine? Marine resin?
                BillSF9c





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tom Warren
                ... Yeah, Bill, I share your concerns about TBH trapezoidal design. I was interested in Warre` hives too, but chose to do the horizontals this time around.
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 9 3:30 PM
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                  --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, OOWONBS@... wrote:

                  > If ypou want to get a lil kinky, adapt a version of a Warre' for the
                  > top, the part
                  > called a quilt box. They are good in some cases for warmth & moisture
                  > handling.

                  Yeah, Bill, I share your concerns about TBH trapezoidal design. I was
                  interested in Warre` hives too, but chose to do the horizontals this
                  time around. Only a couple of other people in the area are working with
                  them. A member of our Beekeepers Assoc <http://www.lcbaor.org/main.htm>
                  discovered Warre`s about the time I began looking into TBHs. I'm kind of
                  following his progress and waiting to reap the benefits of the lessons
                  he learns this year. There are a couple of folks online showing some
                  TBHs with quilt box type roofs, including thick styro sheets filling the
                  voids. I got all this on my "to do" list. <g>

                  > Tom, tell me of the plywood you used, & how you sealed the edges...
                  > Marine? Marine resin?
                  > BillSF9c

                  Bill, nothing very special. Here in the PAC NW there are small and
                  medium-sized mills everywhere producing plywood locally. (Sadly they are
                  rapidly disappearing in their own Colony Collapse Disorder) If one is
                  patient, it's easy to pick up "factory seconds" now and then. I got a
                  stack of 3/4" 4X8+ 'shop' plywood that is cosmetically defective. The
                  layers are bit too dense (good) but the resin or glue is an older type
                  of aliphatic compound, I think. It's great stuff, and not really bee
                  un-friendly, but I suppose there are some folks who would disapprove.

                  As soon as it quits raining for a bit, I'm gonna paint the hives --
                  including edges and exposed areas -- with left over acrylic latex
                  exterior paint. I'm not willing to go the wax and linseed oil coatings
                  route yet.

                  best,
                  Tom Warren
                  Pleasant Hill, OR
                • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
                  ... you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in just above that when you want to close things for winter. BillSF9c Silly me. I forgot. A hinge
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 9 3:58 PM
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                    >If you design the front or rear with a hinged section 1-3" tall,
                    you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in
                    just above that when you want to close things for winter.
                    BillSF9c

                    Silly me. I forgot. A hinge is not required. The end of the tray
                    can be the actual rear of the hive, or, at least the bottom 2"
                    or so of it. This means that ~ 2" is the max height of whatever
                    you slip in, (if anything.) It means with a trapezodal, you'll
                    need to have a table saw or be good with your hands, so
                    the tray has a matching angle. There are no slots to cut.
                    The concept is simplicity. The screen would be on the bottom.

                    This offers no tray to remove to catch mites that fall
                    through a screen.

                    BillSF9c
                  • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
                    ... never told me you were kinky!!! Coming from SillyCon Valley, I went there that way, and returned the same. ... Alas, 3 more sure things went awry in this
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 10 12:58 PM
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                      >Christy says: ----->Ummmm, was it good for you, Bill??? LOL. You
                      never
                      told me you were kinky!!!

                      Coming from SillyCon Valley, I went there that way, and returned the
                      same.

                      >Got any bees yet?

                      Alas, 3 more "sure things" went awry in this economy, as did orders
                      I did not seek, but got, so I invested in better tools due to the volume
                      and time it would save, then 1 by 1 everyone backed out, saying,
                      "Next year," or you gave me such confidence, I splurged on a table
                      saw, drill press, etc etc, and hope you'll tell me how to use it. ;>)

                      BillSF9c

                      -- Christy Hemenway
                      207-449-1121
                      www.goldstarhoneybees.com <http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/>

                      "'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each
                      believes his own." --Alexander Pope
                    • Marty Hardison
                      Hi Tom, I have been following the discussion about screened bottom options. I have not been happy with the sliding bottom boards that I have built to date.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 10 4:12 PM
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                        Hi Tom,
                        I have been following the discussion about screened bottom options. I have not been happy with the sliding bottom boards that I have built to date. So I devised a reversible bottom stand for my screened bottom hives. Here in Colorado I can't overwinter my bees in a hive with a drop space under the screen. So I reverse the stand. Open for summer and closed for winter. I posted some pictures in the Photo section of this website. My album bears my name - Marty Hardison. Take a look if you have not already engineered your screened bottom hive.

                        Marty



                        --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Warren" <tomzbox@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom design.
                        >
                        > The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with removable bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me, by prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.
                        >
                        > So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and BillSF9c's ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid bottom board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the screen or secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the degree of permanence required.
                        >
                        > thanks alot!
                        >
                        > Tom Warren
                        > Pleasant Hill, OR
                        >
                        > PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built some extra TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me offlist, okay?
                        >
                      • Tom Warren
                        ... Murphy s Law, Marty. I found your pics just after I completed my first set of TBHs on Monday. I think I m okay. The screen is tacked to the hive bottom
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 10 5:21 PM
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                          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Marty Hardison" <topbarbeehives@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Tom,
                          > I have been following the discussion about screened bottom options. I have not been happy with the sliding bottom boards that I have built to date. So I devised a reversible bottom stand for my screened bottom hives. Here in Colorado I can't overwinter my bees in a hive with a drop space under the screen. So I reverse the stand. Open for summer and closed for winter. I posted some pictures in the Photo section of this website. My album bears my name - Marty Hardison. Take a look if you have not already engineered your screened bottom hive.
                          >
                          > Marty

                          Murphy's Law, Marty. I found your pics just after I completed my first set of TBHs on Monday. <g>

                          I think I'm okay. The screen is tacked to the hive bottom sides and ends. I can slide a thin board just over that through the entrance opening simply by taking out any entrance reducer I may use. I made some more solid bottom boards for winter, much like your design, only not so tall.

                          I've learned a lot already just going though this process. The next TBHs will incorporate what works from this year's trials. BTW, DeeLusby over on the Organic Beekeepers list advises against screens at all and opts for permanent bottom boards, but she's not clear on ventilation issues.

                          It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.

                          thanks so much for your ideas, Marty

                          tom
                        • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
                          ... slide a thin board just over that through the entrance opening simply by taking out any entrance reducer I may use. I made some more solid bottom boards
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 11 12:49 PM
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                            >The screen is tacked to the hive bottom sides and ends. I can
                            slide a thin board just over that through the entrance opening simply
                            by taking
                            out any entrance reducer I may use. I made some more solid bottom
                            boards for
                            winter, much like your design, only not so tall. <snipped>
                            tom

                            If you cut the bottom 1/2 - 2" off the rear,
                            and make that piece a part of the slide-in tray,
                            you get the drift of what I was trying to say.

                            This can allow for a feeder even if it is jar lids.
                            Heck, you could slip in a lizard heating pad or a
                            resister series attached to a battery or charger,
                            even hooked to a 35F thermostat..

                            You also are not bugging bees by being at the entrance.
                            And you may make the tray thicker.

                            You can still add another board of styrofoam or
                            etc to the btm exterior to block drafts.
                            BillSF9c
                          • Michael Vanecek
                            I have seen top-bar hives with no bottom at all, and no entrance. The open bottom becomes the entrance. The bees even keep the grass that tries to grow up
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 9, 2009
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                              I have seen top-bar hives with no bottom at all, and no "entrance." The
                              open bottom becomes the entrance. The bees even keep the grass that
                              tries to grow up into the hive pruned too. Of course, that makes the
                              brood/honey placement a bit harder to control - they'll often have brood
                              along many of the combs at the bottom, with the honey at the top and on
                              the sides. Still, it's an interesting concept. I'm sure a Lang or Warre
                              hive could use this as well. Not sure how that'd do up in the north tho.

                              Be well,
                              Mike

                              --
                              Zone 8, Texas
                              http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...



                              OOWONBS@... wrote:
                              >
                              > If you cut the bottom 1/2 - 2" off the rear,
                              > and make that piece a part of the slide-in tray,
                              > you get the drift of what I was trying to say.
                              >
                              > This can allow for a feeder even if it is jar lids.
                              > Heck, you could slip in a lizard heating pad or a
                              > resister series attached to a battery or charger,
                              > even hooked to a 35F thermostat..
                              >
                              > You also are not bugging bees by being at the entrance.
                              > And you may make the tray thicker.
                              >
                              > You can still add another board of styrofoam or
                              > etc to the btm exterior to block drafts.
                              > BillSF9c
                              >
                              >
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