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Re: [TopHive] TBH Bottom Design?

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  • P.H. Rankin Hansen
    Regardless of the climate, I d prefer option #2, followed by #3. I d prefer avoiding #1 if at all possible, even if it is easier to make. Why? Makes for
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 7, 2009
      Regardless of the climate, I'd prefer option #2, followed by #3. I'd
      prefer avoiding #1 if at all possible, even if it is easier to make.

      Why? Makes for healthier bees by improving ventilation and keeping
      humidity down. Also much of the debris will fall through the mesh, in
      stead of accumulating on the floor. This includes living mites that
      loose foothold on the bees, something that happens fairly often.

      Here in Denmark, I use screened bottoms exclusively. The only time I
      close the bottom, is when I treat for Varroa (using vapors from formic
      acid) and in late winter/early spring, when excessive humidity can rise
      from below, depending on the location of the hive.

      Ping.

      venlig hilsen / best regards / vy 73 de OZ4PH & 5P1H

      Peter H. Rankin Hansen
      Stjærvej 15, Storring
      DK-8464 Galten
      Danmark

      (+45) 7586 1688 / (+45) 2211 9611

      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war.



      Tom Warren skrev:
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I'm completing 4 TBHs this weekend. (2 for me, 2 for sale/giveaway) I'm at the stage where I need to decide about the construction of the bottoms of the hives. Here are my choices:
      >
      > 1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
      > 2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
      > 3 Screen floor only.
      >
      > I'm inclined to go with choice #1 -- including 1/8" mesh screen just above the bottom for mites and beetle protection.
      >
      > Also, any ideas about ventilation for each style?
      >
      > I'm in the Willamette Valley (Oregon) where we get 100+ summer temps and winters usually at or below freezing, and rain rain rain.
      >
      > thanks in advance,
      > Tom Warren
      > Pleasant Hill, OR
      >
      > PS Did I mention it rains alot here?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > The group archive and other pages can be accessed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TopHive
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
      ... 2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it. 3 Screen floor only. thanks in advance, Tom Warren Pleasant Hill, OR PS Did I mention
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 7, 2009
        >1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
        2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
        3 Screen floor only.
        thanks in advance,
        Tom Warren
        Pleasant Hill, OR
        PS Did I mention it rains alot here?

        If you design the front or rear with a hinged section 1-3" tall,
        you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in
        just above that when you want to close things for winter.
        BillSF9c
      • Gold Star Honeybees
        #2 is what I m going with on the Gold Star top bar hive kit design with the exception that it doesn t slide - it just installs - on and off - mostly for
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 7, 2009
          #2 is what I'm going with on the Gold Star top bar hive "kit" design with
          the exception that it doesn't slide - it just installs - on and off - mostly
          for wintering purposes.

          I'm in Maine - we don't ever get 100+ degrees! LOL. Thought right now we
          wish we could!



          These kits will be available within the next two weeks! (Do not count on
          the pix that are on my website today for an accurate portrayal - that's last
          year's model!)



          -- Christy Hemenway

          GOLD STAR HONEYBEES

          "It's not about the honey, Honey - it's about the Bees!"

          207-449-1121

          www.goldstarhoneybees.com <http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/>

          Some great bee sites: www.biobees.com <http://www.biobees.com/> , and
          www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm, and www.beeguardian.org
          <http://www.beeguardian.org/>



          "'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each
          believes his own." --Alexander Pope

          _____

          From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Tom Warren
          Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:28 PM
          To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TopHive] TBH Bottom Design?



          Hi all,

          I'm completing 4 TBHs this weekend. (2 for me, 2 for sale/giveaway) I'm at
          the stage where I need to decide about the construction of the bottoms of
          the hives. Here are my choices:

          1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
          2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
          3 Screen floor only.

          I'm inclined to go with choice #1 -- including 1/8" mesh screen just above
          the bottom for mites and beetle protection.

          Also, any ideas about ventilation for each style?

          I'm in the Willamette Valley (Oregon) where we get 100+ summer temps and
          winters usually at or below freezing, and rain rain rain.

          thanks in advance,
          Tom Warren
          Pleasant Hill, OR

          PS Did I mention it rains alot here?





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom Warren
          Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom design. The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with removable
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 8, 2009
            Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom design.

            The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with removable bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me, by prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.

            So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and BillSF9c's ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid bottom board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the screen or secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the degree of permanence required.

            thanks alot!

            Tom Warren
            Pleasant Hill, OR

            PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built some extra TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me offlist, okay?
          • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
            ... design. ... removable bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me, by prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 9, 2009
              >Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom
              design.

              >The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with
              removable
              bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me,
              by
              prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.

              If ypou want to get a lil kinky, adapt a version of a Warre' for the
              top, the part
              called a quilt box. They are good in some cases for warmth & moisture
              handling.

              >So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and
              BillSF9c's
              ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid
              bottom
              board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the
              screen or
              secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the
              degree of
              permanence required.

              Wow... My name along side Chritsy's.. Noone say anything. I want to
              bask in
              the moment.

              thanks alot!
              Tom Warren
              Pleasant Hill, OR

              >PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built
              some extra
              TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me
              offlist,
              okay?

              Tom, tell me of the plywood you used, & how you sealed the edges...
              Marine? Marine resin?
              BillSF9c
            • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
              Sometimes called, Overkill Bill, I have an combo option. I offered the idea of the screen being fixed and a slider above that, inside. Christy offered a bottom
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 9, 2009
                Sometimes called, Overkill Bill, I have an combo option.
                I offered the idea of the screen being fixed and a slider above that,
                inside. Christy offered a bottom with fixed screen above that.
                (Was Christys, hinged? Think so... If not, there's a thought.)

                The slider can also serve to be a food or supplement tray, sliding in,
                preserving most warmth by almost non-opening of the hive. The
                downside is that what you add is limited to the width of the slider,
                which is not much in a trapezoidal.

                The upside is tghat the slider can be just that, or can be a frame
                & screen, or a second slider above the first is doable too.

                Some ideas I am letting go of as I have largely left the TB
                Trapezoidal for work on a series of Warre' s. And as sexy as
                a traezoidal is, I am seeing too much to refute the need for
                the shape, or the purported benefit.

                BillSF9c

                >>1 Closed solid bottom board with (or without) screen floor above it.
                2 Removable (sliding) solid bottom board with screen floor above it.
                3 Screen floor only.
                thanks in advance,
                Tom Warren
                Pleasant Hill, OR
                PS Did I mention it rains alot here?

                >If you design the front or rear with a hinged section 1-3" tall,
                you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in
                just above that when you want to close things for winter.
                BillSF9c
              • Gold Star Honeybees
                Bill said: ---- Wow... My name along side Christy s.. Noone say anything. I want to bask in the moment. Christy says: ----- Ummmm, was it good for you,
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 9, 2009
                  Bill said: ---->Wow... My name along side Christy's.. Noone say anything.
                  I want to
                  bask in the moment.



                  Christy says: ----->Ummmm, was it good for you, Bill??? LOL. You never
                  told me you were kinky!!!



                  Got any bees yet?



                  -- Christy Hemenway

                  GOLD STAR HONEYBEES

                  "It's not about the honey, Honey - it's about the Bees!"

                  207-449-1121

                  www.goldstarhoneybees.com <http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/>

                  Some great bee sites: www.biobees.com <http://www.biobees.com/> , and
                  www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm, and www.beeguardian.org
                  <http://www.beeguardian.org/>



                  "'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each
                  believes his own." --Alexander Pope

                  _____

                  From: TopHive@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TopHive@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  OOWONBS@...
                  Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:44 PM
                  To: TopHive@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TopHive] TBH Bottom Design?



                  >Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom
                  design.

                  >The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with
                  removable
                  bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me,
                  by
                  prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.

                  If ypou want to get a lil kinky, adapt a version of a Warre' for the
                  top, the part
                  called a quilt box. They are good in some cases for warmth & moisture
                  handling.

                  >So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and
                  BillSF9c's
                  ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid
                  bottom
                  board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the
                  screen or
                  secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the
                  degree of
                  permanence required.

                  Wow... My name along side Chritsy's.. Noone say anything. I want to
                  bask in
                  the moment.

                  thanks alot!
                  Tom Warren
                  Pleasant Hill, OR

                  >PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built
                  some extra
                  TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me
                  offlist,
                  okay?

                  Tom, tell me of the plywood you used, & how you sealed the edges...
                  Marine? Marine resin?
                  BillSF9c





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tom Warren
                  ... Yeah, Bill, I share your concerns about TBH trapezoidal design. I was interested in Warre` hives too, but chose to do the horizontals this time around.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 9, 2009
                    --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, OOWONBS@... wrote:

                    > If ypou want to get a lil kinky, adapt a version of a Warre' for the
                    > top, the part
                    > called a quilt box. They are good in some cases for warmth & moisture
                    > handling.

                    Yeah, Bill, I share your concerns about TBH trapezoidal design. I was
                    interested in Warre` hives too, but chose to do the horizontals this
                    time around. Only a couple of other people in the area are working with
                    them. A member of our Beekeepers Assoc <http://www.lcbaor.org/main.htm>
                    discovered Warre`s about the time I began looking into TBHs. I'm kind of
                    following his progress and waiting to reap the benefits of the lessons
                    he learns this year. There are a couple of folks online showing some
                    TBHs with quilt box type roofs, including thick styro sheets filling the
                    voids. I got all this on my "to do" list. <g>

                    > Tom, tell me of the plywood you used, & how you sealed the edges...
                    > Marine? Marine resin?
                    > BillSF9c

                    Bill, nothing very special. Here in the PAC NW there are small and
                    medium-sized mills everywhere producing plywood locally. (Sadly they are
                    rapidly disappearing in their own Colony Collapse Disorder) If one is
                    patient, it's easy to pick up "factory seconds" now and then. I got a
                    stack of 3/4" 4X8+ 'shop' plywood that is cosmetically defective. The
                    layers are bit too dense (good) but the resin or glue is an older type
                    of aliphatic compound, I think. It's great stuff, and not really bee
                    un-friendly, but I suppose there are some folks who would disapprove.

                    As soon as it quits raining for a bit, I'm gonna paint the hives --
                    including edges and exposed areas -- with left over acrylic latex
                    exterior paint. I'm not willing to go the wax and linseed oil coatings
                    route yet.

                    best,
                    Tom Warren
                    Pleasant Hill, OR
                  • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
                    ... you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in just above that when you want to close things for winter. BillSF9c Silly me. I forgot. A hinge
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 9, 2009
                      >If you design the front or rear with a hinged section 1-3" tall,
                      you can use a screen full length, and slide a btm board in
                      just above that when you want to close things for winter.
                      BillSF9c

                      Silly me. I forgot. A hinge is not required. The end of the tray
                      can be the actual rear of the hive, or, at least the bottom 2"
                      or so of it. This means that ~ 2" is the max height of whatever
                      you slip in, (if anything.) It means with a trapezodal, you'll
                      need to have a table saw or be good with your hands, so
                      the tray has a matching angle. There are no slots to cut.
                      The concept is simplicity. The screen would be on the bottom.

                      This offers no tray to remove to catch mites that fall
                      through a screen.

                      BillSF9c
                    • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
                      ... never told me you were kinky!!! Coming from SillyCon Valley, I went there that way, and returned the same. ... Alas, 3 more sure things went awry in this
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 10, 2009
                        >Christy says: ----->Ummmm, was it good for you, Bill??? LOL. You
                        never
                        told me you were kinky!!!

                        Coming from SillyCon Valley, I went there that way, and returned the
                        same.

                        >Got any bees yet?

                        Alas, 3 more "sure things" went awry in this economy, as did orders
                        I did not seek, but got, so I invested in better tools due to the volume
                        and time it would save, then 1 by 1 everyone backed out, saying,
                        "Next year," or you gave me such confidence, I splurged on a table
                        saw, drill press, etc etc, and hope you'll tell me how to use it. ;>)

                        BillSF9c

                        -- Christy Hemenway
                        207-449-1121
                        www.goldstarhoneybees.com <http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/>

                        "'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each
                        believes his own." --Alexander Pope
                      • Marty Hardison
                        Hi Tom, I have been following the discussion about screened bottom options. I have not been happy with the sliding bottom boards that I have built to date.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 10, 2009
                          Hi Tom,
                          I have been following the discussion about screened bottom options. I have not been happy with the sliding bottom boards that I have built to date. So I devised a reversible bottom stand for my screened bottom hives. Here in Colorado I can't overwinter my bees in a hive with a drop space under the screen. So I reverse the stand. Open for summer and closed for winter. I posted some pictures in the Photo section of this website. My album bears my name - Marty Hardison. Take a look if you have not already engineered your screened bottom hive.

                          Marty



                          --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Warren" <tomzbox@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about TBH bottom design.
                          >
                          > The consensus seems to be that the #2 choice is best, i.e. screen with removable bottom board. Peter H. Rankin Hansen made good sense, it seems to me, by prioritizing ventilation and moisture removal as basic considerations.
                          >
                          > So I've gone with a design based upon both Christy Hemenway's and BillSF9c's ideas. I finished the hives with screen bottoms and a removable solid bottom board for winterization. I can either slide a thin board in over the screen or secure a heavier one to the underside of the hive, depending upon the degree of permanence required.
                          >
                          > thanks alot!
                          >
                          > Tom Warren
                          > Pleasant Hill, OR
                          >
                          > PS Since I had so much free plywood (and a great table saw), I built some extra TBHs; so anyone in my neck o' the woods who needs one, just email me offlist, okay?
                          >
                        • Tom Warren
                          ... Murphy s Law, Marty. I found your pics just after I completed my first set of TBHs on Monday. I think I m okay. The screen is tacked to the hive bottom
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 10, 2009
                            --- In TopHive@yahoogroups.com, "Marty Hardison" <topbarbeehives@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Tom,
                            > I have been following the discussion about screened bottom options. I have not been happy with the sliding bottom boards that I have built to date. So I devised a reversible bottom stand for my screened bottom hives. Here in Colorado I can't overwinter my bees in a hive with a drop space under the screen. So I reverse the stand. Open for summer and closed for winter. I posted some pictures in the Photo section of this website. My album bears my name - Marty Hardison. Take a look if you have not already engineered your screened bottom hive.
                            >
                            > Marty

                            Murphy's Law, Marty. I found your pics just after I completed my first set of TBHs on Monday. <g>

                            I think I'm okay. The screen is tacked to the hive bottom sides and ends. I can slide a thin board just over that through the entrance opening simply by taking out any entrance reducer I may use. I made some more solid bottom boards for winter, much like your design, only not so tall.

                            I've learned a lot already just going though this process. The next TBHs will incorporate what works from this year's trials. BTW, DeeLusby over on the Organic Beekeepers list advises against screens at all and opts for permanent bottom boards, but she's not clear on ventilation issues.

                            It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.

                            thanks so much for your ideas, Marty

                            tom
                          • OOWONBS@Netscape.net
                            ... slide a thin board just over that through the entrance opening simply by taking out any entrance reducer I may use. I made some more solid bottom boards
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 11, 2009
                              >The screen is tacked to the hive bottom sides and ends. I can
                              slide a thin board just over that through the entrance opening simply
                              by taking
                              out any entrance reducer I may use. I made some more solid bottom
                              boards for
                              winter, much like your design, only not so tall. <snipped>
                              tom

                              If you cut the bottom 1/2 - 2" off the rear,
                              and make that piece a part of the slide-in tray,
                              you get the drift of what I was trying to say.

                              This can allow for a feeder even if it is jar lids.
                              Heck, you could slip in a lizard heating pad or a
                              resister series attached to a battery or charger,
                              even hooked to a 35F thermostat..

                              You also are not bugging bees by being at the entrance.
                              And you may make the tray thicker.

                              You can still add another board of styrofoam or
                              etc to the btm exterior to block drafts.
                              BillSF9c
                            • Michael Vanecek
                              I have seen top-bar hives with no bottom at all, and no entrance. The open bottom becomes the entrance. The bees even keep the grass that tries to grow up
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 9, 2009
                                I have seen top-bar hives with no bottom at all, and no "entrance." The
                                open bottom becomes the entrance. The bees even keep the grass that
                                tries to grow up into the hive pruned too. Of course, that makes the
                                brood/honey placement a bit harder to control - they'll often have brood
                                along many of the combs at the bottom, with the honey at the top and on
                                the sides. Still, it's an interesting concept. I'm sure a Lang or Warre
                                hive could use this as well. Not sure how that'd do up in the north tho.

                                Be well,
                                Mike

                                --
                                Zone 8, Texas
                                http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...



                                OOWONBS@... wrote:
                                >
                                > If you cut the bottom 1/2 - 2" off the rear,
                                > and make that piece a part of the slide-in tray,
                                > you get the drift of what I was trying to say.
                                >
                                > This can allow for a feeder even if it is jar lids.
                                > Heck, you could slip in a lizard heating pad or a
                                > resister series attached to a battery or charger,
                                > even hooked to a 35F thermostat..
                                >
                                > You also are not bugging bees by being at the entrance.
                                > And you may make the tray thicker.
                                >
                                > You can still add another board of styrofoam or
                                > etc to the btm exterior to block drafts.
                                > BillSF9c
                                >
                                >
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