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Re: To itzsharon

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  • Anna <IdrilCelebrindal@aol.com>
    Merry, Homophobia is sick and evil. That s my opinion. Notice that I don t speak like I m making rules for the whole world to live by. Idril/Anna
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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      Merry,

      Homophobia is sick and evil. That's my opinion.

      Notice that I don't speak like I'm making rules for the whole world
      to live by.

      Idril/Anna
    • Kimberly <kim_loves_coffee@yahoo.com>
      ... I think that this remark kind of speaks for itself, and doesn t really need to be discussed. I hope that Merry will spend some time thinking about what the
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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        --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP
        <chinarose_mina@y...>" <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:
        > However! Homosexuality is sick...in fact it is evil. You might
        > throttle me for saying that. But it is true. I don't think any
        > culture of any kind should except this disgusting display against
        > the true order of things. I actually will applaud Lisa's reaction
        > to this sickening grossness because that is how all people in their
        > right minds should react to it.

        I think that this remark kind of speaks for itself, and doesn't
        really need to be discussed.

        I hope that Merry will spend some time thinking about what the
        word "evil" really means.

        -kim
      • Sharon <itzsharon@yahoo.com>
        ... I do, too. And here s another word she needs to think about: TOLERANCE. In the meantime, I m afraid I m going to have to put on my moderator s hat for a
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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          --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Kimberly
          <kim_loves_coffee@y...>" <kim_loves_coffee@y...> wrote:
          > I hope that Merry will spend some time thinking about what the
          > word "evil" really means.
          >
          > -kim

          I do, too. And here's another word she needs to think about:
          TOLERANCE.

          In the meantime, I'm afraid I'm going to have to put on my
          moderator's hat for a moment and ask for a moratorium on further
          discussion of this topic, while I sound out our listowner, Kenneth,
          about a few things.

          My personal feeling is that Merry is welcome to believe whatever she
          likes regarding homosexuality or anything else. But regardless of
          what her personal beliefs may be, I feel that certain kinds of
          comments are NOT appropriate in a forum like this, because they are
          hurtful and disrespectful of the rights of others.

          People come here to discuss Tolkien, not argue about religious
          beliefs (which is what I think this really boils down to, in the
          final analysis), and it is my feeling that anyone who wants to come
          here to talk about Tolkien should be treated with respect at all
          times, regardless of their personal beliefs on other subjects, their
          sexual orientation, and/or any other personal characteristics they
          may have.

          As a moderator of this group, I would like to offer my heartfelt
          apologies to anyone who may have been hurt by these comments. I
          deeply regret what has happened, and sincerely hope that it does not
          happen again. If I were the owner of this list, there are certain
          actions I would take right now. But since I'm not, I'm forwarding
          Merry's message to Kenneth to see how he thinks the situation should
          be handled.

          I'd better shut up now. I'm very angry and liable to say something I
          might regret. If I haven't already!

          Fimbrethil
        • JustKenneth <justkenneth@yahoo.com>
          Merry, These remarks are very inflammatory. I can t see how this group can possibly benefit from them. While you re welcome to your opinion, you are not
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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            Merry,

            These remarks are very inflammatory. I can't see how this group can
            possibly benefit from them.

            While you're welcome to your opinion, you are not welcome to share
            your opinion on this topic here. Please make certain that your
            future posts are ones which are less likely to cause offense.

            Thanks!

            Kenneth

            --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP
            <chinarose_mina@y...>" <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:

            > Here we go again! :) I know how the Japanese culture is, in fact
            I
            > love alot of anime and manga things that they make. I also
            understand
            > that they don't consider cartoons and comics in the way American
            > culture does and I also say they are free to do what they want. The
            > fans can make whatever fancomics they please. I don't mind. I can
            > just ignore it because I don't like it.
            > However! Homosexuality is . . .
          • John Almasi
            I think a little olerance is in order. After all, who cares what someone else does in their bedroom? John ...
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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              I think a little olerance is in order. After all, who
              cares what someone else does in their bedroom?

              John
              --- "DNP <chinarose_mina@...>"
              <chinarose_mina@...> wrote:
              > >So...basically, the people who produced this are
              > doing something
              > that
              > is considered completely acceptable in their
              > culture, and they'd
              > probably be quite surprised to learn that anyone
              > considers it "sick."
              > It may not be acceptable in *mainstream* American
              > culture, but to
              > those folks, it's completely unremarkable and
              > definitely not the
              > least bit shocking to see something like this in a
              > comic. They are
              > >not "sick." They're Japanese!
              >
              > Here we go again! :) I know how the Japanese
              > culture is, in fact I
              > love alot of anime and manga things that they make.
              > I also understand
              > that they don't consider cartoons and comics in the
              > way American
              > culture does and I also say they are free to do what
              > they want. The
              > fans can make whatever fancomics they please. I
              > don't mind. I can
              > just ignore it because I don't like it.
              > However! Homosexuality is sick...in fact it is
              > evil. You might
              > throttle me for saying that. But it is true. I don't
              > think any
              > culture of any kind should except this disgusting
              > display against the
              > true order of things. I actually will applaud Lisa's
              > reaction to this
              > sickening grossness because that is how all people
              > in their right
              > minds should react to it. But there is really
              > nothing we can do, and
              > those people are free to WRITE and DRAW those kind
              > of things if they
              > want. But of course I am not implying people should
              > have a right to
              > BE that way. They shouldn't. It is wrong. It is
              > evil. And we need
              > more people in this world who react like Lisa. There
              > are too few...
              >
              > Merry
              >
              >
              >


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            • Tripleleo60@cs.com
              In a message dated 1/31/03 1:00:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, ... You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine and my opinion is that there is
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                In a message dated 1/31/03 1:00:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, chinarose_mina@... writes:


                Homosexuality is sick...in fact it is evil.


                You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine and my opinion is that there is nothing wrong or evil about homosexuality. True evil is hurting other people unnecessarily. As long as no one gets hurt it's none of my business or yours what they do in private. I'll admit that I don't understand being attracted to other guys, but just because it's different from me doesn't make it wrong.

                I think perhaps you should have a bit more care about throwing around condemnations

                Sir Question of the Mark, K of T.

                Aure entuluva!
              • DNP <chinarose_mina@yahoo.com>
                I will not apologize to anyone for what I said, because what I said was right. I will not apologize for Truth. However, you are right that this is a Tolkien
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                  I will not apologize to anyone for what I said, because what I
                  said was right. I will not apologize for Truth. However, you are
                  right that this is a Tolkien group and we should stick to what it is
                  about. I don't mean offense, and I don't mean for people to want to
                  kick me out or anything. I definately do not mean for people to be
                  hurt from what I said. However, as I mentioned, I will not take back
                  what I said. If this causes even more strife then I will gladly
                  except any judgement the owner decides.

                  Meriadoc
                • JustKenneth <justkenneth@yahoo.com>
                  I m not asking you to apologize or deny your beliefs or take anything back. I m only asking that you not share your opinions on homosexuality in this group
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                    I'm not asking you to apologize or deny your beliefs or take anything
                    back.

                    I'm only asking that you not share your opinions on homosexuality in
                    this group again. That shouldn't be a problem since they're not
                    relevant to this group anyway. From your comments, I gather that you
                    understand that and agree to abide by that.

                    Thanks for understanding.

                    Kenneth

                    --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP
                    <chinarose_mina@y...>" <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:

                    > I will not apologize to anyone for what I said, because what I
                    > said was right. I will not apologize for Truth. However, you are
                    > right that this is a Tolkien group and we should stick to what it
                    is
                    > about. I don't mean offense, and I don't mean for people to want to
                    > kick me out or anything. I definately do not mean for people to be
                    > hurt from what I said. However, as I mentioned, I will not take
                    back
                    > what I said. If this causes even more strife then I will gladly
                    > except any judgement the owner decides.
                    >
                    > Meriadoc
                  • odalisque01 <odalisque01@yahoo.com>
                    Merry, Yours was a pretty sweeping statement that condemns a huge segment of the world s population, probably including a lot of people whom you really like
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                      Merry,

                      Yours was a pretty sweeping statement that condemns a huge segment of
                      the world's population, probably including a lot of people whom you
                      really like because you don't happen to be aware of their sexual
                      orientation. How would you feel if a person you loved and respected
                      and knew to be a good person--a friend or family member, or, hmmm,
                      let's say, a favorite actor--were suddenly revealed to you to be gay?
                      Would you really want to hate and reject that person as "sick" and
                      "evil" because of an attribute they did not choose and that harms no
                      one? As opposed to statements such as yours about "sickening
                      grossness" and "disgusting display against the true order," which are
                      truly hurtful--whether you intended that or not.

                      Christine


                      --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP <chinarose_mina@y...>"
                      <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:
                      > I will not apologize to anyone for what I said, because what I
                      > said was right. I will not apologize for Truth. However, you are
                      > right that this is a Tolkien group and we should stick to what it is
                      > about. I don't mean offense, and I don't mean for people to want to
                      > kick me out or anything. I definately do not mean for people to be
                      > hurt from what I said. However, as I mentioned, I will not take back
                      > what I said. If this causes even more strife then I will gladly
                      > except any judgement the owner decides.
                      >
                      > Meriadoc
                    • JustKenneth <justkenneth@yahoo.com>
                      I understand that many members may feel offended by Merry s comments and may want to respond to them, but it s really not going to do the group any good.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                        I understand that many members may feel offended by Merry's comments
                        and may want to respond to them, but it's really not going to do the
                        group any good.

                        Sharon has already asked for a moratorium on this subject. Let's
                        please respect that.

                        As it says on the group's homepage, if you have any questions or
                        concerns about this group, you can email me at TolkienDiscussions-
                        owner@yahoogroups.com. But address them to me in private email, not
                        in the group.

                        Oh, I may not be around much this weekend, so please be patient if I
                        don't reply right away.

                        Thanks!

                        Kenneth


                        --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "odalisque01
                        <odalisque01@y...>" <odalisque01@y...> wrote:
                        > Merry,
                        >
                        > Yours was a pretty sweeping statement that condemns a huge segment
                        of
                        > the world's population, probably including a lot of people whom you
                        > really like because you don't happen to be aware of their sexual
                        > orientation. How would you feel if a person you loved and respected
                        > and knew to be a good person--a friend or family member, or, hmmm,
                        > let's say, a favorite actor--were suddenly revealed to you to be
                        gay?
                        > Would you really want to hate and reject that person as "sick" and
                        > "evil" because of an attribute they did not choose and that harms no
                        > one? As opposed to statements such as yours about "sickening
                        > grossness" and "disgusting display against the true order," which
                        are
                        > truly hurtful--whether you intended that or not.
                        >
                        > Christine
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP
                        <chinarose_mina@y...>"
                        > <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:
                        > > I will not apologize to anyone for what I said, because what I
                        > > said was right. I will not apologize for Truth. However, you are
                        > > right that this is a Tolkien group and we should stick to what it
                        is
                        > > about. I don't mean offense, and I don't mean for people to want
                        to
                        > > kick me out or anything. I definately do not mean for people to
                        be
                        > > hurt from what I said. However, as I mentioned, I will not take
                        back
                        > > what I said. If this causes even more strife then I will gladly
                        > > except any judgement the owner decides.
                        > >
                        > > Meriadoc
                      • tobihlk@aol.com
                        you have your own opinion but who is to say what is right and what is wrong. what happenes if you find out that you were wrong the whole time. think about it
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                          you have your own opinion but who is to say what is right and what is wrong.  what happenes if you find out that you were wrong the whole time.  think about it before you say things like that.

                          debbie
                        • odalisque01 <odalisque01@yahoo.com>
                          You re right. My apologies for fanning the flame. On another topic (to anyone who might know): I really like the image on the front page, where s it from?
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                            You're right. My apologies for fanning the flame.

                            On another topic (to anyone who might know): I really like the image
                            on the front page, where's it from?

                            Christine


                            --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "JustKenneth
                            <justkenneth@y...>" <justkenneth@y...> wrote:
                            > I understand that many members may feel offended by Merry's comments
                            > and may want to respond to them, but it's really not going to do the
                            > group any good.
                            >
                            > Sharon has already asked for a moratorium on this subject. Let's
                            > please respect that.
                            >
                            > As it says on the group's homepage, if you have any questions or
                            > concerns about this group, you can email me at TolkienDiscussions-
                            > owner@yahoogroups.com But address them to me in private email, not
                            > in the group.
                            >
                            > Oh, I may not be around much this weekend, so please be patient if I
                            > don't reply right away.
                            >
                            > Thanks!
                            >
                            > Kenneth
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "odalisque01
                            > <odalisque01@y...>" <odalisque01@y...> wrote:
                            > > Merry,
                            > >
                            > > Yours was a pretty sweeping statement that condemns a huge segment
                            > of
                            > > the world's population, probably including a lot of people whom you
                            > > really like because you don't happen to be aware of their sexual
                            > > orientation. How would you feel if a person you loved and respected
                            > > and knew to be a good person--a friend or family member, or, hmmm,
                            > > let's say, a favorite actor--were suddenly revealed to you to be
                            > gay?
                            > > Would you really want to hate and reject that person as "sick" and
                            > > "evil" because of an attribute they did not choose and that harms no
                            > > one? As opposed to statements such as yours about "sickening
                            > > grossness" and "disgusting display against the true order," which
                            > are
                            > > truly hurtful--whether you intended that or not.
                            > >
                            > > Christine
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP
                            > <chinarose_mina@y...>"
                            > > <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:
                            > > > I will not apologize to anyone for what I said, because what I
                            > > > said was right. I will not apologize for Truth. However, you are
                            > > > right that this is a Tolkien group and we should stick to what it
                            > is
                            > > > about. I don't mean offense, and I don't mean for people to want
                            > to
                            > > > kick me out or anything. I definately do not mean for people to
                            > be
                            > > > hurt from what I said. However, as I mentioned, I will not take
                            > back
                            > > > what I said. If this causes even more strife then I will gladly
                            > > > except any judgement the owner decides.
                            > > >
                            > > > Meriadoc
                          • Jon <Johnjabberoo@aol.com>
                            Well, if I were sick and evil I might well throttle you, but as I am not either I will just feel sorry for you, ok? ... their
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 31, 2003
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                              Well, if I were sick and evil I might well throttle you, but as I am
                              not either I will just feel sorry for you, ok?

                              > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "DNP
                              > <chinarose_mina@y...>" <chinarose_mina@y...> wrote:
                              > > However! Homosexuality is sick...in fact it is evil. You might
                              > > throttle me for saying that. But it is true. I don't think any
                              > > culture of any kind should except this disgusting display against
                              > > the true order of things. I actually will applaud Lisa's reaction
                              > > to this sickening grossness because that is how all people in
                              their
                              > > right minds should react to it.
                              >
                            • Mark A Miles
                              ... Who wrote this? Oh, I m evil and a whole lot of other perfectly nice people are!? Fine, you may not like Slash, and personally I do find it loses its
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 1, 2003
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                                On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, SHADOW Kamen wrote:

                                > > However! Homosexuality is sick...in fact it is evil. You might
                                > >throttle me for saying that. But it is true.

                                Who wrote this? Oh, I'm evil and a whole lot of other perfectly nice
                                people are!? Fine, you may not like Slash, and personally I do find it
                                loses its appeal very quickly, but you cannot, in a swathe, condemn a
                                segment of society to being 'evil' simply because of what you assume they
                                get up to in the privacy of their own homes. Shame on you. Grow up!

                                -Mark
                              • SHADOW Kamen
                                ... Merry. ... SHADOWKamen. My list: http://www.onelist.com/community/Any_Discussion My booth: http://www.freevote.com/booth/Informitor My page:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 1, 2003
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                                  >Who wrote this?


                                  Merry.

                                  >Oh, I'm evil and a whole lot of other perfectly nice
                                  >people are!? Fine, you may not like Slash, and personally I do find it
                                  >loses its appeal very quickly, but you cannot, in a swathe, condemn a
                                  >segment of society to being 'evil' simply because of what you assume >they
                                  >get up to in the privacy of their own homes. Shame on you. Grow up!





                                  SHADOWKamen.
                                  My list:
                                  http://www.onelist.com/community/Any_Discussion
                                  My booth:
                                  http://www.freevote.com/booth/Informitor
                                  My page:
                                  http://random.kakuranger.net/

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