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Myth or History?

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  • B P
    Really great insight re the soldiers of WWI comparison with the hobbits of Bilbo s era. Now going out on a limb I must ask this forum a controversial question.
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 17, 2011
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      Really great insight re the soldiers of WWI comparison with the hobbits of Bilbo's era. Now going out on a limb I must ask this forum a controversial question.

      Is there any chance Tolkien got hold of some 'forbidden' histories of the old world and was allowed to present them as fiction and as his creation? As we know all cultures speak of the ancients and their era full of mysticism and magic. Yet mainstream academia claims it all to be false and mere myth and exaggeration. In my view the worlds of Tolkien and Howard (Conan's universe)in particular, read like authentic histories.

      Im not saying I believe this theory but both of these writers appear to have tapped into an alternate history of the world.

      --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Alan Wilson" <bruce_alan_wilson@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think this is the reflection of JRRT's WWI experience.
      >
      > His unit was the local militia from Greater Birmingham--factory workers, farmhands, bank clerks, college students, schoolteachers, shop assitants, office clerks; basically a cross-section of English society of the time, leaving out the nobility and landed gentry.
      >
      > Yet they were the descendants of Norman knights, Saxon berserkers, Viking raiders, Celtic warriors---just needing some spark to arouse that spirit.
      >
      > Bilbo was dragged kicking and screaming out of his nice, safe, narrow, snug, smug existance as a well-to-do middle-aged bachelor into a world full of things he could scarcely have imagined. Some of it was wonderful; some of it was horrible. All of it was exciting. And he found himself doing things that nobody--least of all himself!--would have thought he was capable of doing, and discovering that he was both braver and cleverer than anyone--including himself--though he was.
      >
      > Even in the very first serious adventure with the trolls, even though he made mistakes and nearly got everyone killed, he never paniced and lost his head.
      >
      > Bruce Alan Wilson
      > http://www.wvdemolay.org/
      > http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/Bruce_Alan_Wilson_2011
      >
      > The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart. ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
      >
    • Jack
      Tolkien did in fact claim to be translating from ancient Elvish manuscripts. This may be true, but of course he had written the Elvish himself! ... Jack ...
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 17, 2011
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        Tolkien did in fact claim to be translating from ancient Elvish manuscripts.

        This may be true, but of course he had written the Elvish himself!

        :o)
        Jack
        -----Original Message-----
        From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B P
        Sent: 17 September 2011 16:15
        To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Myth or History?

        Really great insight re the soldiers of WWI comparison with the hobbits of
        Bilbo's era. Now going out on a limb I must ask this forum a controversial
        question.

        Is there any chance Tolkien got hold of some 'forbidden' histories of the
        old world and was allowed to present them as fiction and as his creation? As
        we know all cultures speak of the ancients and their era full of mysticism
        and magic. Yet mainstream academia claims it all to be false and mere myth
        and exaggeration. In my view the worlds of Tolkien and Howard (Conan's
        universe)in particular, read like authentic histories.

        Im not saying I believe this theory but both of these writers appear to have
        tapped into an alternate history of the world.

        --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Alan Wilson"
        <bruce_alan_wilson@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think this is the reflection of JRRT's WWI experience.
        >
        > His unit was the local militia from Greater Birmingham--factory workers,
        farmhands, bank clerks, college students, schoolteachers, shop assitants,
        office clerks; basically a cross-section of English society of the time,
        leaving out the nobility and landed gentry.
        >
        > Yet they were the descendants of Norman knights, Saxon berserkers, Viking
        raiders, Celtic warriors---just needing some spark to arouse that spirit.
        >
        > Bilbo was dragged kicking and screaming out of his nice, safe, narrow,
        snug, smug existance as a well-to-do middle-aged bachelor into a world full
        of things he could scarcely have imagined. Some of it was wonderful; some
        of it was horrible. All of it was exciting. And he found himself doing
        things that nobody--least of all himself!--would have thought he was capable
        of doing, and discovering that he was both braver and cleverer than
        anyone--including himself--though he was.
        >
        > Even in the very first serious adventure with the trolls, even though he
        made mistakes and nearly got everyone killed, he never paniced and lost his
        head.
        >
        > Bruce Alan Wilson
        > http://www.wvdemolay.org/
        > http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/Bruce_Alan_Wilson_2011
        >
        > The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of
        transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in
        heart. ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
        >




        ------------------------------------

        Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
        of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
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      • B P
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 17, 2011
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          :-) Elvish and Illuvatar created by him yet teh archetypes are ancient.

          --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@...> wrote:
          >
          > Tolkien did in fact claim to be translating from ancient Elvish manuscripts.
          >
          > This may be true, but of course he had written the Elvish himself!
          >
          > :o)
          > Jack
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B P
          > Sent: 17 September 2011 16:15
          > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Myth or History?
          >
          > Really great insight re the soldiers of WWI comparison with the hobbits of
          > Bilbo's era. Now going out on a limb I must ask this forum a controversial
          > question.
          >
          > Is there any chance Tolkien got hold of some 'forbidden' histories of the
          > old world and was allowed to present them as fiction and as his creation? As
          > we know all cultures speak of the ancients and their era full of mysticism
          > and magic. Yet mainstream academia claims it all to be false and mere myth
          > and exaggeration. In my view the worlds of Tolkien and Howard (Conan's
          > universe)in particular, read like authentic histories.
          >
          > Im not saying I believe this theory but both of these writers appear to have
          > tapped into an alternate history of the world.
          >
          > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Alan Wilson"
          > <bruce_alan_wilson@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I think this is the reflection of JRRT's WWI experience.
          > >
          > > His unit was the local militia from Greater Birmingham--factory workers,
          > farmhands, bank clerks, college students, schoolteachers, shop assitants,
          > office clerks; basically a cross-section of English society of the time,
          > leaving out the nobility and landed gentry.
          > >
          > > Yet they were the descendants of Norman knights, Saxon berserkers, Viking
          > raiders, Celtic warriors---just needing some spark to arouse that spirit.
          > >
          > > Bilbo was dragged kicking and screaming out of his nice, safe, narrow,
          > snug, smug existance as a well-to-do middle-aged bachelor into a world full
          > of things he could scarcely have imagined. Some of it was wonderful; some
          > of it was horrible. All of it was exciting. And he found himself doing
          > things that nobody--least of all himself!--would have thought he was capable
          > of doing, and discovering that he was both braver and cleverer than
          > anyone--including himself--though he was.
          > >
          > > Even in the very first serious adventure with the trolls, even though he
          > made mistakes and nearly got everyone killed, he never paniced and lost his
          > head.
          > >
          > > Bruce Alan Wilson
          > > http://www.wvdemolay.org/
          > > http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/Bruce_Alan_Wilson_2011
          > >
          > > The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of
          > transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in
          > heart. ~Iris Murdoch, The Red and the Green
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
          > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
          > and Calendar sections.
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
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