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Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen

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  • Ronn! Blankenship
    At 08:59 PM Saturday 4/5/2008, Peter Chapman wrote: Because Vega is a hellish hot A0 spectral class, it has a much higher UV output than our sun. Therefore,
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 6, 2008
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      At 08:59 PM Saturday 4/5/2008, Peter Chapman wrote:

      Because Vega is a hellish hot A0 spectral class, it has a much higher UV output than our sun. Therefore, the system's inhabitants would need to be black (like Sauron) or covered in scales like a troll.


      Or perhaps their planet would have a more extensive O3 layer*, presuming it existed at all in orbit around a rather young star which is such a fast rotator.

      (Thank you.  I had decided to forebear in this instance although I frequently make a comeback to reference to that dietary choice based on the same homograph. ;))

      _____
      *Though not as extensive an O3 layer as would be needed to make a planet habitable around an O3 star . . .

      . . . ronn!  :)

    • John Davis
      Hi, I was not projecting my ethics onto Tolkien. His was a different world, and his were different ethics. (One could conjecture, and with very good grounds
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 7, 2008
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        Hi,

        I was not projecting my ethics onto Tolkien. His was a different world, and
        his were different ethics. (One could conjecture, and with very good grounds
        for so reasoning, about what he would feel today about the industrialisation
        of stock farming, but that is a different matter.)

        What I was saying, in response to L-o-H's comment of surprise that the
        Hobbits did not carry bows, was that they might not consider doing so
        necessary, that they would be sufficiently skilled in foraging not to need
        to kill.

        And yes, like most veg*ans, I use the term murder to describe the killing of
        any sentient being. And this should not sit uncomfortably with any reader of
        Tolkien, where the killing of elves - also not human - is considered murder.
        It is a way of requesting people to consider that killing an animal is the
        same moral crime as killing a person. That language is as intrinisically
        speciest as it is sexist is no reason not to challenge that fact, as
        feminists challenged the use of he as an impersonal prounoun.

        John
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bruce Alan Wilson" <bawilson@...>
        To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:23 PM
        Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The
        Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen


        > "Murder"? My dictionary defines "murder" as "the killing, unlawfully and
        > with
        > malice aforethought, of a human being."
        >
        > JRRT was not a vegetarian, nor were (many) of his characters. Read the
        > description of what Bilbo served the dwarves at the Unexpected Party;
        > Thorin
        > specifically requested ham for breakfast. The dwarves had no problem with
        > eating the rabbits that the eagles brought them. Etc.
        >
        > Now, if you are a vegetarian or a vegan yourself, that's fine; just don't
        > project your ethics on JRRT's writing, as the author did not shave them.
        >
        > Bruce Alan Wilson
        >
        > "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms
        > of
        > transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in
        > heart."--Iris Murdoch
        >
        >
      • Peter Chapman
        Forage for WHAT? There is nowhere that vegetables grow wild. There never was. And for a couple of pins :-) I d eat you too & gnaw your shins! Without any
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 7, 2008
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          Forage for WHAT? There is nowhere that vegetables grow wild. There never was.
           
          And for a couple of pins :-) I'd eat you too & gnaw your shins! Without any compunction at all. If you were to try to stop me eating meat - which you obviously would try, if you could. You have no respect for my views, therefore, yours deserve none.
           
          L-o-H
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:33 AM
          Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen

          Hi,

          I was not projecting my ethics onto Tolkien. His was a different world, and
          his were different ethics. (One could conjecture, and with very good grounds
          for so reasoning, about what he would feel today about the industrialisation
          of stock farming, but that is a different matter.)

          What I was saying, in response to L-o-H's comment of surprise that the
          Hobbits did not carry bows, was that they might not consider doing so
          necessary, that they would be sufficiently skilled in foraging not to need
          to kill.

          And yes, like most veg*ans, I use the term murder to describe the killing of
          any sentient being. And this should not sit uncomfortably with any reader of
          Tolkien, where the killing of elves - also not human - is considered murder.
          It is a way of requesting people to consider that killing an animal is the
          same moral crime as killing a person. That language is as intrinisically
          speciest as it is sexist is no reason not to challenge that fact, as
          feminists challenged the use of he as an impersonal prounoun.

          John
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bruce Alan Wilson" <bawilson@...>
          To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:23 PM
          Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The
          Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen


          > "Murder"?  My dictionary defines "murder" as "the killing, unlawfully and
          > with
          > malice aforethought, of a human being."
          >
          > JRRT was not a vegetarian, nor were (many) of his characters.  Read the
          > description of what Bilbo served the dwarves at the Unexpected Party;
          > Thorin
          > specifically requested ham for breakfast.  The dwarves had no problem with
          > eating the rabbits that the eagles brought them.  Etc.
          >
          > Now, if you are a vegetarian or a vegan yourself, that's fine; just don't
          > project your ethics on JRRT's writing, as the author did not shave them.
          >
          > Bruce Alan Wilson
          >
          > "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms
          > of
          > transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in
          > heart."--Iris Murdoch
          >
          >


          ------------------------------------

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        • Jack
          Play nicely, please Regards Jack Moderator _____ From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 7, 2008
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            Play nicely, please

            Regards
            Jack
            Moderator


            From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Peter Chapman
            Sent: 07 April 2008 14:34
            To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen

             

            Forage for WHAT? There is nowhere that vegetables grow wild. There never was.

             

            And for a couple of pins :-) I'd eat you too & gnaw your shins! Without any compunction at all. If you were to try to stop me eating meat - which you obviously would try, if you could. You have no respect for my views, therefore, yours deserve none.

             

            L-o-H

            ----- Original Message -----

            From: John Davis

            Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:33 AM

            Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions ] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen

             

            Hi,

            I was not projecting my ethics onto Tolkien. His was a different world, and
            his were different ethics. (One could conjecture, and with very good grounds
            for so reasoning, about what he would feel today about the industrialisation
            of stock farming, but that is a different matter.)

            What I was saying, in response to L-o-H's comment of surprise that the
            Hobbits did not carry bows, was that they might not consider doing so
            necessary, that they would be sufficiently skilled in foraging not to need
            to kill.

            And yes, like most veg*ans, I use the term murder to describe the killing of
            any sentient being. And this should not sit uncomfortably with any reader of
            Tolkien, where the killing of elves - also not human - is considered murder.
            It is a way of requesting people to consider that killing an animal is the
            same moral crime as killing a person. That language is as intrinisically
            speciest as it is sexist is no reason not to challenge that fact, as
            feminists challenged the use of he as an impersonal prounoun.

            John
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bruce Alan Wilson" <bawilson@citynet. net>
            To: <TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:23 PM
            Subject: [TolkienDiscussions ] Re: Traveling & gathering food - Was The
            Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen


            > "Murder"?  My dictionary defines "murder" as "the killing, unlawfully and
            > with
            > malice aforethought, of a human being."
            >
            > JRRT was not a vegetarian, nor were (many) of his characters.  Read the
            > description of what Bilbo served the dwarves at the Unexpected Party;
            > Thorin
            > specifically requested ham for breakfast.  The dwarves had no problem with
            > eating the rabbits that the eagles brought them.  Etc.
            >
            > Now, if you are a vegetarian or a vegan yourself, that's fine; just don't
            > project your ethics on JRRT's writing, as the author did not shave them.
            >
            > Bruce Alan Wilson
            >
            > "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms
            > of
            > transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in
            > heart."--Iris Murdoch
            >
            >


            ------------ --------- --------- ------

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