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Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Travelling & gathering food - Was The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary

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  • Peter Chapman
    With a .22 air rifle & a telescopic or poacher fly rod, and suitable dry/preserved food (rice, pasta, beans, flour, jerked meat & pemican, raisins), then yes,
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 4, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      With a .22 air rifle & a telescopic or poacher fly rod, and suitable dry/preserved food (rice, pasta, beans, flour, jerked meat & pemican, raisins), then yes, I could do this. Moorland streams are full of fish & if they only run to a small size, you can eat 4. Without the rifle, I could manage with a hawk, but not with a bow. I am not sufficiently skilled with one to hit anything smaller than a deer (as hunting with a bow is not legal in the UK). Hitting a (sitting) duck, rabbit or woodpigeon is about equivalent to a red or gold.
       
      Without either rifle or hawk I would find it difficult. It is easy enough to snare rabbits, but not whilst travelling. You have to wait around (sometimes several days) for results.
       
      I can hike 20 miles a day with 30-40lbs of kit. Or ride 60 mmiles a day.
       
      I could do this is spring, summer or autumn. In winter it would be difficult - fish are disinclined to feed & game seems scarce.
       
      I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It does say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.
       
      L-o-H
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Matt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:02 PM
      Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary

      How many of us can actually afford the luxury of such a walk? How
      would you pay the bills back home? How would you keep your job? Who
      among us has the skills to obtain food and water, start a fire without
      matches or a lighter, repair clothing and footwear, and so on. Who
      could cross a mountain pass in late summer and sustain themselves?

      I have a lot of outdoor experience, and I can tell you, I do not have
      the ability to survive such a journey.

      One thing that Tolkien does not spend much time on is how his
      characters survive. How do they get water, food, and fire?

      Matt West


      --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "John Davis" <mcxg46@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I wonder if, like meditation, walking long distances like that can
      be a way
      > of emptying the mind, of returning to a more animal-like state of
      awareness.
      >
      > Which might sound like new-age waffle, but walking every day
      certainly helps
      > clear my thoughts, and I can only imagine that walking all day every
      day
      > would do this but to a far greater degree.
      >
      > I suppose, also, that given both of their long lifespans, and the
      slower
      > pace of life in Middle-earth, a few month's walk would be less
      staggeringly
      > different to their usual existence than it is for us.
      >
      > John
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <steveseg@...>
      > To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:47 PM
      > Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
      Summary
      >
      >
      > > Matt wondered:
      > >
      > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
      > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
      > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
      > >
      > >
      > > Steve responds: The possability of such a conversation staggers
      the mind.
      > > Mine at least.
      > >
      > > Steve S.
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Matt <tea_party@...>
      > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:22 pm
      > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
      Summary
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > It is interesting that Bilbo has such a whimsical title for his
      > > memoirs, while Frodo gives his a much more pragmatic one.
      > >
      > > One wonders what inspired Tolkien to give Bilbo such horrendously
      > > awful relatives. Perhaps his own in-laws?? Bilbo's relatives always
      > > make me feel uneasy.
      > >
      > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
      > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
      > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
      > >
      > > Very few people undertake journeys of this distance on foot anymore.
      > > Certainly not for a purpose. Most commonly it is done for recreation.
      > > Makes you wonder what it would be like to set out on foot and walk
      > > halfway across a continent.
      > >
      > > Matt West
      > >
      > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, steveseg@ wrote:
      > >>
      > >> "The Last Stage" is appropriately enough the nineteenth and last
      > > chapter of "The Hobbit."?
      > >>
      > >> Bilbo and Gandalf had just crossed the Misty Mountains and were
      > > making their way to Rivendell, which they reach on May 1st. It is
      > > evening as they enter the Last (or First) Homely House and the elves
      > > greet the pair in song, as is their way. This particular song
      > > celebrates the death of Smaug and the cleansing of nearby lands.
      > >>
      > >> The hobbit and wizard are then met by a party of elves and taken to
      > > the house of Elrond where the pair regaled the household with the
      > > details of their adventures since leaving Rivendell on their way to
      > > Erebor.
      > >>
      > >> During the recital, Bilbo learned that Gandalf had been attending a
      > > council of white wizards (were there any declared black wizards?),
      > > which then drove the Necromancer from Dol Goldur in the south of
      > > Mirkwood. Perhaps Sauron was thought of as a Black Wizard though he
      > > was actually so much more. Possibly a couple of the Ring Wraiths were
      > > once wizards or sorcerers and still practiced their arts. As to the
      > > Blue Wizards, they might have turned to the shadow out in the lands to
      > > the east of Rhun...
      > >>
      > >> Bilbo falls asleep soon after the talk of dragons and wizards is
      > > ended and awakes in a bed during the night with elves paying him
      > > homage in song. The hobbit banters with the elves outside his window
      > > before returning to sleep. Within a week Bilbo and Gandalf take leave
      > > of Elrond and Rivendell, and begin the last stage of their journey to
      > > the Shire. A strong rain accompanies them as Gandalf states "There is
      > > a long road yet" and Bilbo responds "But it is the last road."
      > >>
      > >> Soon the Wild is left behind and Bilbo recalls many of the places
      > > along the road where he, Gandalf and the dwarves had journeyed on
      > > their way east. This includes the gold hoard of Tom, Bert and bill,
      > > the man-eating trolls. Wizard and hobbit split the treasure
      between them.
      > >>
      > >> As the month of June advanced, so too did the odd pair and finally
      > > the Shire is entered and soon thereafter, the Hill in Hobbiton. Bilbo
      > > is prompted to poetry at the sight, commenting on how the "roads go
      > > ever ever on," hinting at the horrors of the world and the warmth of
      > > home, in a cyclical journey.
      > >>
      > >> The door to Bilbo's home is reached, ending the cycle in its'
      > > entirety. To his shock, he finds Bag End overrun with locals removing
      > > the contents of his home which they purchased at auction. It takes
      > > years for Bilbo to finally resolve the legalities of the situation,
      > > with the Sackville-Bagginses proving to be the worst culprits
      involved.
      > >>
      > >> Aside from losing some spoons, the hobbit had also lost his
      > > respectable reputation, except for a few of the wilder Tooks, from
      > > that side. Bilbo is not concerned with the loss of either the spoons
      > > or reputation. Well, the spoons might have rankled him a bit more than
      > > he led on...
      > >>
      > >> Bilbo's sword and mail were put on display, at Bag End and a museum,
      > > respectively, though surely he retrieved the latter at some point. He
      > > took to writing more poetry and visiting elves, though they were
      > > probably in transit to Lune, preparatory to leaving Middle-Earth.
      > >>
      > >> The hobbit even took to writing his memoirs, "There and Back
      > > Again,?a Hobbit's Holiday." In fact, some years after his adventures
      > > in the Wild, while writing these memoirs, Gandalf shows up with Balin
      > > and the trio waste no time in catching up on events during and since
      > > their time together. Bard had rebuilt Dale and Lake-town still
      > > prospered as well, though the old Master had come to a bad end. The
      > > dwarves, men and elves of the region surrounding the Lonely Mountain
      > > were mutually allied and this becomes significant during the War of
      > > the Ring.
      > >>
      > >> The chapter and book end with Gandalf saying "You are a very fine
      > > person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you, but you are only quite
      > > a little fellow in a wide world after all!" The hobbit laughingly
      > > responds "Thank goodness" as he hands the wizard a tobacco-jar.
      > >>
      > >> Steve S.
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >



      ------------------------------------

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    • John Davis
      ... Perhaps they were skilled enough to be able to forage for food without resorting to murdering other beings? John ... From: Peter Chapman
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 4, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        >I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It
        >does say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.

        Perhaps they were skilled enough to be able to forage for food without
        resorting to murdering other beings?

        John

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Peter Chapman" <hawkworks@...>
        To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Travelling & gathering food - Was The
        Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


        With a .22 air rifle & a telescopic or poacher fly rod, and suitable
        dry/preserved food (rice, pasta, beans, flour, jerked meat & pemican,
        raisins), then yes, I could do this. Moorland streams are full of fish & if
        they only run to a small size, you can eat 4. Without the rifle, I could
        manage with a hawk, but not with a bow. I am not sufficiently skilled with
        one to hit anything smaller than a deer (as hunting with a bow is not legal
        in the UK). Hitting a (sitting) duck, rabbit or woodpigeon is about
        equivalent to a red or gold.

        Without either rifle or hawk I would find it difficult. It is easy enough to
        snare rabbits, but not whilst travelling. You have to wait around (sometimes
        several days) for results.

        I can hike 20 miles a day with 30-40lbs of kit. Or ride 60 mmiles a day.

        I could do this is spring, summer or autumn. In winter it would be
        difficult - fish are disinclined to feed & game seems scarce.

        I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It does
        say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.

        L-o-H
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Matt
        To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:02 PM
        Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


        How many of us can actually afford the luxury of such a walk? How
        would you pay the bills back home? How would you keep your job? Who
        among us has the skills to obtain food and water, start a fire without
        matches or a lighter, repair clothing and footwear, and so on. Who
        could cross a mountain pass in late summer and sustain themselves?

        I have a lot of outdoor experience, and I can tell you, I do not have
        the ability to survive such a journey.

        One thing that Tolkien does not spend much time on is how his
        characters survive. How do they get water, food, and fire?

        Matt West


        --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "John Davis" <mcxg46@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I wonder if, like meditation, walking long distances like that can
        be a way
        > of emptying the mind, of returning to a more animal-like state of
        awareness.
        >
        > Which might sound like new-age waffle, but walking every day
        certainly helps
        > clear my thoughts, and I can only imagine that walking all day every
        day
        > would do this but to a far greater degree.
        >
        > I suppose, also, that given both of their long lifespans, and the
        slower
        > pace of life in Middle-earth, a few month's walk would be less
        staggeringly
        > different to their usual existence than it is for us.
        >
        > John
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <steveseg@...>
        > To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:47 PM
        > Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
        Summary
        >
        >
        > > Matt wondered:
        > >
        > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
        > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
        > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
        > >
        > >
        > > Steve responds: The possability of such a conversation staggers
        the mind.
        > > Mine at least.
        > >
        > > Steve S.
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Matt <tea_party@...>
        > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:22 pm
        > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
        Summary
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It is interesting that Bilbo has such a whimsical title for his
        > > memoirs, while Frodo gives his a much more pragmatic one.
        > >
        > > One wonders what inspired Tolkien to give Bilbo such horrendously
        > > awful relatives. Perhaps his own in-laws?? Bilbo's relatives always
        > > make me feel uneasy.
        > >
        > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
        > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
        > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
        > >
        > > Very few people undertake journeys of this distance on foot anymore.
        > > Certainly not for a purpose. Most commonly it is done for recreation.
        > > Makes you wonder what it would be like to set out on foot and walk
        > > halfway across a continent.
        > >
        > > Matt West
        > >
        > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, steveseg@ wrote:
        > >>
        > >> "The Last Stage" is appropriately enough the nineteenth and last
        > > chapter of "The Hobbit."?
        > >>
        > >> Bilbo and Gandalf had just crossed the Misty Mountains and were
        > > making their way to Rivendell, which they reach on May 1st. It is
        > > evening as they enter the Last (or First) Homely House and the elves
        > > greet the pair in song, as is their way. This particular song
        > > celebrates the death of Smaug and the cleansing of nearby lands.
        > >>
        > >> The hobbit and wizard are then met by a party of elves and taken to
        > > the house of Elrond where the pair regaled the household with the
        > > details of their adventures since leaving Rivendell on their way to
        > > Erebor.
        > >>
        > >> During the recital, Bilbo learned that Gandalf had been attending a
        > > council of white wizards (were there any declared black wizards?),
        > > which then drove the Necromancer from Dol Goldur in the south of
        > > Mirkwood. Perhaps Sauron was thought of as a Black Wizard though he
        > > was actually so much more. Possibly a couple of the Ring Wraiths were
        > > once wizards or sorcerers and still practiced their arts. As to the
        > > Blue Wizards, they might have turned to the shadow out in the lands to
        > > the east of Rhun...
        > >>
        > >> Bilbo falls asleep soon after the talk of dragons and wizards is
        > > ended and awakes in a bed during the night with elves paying him
        > > homage in song. The hobbit banters with the elves outside his window
        > > before returning to sleep. Within a week Bilbo and Gandalf take leave
        > > of Elrond and Rivendell, and begin the last stage of their journey to
        > > the Shire. A strong rain accompanies them as Gandalf states "There is
        > > a long road yet" and Bilbo responds "But it is the last road."
        > >>
        > >> Soon the Wild is left behind and Bilbo recalls many of the places
        > > along the road where he, Gandalf and the dwarves had journeyed on
        > > their way east. This includes the gold hoard of Tom, Bert and bill,
        > > the man-eating trolls. Wizard and hobbit split the treasure
        between them.
        > >>
        > >> As the month of June advanced, so too did the odd pair and finally
        > > the Shire is entered and soon thereafter, the Hill in Hobbiton. Bilbo
        > > is prompted to poetry at the sight, commenting on how the "roads go
        > > ever ever on," hinting at the horrors of the world and the warmth of
        > > home, in a cyclical journey.
        > >>
        > >> The door to Bilbo's home is reached, ending the cycle in its'
        > > entirety. To his shock, he finds Bag End overrun with locals removing
        > > the contents of his home which they purchased at auction. It takes
        > > years for Bilbo to finally resolve the legalities of the situation,
        > > with the Sackville-Bagginses proving to be the worst culprits
        involved.
        > >>
        > >> Aside from losing some spoons, the hobbit had also lost his
        > > respectable reputation, except for a few of the wilder Tooks, from
        > > that side. Bilbo is not concerned with the loss of either the spoons
        > > or reputation. Well, the spoons might have rankled him a bit more than
        > > he led on...
        > >>
        > >> Bilbo's sword and mail were put on display, at Bag End and a museum,
        > > respectively, though surely he retrieved the latter at some point. He
        > > took to writing more poetry and visiting elves, though they were
        > > probably in transit to Lune, preparatory to leaving Middle-Earth.
        > >>
        > >> The hobbit even took to writing his memoirs, "There and Back
        > > Again,?a Hobbit's Holiday." In fact, some years after his adventures
        > > in the Wild, while writing these memoirs, Gandalf shows up with Balin
        > > and the trio waste no time in catching up on events during and since
        > > their time together. Bard had rebuilt Dale and Lake-town still
        > > prospered as well, though the old Master had come to a bad end. The
        > > dwarves, men and elves of the region surrounding the Lonely Mountain
        > > were mutually allied and this becomes significant during the War of
        > > the Ring.
        > >>
        > >> The chapter and book end with Gandalf saying "You are a very fine
        > > person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you, but you are only quite
        > > a little fellow in a wide world after all!" The hobbit laughingly
        > > responds "Thank goodness" as he hands the wizard a tobacco-jar.
        > >>
        > >> Steve S.
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >



        ------------------------------------

        Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
        of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
        and Calendar sections.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Peter Chapman
        Good luck in the wilderness. L-o-H ... From: John Davis To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 4, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Good luck in the wilderness.
          L-o-H
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 3:29 PM
          Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Travelling & gathering food - Was The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


          >I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It
          >does say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.

          Perhaps they were skilled enough to be able to forage for food without
          resorting to murdering other beings?

          John

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Peter Chapman" <hawkworks@...>
          To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:44 PM
          Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Travelling & gathering food - Was The
          Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


          With a .22 air rifle & a telescopic or poacher fly rod, and suitable
          dry/preserved food (rice, pasta, beans, flour, jerked meat & pemican,
          raisins), then yes, I could do this. Moorland streams are full of fish & if
          they only run to a small size, you can eat 4. Without the rifle, I could
          manage with a hawk, but not with a bow. I am not sufficiently skilled with
          one to hit anything smaller than a deer (as hunting with a bow is not legal
          in the UK). Hitting a (sitting) duck, rabbit or woodpigeon is about
          equivalent to a red or gold.

          Without either rifle or hawk I would find it difficult. It is easy enough to
          snare rabbits, but not whilst travelling. You have to wait around (sometimes
          several days) for results.

          I can hike 20 miles a day with 30-40lbs of kit. Or ride 60 mmiles a day.

          I could do this is spring, summer or autumn. In winter it would be
          difficult - fish are disinclined to feed & game seems scarce.

          I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It does
          say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.

          L-o-H
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Matt
            To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:02 PM
            Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


            How many of us can actually afford the luxury of such a walk? How
            would you pay the bills back home? How would you keep your job? Who
            among us has the skills to obtain food and water, start a fire without
            matches or a lighter, repair clothing and footwear, and so on. Who
            could cross a mountain pass in late summer and sustain themselves?

            I have a lot of outdoor experience, and I can tell you, I do not have
            the ability to survive such a journey.

            One thing that Tolkien does not spend much time on is how his
            characters survive. How do they get water, food, and fire?

            Matt West


            --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "John Davis" <mcxg46@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > I wonder if, like meditation, walking long distances like that can
            be a way
            > of emptying the mind, of returning to a more animal-like state of
            awareness.
            >
            > Which might sound like new-age waffle, but walking every day
            certainly helps
            > clear my thoughts, and I can only imagine that walking all day every
            day
            > would do this but to a far greater degree.
            >
            > I suppose, also, that given both of their long lifespans, and the
            slower
            > pace of life in Middle-earth, a few month's walk would be less
            staggeringly
            > different to their usual existence than it is for us.
            >
            > John
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: <steveseg@...>
            > To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:47 PM
            > Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
            Summary
            >
            >
            > > Matt wondered:
            > >
            > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
            > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
            > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
            > >
            > >
            > > Steve responds: The possability of such a conversation staggers
            the mind.
            > > Mine at least.
            > >
            > > Steve S.
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Matt <tea_party@...>
            > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:22 pm
            > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
            Summary
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > It is interesting that Bilbo has such a whimsical title for his
            > > memoirs, while Frodo gives his a much more pragmatic one.
            > >
            > > One wonders what inspired Tolkien to give Bilbo such horrendously
            > > awful relatives. Perhaps his own in-laws?? Bilbo's relatives always
            > > make me feel uneasy.
            > >
            > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
            > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
            > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
            > >
            > > Very few people undertake journeys of this distance on foot anymore.
            > > Certainly not for a purpose. Most commonly it is done for recreation.
            > > Makes you wonder what it would be like to set out on foot and walk
            > > halfway across a continent.
            > >
            > > Matt West
            > >
            > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, steveseg@ wrote:
            > >>
            > >> "The Last Stage" is appropriately enough the nineteenth and last
            > > chapter of "The Hobbit."?
            > >>
            > >> Bilbo and Gandalf had just crossed the Misty Mountains and were
            > > making their way to Rivendell, which they reach on May 1st. It is
            > > evening as they enter the Last (or First) Homely House and the elves
            > > greet the pair in song, as is their way. This particular song
            > > celebrates the death of Smaug and the cleansing of nearby lands.
            > >>
            > >> The hobbit and wizard are then met by a party of elves and taken to
            > > the house of Elrond where the pair regaled the household with the
            > > details of their adventures since leaving Rivendell on their way to
            > > Erebor.
            > >>
            > >> During the recital, Bilbo learned that Gandalf had been attending a
            > > council of white wizards (were there any declared black wizards?),
            > > which then drove the Necromancer from Dol Goldur in the south of
            > > Mirkwood. Perhaps Sauron was thought of as a Black Wizard though he
            > > was actually so much more. Possibly a couple of the Ring Wraiths were
            > > once wizards or sorcerers and still practiced their arts. As to the
            > > Blue Wizards, they might have turned to the shadow out in the lands to
            > > the east of Rhun...
            > >>
            > >> Bilbo falls asleep soon after the talk of dragons and wizards is
            > > ended and awakes in a bed during the night with elves paying him
            > > homage in song. The hobbit banters with the elves outside his window
            > > before returning to sleep. Within a week Bilbo and Gandalf take leave
            > > of Elrond and Rivendell, and begin the last stage of their journey to
            > > the Shire. A strong rain accompanies them as Gandalf states "There is
            > > a long road yet" and Bilbo responds "But it is the last road."
            > >>
            > >> Soon the Wild is left behind and Bilbo recalls many of the places
            > > along the road where he, Gandalf and the dwarves had journeyed on
            > > their way east. This includes the gold hoard of Tom, Bert and bill,
            > > the man-eating trolls. Wizard and hobbit split the treasure
            between them.
            > >>
            > >> As the month of June advanced, so too did the odd pair and finally
            > > the Shire is entered and soon thereafter, the Hill in Hobbiton. Bilbo
            > > is prompted to poetry at the sight, commenting on how the "roads go
            > > ever ever on," hinting at the horrors of the world and the warmth of
            > > home, in a cyclical journey.
            > >>
            > >> The door to Bilbo's home is reached, ending the cycle in its'
            > > entirety. To his shock, he finds Bag End overrun with locals removing
            > > the contents of his home which they purchased at auction. It takes
            > > years for Bilbo to finally resolve the legalities of the situation,
            > > with the Sackville-Bagginses proving to be the worst culprits
            involved.
            > >>
            > >> Aside from losing some spoons, the hobbit had also lost his
            > > respectable reputation, except for a few of the wilder Tooks, from
            > > that side. Bilbo is not concerned with the loss of either the spoons
            > > or reputation. Well, the spoons might have rankled him a bit more than
            > > he led on...
            > >>
            > >> Bilbo's sword and mail were put on display, at Bag End and a museum,
            > > respectively, though surely he retrieved the latter at some point. He
            > > took to writing more poetry and visiting elves, though they were
            > > probably in transit to Lune, preparatory to leaving Middle-Earth.
            > >>
            > >> The hobbit even took to writing his memoirs, "There and Back
            > > Again,?a Hobbit's Holiday." In fact, some years after his adventures
            > > in the Wild, while writing these memoirs, Gandalf shows up with Balin
            > > and the trio waste no time in catching up on events during and since
            > > their time together. Bard had rebuilt Dale and Lake-town still
            > > prospered as well, though the old Master had come to a bad end. The
            > > dwarves, men and elves of the region surrounding the Lonely Mountain
            > > were mutually allied and this becomes significant during the War of
            > > the Ring.
            > >>
            > >> The chapter and book end with Gandalf saying "You are a very fine
            > > person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you, but you are only quite
            > > a little fellow in a wide world after all!" The hobbit laughingly
            > > responds "Thank goodness" as he hands the wizard a tobacco-jar.
            > >>
            > >> Steve S.
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >



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        • -
          Except for rare times, like when Sam cooked a couple of rabbits, Hobbits appear to be mainly vegetarian. Only the bad guys seem to have a preference for
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Except for rare times, like when Sam cooked a couple of rabbits, Hobbits appear to be mainly vegetarian. Only the "bad guys" seem to have a preference for meat--preferably raw or human-type.

            On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 7:29 AM, John Davis <mcxg46@...> wrote:

            >I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It
            >does say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.

            Perhaps they were skilled enough to be able to forage for food without
            resorting to murdering other beings?

            John

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Peter Chapman" <hawkworks@...>
            To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Travelling & gathering food - Was The
            Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


            With a .22 air rifle & a telescopic or poacher fly rod, and suitable
            dry/preserved food (rice, pasta, beans, flour, jerked meat & pemican,
            raisins), then yes, I could do this. Moorland streams are full of fish & if
            they only run to a small size, you can eat 4. Without the rifle, I could
            manage with a hawk, but not with a bow. I am not sufficiently skilled with
            one to hit anything smaller than a deer (as hunting with a bow is not legal
            in the UK). Hitting a (sitting) duck, rabbit or woodpigeon is about
            equivalent to a red or gold.

            Without either rifle or hawk I would find it difficult. It is easy enough to
            snare rabbits, but not whilst travelling. You have to wait around (sometimes
            several days) for results.

            I can hike 20 miles a day with 30-40lbs of kit. Or ride 60 mmiles a day.

            I could do this is spring, summer or autumn. In winter it would be
            difficult - fish are disinclined to feed & game seems scarce.

            I am surprised that none of the hobbits carried bows in either book. It does
            say in the Hobbit that bilbo was skilled with one.

            L-o-H
             ----- Original Message -----
             From: Matt
             To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
             Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:02 PM
             Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen Summary


             How many of us can actually afford the luxury of such a walk? How
             would you pay the bills back home? How would you keep your job? Who
             among us has the skills to obtain food and water, start a fire without
             matches or a lighter, repair clothing and footwear, and so on. Who
             could cross a mountain pass in late summer and sustain themselves?

             I have a lot of outdoor experience, and I can tell you, I do not have
             the ability to survive such a journey.

             One thing that Tolkien does not spend much time on is how his
             characters survive. How do they get water, food, and fire?

             Matt West


             --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "John Davis" <mcxg46@...>
             wrote:
             >
             > Hi,
             >
             > I wonder if, like meditation, walking long distances like that can
             be a way
             > of emptying the mind, of returning to a more animal-like state of
             awareness.
             >
             > Which might sound like new-age waffle, but walking every day
             certainly helps
             > clear my thoughts, and I can only imagine that walking all day every
             day
             > would do this but to a far greater degree.
             >
             > I suppose, also, that given both of their long lifespans, and the
             slower
             > pace of life in Middle-earth, a few month's walk would be less
             staggeringly
             > different to their usual existence than it is for us.
             >
             > John
             > ----- Original Message -----
             > From: <steveseg@...>
             > To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
             > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:47 PM
             > Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
             Summary
             >
             >
             > > Matt wondered:
             > >
             > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
             > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
             > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
             > >
             > >
             > > Steve responds: The possability of such a conversation staggers
             the mind.
             > > Mine at least.
             > >
             > > Steve S.
             > >
             > > -----Original Message-----
             > > From: Matt <tea_party@...>
             > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
             > > Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:22 pm
             > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: The Hobbit - Chapter Nineteen
             Summary
             > >
             > >
             > >
             > >
             > >
             > >
             > > It is interesting that Bilbo has such a whimsical title for his
             > > memoirs, while Frodo gives his a much more pragmatic one.
             > >
             > > One wonders what inspired Tolkien to give Bilbo such horrendously
             > > awful relatives. Perhaps his own in-laws?? Bilbo's relatives always
             > > make me feel uneasy.
             > >
             > > When a journey takes so many months, one wonders what two companions
             > > would talk about for so long. Do they fall into long periods of quiet,
             > > or did Gandalf regale Bilbo with the history of Ea?
             > >
             > > Very few people undertake journeys of this distance on foot anymore.
             > > Certainly not for a purpose. Most commonly it is done for recreation.
             > > Makes you wonder what it would be like to set out on foot and walk
             > > halfway across a continent.
             > >
             > > Matt West
             > >
             > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, steveseg@ wrote:
             > >>
             > >> "The Last Stage" is appropriately enough the nineteenth and last
             > > chapter of "The Hobbit."?
             > >>
             > >> Bilbo and Gandalf had just crossed the Misty Mountains and were
             > > making their way to Rivendell, which they reach on May 1st. It is
             > > evening as they enter the Last (or First) Homely House and the elves
             > > greet the pair in song, as is their way. This particular song
             > > celebrates the death of Smaug and the cleansing of nearby lands.
             > >>
             > >> The hobbit and wizard are then met by a party of elves and taken to
             > > the house of Elrond where the pair regaled the household with the
             > > details of their adventures since leaving Rivendell on their way to
             > > Erebor.
             > >>
             > >> During the recital, Bilbo learned that Gandalf had been attending a
             > > council of white wizards (were there any declared black wizards?),
             > > which then drove the Necromancer from Dol Goldur in the south of
             > > Mirkwood. Perhaps Sauron was thought of as a Black Wizard though he
             > > was actually so much more. Possibly a couple of the Ring Wraiths were
             > > once wizards or sorcerers and still practiced their arts. As to the
             > > Blue Wizards, they might have turned to the shadow out in the lands to
             > > the east of Rhun...
             > >>
             > >> Bilbo falls asleep soon after the talk of dragons and wizards is
             > > ended and awakes in a bed during the night with elves paying him
             > > homage in song. The hobbit banters with the elves outside his window
             > > before returning to sleep. Within a week Bilbo and Gandalf take leave
             > > of Elrond and Rivendell, and begin the last stage of their journey to
             > > the Shire. A strong rain accompanies them as Gandalf states "There is
             > > a long road yet" and Bilbo responds "But it is the last road."
             > >>
             > >> Soon the Wild is left behind and Bilbo recalls many of the places
             > > along the road where he, Gandalf and the dwarves had journeyed on
             > > their way east. This includes the gold hoard of Tom, Bert and bill,
             > > the man-eating trolls. Wizard and hobbit split the treasure
             between them.
             > >>
             > >> As the month of June advanced, so too did the odd pair and finally
             > > the Shire is entered and soon thereafter, the Hill in Hobbiton. Bilbo
             > > is prompted to poetry at the sight, commenting on how the "roads go
             > > ever ever on," hinting at the horrors of the world and the warmth of
             > > home, in a cyclical journey.
             > >>
             > >> The door to Bilbo's home is reached, ending the cycle in its'
             > > entirety. To his shock, he finds Bag End overrun with locals removing
             > > the contents of his home which they purchased at auction. It takes
             > > years for Bilbo to finally resolve the legalities of the situation,
             > > with the Sackville-Bagginses proving to be the worst culprits
             involved.
             > >>
             > >> Aside from losing some spoons, the hobbit had also lost his
             > > respectable reputation, except for a few of the wilder Tooks, from
             > > that side. Bilbo is not concerned with the loss of either the spoons
             > > or reputation. Well, the spoons might have rankled him a bit more than
             > > he led on...
             > >>
             > >> Bilbo's sword and mail were put on display, at Bag End and a museum,
             > > respectively, though surely he retrieved the latter at some point. He
             > > took to writing more poetry and visiting elves, though they were
             > > probably in transit to Lune, preparatory to leaving Middle-Earth.
             > >>
             > >> The hobbit even took to writing his memoirs, "There and Back
             > > Again,?a Hobbit's Holiday." In fact, some years after his adventures
             > > in the Wild, while writing these memoirs, Gandalf shows up with Balin
             > > and the trio waste no time in catching up on events during and since
             > > their time together. Bard had rebuilt Dale and Lake-town still
             > > prospered as well, though the old Master had come to a bad end. The
             > > dwarves, men and elves of the region surrounding the Lonely Mountain
             > > were mutually allied and this becomes significant during the War of
             > > the Ring.
             > >>
             > >> The chapter and book end with Gandalf saying "You are a very fine
             > > person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you, but you are only quite
             > > a little fellow in a wide world after all!" The hobbit laughingly
             > > responds "Thank goodness" as he hands the wizard a tobacco-jar.
             > >>
             > >> Steve S.
             > >>
             > >
             > >
             > >
             > >
             > >
             >



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