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Hi all! Here I am again :^)

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  • g.olivieri
    I m Gustavo, from Rio. First read The Lord of the Rings when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I m Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 6, 2006
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      I'm Gustavo, from Rio. First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

      (Sounds familiar?)

      When I found out Latin I was dazzled, because I already knew the familiarities between Quenya and Sindarin, and as I saw Latin and my own language -- Portuguese -- I thought to myself "wow!, that 'guy' didn't take that whole thing from nowhere!..."

      Indeed, prof. J. Tolkien was language teacher (so, eager student, as well), and new, among others, Old English, and his work in Sindarin and Quenya reflects dearly well the history of a language.

      (In the conception of mortal-men, because, in case of Quenya and Sindarin, the languages only grew different because of the distance: Quenya was developed on the West of the Valar-Belain, and Sindarin, in the Middle-earth. Later, but still in the First Age they met again, as Feanor and the Noldor went back to Middle-earth, exiled for having killed his kin, because of the silmarilli.)

      If Romans were an immortal people, as the idealized elves of 'master' writer John T., we, Portuguese speakers, would kind of speak something like Sindarin, compared to their language, the language of old Rome.

      I'm fond of the movies, as well, whoever I will rather have the books than the movies as source of inspirations. Maybe because I, too, intend to publish, someday, the things I write.

      (Something I like in the films is the ... how to say?... eficiency in putting in motion Alan Lee's work, which is very beautiful and, in many features, close to the artist John Tolkien's own art-work.)

      However, I'm always careful to point out that Peter Jackson's work, no matter how remarkable may it be, is only ONE reading, one personal -- in a way very collective, but even so, personal -- interpretation of a work that is far more rich and deep than a film language is able to make.

      (Eowyn's despair, in Pelennor, and the slay of the Witch-king of Angmar, can be compared to Homer's epic poem, and it's less than a hundred years old!...)

      Did Achilles die tragically, according to what his gods told so?... Did any man called Achilles ever existed? Well, king Theoden did not exist, but maybe, as it's been discussed recently, the common citizen John T. did see horrible things in a trench... So, maybe a witch never threatened him, but he may have felt as big as a hobbit, in desperate situations that aren't completely lost in eternity, 'cause he WROTE about hobbits hiding from weird black knights, in the middle of desert roads...

      War still reaches us, even now. Rio de Janeiro lives under constant "war". Sampaulo (Brazil) has been recently devastated by some sort of modern terror. And the western civilization still mourns for New York.

      But, from the wars of mankind, there's a thought that, maybe, just maybe, when the war is over, we will take a boat and fly toward some refuge. It's no magic: it's art.

      Where can we run to, when things are difficult? To Mars? I hope so, but then I'll jump from J. T. to Jules Verne.

      The virtue of John Tolkien, in my life, and in my literature, is thinking about the past. The way Tolkien taught us how to write is a legacy to mankind, and worths his name among others such as Homer, Virgil and Miguel de Cervantes. And so many others.

      So, let us have a good time! Everyone's invited to talk! Maybe we might play something around here, for a change?... What do you think, Jack?

      In touch,

      Gustavo,

      Rio.
    • Wilson, Bruce
      A very good post. One small nitpick. JRRT always went by his SECOND given name--Ronald, never by John. John T. was the name that his son, the one who
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 7, 2006
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        A very good post.
         
        One small nitpick.  JRRT always went by his SECOND given name--Ronald, never by John.  "John T." was the name that his son, the one who became an RC priest, went by.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of g.olivieri
        Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:35 PM
        To: tolkiendiscussions
        Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)



        I'm Gustavo, from Rio. First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

        (Sounds familiar?)

        .

      • Jack
        Welcome back Gustavo! Eowyn’s victory over the Witch King put me in mind of Shakespeare – no man born of woman can harm [Macbeth] – but [Macduff] was
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 7, 2006
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          Welcome back Gustavo!

           

          Eowyn’s victory over the Witch King put me in mind of Shakespeare – no man born of woman can harm [Macbeth] – but [Macduff] was from my mother’s womb untimely ripped…

           

          Regards

          Jack

           


          From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of g.olivieri
          Sent: 06 August 2006 22:35
          To: tolkiendiscussions
          Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

           



          I'm Gustavo, from Rio . First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

          (Sounds familiar?)

          When I found out Latin I was dazzled, because I already knew the familiarities between Quenya and Sindarin, and as I saw Latin and my own language -- Portuguese -- I thought to myself "wow!, that 'guy' didn't take that whole thing from nowhere!..."

          Indeed, prof. J. Tolkien was language teacher (so, eager student, as well), and new, among others, Old English, and his work in Sindarin and Quenya reflects dearly well the history of a language.

          (In the conception of mortal-men, because, in case of Quenya and Sindarin, the languages only grew different because of the distance: Quenya was developed on the West of the Valar-Belain, and Sindarin, in the Middle-earth. Later, but still in the First Age they met again, as Feanor and the Noldor went back to Middle-earth, exiled for having killed his kin, because of the silmarilli.)

          If Romans were an immortal people, as the idealized elves of 'master' writer John T., we, Portuguese speakers, would kind of speak something like Sindarin, compared to their language, the language of old Rome.

          I'm fond of the movies, as well, whoever I will rather have the books than the movies as source of inspirations. Maybe because I, too, intend to publish, someday, the things I write.

          (Something I like in the films is the ... how to say?... eficiency in putting in motion Alan Lee's work, which is very beautiful and, in many features, close to the artist John Tolkien's own art-work.)

          However, I'm always careful to point out that Peter Jackson's work, no matter how remarkable may it be, is only ONE reading, one personal -- in a way very collective, but even so, personal -- interpretation of a work that is far more rich and deep than a film language is able to make.

          (Eowyn's despair, in Pelennor, and the slay of the Witch-king of Angmar, can be compared to Homer's epic poem, and it's less than a hundred years old!...)

          Did Achilles die tragically, according to what his gods told so?... Did any man called Achilles ever existed? Well, king Theoden did not exist, but maybe, as it's been discussed recently, the common citizen John T. did see horrible things in a trench... So, maybe a witch never threatened him, but he may have felt as big as a hobbit, in desperate situations that aren't completely lost in eternity, 'cause he WROTE about hobbits hiding from weird black knights, in the middle of desert roads...

          War still reaches us, even now. Rio de Janeiro lives under constant "war". Sampaulo ( Brazil ) has been recently devastated by some sort of modern terror. And the western civilization still mourns for New York .

          But, from the wars of mankind, there's a thought that, maybe, just maybe, when the war is over, we will take a boat and fly toward some refuge. It's no magic: it's art.

          Where can we run to, when things are difficult? To Mars? I hope so, but then I'll jump from J. T. to Jules Verne.

          The virtue of John Tolkien, in my life, and in my literature, is thinking about the past. The way Tolkien taught us how to write is a legacy to mankind, and worths his name among others such as Homer, Virgil and Miguel de Cervantes. And so many others.

          So, let us have a good time! Everyone's invited to talk! Maybe we might play something around here, for a change?... What do you think, Jack?

          In touch,

          Gustavo,

          Rio .

        • Jack
          His school-friends called him John Ronald . _____ From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wilson,
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 7, 2006
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            His school-friends called him “John Ronald”…

             


            From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wilson, Bruce
            Sent: 07 August 2006 14:46
            To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

             

            A very good post.

             

            One small nitpick.  JRRT always went by his SECOND given name--Ronald, never by John.  "John T." was the name that his son, the one who became an RC priest, went by.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com]On Behalf Of g.olivieri
            Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:35 PM
            To: tolkiendiscussions
            Subject: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)



            I'm Gustavo, from Rio . First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

            (Sounds familiar?)

            .



          • Wilson, Bruce
            But nobody EVER called him John --at least not more than once. ... From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 7, 2006
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              But nobody EVER called him 'John'--at least not more than once.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
              Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 3:46 PM
              To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

              His school-friends called him “John Ronald”…

              .

            • Jack
              Are you sure you aren’t confusing him with John Wayne, christened Marion Morrison? “Ain’t nobody calls me Marion, stranger…” ... Jack _____ From:
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 7, 2006
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                Are you sure you aren’t confusing him with John Wayne, christened Marion Morrison?

                 

                “Ain’t nobody calls me Marion, stranger…”

                 

                :o)

                Jack

                 

                 


                From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wilson, Bruce
                But nobody EVER called him 'John'--at least not more than once.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
                His school-friends called him “John Ronald”…

                .



              • Cindy Kalita
                Me too. For summer my english teacher is making us read _How to Read Like a Liturature Professor_ and one chapter is devoted to the fact that most books have
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                  Me too.  For summer my english teacher is making us read How to Read Like a Liturature Professor and one chapter is devoted to the fact that most books have some reference to Shakespeare.  However, Eowyn was a woman, not a man born of a c-section birth.  Still similar, though.
                  ~Cindy
                  Jack wrote:

                  Welcome back Gustavo!

                   

                  Eowyn’s victory over the Witch King put me in mind of Shakespeare – no man born of woman can harm [Macbeth] – but [Macduff] was from my mother’s womb untimely ripped…

                   

                  Regards

                  Jack

                   


                  From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of g.olivieri
                  Sent: 06 August 2006 22:35
                  To: tolkiendiscussions
                  Subject: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                   



                  I'm Gustavo, from Rio . First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

                  (Sounds familiar?)

                  When I found out Latin I was dazzled, because I already knew the familiarities between Quenya and Sindarin, and as I saw Latin and my own language -- Portuguese -- I thought to myself "wow!, that 'guy' didn't take that whole thing from nowhere!..."

                  Indeed, prof. J. Tolkien was language teacher (so, eager student, as well), and new, among others, Old English, and his work in Sindarin and Quenya reflects dearly well the history of a language.

                  (In the conception of mortal-men, because, in case of Quenya and Sindarin, the languages only grew different because of the distance: Quenya was developed on the West of the Valar-Belain, and Sindarin, in the Middle-earth. Later, but still in the First Age they met again, as Feanor and the Noldor went back to Middle-earth, exiled for having killed his kin, because of the silmarilli.)

                  If Romans were an immortal people, as the idealized elves of 'master' writer John T., we, Portuguese speakers, would kind of speak something like Sindarin, compared to their language, the language of old Rome.

                  I'm fond of the movies, as well, whoever I will rather have the books than the movies as source of inspirations. Maybe because I, too, intend to publish, someday, the things I write.

                  (Something I like in the films is the ... how to say?... eficiency in putting in motion Alan Lee's work, which is very beautiful and, in many features, close to the artist John Tolkien's own art-work.)

                  However, I'm always careful to point out that Peter Jackson's work, no matter how remarkable may it be, is only ONE reading, one personal -- in a way very collective, but even so, personal -- interpretation of a work that is far more rich and deep than a film language is able to make.

                  (Eowyn's despair, in Pelennor, and the slay of the Witch-king of Angmar, can be compared to Homer's epic poem, and it's less than a hundred years old!...)

                  Did Achilles die tragically, according to what his gods told so?... Did any man called Achilles ever existed? Well, king Theoden did not exist, but maybe, as it's been discussed recently, the common citizen John T. did see horrible things in a trench... So, maybe a witch never threatened him, but he may have felt as big as a hobbit, in desperate situations that aren't completely lost in eternity, 'cause he WROTE about hobbits hiding from weird black knights, in the middle of desert roads...

                  War still reaches us, even now. Rio de Janeiro lives under constant "war". Sampaulo ( Brazil ) has been recently devastated by some sort of modern terror. And the western civilization still mourns for New York .

                  But, from the wars of mankind, there's a thought that, maybe, just maybe, when the war is over, we will take a boat and fly toward some refuge. It's no magic: it's art.

                  Where can we run to, when things are difficult? To Mars? I hope so, but then I'll jump from J. T. to Jules Verne.

                  The virtue of John Tolkien, in my life, and in my literature, is thinking about the past. The way Tolkien taught us how to write is a legacy to mankind, and worths his name among others such as Homer, Virgil and Miguel de Cervantes. And so many others.

                  So, let us have a good time! Everyone's invited to talk! Maybe we might play something around here, for a change?... What do you think, Jack?

                  In touch,

                  Gustavo,

                  Rio .



                  -- 
                  ÐÏࡱá
                • Wilson, Bruce
                  The first time I read The Scottish Play and didn t know how it ended, when I got to the prophecy I thought that Macbeth would be killed by a woman. ... From:
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The first time I read The Scottish Play and didn't know how it ended, when I got to the prophecy I thought that Macbeth would be killed by a woman.
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Cindy Kalita
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:21 PM
                    To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                    Me too.  For summer my english teacher is making us read How to Read Like a Liturature Professor and one chapter is devoted to the fact that most books have some reference to Shakespeare.  However, Eowyn was a woman, not a man born of a c-section birth.  Still similar, though.
                    ~Cindy
                    Jack wrote:

                    Welcome back Gustavo!

                    Eowyn’s victory over the Witch King put me in mind of Shakespeare – no man born of woman can harm [Macbeth] – but [Macduff] was from my mother’s womb untimely ripped…

                    Regards

                    Jack


                    From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of g.olivieri
                    Sent: 06 August 2006 22:35
                    To: tolkiendiscussions
                    Subject: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)



                    I'm Gustavo, from Rio . First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

                    (Sounds familiar?)

                    When I found out Latin I was dazzled, because I already knew the familiarities between Quenya and Sindarin, and as I saw Latin and my own language -- Portuguese -- I thought to myself "wow!, that 'guy' didn't take that whole thing from nowhere!..."

                    Indeed, prof. J. Tolkien was language teacher (so, eager student, as well), and new, among others, Old English, and his work in Sindarin and Quenya reflects dearly well the history of a language.

                    (In the conception of mortal-men, because, in case of Quenya and Sindarin, the languages only grew different because of the distance: Quenya was developed on the West of the Valar-Belain, and Sindarin, in the Middle-earth. Later, but still in the First Age they met again, as Feanor and the Noldor went back to Middle-earth, exiled for having killed his kin, because of the silmarilli.)

                    If Romans were an immortal people, as the idealized elves of 'master' writer John T., we, Portuguese speakers, would kind of speak something like Sindarin, compared to their language, the language of old Rome.

                    I'm fond of the movies, as well, whoever I will rather have the books than the movies as source of inspirations. Maybe because I, too, intend to publish, someday, the things I write.

                    (Something I like in the films is the ... how to say?... eficiency in putting in motion Alan Lee's work, which is very beautiful and, in many features, close to the artist John Tolkien's own art-work.)

                    However, I'm always careful to point out that Peter Jackson's work, no matter how remarkable may it be, is only ONE reading, one personal -- in a way very collective, but even so, personal -- interpretation of a work that is far more rich and deep than a film language is able to make.

                    (Eowyn's despair, in Pelennor, and the slay of the Witch-king of Angmar, can be compared to Homer's epic poem, and it's less than a hundred years old!...)

                    Did Achilles die tragically, according to what his gods told so?... Did any man called Achilles ever existed? Well, king Theoden did not exist, but maybe, as it's been discussed recently, the common citizen John T. did see horrible things in a trench... So, maybe a witch never threatened him, but he may have felt as big as a hobbit, in desperate situations that aren't completely lost in eternity, 'cause he WROTE about hobbits hiding from weird black knights, in the middle of desert roads...

                    War still reaches us, even now. Rio de Janeiro lives under constant "war". Sampaulo ( Brazil ) has been recently devastated by some sort of modern terror. And the western civilization still mourns for New York .

                    But, from the wars of mankind, there's a thought that, maybe, just maybe, when the war is over, we will take a boat and fly toward some refuge. It's no magic: it's art.

                    Where can we run to, when things are difficult? To Mars? I hope so, but then I'll jump from J. T. to Jules Verne.

                    The virtue of John Tolkien, in my life, and in my literature, is thinking about the past. The way Tolkien taught us how to write is a legacy to mankind, and worths his name among others such as Homer, Virgil and Miguel de Cervantes. And so many others.

                    So, let us have a good time! Everyone's invited to talk! Maybe we might play something around here, for a change?... What do you think, Jack?

                    In touch,

                    Gustavo,

                    Rio .



                    -- 
                    ÐÏࡱá

                  • Jack
                    And Lady M was your prime suspect? _____ From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wilson, Bruce The
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                      And Lady M was your prime suspect?

                       


                      From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Wilson, Bruce

                      The first time I read The Scottish Play and didn't know how it ended, when I got to the prophecy I thought that Macbeth would be killed by a woman.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com ]On Behalf Of Cindy Kalita
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:21 PM
                      To: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                      Me too.  For summer my english teacher is making us read How to Read Like a Liturature Professor and one chapter is devoted to the fact that most books have some reference to Shakespeare.  However, Eowyn was a woman, not a man born of a c-section birth.  Still similar, though.
                      ~Cindy
                      Jack wrote:

                      Welcome back Gustavo!

                      Eowyn’s victory over the Witch King put me in mind of Shakespeare – no man born of woman can harm [Macbeth] – but [Macduff] was from my mother’s womb untimely ripped…

                      Regards

                      Jack


                      From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of g.olivieri
                      Sent: 06 August 2006 22:35
                      To: tolkiendiscussions
                      Subject: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)



                      I'm Gustavo, from Rio . First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

                      (Sounds familiar?)

                      When I found out Latin I was dazzled, because I already knew the familiarities between Quenya and Sindarin, and as I saw Latin and my own language -- Portuguese -- I thought to myself "wow!, that 'guy' didn't take that whole thing from nowhere!..."

                      Indeed, prof. J. Tolkien was language teacher (so, eager student, as well), and new, among others, Old English, and his work in Sindarin and Quenya reflects dearly well the history of a language.

                      (In the conception of mortal-men, because, in case of Quenya and Sindarin, the languages only grew different because of the distance: Quenya was developed on the West of the Valar-Belain, and Sindarin, in the Middle-earth. Later, but still in the First Age they met again, as Feanor and the Noldor went back to Middle-earth, exiled for having killed his kin, because of the silmarilli.)

                      If Romans were an immortal people, as the idealized elves of 'master' writer John T., we, Portuguese speakers, would kind of speak something like Sindarin, compared to their language, the language of old Rome.

                      I'm fond of the movies, as well, whoever I will rather have the books than the movies as source of inspirations. Maybe because I, too, intend to publish, someday, the things I write.

                      (Something I like in the films is the ... how to say?... eficiency in putting in motion Alan Lee's work, which is very beautiful and, in many features, close to the artist John Tolkien's own art-work.)

                      However, I'm always careful to point out that Peter Jackson's work, no matter how remarkable may it be, is only ONE reading, one personal -- in a way very collective, but even so, personal -- interpretation of a work that is far more rich and deep than a film language is able to make.

                      (Eowyn's despair, in Pelennor, and the slay of the Witch-king of Angmar, can be compared to Homer's epic poem, and it's less than a hundred years old!...)

                      Did Achilles die tragically, according to what his gods told so?... Did any man called Achilles ever existed? Well, king Theoden did not exist, but maybe, as it's been discussed recently, the common citizen John T. did see horrible things in a trench... So, maybe a witch never threatened him, but he may have felt as big as a hobbit, in desperate situations that aren't completely lost in eternity, 'cause he WROTE about hobbits hiding from weird black knights, in the middle of desert roads...

                      War still reaches us, even now. Rio de Janeiro lives under constant "war". Sampaulo ( Brazil ) has been recently devastated by some sort of modern terror. And the western civilization still mourns for New York .

                      But, from the wars of mankind, there's a thought that, maybe, just maybe, when the war is over, we will take a boat and fly toward some refuge. It's no magic: it's art.

                      Where can we run to, when things are difficult? To Mars? I hope so, but then I'll jump from J. T. to Jules Verne.

                      The virtue of John Tolkien, in my life, and in my literature, is thinking about the past. The way Tolkien taught us how to write is a legacy to mankind, and worths his name among others such as Homer, Virgil and Miguel de Cervantes. And so many others.

                      So, let us have a good time! Everyone's invited to talk! Maybe we might play something around here, for a change?... What do you think, Jack?

                      In touch,

                      Gustavo,

                      Rio .




                      -- 
                      ÐÏࡱá

                    • Jack
                      I had noticed that, but it has the same effect – the baddie is discomfited. Was Macbeth a baddie? I read somewhere that he was a very progressive, benign
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                        I had noticed that, but  it has the same effect – the baddie is discomfited. 

                         

                        Was Macbeth a baddie?  I read somewhere that he was a very progressive, benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency

                         

                        Regards

                        Jack

                         


                        From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Cindy Kalita
                        Sent: 08 August 2006 17:21
                        To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                         

                        Me too.  For summer my english teacher is making us read How to Read Like a Liturature Professor and one chapter is devoted to the fact that most books have some reference to Shakespeare.  However, Eowyn was a woman, not a man born of a c-section birth.  Still similar, though.
                        ~Cindy
                        Jack wrote:

                        Welcome back Gustavo!

                         

                        Eowyn’s victory over the Witch King put me in mind of Shakespeare – no man born of woman can harm [Macbeth] – but [Macduff] was from my mother’s womb untimely ripped…

                         

                        Regards

                        Jack

                         


                        From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of g.olivieri
                        Sent: 06 August 2006 22:35
                        To: tolkiendiscussions
                        Subject: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                         



                        I'm Gustavo, from Rio . First read 'The Lord of the Rings' when I was 14, and I can say it influenced my life: I'm Latin student, nowadays, coursing so as to become language and etymology teacher.

                        (Sounds familiar?)

                        When I found out Latin I was dazzled, because I already knew the familiarities between Quenya and Sindarin, and as I saw Latin and my own language -- Portuguese -- I thought to myself "wow!, that 'guy' didn't take that whole thing from nowhere!..."

                        Indeed, prof. J. Tolkien was language teacher (so, eager student, as well), and new, among others, Old English, and his work in Sindarin and Quenya reflects dearly well the history of a language.

                        (In the conception of mortal-men, because, in case of Quenya and Sindarin, the languages only grew different because of the distance: Quenya was developed on the West of the Valar-Belain, and Sindarin, in the Middle-earth. Later, but still in the First Age they met again, as Feanor and the Noldor went back to Middle-earth, exiled for having killed his kin, because of the silmarilli.)

                        If Romans were an immortal people, as the idealized elves of 'master' writer John T., we, Portuguese speakers, would kind of speak something like Sindarin, compared to their language, the language of old Rome.

                        I'm fond of the movies, as well, whoever I will rather have the books than the movies as source of inspirations. Maybe because I, too, intend to publish, someday, the things I write.

                        (Something I like in the films is the ... how to say?... eficiency in putting in motion Alan Lee's work, which is very beautiful and, in many features, close to the artist John Tolkien's own art-work.)

                        However, I'm always careful to point out that Peter Jackson's work, no matter how remarkable may it be, is only ONE reading, one personal -- in a way very collective, but even so, personal -- interpretation of a work that is far more rich and deep than a film language is able to make.

                        (Eowyn's despair, in Pelennor, and the slay of the Witch-king of Angmar, can be compared to Homer's epic poem, and it's less than a hundred years old!...)

                        Did Achilles die tragically, according to what his gods told so?... Did any man called Achilles ever existed? Well, king Theoden did not exist, but maybe, as it's been discussed recently, the common citizen John T. did see horrible things in a trench... So, maybe a witch never threatened him, but he may have felt as big as a hobbit, in desperate situations that aren't completely lost in eternity, 'cause he WROTE about hobbits hiding from weird black knights, in the middle of desert roads...

                        War still reaches us, even now. Rio de Janeiro lives under constant "war". Sampaulo ( Brazil ) has been recently devastated by some sort of modern terror. And the western civilization still mourns for New York .

                        But, from the wars of mankind, there's a thought that, maybe, just maybe, when the war is over, we will take a boat and fly toward some refuge. It's no magic: it's art.

                        Where can we run to, when things are difficult? To Mars? I hope so, but then I'll jump from J. T. to Jules Verne.

                        The virtue of John Tolkien, in my life, and in my literature, is thinking about the past. The way Tolkien taught us how to write is a legacy to mankind, and worths his name among others such as Homer, Virgil and Miguel de Cervantes. And so many others.

                        So, let us have a good time! Everyone's invited to talk! Maybe we might play something around here, for a change?... What do you think, Jack?

                        In touch,

                        Gustavo,

                        Rio .




                        -- 
                        ÐÏࡱá
                      • Wilson, Bruce
                        Are we discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character by the same name in the Shakespeare play? They are not the same person. I
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                          Are we discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character by the same name in the Shakespeare play?  They are not the same person.
                           
                          I really don't know enough about Scottish history to say one way or the other.
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                          To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                          I had noticed that, but  it has the same effect – the baddie is discomfited. 

                          Was Macbeth a baddie?  I read somewhere that he was a very progressive, benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency

                          Regards

                          Jack

                          .

                        • Wilson, Bruce
                          I suppose, although it was so long ago that I don t remember. ... From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                            I suppose, although it was so long ago that I don't remember.
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
                            Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                            To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                            And Lady M was your prime suspect?

                            .

                          • Servo Kamen
                            Or a certain immortal king who wound up on the bad side of a gargoyal. *wonders if anyone will get that* SHADOWKamen. Wilson, Bruce
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                              Or a certain immortal king who wound up on the bad side of a gargoyal.

                              *wonders if anyone will get that*



                              SHADOWKamen.


                              "Wilson, Bruce" <brucewilson@...> wrote:
                              Are we discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character by the same name in the Shakespeare play?  They are not the same person.
                               
                              I really don't know enough about Scottish history to say one way or the other.
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                              To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                              I had noticed that, but  it has the same effect – the baddie is discomfited. 
                              Was Macbeth a baddie?  I read somewhere that he was a very progressive, benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency
                              Regards
                              Jack
                              .




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                            • Jack
                              You are watching too much TV, Kamen. I ve never heard of the program, but Google found it for me! ... Jack _____ From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                                You are watching too much TV, Kamen…

                                 

                                I’ve never heard of the program, but Google found it for me!

                                :o)

                                Jack

                                 


                                From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Servo Kamen
                                Sent: 09 August 2006 00:12
                                To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                                 

                                Or a certain immortal king who wound up on the bad side of a gargoyal.

                                *wonders if anyone will get that*



                                SHADOWKamen.


                                "Wilson, Bruce" <brucewilson@ mail.courtswv. org> wrote:

                                Are we discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character by the same name in the Shakespeare play?  They are not the same person.

                                 

                                I really don't know enough about Scottish history to say one way or the other.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com ]On Behalf Of Jack
                                Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                                To: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                                I had noticed that, but  it has the same effect – the baddie is discomfited. 

                                Was Macbeth a baddie?  I read somewhere that he was a very progressive, benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency

                                Regards

                                Jack

                                .






                                Send offlist e-mails to info_servo@yahoo. com .

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                              • Jack
                                Wikipedia gives a lot of detail about the real Macbeth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth_of_Scotland _____ From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 8, 2006
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                                  Wikipedia gives a lot of detail about the real Macbeth

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth_of_Scotland

                                   

                                   


                                  From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Wilson, Bruce
                                  Sent: 08 August 2006 18:36
                                  To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                                   

                                  Are we discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character by the same name in the Shakespeare play?  They are not the same person.

                                   

                                  I really don't know enough about Scottish history to say one way or the other.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: TolkienDisc ussions@yahoogro ups.com ]On Behalf Of Jack
                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                                  To: TolkienDiscussions@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions ] Hi all! Here I am again :^)

                                  I had noticed that, but  it has the same effect – the baddie is discomfited. 

                                  Was Macbeth a baddie?  I read somewhere that he was a very progressive, benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency

                                  Regards

                                  Jack

                                  .



                                • Margaret Jirik
                                  Jalepena!!! ;-) Margaret ... _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 12, 2006
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                                    Jalepena!!!

                                    ;-)

                                    Margaret

                                    >From: Servo Kamen <psycho_neko_king@...>
                                    >Reply-To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)
                                    >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:11:42 -0700 (PDT)
                                    >
                                    >Or a certain immortal king who wound up on the bad side of a gargoyal.
                                    >
                                    >*wonders if anyone will get that*
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >SHADOWKamen.
                                    >
                                    >"Wilson, Bruce" <brucewilson@...> wrote: Are we
                                    >discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character
                                    >by the same name in the Shakespeare play? They are not the same person.
                                    >
                                    > I really don't know enough about Scottish history to say one way or the
                                    >other.
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    >From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                    >[mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
                                    >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                                    >To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I had noticed that, but it has the same effect � the baddie is
                                    >discomfited.
                                    >
                                    > Was Macbeth a baddie? I read somewhere that he was a very progressive,
                                    >benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency
                                    >
                                    > Regards
                                    > Jack
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > .
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Send offlist e-mails to info_servo@... .
                                    >
                                    >Frappr Map:
                                    >http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&id=1027741
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                                    >
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                                  • Servo Kamen
                                    *grins* oh yes lol *S* SHADOWKamen. Margaret Jirik wrote: Jalepena!!! ;-) Margaret ... wrote: Are we ...
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 15, 2006
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                                      *grins*  oh yes  lol
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                      *S*
                                      SHADOWKamen.

                                      Margaret Jirik <MaggieJ_79@...> wrote:
                                      Jalepena!!!

                                      ;-)

                                      Margaret

                                      >From: Servo Kamen
                                      >Reply-To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)
                                      >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:11:42 -0700 (PDT)
                                      >
                                      >Or a certain immortal king who wound up on the bad side of a gargoyal.
                                      >
                                      >*wonders if anyone will get that*
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >SHADOWKamen.
                                      >
                                      >"Wilson, Bruce" wrote: Are we
                                      >discussing the real, historical King Macbeth of Scotland or the character
                                      >by the same name in the Shakespeare play? They are not the same person.
                                      >
                                      > I really don't know enough about Scottish history to say one way or the
                                      >other.
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      >From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      >[mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack
                                      >Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:23 PM
                                      >To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Hi all! Here I am again :^)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I had noticed that, but it has the same effect – the baddie is
                                      >discomfited.
                                      >
                                      > Was Macbeth a baddie? I read somewhere that he was a very progressive,
                                      >benign king, possibly with a bad PR agency
                                      >
                                      > Regards
                                      > Jack
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > .
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Send offlist e-mails to info_servo@... .
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                                      >
                                      >---------------------------------
                                      >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

                                      _________________________________________________________________
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