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I don't know much about art née Love the Books and the M ovies

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  • Jack
    Um, I have absolutely no idea what artist you are thinking of, but I think you have to find a link and show us those pictures!!! ... Jack ... From: Lisa B.
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2, 2005
      Um, I have absolutely no idea what artist you are thinking of, but I think
      you have to find a link and show us those pictures!!!

      :o)
      Jack


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Lisa B.
      Yes....I think I know the paintings youre talking
      about. I was like "OMG what is this....why?". It was
      like Gollum the penquine and Bilbo the turd...pretty
      sure it was the most horrid thing I'd ever seen.

      Lisa

      --- B Parker <mbranparker@...> wrote:

      > Just wanted to say its interesting to read all these
      > critiques, but as someone who read the books 4 times
      > 15 years before the movies, I love the movies.
      > Of course it doesnt come close to the books but its
      > not that far away from them either.
      > There are also alot of various artistic
      > presentations of Lotr, not all to my taste.
      >
      > I was surprised when I saw the art of one of
      > Tolkiens favorite middle earth artists, forgot the
      > name, but I thought it was the worst portrayal of
      > middle earth art I had ever seen, yet Tolkien
      > actually purchased a couple of the artists pintings.
      > So I dont think there is need for some kind of
      > Ultra-Orthodoxism regarding middle earth. As long as
      > one can be grounded in Tolkein thru his books we can
      > always explore the various flavors that are
      > available. PJ's Lotr is another view of the glorious
      > epic.
      >
      > TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > There are 10 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. Reading the books again, and also the
      > Silmarillion...movies don't cut it
      > From: "Mike Hayes"
      > 2. A Conspiracy Unmasked.....WHAT happened to Merry
      > and Pippin the movies??????
      > From: "Mike Hayes"
      > 3. Christopher Tolkien.....his passions and reasons
      > From: "Mike Hayes"
      > 4. Ten most disrespectul things about the movies...
      > From: "Mike Hayes"
      > 5. Ironically....
      > From: "Mike Hayes"
      > 6. Re: Ironically....
      > From: "amandak"
      > 7. Re: Ironically....
      > From: "Terry Canote"
      > 8. Re: Re: Ironically....
      > From: "Terry Canote"
      > 9. Happy Easter!!!
      > From: "George"
      > 10. Re: Re: Ironically....
      > From: Ronn! Blankenship
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:39:30 -0000
      > From: "Mike Hayes"
      > Subject: Reading the books again, and also the
      > Silmarillion...movies don't cut it
      >
      > I've been delving into the books again recently, and
      > also at the same
      > time going for reference into pieces of the
      > Silmarillion and The Books
      > of Lost Tales.
      >
      > I have to say, I was taken then by the breadth and
      > scope of the movies
      > as they came out. And I was impressed by PJ's grasp
      > of Middle Earth
      > scenery and architecture and some of the battle
      > scenes in terms of
      > capturing their sheer size and violence.
      >
      > However, I think I have finally come full circle in
      > how I ultimately
      > feel about them.
      >
      > After much, much careful consideration and thought,
      > my final feelings
      > on the movies are......that they fail. That's not to
      > say that they
      > don't have elements that capture the feel of Middle
      > Earth, or have the
      > look of Middle Earth.
      >
      > The reason the movies fail is that, I came to the
      > conclusion that
      > others have, is that the Lord of the Rings was never
      > intended to be
      > made into a movie and should not have been. And
      > therefore, no matter
      > what you try to do with the movies, the end result
      > will be moot.
      >
      > I am feading The Fellowship of the Ring currently, I
      > finished up the
      > Hobbit. Even being only less than a third a way
      > through the story, I
      > am remembering again just how much the characters in
      > the movies are
      > trimmed back and diluted for time and space
      > limitation. It really
      > undermines and I think even disrepects Tolkien's
      > vision very much.
      >
      > The problem is that the key characters of the story:
      > The Fellowship
      > itself, and those they come into contact with, are
      > developed over a
      > huge amount of pages, and their personalities
      > develop so gradually you
      > get to know them very very intimately, and you carry
      > that with you as
      > the story evolves and resolves.
      >
      > This does not even begin to happen in the movies,
      > even though they are
      > in their whole 12 hours long.
      >
      > Many have spoken of the absence of Tom Bombadil, the
      > Scouring of the
      > Shire, etc. However, I see other absences that are
      > just as hurtful to
      > the story.
      >
      > To say the that movies "hurry" the story along is a
      > gross
      > understatement. The hurriness in my opinion
      > destroys, and I mean
      > completely destroys what Tolkien was trying to
      > achieve.
      >
      > For me, some of the best moments of the entire story
      > is the period
      > Tolkien describes when Frodo is in the Shire as the
      > owner of the Ring,
      > during Gandlaf's long absence while he is finding
      > about the heritage of
      > the Ring. This span of time is important to me as a
      > reader, because it
      > builds up Frodo's life and develops his character
      > and his life even
      > before he goes on the quest. And it really helps to
      > build the
      > believablitity of the vast amount of time that
      > passes in Middle Earth.
      > The fact that Frodo has the opportunity to spend 17
      > years in the Shire
      > along side the chief object of evil of the entire
      > story, to me simply
      > sells the whole idea that Tolkien was conveying. The
      > idea that life,
      > everyday "breakfast-lunch-and dinner" life goes on
      > even when greater
      > deeds and huger events are taking place on the
      > horizon.
      >
      > I feel that this initial psychological tension, and
      > the passage of
      > time, is what gives the ring its legitimacy, it
      > gives it its
      > believability. It makes it real for the reader.
      >
      > The movie simply makes it an object of annoyance
      > that we find out has
      > to be destroyed.
      >
      > This concept COMPLETELY wraps around you in the
      > books, you become part
      > of the shire's every day existence, almost sleepily
      > in a way- and then
      > Gandalf returns out of the blue, and the story
      > SLOWLY starts up
      > again.....this essence of time passage in my opinion
      > should never have
      > been condensed, sped up, or otherwise dramatized.
      >
      > For me, this part of the story being so horribly
      > condensed in the movie
      > caused me to never buy into the believabilitiy of
      > what I was watching.
      > And that lack of believability for me carried
      > through as an annoying
      > irriation right through to the last movie.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • Lisa B.
      Just went and dug out my Realms of Middle Earth book. I dont know any links for him, but his name is Cor Blok. Lisa ... === message truncated ===
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2, 2005
        Just went and dug out my Realms of Middle Earth book.
        I dont know any links for him, but his name is Cor
        Blok.

        Lisa

        --- Jack <jack@...> wrote:

        > Um, I have absolutely no idea what artist you are
        > thinking of, but I think
        > you have to find a link and show us those
        > pictures!!!
        >
        > :o)
        > Jack
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Lisa B.
        > Yes....I think I know the paintings youre talking
        > about. I was like "OMG what is this....why?". It
        > was
        > like Gollum the penquine and Bilbo the turd...pretty
        > sure it was the most horrid thing I'd ever seen.
        >
        > Lisa
        >
        > --- B Parker <mbranparker@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Just wanted to say its interesting to read all
        > these
        > > critiques, but as someone who read the books 4
        > times
        > > 15 years before the movies, I love the movies.
        > > Of course it doesnt come close to the books but
        > its
        > > not that far away from them either.
        > > There are also alot of various artistic
        > > presentations of Lotr, not all to my taste.
        > >
        > > I was surprised when I saw the art of one of
        > > Tolkiens favorite middle earth artists, forgot the
        > > name, but I thought it was the worst portrayal of
        > > middle earth art I had ever seen, yet Tolkien
        > > actually purchased a couple of the artists
        > pintings.
        > > So I dont think there is need for some kind of
        > > Ultra-Orthodoxism regarding middle earth. As long
        > as
        > > one can be grounded in Tolkein thru his books we
        > can
        > > always explore the various flavors that are
        > > available. PJ's Lotr is another view of the
        > glorious
        > > epic.
        > >
        > > TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > >
        > > There are 10 messages in this issue.
        > >
        > > Topics in this digest:
        > >
        > > 1. Reading the books again, and also the
        > > Silmarillion...movies don't cut it
        > > From: "Mike Hayes"
        > > 2. A Conspiracy Unmasked.....WHAT happened to
        > Merry
        > > and Pippin the movies??????
        > > From: "Mike Hayes"
        > > 3. Christopher Tolkien.....his passions and
        > reasons
        > > From: "Mike Hayes"
        > > 4. Ten most disrespectul things about the
        > movies...
        > > From: "Mike Hayes"
        > > 5. Ironically....
        > > From: "Mike Hayes"
        > > 6. Re: Ironically....
        > > From: "amandak"
        > > 7. Re: Ironically....
        > > From: "Terry Canote"
        > > 8. Re: Re: Ironically....
        > > From: "Terry Canote"
        > > 9. Happy Easter!!!
        > > From: "George"
        > > 10. Re: Re: Ironically....
        > > From: Ronn! Blankenship
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        > >
        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        > >
        > > Message: 1
        > > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:39:30 -0000
        > > From: "Mike Hayes"
        > > Subject: Reading the books again, and also the
        > > Silmarillion...movies don't cut it
        > >
        > > I've been delving into the books again recently,
        > and
        > > also at the same
        > > time going for reference into pieces of the
        > > Silmarillion and The Books
        > > of Lost Tales.
        > >
        > > I have to say, I was taken then by the breadth and
        > > scope of the movies
        > > as they came out. And I was impressed by PJ's
        > grasp
        > > of Middle Earth
        > > scenery and architecture and some of the battle
        > > scenes in terms of
        > > capturing their sheer size and violence.
        > >
        > > However, I think I have finally come full circle
        > in
        > > how I ultimately
        > > feel about them.
        > >
        > > After much, much careful consideration and
        > thought,
        > > my final feelings
        > > on the movies are......that they fail. That's not
        > to
        > > say that they
        > > don't have elements that capture the feel of
        > Middle
        > > Earth, or have the
        > > look of Middle Earth.
        > >
        > > The reason the movies fail is that, I came to the
        > > conclusion that
        > > others have, is that the Lord of the Rings was
        > never
        > > intended to be
        > > made into a movie and should not have been. And
        > > therefore, no matter
        > > what you try to do with the movies, the end result
        > > will be moot.
        > >
        > > I am feading The Fellowship of the Ring currently,
        > I
        > > finished up the
        > > Hobbit. Even being only less than a third a way
        > > through the story, I
        > > am remembering again just how much the characters
        > in
        > > the movies are
        > > trimmed back and diluted for time and space
        > > limitation. It really
        > > undermines and I think even disrepects Tolkien's
        > > vision very much.
        > >
        > > The problem is that the key characters of the
        > story:
        > > The Fellowship
        > > itself, and those they come into contact with, are
        > > developed over a
        > > huge amount of pages, and their personalities
        > > develop so gradually you
        > > get to know them very very intimately, and you
        > carry
        > > that with you as
        > > the story evolves and resolves.
        > >
        > > This does not even begin to happen in the movies,
        > > even though they are
        > > in their whole 12 hours long.
        > >
        > > Many have spoken of the absence of Tom Bombadil,
        > the
        > > Scouring of the
        > > Shire, etc. However, I see other absences that are
        > > just as hurtful to
        > > the story.
        > >
        > > To say the that movies "hurry" the story along is
        > a
        > > gross
        > > understatement. The hurriness in my opinion
        > > destroys, and I mean
        > > completely destroys what Tolkien was trying to
        > > achieve.
        > >
        > > For me, some of the best moments of the entire
        > story
        > > is the period
        > > Tolkien describes when Frodo is in the Shire as
        > the
        > > owner of the Ring,
        > > during Gandlaf's long absence while he is finding
        > > about the heritage of
        > > the Ring. This span of time is important to me as
        > a
        > > reader, because it
        > > builds up Frodo's life and develops his character
        > > and his life even
        > > before he goes on the quest. And it really helps
        > to
        > > build the
        > > believablitity of the vast amount of time that
        > > passes in Middle Earth.
        > > The fact that Frodo has the opportunity to spend
        > 17
        > > years in the Shire
        > > along side the chief object of evil of the entire
        > > story, to me simply
        >
        === message truncated ===


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      • Elaine Brown
        Just ran a Google image search for him - you re right! Although some of his scenery looks rather interesting.
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2, 2005
          Just ran a Google image search for him - you're right!
          Although some of his scenery looks rather
          interesting.

          http://images.google.com/images?q=cor%20blok&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&sa=N&tab=wi

          Elaine


          --- "Lisa B." <spanky8289@...> wrote:

          > Just went and dug out my Realms of Middle Earth
          > book.
          > I dont know any links for him, but his name is Cor
          > Blok.
          >
          >

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Jack
          Sounds like a made up name to me - he s probably a chartered accountant called Kevin Pringle in real life... See this link for some of Cor s and many others:
          Message 4 of 9 , May 2, 2005
            Sounds like a made up name to me - he's probably a chartered accountant
            called Kevin Pringle in real life...

            See this link for some of Cor's and many others:

            http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0061055328/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-4825229-3492606
            #reader-page



            :o)
            Jack
            (Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again)

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lisa B.
            Just went and dug out my Realms of Middle Earth book.
            I dont know any links for him, but his name is Cor
            Blok.

            Lisa

            --- Jack <jack@...> wrote:

            > Um, I have absolutely no idea what artist you are
            > thinking of, but I think
            > you have to find a link and show us those
            > pictures!!!
            >
            > :o)
            > Jack
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Lisa B.
            > Yes....I think I know the paintings youre talking
            > about. I was like "OMG what is this....why?". It
            >> like Gollum the penquine and Bilbo the turd...pretty
            > sure it was the most horrid thing I'd ever seen.
            >
            > Lisa
            >
            > --- B Parker <mbranparker@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Just wanted to say its interesting to read all
            > these
            > > critiques, but as someone who read the books 4
            > times
            > > 15 years before the movies, I love the movies.
            > > Of course it doesnt come close to the books but
            > its
            > > not that far away from them either.
            > > There are also alot of various artistic
            > > presentations of Lotr, not all to my taste.
            > >
            > > I was surprised when I saw the art of one of
            > > Tolkiens favorite middle earth artists, forgot the
            > > name, but I thought it was the worst portrayal of
            > > middle earth art I had ever seen, yet Tolkien
            > > actually purchased a couple of the artists
            > pintings.
            > > So I dont think there is need for some kind of
            > > Ultra-Orthodoxism regarding middle earth. As long
            > as
            > > one can be grounded in Tolkein thru his books we
            > can
            > > always explore the various flavors that are
            > > available. PJ's Lotr is another view of the
            > glorious
            > > epic.
            > >
            > > TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > >
            > > There are 10 messages in this issue.
            > >
            > > Topics in this digest:
            > >
            > > 1. Reading the books again, and also the
            > > Silmarillion...movies don't cut it
            > > From: "Mike Hayes"
            > > 2. A Conspiracy Unmasked.....WHAT happened to
            > Merry
            > > and Pippin the movies??????
            > > From: "Mike Hayes"
            > > 3. Christopher Tolkien.....his passions and
            > reasons
            > > From: "Mike Hayes"
            > > 4. Ten most disrespectul things about the
            > movies...
            > > From: "Mike Hayes"
            > > 5. Ironically....
            > > From: "Mike Hayes"
            > > 6. Re: Ironically....
            > > From: "amandak"
            > > 7. Re: Ironically....
            > > From: "Terry Canote"
            > > 8. Re: Re: Ironically....
            > > From: "Terry Canote"
            > > 9. Happy Easter!!!
            > > From: "George"
            > > 10. Re: Re: Ironically....
            > > From: Ronn! Blankenship
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            ________________________________________________________________________
            > >
            >
            ________________________________________________________________________
            > >
            > > Message: 1
            > > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:39:30 -0000
            > > From: "Mike Hayes"
            > > Subject: Reading the books again, and also the
            > > Silmarillion...movies don't cut it
            > >
            > > I've been delving into the books again recently,
            > and
            > > also at the same
            > > time going for reference into pieces of the
            > > Silmarillion and The Books
            > > of Lost Tales.
            > >
            > > I have to say, I was taken then by the breadth and
            > > scope of the movies
            > > as they came out. And I was impressed by PJ's
            > grasp
            > > of Middle Earth
            > > scenery and architecture and some of the battle
            > > scenes in terms of
            > > capturing their sheer size and violence.
            > >
            > > However, I think I have finally come full circle
            > in
            > > how I ultimately
            > > feel about them.
            > >
            > > After much, much careful consideration and
            > thought,
            > > my final feelings
            > > on the movies are......that they fail. That's not
            > to
            > > say that they
            > > don't have elements that capture the feel of
            > Middle
            > > Earth, or have the
            > > look of Middle Earth.
            > >
            > > The reason the movies fail is that, I came to the
            > > conclusion that
            > > others have, is that the Lord of the Rings was
            > never
            > > intended to be
            > > made into a movie and should not have been. And
            > > therefore, no matter
            > > what you try to do with the movies, the end result
            > > will be moot.
            > >
            > > I am feading The Fellowship of the Ring currently,
            > I
            > > finished up the
            > > Hobbit. Even being only less than a third a way
            > > through the story, I
            > > am remembering again just how much the characters
            > in
            > > the movies are
            > > trimmed back and diluted for time and space
            > > limitation. It really
            > > undermines and I think even disrepects Tolkien's
            > > vision very much.
            > >
            > > The problem is that the key characters of the
            > story:
            > > The Fellowship
            > > itself, and those they come into contact with, are
            > > developed over a
            > > huge amount of pages, and their personalities
            > > develop so gradually you
            > > get to know them very very intimately, and you
            > carry
            > > that with you as
            > > the story evolves and resolves.
            > >
            > > This does not even begin to happen in the movies,
            > > even though they are
            > > in their whole 12 hours long.
            > >
            > > Many have spoken of the absence of Tom Bombadil,
            > the
            > > Scouring of the
            > > Shire, etc. However, I see other absences that are
            > > just as hurtful to
            > > the story.
            > >
            > > To say the that movies "hurry" the story along is
            > a
            > > gross
            > > understatement. The hurriness in my opinion
            > > destroys, and I mean
            > > completely destroys what Tolkien was trying to
            > > achieve.
            > >
            > > For me, some of the best moments of the entire
            > story
            > > is the period
            > > Tolkien describes when Frodo is in the Shire as
            > the
            > > owner of the Ring,
            > > during Gandlaf's long absence while he is finding
            > > about the heritage of
            > > the Ring. This span of time is important to me as
            > a
            > > reader, because it
            > > builds up Frodo's life and develops his character
            > > and his life even
            > > before he goes on the quest. And it really helps
            > to
            > > build the
            > > believablitity of the vast amount of time that
            > > passes in Middle Earth.
            > > The fact that Frodo has the opportunity to spend
            > 17
            > > years in the Shire
            > > along side the chief object of evil of the entire
            > > story, to me simply
            >
            === message truncated ===


            __________________________________________________
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            Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
            of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
            and Calendar sections.
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Wilson, Bruce
            This artist is not attempting to share a realistic image of how he imagined the scene, but to give a semiabstract evocative expression of the scene. The
            Message 5 of 9 , May 3, 2005
              This artist is not attempting to share a 'realistic' image of how he
              imagined the scene, but to give a semiabstract evocative expression of
              the scene. The artist is, I think, Finnish or Estonian, and he comes
              from an established tradition of Scandinavian literary illustration.
              (Tove Johannson's own illustrations of her Moomin stories are an
              example.)

              JRRT himself didn't like extremely detailed 'realistic' illustrations of
              fantasy stories like the Brothers Hildebrant and discusses why in "On
              Fairy Stories."

              -----Original Message-----
              From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lisa B.
              Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:52 PM
              To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Love the Books and the Movies


              Yes....I think I know the paintings youre talking
              about. I was like "OMG what is this....why?". It was
              like Gollum the penquine and Bilbo the turd...pretty
              sure it was the most horrid thing I'd ever seen.

              Lisa



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jack
              Dutch, I think? Regards Jack ... From: Wilson, Bruce This artist is not attempting to share a realistic image of how he imagined the scene, but to give a
              Message 6 of 9 , May 3, 2005
                Dutch, I think?

                Regards
                Jack

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Wilson, Bruce
                This artist is not attempting to share a 'realistic' image of how he
                imagined the scene, but to give a semiabstract evocative expression of
                the scene. The artist is, I think, Finnish or Estonian, and he comes
                from an established tradition of Scandinavian literary illustration.
                (Tove Johannson's own illustrations of her Moomin stories are an
                example.)

                JRRT himself didn't like extremely detailed 'realistic' illustrations of
                fantasy stories like the Brothers Hildebrant and discusses why in "On
                Fairy Stories."

                -----Original Message-----
                From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lisa B.
                Yes....I think I know the paintings youre talking
                about. I was like "OMG what is this....why?". It was
                like Gollum the penquine and Bilbo the turd...pretty
                sure it was the most horrid thing I'd ever seen.

                Lisa



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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              • Mike Hayes
                ... of ... comes ... illustrations of ... in On
                Message 7 of 9 , May 3, 2005
                  --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Wilson, Bruce"
                  <brucewilson@m...> wrote:
                  > This artist is not attempting to share a 'realistic' image of how he
                  > imagined the scene, but to give a semiabstract evocative expression
                  of
                  > the scene. The artist is, I think, Finnish or Estonian, and he
                  comes
                  > from an established tradition of Scandinavian literary illustration.
                  > (Tove Johannson's own illustrations of her Moomin stories are an
                  > example.)
                  >
                  > JRRT himself didn't like extremely detailed 'realistic'
                  illustrations of
                  > fantasy stories like the Brothers Hildebrant and discusses why
                  in "On
                  > Fairy Stories."
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lisa B.
                  > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:52 PM
                  > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Love the Books and the Movies
                  >
                  >
                  > Yes....I think I know the paintings youre talking
                  > about. I was like "OMG what is this....why?". It was
                  > like Gollum the penquine and Bilbo the turd...pretty
                  > sure it was the most horrid thing I'd ever seen.
                  >
                  > Lisa
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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