Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Return of the King- the death of the Leader of the Nazgul
- On Sat, 1 May 2004 10:25:50 +1000 "Amy Black" <amyblack@...>
> Even Eowyn was terrified, till he revealed his undoing. Kind ofHow true. He had the seeds of his undoing within him. Keep that in mind,
> Darkness in Legend. If he had kepted his big mouth shut, he'd have
> won, the
any of you who may be planning to terrorize the world with your sorcery
and necromancer's arts!
> Well, that was 1 thing I thought about the books too. It said noAnd a Hobbit who was, at that, still technically underage, so could
> MAN could
> kill him, but it was a woman and a hobbit that did, no man
> Amy Black
actually be classed as a *boy* and not a "man" by the standards of his
own people! One of Tolkien's repeated themes was that where the strong
and mighty failed the weak and little were able to prevail so a woman in
a sexist society and a "halfling" generally held to be of little account
even by those who actually had heard of them did what others could not
do. Almost sounds like Tolkien cribbed from I Corinthians.
I'm presently working on a piece of fanfic about him and some of the
other Nazgul, that tries to exploit what I see as a couple of weaknesses.
It won't be ready for this round of Mithril awards, but maybe next
peter d sippel, Warminster, PA, USA
"We easily condemn our own vices in others."--George Dilwyn.
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- Merry being a Hobbit may not have had anything to do with it.
Remember the book says, "No other blade, not though mightier
hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so
bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his
unseen sinews to his will."
It' s possible that the Westernesse blade made the Witch-king
vulnerable but didn't kill him. Eowyn can then kill him because
he was just made vulnerable. I wonder if anyone - man, male or
whatever - could have wielded the Westernesse blade and
made the Witch-king susceptible? And, conversely, could Eowyn
have killed him if Merry hadn't cut his sinews? The prophecy
doesn't say that man *can't* kill him, just that no man *would.*
Of course, if I was a guy in Middle-earth, I'd be daunted by a
prophecy like that.....
"Amy Black" <amyblack@a...> wrote:
> Well, who the hell is going to go up against the Nazgul king?Be they elf,
> dwarf or troll? Because of the 'man' prophecy, no male daredto fight him.
> It wasn't until Eowyn faced him that maybe that 'Man' meant therace of man,
> not the ones with something dangling between their legs.wrong, but I
> This is all my thinking btw, and more then likely is completly
> just like the idea that men had it wrong all along and some elfwarrior
> could have come along and hacked his head off, when in theend, the great
> race of men, elves and dwarves, great warrior type peeps andscholars, are
> bested by a horse-riding woman and a hobbit :Pdeath of the
> Amy Black
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob <robaverbeck@c...>
> To: <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:44 AM
> Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Return of the King- the
> Leader of the NazgulPerhaps Tolkien
> > >Well, that was 1 thing I thought about the books too. It said
> > >no MAN could kill him, but it was a woman and a hobbit that
> > >did, no man whatsoever.
> > Says nothing about dwarves or elves, either, does it?
> > wanted us to see the disdain the Nazgul king had for his ownkind (they
> > were kings of men, after all, before their fall). The race of manwas
> > beneath his contempt or notice. (Which psychologically I'dsay mirrored
> > his own self-loathing at his own weakness which contributedto his
> > falling to Sauron in the first place, but no need to get THATdeeply
> > into it.) Contrasted to Aragorn and Boromir's attitudes (inbook or
> > movie, though those attitudes were slightly different from filmto
> > page).take advantage
> > Rob A.
> > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and
> > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database,Polls, Members,
> > and Calendar sections.
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
- It is my opinion that anyone could have killed the
Witch King, had they the power and the weapons. I
believe the "No man" part was just a prophecy (by
Glorfindel, wasn't it?) that it would be no mortal
man, and the Witch King went and took it has a sure
sign of his invincibility and began bragging about it.
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- Considering that JRRT was one of the translators of THE JERUSALEM BIBLE,
that is not unlikely.
From: peter d sippel [mailto:quakerpages@...]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Return of the King- the death of the
Leader of the Nazgul
On Sat, 1 May 2004 10:25:50 +1000 "Amy Black"
Almost sounds like Tolkien cribbed from I Corinthians.
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