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Re: Storms on Caradhas

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  • cleidoic
    ... I don t know. Like I ve said, I ve always had problems with this area of the books. I like the idea that Gandalf and The Bad Guy To Be Named Later were
    Message 1 of 237 , Mar 1, 2004
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      "Amy Black" <amyblack@a...> wrote:
      > Well, why don't we put these things together. Looking at just
      >the book, If it is indeed Sauron, then maybe his intention was, if
      >the mountain doesn't outright kill them, then they'll have to
      >either go through the gap of Rohan, which they wouldn;t do
      >because of Saruman, or go under the mountain, which
      > they *gandalf and crew* knew there was some sort of danger,
      >but not exactly sure. Sauron however, DOES know.

      I don't know. Like I've said, I've always had problems with this
      area of the books. I like the idea that Gandalf and The Bad Guy
      To Be Named Later were contending over the waking of
      Caradhras and not just that they were fighting long distance
      using storms. But I'm more inclined to pick the Bad Guy as
      Saruman. Partly because he's significantly closer to Caradhras
      than Sauron and Orthanc is actually on the southern end of the
      Misty Mountains. (I'm not sure why I think that counts, but it does
      for me somehow.) The crebain or black crows that were spying
      on the Redhorn Gate came from the Fangorn/Dunland area,
      which we know was under Saruman's control. Saruman knew
      that the Ring was found, and would guess that Gandalf would
      recommend destroying it. Therefore, Gandalf would have to
      head South - and there were only two ways to do so. Through
      Saruman's lands (which Gandalf wouldn't want to do) and over
      (or under) the Misty Mountains. Remember that Saruman has
      Orcs and Wargs - I think the Wargs that attack the Fellowship
      were meant to capture them and take them to Saruman, not drive
      Gandalf into Moria. For some reason, this is the 'vibe' I get from
      the books. But since this is the way I'd like it to be I'm probably
      reading too much into it.

      The reasons for me against Sauron are time-based. The Nine
      were un-horsed, and not being physical, and having trouble
      crossing water, would probably take a long time to get
      somewhere where they could at least send messages to
      Sauron (remember they have to return to Mordor to find steeds
      trained to bear them). Only then would Sauron know the Ring
      made it to Rivendell and to the *Elves*. At that point Sauron has
      no reason to think the Ring would be taken South. After all, the
      Elves hid the Three Rings and Sauron could expect them to do
      the same with the One, if Elrond or some Istari didn't try to wield
      it themselves. Therefore, Sauron would guess that the Ring
      might head *West* into Lindon. He would have to send spies to
      the West to try to pick up the trail of the Ring. Then his spies
      would have to report to him so he could plan a strategy if the
      Ring made it to, say, the Gray Havens. I think Gandalf's plan was
      to head south while Sauron was still searching Westward. This
      would give Gandalf the head start they desperately needed. I
      don't think Sauron finds out the Ring is heading East until the
      Orcs in Moria discover the Fellowship. But then again, this is the
      way I'd prefer it so take it for what it's worth. It's also perfectly
      plausible that Sauron would guess that the Ring might be sent
      to Lorien, so he'd search the Eastward routes as well. But if the
      Orcs and Wolves that chase the Fellowhip into Moria *came*
      from Moria, then why did it take the Orcs so long to become
      aware that the Fellowship was *in* Moria?

      I really like most of the elements from the scene on Caradhras,
      but if either Sauron or Saruman is behind the storm it causes
      some problems for me. I'd prefer the storm just be Caradhras'
      nasty nature. But if I have to live with either Sauron or Saruman,
      I'm choosing Saruman. I think his taste in interior design is far
      superior and the room service would be better, too! ;)

    • xnemesis01
      I ve always believed that the Palantíri were turned to each other. So, even if you had one, you would need to have another one in a useful location to see
      Message 237 of 237 , Mar 25, 2004
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        I've always believed that the Palantíri were turned to each other.
        So, even if you had one, you would need to have another one in a
        useful location to see anything at that location. I don't think that
        Sauron could simply want to see Amon Hen but that he would need a
        Stone there. This is demonstrated in the book where Pippin looks into
        the Orthanc stone and sees Sauron, who also sees him and believes
        Pippin to be the Ringbearer. Also, Denethor looked through the Anor
        stone and Sauron would show him visions of Gondor falling which
        eventually led him to believe that Gondor was doomed and Sauron would
        I think that the Hill of Seeing was the main factor behind that
        scene. Because if Sauron had been using a Palantír, he would have
        definitely seen Frodo (the Palantíri can't lie) and he thought
        Pippin had the Ring.
        Also, the person at the receiving end of a Palantír, no matter who
        they are, can't sense that they are being watched. The Palantíri,
        unlike say a Ring of Power, are not directly connected to the person
        guiding it so they can't be considered something that one could use
        to feel something. It is stated the Frodo can feel a shadow, so I'm
        led to believe that this was Sauron and his whole 'all-seeing eye'
        thing and Sauron's own connection to the Ring.
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