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Re: Wizards

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  • geltharin2003
    Or were all three ensnared by Sauron so to speak, and Saruman was the only one that he sent back to the west. Maybe the other two stayed in various areas
    Message 1 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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      Or were all three 'ensnared' by Sauron so to speak, and Saruman was
      the only one that he 'sent' back to the west. Maybe the other two
      stayed in various areas of the east to help Sauron maintain his hold
      over the people there.

      Robert

      --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "bungo_burrows"
      <yesgaz@i...> wrote:
      > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Info Servo
      > <informitor@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- geltharin2003 <geltharin2003@y...> wrote:
      > > > No, only five. My fancy has wondered a bit from
      > > > time to time what ever became of the two Blue wizards.
      > >
      > >
      > > It is possible that they wound up becoming servants of
      > > Sauron, like Saruman did. In fact, Saruman had
      > > accompanied them on their journey and wound up being
      > > the only of the three to make it back.
      > >
      > >
      > That thought makes me wonder if Saruman had even then begun to
      have
      > his dark thoughts and led these two wizards into a trap and gift-
      > wrapped them in a sense for Sauron or at least made a pact with
      > Sauron to help Sauron win Middle Earth.
    • Amy Black
      Or maybe they continued to the East past the maps that Tolkien drew? *shrugs* Why not? M-E kinda just...stops at Mordor, but there s more.. there has to an
      Message 2 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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        Or maybe they continued to the East past the maps that Tolkien drew? *shrugs* Why not? M-E kinda just...stops at Mordor, but there's more.. there has to an eastern coastline somewhere...
         
        Amy Black
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:13 PM
        Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Wizards

        Or were all three 'ensnared' by Sauron so to speak, and Saruman was
        the only one that he 'sent' back to the west.  Maybe the other two
        stayed in various areas of the east to help Sauron maintain his hold
        over the people there.

        Robert

        --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "bungo_burrows"
        <yesgaz@i...> wrote:
        > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Info Servo
        > <informitor@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- geltharin2003 <geltharin2003@y...> wrote:
        > > > No, only five.  My fancy has wondered a bit from
        > > > time to time what ever became of the two Blue wizards. 
        > >
        > >
        > > It is possible that they wound up becoming servants of
        > > Sauron, like Saruman did.  In fact, Saruman had
        > > accompanied them on their journey and wound up being
        > > the only of the three to make it back.
        > >
        > >
        > That thought makes me wonder if Saruman had even then begun to
        have
        > his dark thoughts and led these two wizards into a trap and gift-
        > wrapped them in a sense for Sauron or at least made a pact with
        > Sauron to help Sauron win Middle Earth.



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      • geltharin2003
        Well, to be honest, I have always taken the east to mean past Mordor. Because Mordor is only the beginning of the east Robert ... drew? *shrugs* Why not?
        Message 3 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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          Well, to be honest, I have always taken the 'east' to mean past
          Mordor. Because Mordor is only the beginning of the east

          Robert

          --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Black"
          <amyblack@a...> wrote:
          > Or maybe they continued to the East past the maps that Tolkien
          drew? *shrugs* Why not? M-E kinda just...stops at Mordor, but
          there's more.. there has to an eastern coastline somewhere...
          >
          > Amy Black
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: geltharin2003
          > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:13 PM
          > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Wizards
          >
          >
          > Or were all three 'ensnared' by Sauron so to speak, and Saruman
          was
          > the only one that he 'sent' back to the west. Maybe the other
          two
          > stayed in various areas of the east to help Sauron maintain his
          hold
          > over the people there.
          >
          > Robert
          >
          > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "bungo_burrows"
          > <yesgaz@i...> wrote:
          > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Info Servo
          > > <informitor@y...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > --- geltharin2003 <geltharin2003@y...> wrote:
          > > > > No, only five. My fancy has wondered a bit from
          > > > > time to time what ever became of the two Blue wizards.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > It is possible that they wound up becoming servants of
          > > > Sauron, like Saruman did. In fact, Saruman had
          > > > accompanied them on their journey and wound up being
          > > > the only of the three to make it back.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > That thought makes me wonder if Saruman had even then begun to
          > have
          > > his dark thoughts and led these two wizards into a trap and
          gift-
          > > wrapped them in a sense for Sauron or at least made a pact
          with
          > > Sauron to help Sauron win Middle Earth.
          >
          >
          >
          > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take
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          > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls,
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          >
          >
          >
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        • sandra maltez
          hy!!! I´ve been reading with some interest this mails about the blue wizards... The only thing i know is what Tolkien said about the two of them: What
          Message 4 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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            hy!!!

            I´ve been reading with some interest this mails about
            the blue wizards...

            The only thing i know is what Tolkien said about the
            two of them:
            "What success they [Alatar and Pallando] had I do not
            know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though
            doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were
            the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic'
            traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron."

            I´ve started to pay more attention to the blue wizards
            a few time ago after reading a chapter from "The
            Peoples of Middle Earth" about the rising of a New
            Shadow. This took place 100 years after Elessar´s
            death.
            It started like a cult and the name of Herumor was
            implicit. This came like a shock to me, so i´ve
            started some investigations.
            Tolkien said that the two blue wizards could have been
            the founders of cults, so maybe they were involved in
            this new shadow.




            > Well, to be honest, I have always taken the 'east'
            > to mean past
            > Mordor. Because Mordor is only the beginning of the
            > east
            >
            > Robert
            >

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          • sandra maltez
            hello!!! I know i´ve been away for some time. Life´s complicated! :-) I´ve been reading with some interest this mails about the blue wizards... The only
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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              hello!!!

              I know i´ve been away for some time. Life´s
              complicated! :-)

              I´ve been reading with some interest this mails about
              the blue wizards...

              The only thing i know is what Tolkien said about the
              two of them:
              "What success they [Alatar and Pallando] had I do not
              know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though
              doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were
              the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic'
              traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron."

              I´ve started to pay more attention to the blue wizards
              a few time ago after reading a chapter from "The
              Peoples of Middle Earth" about the rising of a New
              Shadow. It took place 100 years after Elessar´s death.

              It started like a cult and the name of Herumor was
              implicit. This came like a shock to me, so i´ve
              started some investigations. But Tolkien didn´t
              finish, so it remains a mistery!
              Tolkien said that the two blue wizards could have been
              the founders of cults, so maybe they were involved in
              this new shadow.
              but....
              Who knows?!

              Well, i thought i should say something about the
              subject, i hope you don´t mind!!!

              see you ppl later!!!
              bye
              sandy



              > Well, to be honest, I have always taken the 'east'
              > to mean past
              > Mordor. Because Mordor is only the beginning of the
              > east
              >
              > Robert
              >

              >
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              > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online
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            • SHADOW Kamen
              ... Or were all three ensnared by Sauron so to speak, and Saruman was the only one that he sent back to the west. Maybe the other two stayed in various
              Message 6 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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                --- "geltharin2003" <geltharin2003@...> wrote:
                Or were all three 'ensnared' by Sauron so to speak, and Saruman was
                the only one that he 'sent' back to the west. Maybe the other two
                stayed in various areas of the east to help Sauron maintain his hold
                over the people there.

                Robert




                That is a possibility. One of Tolkien's suggestions was that they supported his rule with their powers, possibly raising up people in the black arts, such as the Mouth of Sauron.





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              • SHADOW Kamen
                ... Or maybe they continued to the East past the maps that Tolkien drew? *shrugs* Why not? M-E kinda just...stops at Mordor, but there s more.. there has to an
                Message 7 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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                  --- "Amy Black" <amyblack@...> wrote:
                  Or maybe they continued to the East past the maps that Tolkien drew? *shrugs* Why not? M-E kinda just...stops at Mordor, but there's more.. there has to an eastern coastline somewhere...

                  Amy Black



                  Just about everything east and south of Mordor had fallen to Sauron at one point or another.





                  SHADOWKamen.

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                • geltharin2003
                  Well, there s something I didn t know. I might have to check this book out. Robert ... _____________________________________________________________________ _
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jan 1, 2004
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                    Well, there's something I didn't know. I might have to check this
                    book out.

                    Robert

                    --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, sandra maltez
                    <violetrose202000@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > hy!!!
                    >
                    > I´ve been reading with some interest this mails about
                    > the blue wizards...
                    >
                    > The only thing i know is what Tolkien said about the
                    > two of them:
                    > "What success they [Alatar and Pallando] had I do not
                    > know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though
                    > doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were
                    > the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic'
                    > traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron."
                    >
                    > I´ve started to pay more attention to the blue wizards
                    > a few time ago after reading a chapter from "The
                    > Peoples of Middle Earth" about the rising of a New
                    > Shadow. This took place 100 years after Elessar´s
                    > death.
                    > It started like a cult and the name of Herumor was
                    > implicit. This came like a shock to me, so i´ve
                    > started some investigations.
                    > Tolkien said that the two blue wizards could have been
                    > the founders of cults, so maybe they were involved in
                    > this new shadow.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > Well, to be honest, I have always taken the 'east'
                    > > to mean past
                    > > Mordor. Because Mordor is only the beginning of the
                    > > east
                    > >
                    > > Robert
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > -----------
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > >
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions/
                    > > >
                    > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                    > > email to:
                    > > > TolkienDiscussions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >
                    > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > the Yahoo! Terms
                    > > of Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online
                    > > and take advantage
                    > > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links,
                    > > Database, Polls, Members,
                    > > and Calendar sections.
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions/
                    > >
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                    > >
                    >
                    >
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