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Lord of the Rings

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  • Jack
    From my Moral Depravity list ... Jack (Lead me not into temptation, for you are slow and will only get in my way) Click here for jokes, cartoons and voluptuous
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 22, 2003
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      From my Moral Depravity list



      :o)
      Jack
      (Lead me not into temptation, for you are slow and will only get in my way)
      Click here for jokes, cartoons and voluptuous redheads!
      mailto:moraldepravity-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

      PS I lied about the redheads
    • poikaa
      This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are new scenes I ve not seen before. Enjoy! Rod
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 25, 2011
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        This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are new scenes I've not seen before.

        Enjoy! Rod
      • Jack
        Are they showing the director s cut version? ... From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa Sent:
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 26, 2011
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          Are they showing the director's cut version?

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
          Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
          To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings

          This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are
          new scenes I've not seen before.

          Enjoy! Rod



          ------------------------------------

          Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
          of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
          and Calendar sections.
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        • poikaa
          Yes they are.... not bad picture either! Rod
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 26, 2011
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            Yes they are.... not bad picture either!

            Rod

            --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@...> wrote:
            >
            > Are they showing the director's cut version?
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
            > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
            > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
            >
            > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are
            > new scenes I've not seen before.
            >
            > Enjoy! Rod
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
            > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
            > and Calendar sections.
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • Jack
            Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions... Definitely worth getting them ... From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 26, 2011
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              Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
              Definitely worth getting them


              -----Original Message-----
              From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
              Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
              To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

              Yes they are.... not bad picture either!

              Rod

              --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@...> wrote:
              >
              > Are they showing the director's cut version?
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
              > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
              > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
              >
              > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are
              > new scenes I've not seen before.
              >
              > Enjoy! Rod
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
              > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
              > and Calendar sections.
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >




              ------------------------------------

              Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
              of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
              and Calendar sections.
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • poikaa
              In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai fight, one escapes
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 28, 2011
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                In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai fight, one escapes with the shirt in hand.
                later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death" Then Strider lops his head off.
                Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in the theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
                I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so many years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!

                Rod


                --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@...> wrote:
                >
                > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
                > Definitely worth getting them
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
                > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                >
                > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
                >
                > Rod
                >
                > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
                > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
                > >
                > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are
                > > new scenes I've not seen before.
                > >
                > > Enjoy! Rod
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                > > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                > > and Calendar sections.
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                > and Calendar sections.
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
              • Jack
                Not far from the book - although the Mouth of Sauron doesn t die - Aragorn only gives him a look until he quails... ... From:
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 28, 2011
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                  Not far from the book - although the Mouth of Sauron doesn't die - Aragorn
                  only gives him a look until he quails...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                  Sent: 28 November 2011 18:29
                  To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings



                  In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the
                  tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai fight,
                  one escapes with the shirt in hand.
                  later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth
                  tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death" Then
                  Strider lops his head off.
                  Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in the
                  theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
                  I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very
                  close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so many
                  years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!

                  Rod


                  --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
                  > Definitely worth getting them
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                  > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
                  > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                  >
                  > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
                  >
                  > Rod
                  >
                  > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                  > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
                  > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
                  > >
                  > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there
                  are
                  > > new scenes I've not seen before.
                  > >
                  > > Enjoy! Rod
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                  > > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                  > > and Calendar sections.
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                  > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                  > and Calendar sections.
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >




                  ------------------------------------

                  Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                  of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                  and Calendar sections.
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Freeman Ng
                  In the book, the Mouth of Sauron doesn t say Frodo is dead, but that he is captured and now undergo torture as long and slow as our arts can contrive unless
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 28, 2011
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                    In the book, the Mouth of Sauron doesn't say Frodo is dead, but that he is captured and now undergo torture "as long and slow as our arts can contrive" unless the forces of the West surrender immediately and unconditionally. For a moment, everyone is sure Gandalf is going to submit, but of course it's just Tolkien building some dramatic tension in the scene before Gandalf refuses. Aragorn doesn't attack him physically, but does hold his eye wordlessly until the Mouth recoils in fear.

                    Though this is a powerful scene from the books, I've always thought the suspense over how Gandalf would respond was not very plausible. Who could possibly have thought Gandalf would really surrender? (The exact language is quite strong: "They did not doubt but that he would accept." Really?) Also: it might even be the case that Gandalf knew the Mouth was lying. After all, if they really had Frodo, they'd have the ring, too, and this conversation would not even be happening. And the Mouth doesn't mention Sam at all.

                    Freeman

                    _

                    || Freeman Ng - author, poet, software developer
                    ||   www.HaikuDiem.com 
                    ||   www.PleasePublishJoan.com 
                    ||   www.FreemanNg.net 
                    *


                    On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM, poikaa <kb8dns@...> wrote:
                     



                    In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai fight, one escapes with the shirt in hand.
                    later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death" Then Strider lops his head off.
                    Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in the theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
                    I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so many years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!



                    Rod

                    --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
                    > Definitely worth getting them
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                    > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
                    > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                    >
                    > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
                    >
                    > Rod
                    >
                    > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                    > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                    > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
                    > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
                    > >
                    > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there are
                    > > new scenes I've not seen before.
                    > >
                    > > Enjoy! Rod
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                    > > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                    > > and Calendar sections.
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                    > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                    > and Calendar sections.
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >


                  • Rob
                    Haven t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release), but IIRC I really liked how Jackson handled the scene. Having the Mouth
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 28, 2011
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                      Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release), but IIRC I really liked how Jackson handled the scene. Having the Mouth make his pronouncements with an eye toward dispiriting them when he actually lets them know Frodo is alive and Sauron does not have the ring was a great turnabout. I also liked that Aragorn rode out to fight even though at the time they believed Sauron did have the ring and that all was lost.

                       

                      Rob

                    • Ronn! Blankenship
                      At 04:38 PM Monday 11/28/2011, Rob wrote: Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release) That being the opposite of the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                        At 04:38 PM Monday 11/28/2011, Rob wrote:
                         

                        Haven�t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release)



                        That being the opposite of the HD version?  :D

                        . . . ronn!  :)

                      • Jack
                        Of course, they left Minas Tirith to distract Sauron from the Ringbearer s journey, with no great hope of returning Jack From:
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                          Of course, they left Minas Tirith to distract Sauron from the Ringbearer’s journey, with no great hope of returning

                          Jack

                           

                          From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob
                          Sent: 28 November 2011 22:39
                          To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

                           




                          Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release), but IIRC I really liked how Jackson handled the scene. Having the Mouth make his pronouncements with an eye toward dispiriting them when he actually lets them know Frodo is alive and Sauron does not have the ring was a great turnabout. I also liked that Aragorn rode out to fight even though at the time they believed Sauron did have the ring and that all was lost.

                           

                          Rob




                        • Rob
                          Yes, and let me tell you I was extremely upset when I popped the discs into my player. Though I was glad to learn I was not losing my eyesight, but that it was
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                            Yes, and let me tell you I was extremely upset when I popped the discs into my player. Though I was glad to learn I was not losing my eyesight, but that it was the discs. I don't think there's a huge market for this format in the future, but what do I know?

                            Rob

                            On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <ronn_blankenship@...> wrote:
                             

                            At 04:38 PM Monday 11/28/2011, Rob wrote:

                             

                            Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release)



                            That being the opposite of the HD version?  :D

                            . . . ronn!  :)

                            __._,_

                          • Jack
                            I ve never seen BluRay - so your comments surprised me. My FIL is talking about getting himself a Bluray machine I should maybe warn him about your experience
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                              I’ve never seen BluRay – so your comments surprised me.

                              My FIL is talking about getting himself a Bluray machine

                              I should maybe warn him about your experience

                              Jack

                               

                              From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob
                              Sent: 29 November 2011 08:43
                              To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

                               



                              Yes, and let me tell you I was extremely upset when I popped the discs into my player. Though I was glad to learn I was not losing my eyesight, but that it was the discs. I don't think there's a huge market for this format in the future, but what do I know?

                              Rob

                              On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <ronn_blankenship@...> wrote:

                               

                              At 04:38 PM Monday 11/28/2011, Rob wrote:

                               

                              Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting for the Extended Blur-Ray release)




                              That being the opposite of the HD version?  :D

                              . . . ronn!  :)

                              __._,_





                            • whiteladyofrohan@aol.com
                              Jack, check out the misspelling. I think that will (ahem) clear things up for you. ;-) One does not read The Silmarillion; one either abandons it in bored
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                Jack, check out the misspelling.  I think that will (ahem) clear things up for you.

                                ;-)



                                "One does not read The Silmarillion; one either abandons it in bored disgust, or else one lives in it."
                                Peter Kreeft, 'Afterword: The Wonder of the Silmarillion', Shadows of Imagination (1979)


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Jack <jack@...>
                                To: TolkienDiscussions <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 4:43 am
                                Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

                                 
                                I’ve never seen BluRay – so your comments surprised me.
                                My FIL is talking about getting himself a Bluray machine
                                I should maybe warn him about your experience
                                Jack
                                 
                                From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob
                                Sent: 29 November 2011 08:43
                                To: TolkienDiscus sions@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                                 


                                Yes, and let me tell you I was extremely upset when I popped the discs into my player. Though I was glad to learn I was not losing my eyesight, but that it was the discs. I don't think there's a huge market for this format in the future, but what do I know?

                                Rob
                                On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <ronn_blankenship@...> wrote:
                                 
                                At 04:38 PM Monday 11/28/2011, Rob wrote:
                                 

                                Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting fo r the Extended Blur-Ray release)



                                That being the opposite of the HD version?  :D
                                . . . ronn!  :)
                                __._,_




                              • Jack
                                You mean Blur-ray? I thought that was Rob being disappointed From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                  You mean Blur-ray?

                                  I thought that was Rob being disappointed

                                   

                                  From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of whiteladyofrohan@...
                                  Sent: 29 November 2011 16:37
                                  To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

                                   




                                  Jack, check out the misspelling.  I think that will (ahem) clear things up for you.

                                  ;-)

                                   

                                  "One does not read The Silmarillion; one either abandons it in bored disgust, or else one lives in it."
                                  Peter Kreeft, 'Afterword: The Wonder of the Silmarillion', Shadows of Imagination (1979)

                                   

                                   

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Jack <jack@...>
                                  To: TolkienDiscussions <TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 4:43 am
                                  Subject: RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

                                   

                                  I’ve never seen BluRay – so your comments surprised me.

                                  My FIL is talking about getting himself a Bluray machine

                                  I should maybe warn him about your experience

                                  Jack

                                   

                                  From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob
                                  Sent: 29 November 2011 08:43
                                  To: TolkienDiscus sions@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings

                                   



                                  Yes, and let me tell you I was extremely upset when I popped the discs into my player. Though I was glad to learn I was not losing my eyesight, but that it was the discs. I don't think there's a huge market for this format in the future, but what do I know?

                                  Rob

                                  On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <ronn_blankenship@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  At 04:38 PM Monday 11/28/2011, Rob wrote:

                                   

                                  Haven’t watched the films in awhile (been waiting fo r the Extended Blur-Ray release)




                                  That being the opposite of the HD version?  :D

                                  . . . ronn!  :)

                                  __._,_







                                • Rob
                                  I am often disappointed in life, but not with blu-rays. They look great. I m now kicking
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                    <<You mean Blur-ray?

                                    I thought that was Rob being disappointed>>

                                     

                                    I am often disappointed in life, but not with blu-rays. They look great. I’m now kicking myself for not buying the LotR Blu-rays over the weekend. They are about $14 more for the set today!

                                     

                                     

                                    Well, they’ll likely fall in price again sometime before Christmas. I hope so!

                                     

                                    Rob

                                  • Morjuc
                                    I always thought this was a very exciting part of the book...because you re right. There are so many questions to ask oneself... What is going is going on
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 29, 2011
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                                      I always thought this was a very exciting part of the book...because you're right. There are so many questions to ask oneself... What is going is going on with everyone? Would they really believe Gandalf would give in? What would happen if he did?
                                      But just to play devil's advocate, there's the whole effect of sauron/mordor/nazgul. I wouldn't be surprised if just being near someone so creepy as the mouth of sauron could have an effect upon one's spirit. Also, the rest of the fellowship...and western lands in general...just finished putting great ammounts of effort into battles that, in the end, won't decide their future. So, even with all the flaws in the Mouth Of Sauron's attempts at causing them to surrender, maybe they could believe such things, if just because it's probably their worst fear at this point...

                                      Alyssa

                                      --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Freeman Ng <Freeman@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > In the book, the Mouth of Sauron doesn't say Frodo is dead, but that he is
                                      > captured and now undergo torture "as long and slow as our arts can
                                      > contrive" unless the forces of the West surrender immediately and
                                      > unconditionally. For a moment, everyone is sure Gandalf is going to submit,
                                      > but of course it's just Tolkien building some dramatic tension in the scene
                                      > before Gandalf refuses. Aragorn doesn't attack him physically, but does
                                      > hold his eye wordlessly until the Mouth recoils in fear.
                                      >
                                      > Though this is a powerful scene from the books, I've always thought the
                                      > suspense over how Gandalf would respond was not very plausible. Who could
                                      > possibly have thought Gandalf would really surrender? (The exact language
                                      > is quite strong: "They did not doubt but that he would accept." Really?)
                                      > Also: it might even be the case that Gandalf knew the Mouth was lying.
                                      > After all, if they really had Frodo, they'd have the ring, too, and this
                                      > conversation would not even be happening. And the Mouth doesn't mention Sam
                                      > at all.
                                      >
                                      > Freeman*
                                      >
                                      > _*
                                      > *||* *Freeman Ng - author, poet, software developer*
                                      > *||* www.HaikuDiem.com
                                      > *||* www.PleasePublishJoan.com
                                      > *||* www.FreemanNg.net
                                      > ***
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM, poikaa <kb8dns@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > **
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the
                                      > > tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai fight,
                                      > > one escapes with the shirt in hand.
                                      > > later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth
                                      > > tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death" Then
                                      > > Strider lops his head off.
                                      > > Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in the
                                      > > theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
                                      > > I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very
                                      > > close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so many
                                      > > years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Rod
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
                                      > > > Definitely worth getting them
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                                      > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
                                      > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Rod
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                                      > > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
                                      > > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there
                                      > > are
                                      > > > > new scenes I've not seen before.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Enjoy! Rod
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                                      > > > > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                                      > > > > and Calendar sections.
                                      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ------------------------------------
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Come and visit our Tolkien Discussions group online and take advantage
                                      > > > of our Messages, Chat, Files, Photos, Links, Database, Polls, Members,
                                      > > > and Calendar sections.
                                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TolkienDiscussions
                                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Freeman Ng
                                      That s a good point that also applies to another scene I ve always been unsatisfied with: the parley at the door of Orthanc when Saruman uses his persuasive
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 30, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        That's a good point that also applies to another scene I've always been unsatisfied with: the parley at the door of Orthanc when Saruman uses his persuasive powers on Theoden and Gandalf. We're told that he has magical powers of persuasion, and the suspense in the scene is based on that, but to me the reader, unaffected by Saruman's magic, his words just sound lame and obviously unreliable. So you could say that this was another case of "you had to be there."

                                        On the other hand, this is exactly the author's job: to put me there. And we shouldn't underestimate the magic of the written word. I firmly believe it ought to have been possible to make me feel the real tension in those scenes better. This is not a serious criticism of Tolkien, of course. He did so much else so well, and no author is going to hit every beat perfectly.


                                        On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Morjuc <morjuc@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        I always thought this was a very exciting part of the book...because you're right. There are so many questions to ask oneself... What is going is going on with everyone? Would they really believe Gandalf would give in? What would happen if he did?
                                        But just to play devil's advocate, there's the whole effect of sauron/mordor/nazgul. I wouldn't be surprised if just being near someone so creepy as the mouth of sauron could have an effect upon one's spirit. Also, the rest of the fellowship...and western lands in general...just finished putting great ammounts of effort into battles that, in the end, won't decide their future. So, even with all the flaws in the Mouth Of Sauron's attempts at causing them to surrender, maybe they could believe such things, if just because it's probably their worst fear at this point...

                                        Alyssa



                                        --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Freeman Ng <Freeman@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > In the book, the Mouth of Sauron doesn't say Frodo is dead, but that he is
                                        > captured and now undergo torture "as long and slow as our arts can
                                        > contrive" unless the forces of the West surrender immediately and
                                        > unconditionally. For a moment, everyone is sure Gandalf is going to submit,
                                        > but of course it's just Tolkien building some dramatic tension in the scene
                                        > before Gandalf refuses. Aragorn doesn't attack him physically, but does
                                        > hold his eye wordlessly until the Mouth recoils in fear.
                                        >
                                        > Though this is a powerful scene from the books, I've always thought the
                                        > suspense over how Gandalf would respond was not very plausible. Who could
                                        > possibly have thought Gandalf would really surrender? (The exact language
                                        > is quite strong: "They did not doubt but that he would accept." Really?)
                                        > Also: it might even be the case that Gandalf knew the Mouth was lying.
                                        > After all, if they really had Frodo, they'd have the ring, too, and this
                                        > conversation would not even be happening. And the Mouth doesn't mention Sam
                                        > at all.
                                        >
                                        > Freeman*
                                        >
                                        > _*
                                        > *||* *Freeman Ng - author, poet, software developer*
                                        > *||* www.HaikuDiem.com
                                        > *||* www.PleasePublishJoan.com
                                        > *||* www.FreemanNg.net
                                        > ***
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM, poikaa <kb8dns@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > **

                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the
                                        > > tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai fight,
                                        > > one escapes with the shirt in hand.
                                        > > later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth
                                        > > tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death" Then
                                        > > Strider lops his head off.
                                        > > Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in the
                                        > > theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
                                        > > I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very
                                        > > close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so many
                                        > > years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Rod
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
                                        > > > Definitely worth getting them
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                                        > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
                                        > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Rod
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                                        > > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
                                        > > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems there
                                        > > are
                                        > > > > new scenes I've not seen before.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Enjoy! Rod
                                        > > > >

                                      • Morjuc
                                        You re exactly right...The author is supposed to make you feel strongly about the things he does...Like the nazgul in FotR. They were very scary and creepy
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 2, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          You're exactly right...The author is supposed to make you feel strongly about the things he does...Like the nazgul in FotR. They were very scary and creepy and one gets very anxious about the hobbits. The parley scene does not quite match that for awsomeness. But that's okay. If books could be perfect, then there would be fewer of them, as I can't imagine many people wanting to write if the 'perfet' novel was already written.
                                          Alyssa

                                          --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Freeman Ng <Freeman@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > That's a good point that also applies to another scene I've always been
                                          > unsatisfied with: the parley at the door of Orthanc when Saruman uses his
                                          > persuasive powers on Theoden and Gandalf. We're told that he has magical
                                          > powers of persuasion, and the suspense in the scene is based on that, but
                                          > to me the reader, unaffected by Saruman's magic, his words just sound lame
                                          > and obviously unreliable. So you could say that this was another case of
                                          > "you had to be there."
                                          >
                                          > On the other hand, this is exactly the author's job: to put me there. And
                                          > we shouldn't underestimate the magic of the written word. I firmly believe
                                          > it ought to have been possible to make me feel the real tension in those
                                          > scenes better. This is not a serious criticism of Tolkien, of course. He
                                          > did so much else so well, and no author is going to hit every beat
                                          > perfectly.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Morjuc <morjuc@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > **
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > I always thought this was a very exciting part of the book...because
                                          > > you're right. There are so many questions to ask oneself... What is going
                                          > > is going on with everyone? Would they really believe Gandalf would give in?
                                          > > What would happen if he did?
                                          > > But just to play devil's advocate, there's the whole effect of
                                          > > sauron/mordor/nazgul. I wouldn't be surprised if just being near someone so
                                          > > creepy as the mouth of sauron could have an effect upon one's spirit. Also,
                                          > > the rest of the fellowship...and western lands in general...just finished
                                          > > putting great ammounts of effort into battles that, in the end, won't
                                          > > decide their future. So, even with all the flaws in the Mouth Of Sauron's
                                          > > attempts at causing them to surrender, maybe they could believe such
                                          > > things, if just because it's probably their worst fear at this point...
                                          > >
                                          > > Alyssa
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Freeman Ng <Freeman@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > In the book, the Mouth of Sauron doesn't say Frodo is dead, but that he
                                          > > is
                                          > > > captured and now undergo torture "as long and slow as our arts can
                                          > > > contrive" unless the forces of the West surrender immediately and
                                          > > > unconditionally. For a moment, everyone is sure Gandalf is going to
                                          > > submit,
                                          > > > but of course it's just Tolkien building some dramatic tension in the
                                          > > scene
                                          > > > before Gandalf refuses. Aragorn doesn't attack him physically, but does
                                          > > > hold his eye wordlessly until the Mouth recoils in fear.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Though this is a powerful scene from the books, I've always thought the
                                          > > > suspense over how Gandalf would respond was not very plausible. Who could
                                          > > > possibly have thought Gandalf would really surrender? (The exact language
                                          > > > is quite strong: "They did not doubt but that he would accept." Really?)
                                          > > > Also: it might even be the case that Gandalf knew the Mouth was lying.
                                          > > > After all, if they really had Frodo, they'd have the ring, too, and this
                                          > > > conversation would not even be happening. And the Mouth doesn't mention
                                          > > Sam
                                          > > > at all.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Freeman*
                                          > > >
                                          > > > _*
                                          > > > *||* *Freeman Ng - author, poet, software developer*
                                          > > > *||* www.HaikuDiem.com
                                          > > > *||* www.PleasePublishJoan.com
                                          > > > *||* www.FreemanNg.net
                                          > > > ***
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM, poikaa <kb8dns@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > **
                                          > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the
                                          > > > > tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai
                                          > > fight,
                                          > > > > one escapes with the shirt in hand.
                                          > > > > later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth
                                          > > > > tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death"
                                          > > Then
                                          > > > > Strider lops his head off.
                                          > > > > Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
                                          > > > > I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very
                                          > > > > close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so
                                          > > many
                                          > > > > years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Rod
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
                                          > > > > > Definitely worth getting them
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                                          > > > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
                                          > > > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Rod
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > > > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
                                          > > > > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
                                          > > > > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems
                                          > > there
                                          > > > > are
                                          > > > > > > new scenes I've not seen before.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Enjoy! Rod
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
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