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19468Re: Lord of the Rings

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  • Morjuc
    Dec 2, 2011
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      You're exactly right...The author is supposed to make you feel strongly about the things he does...Like the nazgul in FotR. They were very scary and creepy and one gets very anxious about the hobbits. The parley scene does not quite match that for awsomeness. But that's okay. If books could be perfect, then there would be fewer of them, as I can't imagine many people wanting to write if the 'perfet' novel was already written.
      Alyssa

      --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Freeman Ng <Freeman@...> wrote:
      >
      > That's a good point that also applies to another scene I've always been
      > unsatisfied with: the parley at the door of Orthanc when Saruman uses his
      > persuasive powers on Theoden and Gandalf. We're told that he has magical
      > powers of persuasion, and the suspense in the scene is based on that, but
      > to me the reader, unaffected by Saruman's magic, his words just sound lame
      > and obviously unreliable. So you could say that this was another case of
      > "you had to be there."
      >
      > On the other hand, this is exactly the author's job: to put me there. And
      > we shouldn't underestimate the magic of the written word. I firmly believe
      > it ought to have been possible to make me feel the real tension in those
      > scenes better. This is not a serious criticism of Tolkien, of course. He
      > did so much else so well, and no author is going to hit every beat
      > perfectly.
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Morjuc <morjuc@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > I always thought this was a very exciting part of the book...because
      > > you're right. There are so many questions to ask oneself... What is going
      > > is going on with everyone? Would they really believe Gandalf would give in?
      > > What would happen if he did?
      > > But just to play devil's advocate, there's the whole effect of
      > > sauron/mordor/nazgul. I wouldn't be surprised if just being near someone so
      > > creepy as the mouth of sauron could have an effect upon one's spirit. Also,
      > > the rest of the fellowship...and western lands in general...just finished
      > > putting great ammounts of effort into battles that, in the end, won't
      > > decide their future. So, even with all the flaws in the Mouth Of Sauron's
      > > attempts at causing them to surrender, maybe they could believe such
      > > things, if just because it's probably their worst fear at this point...
      > >
      > > Alyssa
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, Freeman Ng <Freeman@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > In the book, the Mouth of Sauron doesn't say Frodo is dead, but that he
      > > is
      > > > captured and now undergo torture "as long and slow as our arts can
      > > > contrive" unless the forces of the West surrender immediately and
      > > > unconditionally. For a moment, everyone is sure Gandalf is going to
      > > submit,
      > > > but of course it's just Tolkien building some dramatic tension in the
      > > scene
      > > > before Gandalf refuses. Aragorn doesn't attack him physically, but does
      > > > hold his eye wordlessly until the Mouth recoils in fear.
      > > >
      > > > Though this is a powerful scene from the books, I've always thought the
      > > > suspense over how Gandalf would respond was not very plausible. Who could
      > > > possibly have thought Gandalf would really surrender? (The exact language
      > > > is quite strong: "They did not doubt but that he would accept." Really?)
      > > > Also: it might even be the case that Gandalf knew the Mouth was lying.
      > > > After all, if they really had Frodo, they'd have the ring, too, and this
      > > > conversation would not even be happening. And the Mouth doesn't mention
      > > Sam
      > > > at all.
      > > >
      > > > Freeman*
      > > >
      > > > _*
      > > > *||* *Freeman Ng - author, poet, software developer*
      > > > *||* www.HaikuDiem.com
      > > > *||* www.PleasePublishJoan.com
      > > > *||* www.FreemanNg.net
      > > > ***
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:28 AM, poikaa <kb8dns@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > In the third part, Frodo looses his Mithrial shirt to the orcs in the
      > > > > tower after his encounter with Shelob. After the orc versus Urikai
      > > fight,
      > > > > one escapes with the shirt in hand.
      > > > > later when the Gondor army gathers at the Black Gate, Sauron's Mouth
      > > > > tosses the shirt to Gandalf saying "the hafling died a terrible death"
      > > Then
      > > > > Strider lops his head off.
      > > > > Now I do not remember this from the book and it certainly was not in
      > > the
      > > > > theater release! Sauron's Mouth is certainly an interesting character!
      > > > > I have to admit that Jackson's vision of the books put to film was very
      > > > > close to what my mind's eye saw as I read the books in high school so
      > > many
      > > > > years ago! I do not even think Jackson was born when I was in school!
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Rod
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Yes, the extra scenes were released on DVD special editions...
      > > > > > Definitely worth getting them
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
      > > > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 14:15
      > > > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Re: Lord of the Rings
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Yes they are.... not bad picture either!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Rod
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com, "Jack" <jack@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Are they showing the director's cut version?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > > > From: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > [mailto:TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of poikaa
      > > > > > > Sent: 26 November 2011 06:19
      > > > > > > To: TolkienDiscussions@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > Subject: [TolkienDiscussions] Lord of the Rings
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > This weekend the trilogy is being shown in HD on Encore. Seems
      > > there
      > > > > are
      > > > > > > new scenes I've not seen before.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Enjoy! Rod
      > > > > > >
      > >
      >
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