17987RE: [TolkienDiscussions] Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
- Jun 5, 2007Quoting Rob <fredwestermeyer@...>:
> <<Maeglin is bitter because of his virtual imprisonment in Gondolin; andAgreed.
> because of the death of his father, Eol, and mother, Aredhel, resulting from
> Turgon's rules about no one leaving Gondolin who knows the way in; and... He
> resents Hurin and Huor because they are allowed the freedom that he and his
> mother were denied. He will resent Huor's son Tuor even MORE in a few
> chatper's time!>>
> I think Maeglin is justifiably angry at this sometimes yes, sometimes no
> policy of Turgon's.
Turgon is (justifiably) paranoid.
> First, Turgon's policy that basically entraps elves to living in his city isThe Elves have to be there of their own free will. Before entering the city,
> basically unsupportable, IMO. You can not imprison free peoples and a policy
> which advocates this is doomed to fail at some point. Besides just being
> morally iffy, it is not sustainable.
they should have to agree that this is what they want for their lives. If others
arrive from the outside, they ALL have to be killed if they do not agree to
remain in the city. Still, such policies are unsustainable, that is true.
The world outside of Gondolin is a wretched place. If Turgon's policy could
work, it is certainly the best way to prevent destruction by Melkor. Ultimately,
Turgon should not have left Valinor if he wanted to be sequestered from the
influence of Melkor. Only in Valinor could he be safe. He is probably less free
in Gondolin than he would have been in Valinor.
> Second, if you DO have such a policy, you can't pick and choose to whom itTurgon sent out spies, emissaries to Valinor, and his sister Aredhel. All of
> applies. Can Turgon himself leave the city? Can his royal family? Certainly
> his spies would be able to leave, right, to gather intelligence?
those individuals could have been captured by Melkor and enthralled. In letting
those people out, he put Gondolin at risk from invasion. Also by letting those
people out, he puts Gondolin at risk from within by those who would resent his
policies ... such as the children of the Elves who had agreed to Turgon's
policy. What choice in life do the offspring of the founders of Gondolin have?
> RegardlessBig mistake, yes, but the doom of Noldor was upon him. It is his fate to
> of all that, Turgon makes a big mistake in letting Hurin and Huor go when he
> has gone to such extremes with Eol and Maeglin. Turgon should not have
> pushed his policy so far when push came to shove with Eol, and when he did,
> he locked himself into a certain mode of enforcement that he should not have
> changed for the men.
> Maeglin is justifiably angry that Turgon allowed his father to be killedAgreed. We will soon see that resentment turn into action!
> while he lets the men go. And Turgon is a fool for not being able to
> understand that his actions have sown in Maeglin the seeds of anger and
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